Monty's shooting

[Fiery Blade]

I didn't say I can find nothing to be concerned about, but he isn't payed as a striker or attacking midfielder. He's paid as a defensive midfielder.
You get players who an do most things but fall down with one part of their game all the time.
Take Paul Scholes, fantastic footballer, passes, shoots, makes goals but can't tackle for shit.
Thats life, not everyone can be good at everything.

I admit he can't shoot very well, but I don't feel the need to make a big fuss of it because thats not what he is in the team for.
I wouldn't want Bunn or Kenny to spend half an hour each day practicing throw in's, because thats not what they are asked to do during the game.

(an it's Sensiblade I thank you very much )

Thats why Sheffield United will never be anything other than a reasonable Championship team because we have players that can only carry out specific tasks.
Monty gives 100% every week but being realistic he can't shoot, can't pass, and round a player yet we seem to accept that he is the heart and soul of Sheffield United.
Monty is an average player with severe limitations - anyone who goes to the Lane expecting him to improve is either deluded or insane!
If our future does indeed lay in the Premier League I am afraid it will have to be without Monty - he simply is not good enough !

 

[Revolution]

Think he bobbled one in against Stoke in the promotion season

That's right. 31 December 2005. His last league goal.

Since then, 91 league games without scoring.

There's no easy way to check, but I wouldn't be surprised of every other midfielder in all 4 divisions has scored a goal more recently than 91 games ago.

I have commented on this topic before, so won't repeat myself, save to say that my views are similar to Paulus' (though he expresses them better). Monty has virtues but is completely one dimensional. It is no coincidence that midfielders we sign to play alongside him always disappoint. They have to carry all of the attacking and creative burden, and this is hard to do unless you are like Brown circa 2003.

The only way around this is 4-5-1 and all of the awfulness that this entails.

 

[Sensiblade]

Thats why Sheffield United will never be anything other than a reasonable Championship team because we have players that can only carry out specific tasks.
Monty gives 100% every week but being realistic he can't shoot, can't pass, and round a player yet we seem to accept that he is the heart and soul of Sheffield United.
Monty is an average player with severe limitations - anyone who goes to the Lane expecting him to improve is either deluded or insane!
If our future does indeed lay in the Premier League I am afraid it will have to be without Monty - he simply is not good enough !

Is this the same Monty that was one of our best players when in the premiership and got praised by opposition midfielders on a number of occassions?

Strange how when I actually watch him each match rather than instantly thinking he's done something wrong as soon as he gets the ball that I tend to see him do more than a 5 yard pass or see him roundng opposition players on quite a few occasions during matches.

People are blind to see what he can actualy do.

 

[Sensiblade]

Think he bobbled one in against Stoke in the promotion season

That's right. 31 December 2005. His last league goal.

Since then, 91 league games without scoring.

There's no easy way to check, but I wouldn't be surprised of every other midfielder in all 4 divisions has scored a goal more recently than 91 games ago.

I have commented on this topic before, so won't repeat myself, save to say that my views are similar to Paulus' (though he expresses them better). Monty has virtues but is completely one dimensional. It is no coincidence that midfielders we sign to play alongside him always disappoint. They have to carry all of the attacking and creative burden, and this is hard to do unless you are like Brown circa 2003.

The only way around this is 4-5-1 and all of the awfulness that this entails.

So now it's Monty's fault that we haven't got a decent attacking midfielder!
FFS

 

[Revolution]

So now it's Monty's fault that we haven't got a decent attacking midfielder!

No. I didn't say that. I'll say it again:

It is no coincidence that midfielders we sign to play alongside him always disappoint. They have to carry all of the attacking and creative burden, and this is hard to do unless you are like Brown circa 2003.

 

[Sensiblade]

So now it's Monty's fault that we haven't got a decent attacking midfielder!

No. I didn't say that. I'll say it again:

It is no coincidence that midfielders we sign to play alongside him always disappoint. They have to carry all of the attacking and creative burden, and this is hard to do unless you are like Brown circa 2003.

Just because our attacking midfielders are not upto scratch doen't in any way shape or form make anything Monty does as a defensive midfielder part of the reason.

Monty does his job as said defensive midfielder leaving the attacking midfielder to do theirs, if they can't then Monty isn't to blame, they are.

