Motivation of modern footballers

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coaxingstar71 said:
I have to say I don't buy into the opinion that our players do not try. When I look at them as individual players, I think they should be doing a lot better but I think the problem is that they appear unable to play together as a team. This was highlighted in the game against Burton, individually, their players were no better than ours, but collectively, they played much better as a unit.

One thing I would say though on the general motivation of players is that I cannot understand the player who either moves to a different club or refuses to leave a club purely for monetary reasons and appears quite happy to play in the reserves or sit on the bench rather than move to a club where they are guaranteed first team football even if it's in a lower league.

As a fan, I'd have given my right arm to have played football for a living, even if it was £100 a week playing for some Scottish 3rd division side. I don't understand the like of Delph who went from being a big fish at Aston Villa to playing in City's reserves. He can't have thought for one minute he'd be straight into the first team and now he's likely lost his England place because of it. Our very own Jordan Slew being another example when he moved to Blackburn and ended up at Chesterfield via Stevenage.
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Your first point is spot on. Leicester have Mahrez & Vardy, but Bournemouth don't appear to have any stand-out players. They're both punching above their weight because they play effectively as a team. I don't see that in us, apart from recent Cup games under Clough. There just seems to be no collective spirit or trust.

What would the average person do if another employer offered to double (or triple) their salary? Does it really matter to Delph (and players like him) if he doesn't play every game? He's still doing the job he loves and is being lavishly rewarded for it. He might also end up with a few medals. England caps won't pay for his new camo-wrapped Bentley every year!
Young players seem to come with a ready-made entourage of agents and hangers-on these days, and I'm sure many of them truly believe they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Maybe Slew genuinely thought he would walk into Blackburn's first team every week?
 



Woodwardfan said:
The best managers and scouts know how to judge a player's ability and more importantly his character.

High wages are a complication these days but basically it's the same game, with the same competitions with the same number of winners and losers, heroes and villains. The same tossers always wasted their abilities and the same achievers always succeeded, regardless of the cash. We all know so many tosser amateurs who should have played at much higher levels but they hadn't got the drive or the application needed.

If United were top of the league there would be no mention of the players' wages. Just because we are 12th or whatever does not mean our players are not trying. Barnsley players are not trying any harder these past few weeks than they were at the beginning of the season when they were bottom of the league.

Every player has his own personal ambition and standards. Regardless of money, that has forever been the case. It's up to the manager to find the right characters.
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Winston Bogarde sat the benchmark for me ex Ajax , Barca , and signed for Chelsea on a 4 year , £10m contract.

The bloke spent years training with the youth team players , because he refused to go on loan for less money , so rotted at Chelsea . Became fat , round and not worth a pound when paid off with big bucks.

Ok , at the higher end of the spectrum , but on a smaller scale , it's happened , happening at the lane.

Personal ambition and standards are not always the main driver whatever level you play at . With a lot of players it's money . Yes the manager has to find the right characters who will run through a brick wall for him.

Some would for Clough , some wouldn't. Some would for Adkins , some wouldn't .

Call of duty my arse , when you have a 5 season mix of players.

UTB
 
Sean Thornton said:
Seven signings since Jan 2nd. That's not including Aidy White and if you take Khan and the lad from Halifax out that's still five, including Ashley Fletcher, who I would suggest is better than any of our youngsters. So things have changed, as well as the formation.
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Blooming 'eck Sean you got me doubting my Barnsley pal's knowledge of his own team! In fact he nor I didn't say nothing had changed but the changes started before the January window, the main one being the switch to two up front, "no rocket science" I think I said and as far as I know that is true.

Of the new players signed in January only a couple have featured more than briefly in the team to cover for those absent players I mentioned. Maybe those absent players will struggle to regain their places, who knows, who cares? Playing without White and Hammill recently has not stopped the momentum that's for sure.