(next bit is sarcastic btw)
I suppose Monty was at fault in some way for both the goals we let in against WBA and for the fact Ward was ruled offside for his goal

 

[Revolution]

Monty does his job as said defensive midfielder leaving the attacking midfielder to do theirs, if they can't then Monty isn't to blame, they are.

The point is that the attacking midfielder may well be doing his job, but that's not enough, because he is having to attack for 2, because Monty isn't offering anything.

In other words, it is arguable that Howard or Quinn or whoever + Monty = less effective as a unit than 2 average centre midfielders who do a bit of everything.

The fundamental difference between the pro and anti Monty position is that if you are pro Monty, you are focussing more on what he does as an individual, whereas if you are anti Monty, you focus more on what effect that has on the midfield as a whole.

In 4-5-1 this problem goes away, but you can't play that with a target man who never scores.

 

[Robbie]

My main problem with Montys shooting is not Monty - it's the fans.

Monty shoots and misses - the crowd are on his back.

I'm not surprised the lad doesn't shoot with some of the vitriol that comes out should he make a mistake.

 

[Sensiblade]

The point is that the attacking midfielder may well be doing his job, but that's not enough, because he is having to attack for 2, because Monty isn't offering anything.

But Monty's job is to be a Defensive midfielder to enable the other central midfielder the oportunity of not haveing to think about defending and the freedom to attack.
His job is not to be a second attacking midfielder.

In other words, it is arguable that Howard or Quinn or whoever + Monty = less effective as a unit than 2 average centre midfielders who do a bit of everything.

2 do everything midfielders would just end up with them getting in each others way, as Howard & Quinn did on a number of occasions. Monty and Quinn know what they are supposed to be doing and this makes sure they don't get in each others way very much.

The fundamental difference between the pro and anti Monty position is that if you are pro Monty, you are focussing more on what he does as an individual, whereas if you are anti Monty, you focus more on what effect that has on the midfield as a whole.

I think it's more that the Anti Monty position is people refusing to see what he brings to the team, where as the Pro Monty position see that he has his limitations but know his Positives out weigh his negatives.

In 4-5-1 this problem goes away, but you can't play that with a target man who never scores.

That's got nothing to do with Monty, as far as I can tell

 

[kop_blade9]

When I saw this I thought someone had shot him, ho hum ......

nice one

 

[Fiery Blade]

Monty is what he is - a grafter, can break things up, a tryer and committed 100% blade - but he can't pass very well, he can't shoot very well, he can't put his foot on the ball and control play, he gives the ball away too much and he gives away needless fouls in dangerous areas. No more no less - Monty is not the fault we didn't go up last year but because of his shortcomings the others couldn't cover for him. If you want the luxury of Monty so he can break up play and give 100% you need a Gerrard or Lampard to counterbalance the midfield.

 

[cooperblade]

If you want the luxury of Monty so he can break up play and give 100% you need a Gerrard or Lampard to counterbalance the midfield.

Remind me, which one of the two did we have alongside him when we won promotion?

 

[cooperblade]

Of course there aren't many Essiens about but good teams get a far better balance to the midfield than we have had recently.

If we're talking about balance rather than individuals (which I still think your original post was) then we're a lot closer to agreeing.

I think it's important to say that it's the balance of the midfield 4 which is important, not just the central 2. I'd be quite happy with a strong, tall, athletic player with limited passing ability (Jagielka, Leigertwood) alongside Monty if we'd got very attacking wingers and a front two with pace and power.

 

[Deleted member 875]

Remind me, which one of the two did we have alongside him when we won promotion?

It was the Irish Lampard, Alan Quinn

 

[Revolution]

I think it's important to say that it's the balance of the midfield 4 which is important, not just the central 2. I'd be quite happy with a strong, tall, athletic player with limited passing ability (Jagielka, Leigertwood) alongside Monty if we'd got very attacking wingers and a front two with pace and power.

I'm sorry, but a Leigertwood-Monty central midfield pairing is like an enormous black hole into which sucks in passes from United players and releases them to the opposition.

I mean, it's so bad even Bryan Robson only tried it once.

 

[cooperblade]

I think it's important to say that it's the balance of the midfield 4 which is important, not just the central 2. I'd be quite happy with a strong, tall, athletic player with limited passing ability (Jagielka, Leigertwood) alongside Monty if we'd got very attacking wingers and a front two with pace and power.