Having looked at all the signings thanks to your prompt, I must say that there is a lot investment in the future as the accent is on youth. The two lads who have featured in the first team are quality and will enjoy their futures elsewhere but there are a few young recruits settling in to the club and Khan is one of them. He's only played for one whole minute as yet however.

Good to have you acting as a 'truth policeman' Sean, keep it up.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Blooming 'eck Sean you got me doubting my Barnsley pal's knowledge of his own team! In fact he nor I didn't say nothing had changed but the changes started before the January window, the main one being the switch to two up front, "no rocket science" I think I said and as far as I know that is true.

Of the new players signed in January only a couple have featured more than briefly in the team to cover for those absent players I mentioned. Maybe those absent players will struggle to regain their places, who knows, who cares? Playing without White and Hammill recently has not stopped the momentum that's for sure.

Having looked at all the signings thanks to your prompt, I must say that there is a lot investment in the future as the accent is on youth. The two lads who have featured in the first team are quality and will enjoy their futures elsewhere but there are a few young recruits settling in to the club and Khan is one of them. He's only played for one whole minute as yet however.

Good to have you acting as a 'truth policeman' Sean, keep it up.
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You said Barnsley players weren't trying any harder now than when they were near the bottom. (I thought that was your opinion rather than your mates) But there have been new signings (and if you check you will see I discounted two of them because of their youth) so maybe there's more impetus from them?

See you are back to "transition" though. That didn't work out too well last time for you did it?
 
Sean Thornton said:
You said Barnsley players weren't trying any harder now than when they were near the bottom. (I thought that was your opinion rather than your mates) But there have been new signings (and if you check you will see I discounted two of them because of their youth) so maybe there's more impetus from them?

See you are back to "transition" though. That didn't work out too well last time for you did it?
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Sean. the reference to trying harder was simply a comment that footballers in unsuccessful teams are not necessarily trying less than those in successful teams and I used Barnsley as an example that's all when I said they were probably trying just as hard before results improved, because my pal had said as much. For goodness sake, is that all you were harping on about?

Your reference to 'transition' concerns me a bit to be honest. It's a bit weird frankly.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Sean. the reference to trying harder was simply a comment that footballers in unsuccessful teams are not necessarily trying less than those in successful teams and I used Barnsley as an example that's all when I said they were probably trying just as hard before results improved, because my pal had said as much. For goodness sake, is that all you were harping on about?

Your reference to 'transition' concerns me a bit to be honest. It's a bit weird frankly.
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Semantics but your claim was they weren't trying any harder. No probably about it. When you were harping on about our players who weren't lazy sods not giving there all. For someone who feels the need to call threads that have a different viewpoint from yours "poor", maybe their should be more clarity in your posts.

What's weird about you returning to transition is that you must have forgotten your fantasy about what was happening with McCabe and the club when Weir was appointed. You droned on at length about what was happening, McCabes financial plans, in fact pretty much a business and footballing plan based on your reading of McCabes body language. You were mocked and spit your dummy out.

And of course all the time you were spouting this nonsense, McCabe was doing a deal with the Prince.

It's McCabesque waffle to give the impression you know the inner workings of the club.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Semantics but your claim was they weren't trying any harder. No probably about it. When you were harping on about our players who weren't lazy sods not giving there all. For someone who feels the need to call threads that have a different viewpoint from yours "poor", maybe their should be more clarity in your posts.

What's weird about you returning to transition is that you must have forgotten your fantasy about what was happening with McCabe and the club when Weir was appointed. You droned on at length about what was happening, McCabes financial plans, in fact pretty much a business and footballing plan based on your reading of McCabes body language. You were mocked and spit your dummy out.

And of course all the time you were spouting this nonsense, McCabe was doing a deal with the Prince.

It's McCabesque waffle to give the impression you know the inner workings of the club.
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Oh dear, oh dear. Move on. This thread is about the "Motivation of modern footballers".
 
Woodwardfan said:
Oh dear, oh dear. Move on. This thread is about the "Motivation of modern footballers".
Click to expand...


And there we have it, takes the thread in one direction, a few facts come out and it's move on, move on.

The thread title didn't stop your Ron Manager reminiscences of your glory days on the pitch did it?

"I was good, bit tasty, booked a lot, . strolled around majestically. Jumpers for goal posts"
 
Sean Thornton said:
And there we have it, takes the thread in one direction, a few facts come out and it's move on, move on.

The thread title didn't stop your Ron Manager reminiscences of your glory days on the pitch did it?

"I was good, bit tasty, booked a lot, . strolled around majestically. Jumpers for goal posts"
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Like I say, you worry me.
 
BerksBlade said:
Your first point is spot on. Leicester have Mahrez & Vardy, but Bournemouth don't appear to have any stand-out players. They're both punching above their weight because they play effectively as a team. I don't see that in us, apart from recent Cup games under Clough. There just seems to be no collective spirit or trust.

What would the average person do if another employer offered to double (or triple) their salary? Does it really matter to Delph (and players like him) if he doesn't play every game? He's still doing the job he loves and is being lavishly rewarded for it. He might also end up with a few medals. England caps won't pay for his new camo-wrapped Bentley every year!
Young players seem to come with a ready-made entourage of agents and hangers-on these days, and I'm sure many of them truly believe they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Maybe Slew genuinely thought he would walk into Blackburn's first team every week?
Click to expand...

Talking of Bournemouth, would love to know what Eddie Howe's secret of success is. He's been the outstanding manager in English football over the past two seasons. And he's gone up a level now in terms of being able to spend largish sums wisely (Callum Wilson, Benik Afobe) - Tokelo Rantie is the only big bucks signing he's made that comes to mind which hasn't come off.

Don't know if it's self-confidence, a charisma of sorts, a bond with players that makes them want to play for you, hyper-belief in players that makes them regularly over-perform (Charlie Daniels? Junior Stanislas?), knowng that players have full confidence in you? - whatever it is, he's the epitome of the over-achiever.

Bournemouth's is almost as great a story as Leicester's this season (whatever the financial crimes of the past).

And it shows that young players, whatever the influnce of agents, & the bloated egos, can perform in the right environment & with the right guidance,
 
Woodwardfan said:
Blooming 'eck Sean you got me doubting my Barnsley pal's knowledge of his own team! In fact he nor I didn't say nothing had changed but the changes started before the January window, the main one being the switch to two up front, "no rocket science" I think I said and as far as I know that is true.

Of the new players signed in January only a couple have featured more than briefly in the team to cover for those absent players I mentioned. Maybe those absent players will struggle to regain their places, who knows, who cares? Playing without White and Hammill recently has not stopped the momentum that's for sure.

Having looked at all the signings thanks to your prompt, I must say that there is a lot investment in the future as the accent is on youth. The two lads who have featured in the first team are quality and will enjoy their futures elsewhere but there are a few young recruits settling in to the club and Khan is one of them. He's only played for one whole minute as yet however.

Good to have you acting as a 'truth policeman' Sean, keep it up.
Click to expand...



This approach of young players started a while back for Barnsley and whilst it’s taken a bit of time, it’s starting to reap reward as these players mature. Mawson, Hourihane, White, Winnall, Isgrove, Chapman, Fletcher, Bree, Scowen, Brownhill, Khan, Smith, Davies, Williams, Cowgill, Templeton. All 25 or younger


Nyatanga and Hammil are very much the veterans of the team at 27 and 28 respectively.


They’re really building something there but had to endure some very poor football to produce what they’re now seeing and looked likely to go down not so long ago.

Not sure we could afford such patience but would love us to have a team filled with that sort of youth and potential. Hopefully, DCL, Reed, Adams, Whiteman, Kelly, K. Wallace etc. can be part of the senior squad next season with some real quality (mainly aged around 21-25) to come straight into the first team.
 
BerksBlade said:
What would the average person do if another employer offered to double (or triple) their salary? Does it really matter to Delph (and players like him) if he doesn't play every game? He's still doing the job he loves and is being lavishly rewarded for it. He might also end up with a few medals. England caps won't pay for his new camo-wrapped Bentley every year!
Young players seem to come with a ready-made entourage of agents and hangers-on these days, and I'm sure many of them truly believe they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Maybe Slew genuinely thought he would walk into Blackburn's first team every week?
Click to expand...

I think you've kinda answered it, in that obviously it doesn't matter to Delph to gain medals that he's barely deserved and perhaps he doesn't care about England caps and he'd rather have his camo-wrapped (whatever that is) Bentley, but if you ask me, players like that have forgotten what they started playing for, if it was me I'd just want to play in the first team all the time.

If Slew thought he'd walk into Blackburn's first team, then he's thicker than even the average footballer, so in that respect probably deserves what he's got.
 
BerksBlade said:
camo-wrapped Bentley
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This is what Mario Balotelli did to his rather plain Continental:
A8MBpMnCUAA414N.jpg
 



Talking about the 'motivation of modern footballers', I've just read that top footballers' salaries thirty years ago were 2.5 to the median normal wage and now they are 100x median. Someat's up.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Talking about the 'motivation of modern footballers', I've just read that top footballers' salaries thirty years ago were 2.5 to the median normal wage and now they are 100x median. Someat's up.
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It's called capitalism. Have a look at CEOs' ratios to mean wage thirty years ago and now.
 
BushBlade said:
It's called capitalism. Have a look at CEOs' ratios to mean wage thirty years ago and now.
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Er, isn't that socialism?

In terms of slogans:

Socialism for the rich. Capitalism for the poor.

or

Privatizing profits and socializing losses.

That sort of thing seems pretty accurate.
 
Maybe for some the motivation stops to a great extent when they get to the big money and their on field limits.

Collins certainly wasn't interested in a loan move for first team football when Clough first froze him out.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Agree. And much to my dismay Tony Blair continued it.
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How is bailing people out capitalism?

Isn't that, by definition, socialism?

https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2015/research/corporate-welfare-state/

Dr Farnsworth, using 2012-2013 as a snapshot year, estimates that subsidies, capital grants, tax benefits, insurance and advocacy as well as transport, energy and procurement subsidies to be worth around £93bn per year.

“A full debate about the ways in which corporate welfare is funded and delivered is long-overdue. Such a debate is hindered, however, by the fact that corporate welfare is, with very few exceptions, rarely acknowledged and discussed. This report and database seeks to reverse that.”

Or from the FT

The loose logic and hasty mathematics behind this £93bn corporate welfare number are a pity, because they mask what is still an important debate. While there is far too glib a distinction between the corporate sector and the rest of society, it is true that less scrutiny is applied to corporate reliefs than normal spending.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
How is bailing people out capitalism?

Isn't that, by definition, socialism?

https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2015/research/corporate-welfare-state/

Dr Farnsworth, using 2012-2013 as a snapshot year, estimates that subsidies, capital grants, tax benefits, insurance and advocacy as well as transport, energy and procurement subsidies to be worth around £93bn per year.

“A full debate about the ways in which corporate welfare is funded and delivered is long-overdue. Such a debate is hindered, however, by the fact that corporate welfare is, with very few exceptions, rarely acknowledged and discussed. This report and database seeks to reverse that.”

Or from the FT

The loose logic and hasty mathematics behind this £93bn corporate welfare number are a pity, because they mask what is still an important debate. While there is far too glib a distinction between the corporate sector and the rest of society, it is true that less scrutiny is applied to corporate reliefs than normal spending.
Click to expand...


Hey, I was just on about the gap between the the bosses and the workers and I'm sure about that.

I quoted 2.5 to the median for footballers evolving to 100:1. What is it for CEO's?
 
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