I'm sorry, but a Leigertwood-Monty central midfield pairing is like an enormous black hole into which sucks in passes from United players and releases them to the opposition.

I mean, it's so bad even Bryan Robson only tried it once.

Against Colchester, he used Monty and Leigertwood together but we had Gillespie and Hendrie wide and Beattie and Sharp up front. It's harder to think of a less balanced front 6.

What would it have been like with, for example, Cotterill, (someone like) Reid, and Jamie Ward taking the place of the Gillespie, Hendrie and Sharp?

 

[Revolution]

Better, but that's despite the gruesome twosome, not because of them.

Did United ever win a game where those two were the two centre midfielders? I'm too lazy to check.

 

[Bladesman]

I think it's important to say that it's the balance of the midfield 4 which is important, not just the central 2. I'd be quite happy with a strong, tall, athletic player with limited passing ability (Jagielka, Leigertwood) alongside Monty if we'd got very attacking wingers and a front two with pace and power.

I'm sorry, but a Leigertwood-Monty central midfield pairing is like an enormous black hole into which sucks in passes from United players and releases them to the opposition.

I mean, it's so bad even Bryan Robson only tried it once.

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[cooperblade]

Better, but that's despite the gruesome twosome, not because of them.

Did United ever win a game where those two were the two centre midfielders? I'm too lazy to check.

Arsenal at home and Newcastle away

 

[Fiery Blade]

It doesn't matter how often you stray from the original thread Monty cannot shoot, has never been able to shoot and will never be able to shoot and unlike some idiot earlier in the thread going on about goalkeepers practicing throw ins believe it or believe it not goalkeepers never have to take throw ins Ive lost count over the years the number of times Monty has found hiself in an excellent scoring opportunity only for the ball to go into Row Z or hit the corner flag - outfield players do get an ocassional scoring chance!

 

[La_Blade]

I agree that Monty's shooting boots have been awol for a long time but as is said elsewhere, thats not really what he's in the team for, but it could be worse. I'd draw your attention to the Fulham chant to the tune of Thats Amore.
"When you're sat in row z, and the ball hits your head thats Zamora"

 

[Pinchy]

He's in the team to be an effective central midfielder. That task entails far more than chasing superior players all over the pitch for 90 minutes, making tackles then immediately surrendering possession and random passing to friend and foe alike.

I get very annoyed with the notion that Monty's critics don't actually watch him but rely upon preconceived prejudices. I've watched the whole of his career and I've seen more than enough thank you.

I really wish we could send Monty and Elpiton on loan to each of our successive opponents on a week by week basis and we could have their central midfielders, whoever they are, because we are routinely outplayed in midfield, home and away; week in, week out.

Does anyone think for one moment that we have received any offers for either of these mediocre battlers today?

 

[Sensiblade]

It doesn't matter how often you stray from the original thread Monty cannot shoot, has never been able to shoot and will never be able to shoot and unlike some idiot earlier in the thread going on about goalkeepers practicing throw ins believe it or believe it not goalkeepers never have to take throw ins Ive lost count over the years the number of times Monty has found hiself in an excellent scoring opportunity only for the ball to go into Row Z or hit the corner flag - outfield players do get an ocassional scoring chance!

Cheers for calling me an Idiot
Very very childish

It was an extreme exaple to prove that footballers don't have to be able to do everything well to be able to play in the positions they play.
Defensive midfield = defensive midfield not striker

Plus i've seen keepers take throw ins quite a few times in my years watching the Beautiful game

 

[Micalijo]

I'm sorry Pinchy but that is total nonsense.

We are not 'routinely' outplayed in midfield, we are always outplayed in midfield.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Cheers for calling me an Idiot
Very very childish

It was an extreme exaple to prove that footballers don't have to be able to do everything well to be able to play in the positions they play.
Defensive midfield = defensive midfield not striker

Plus i've seen keepers take throw ins quite a few times in my years watching the Beautiful game

Sorry I wasn't being personal just the notion of goalkeepers practicing throw ins just floated my boat so to speak!
My point was that as an outfield player the abilty to shoot must be part of the criteria

 

[cooperblade]

He's in the team to be an effective central midfielder.

He was very effective in the build up to the 2nd goal on Saturday, wasn't he?

 

[Sensiblade]

Sorry I wasn't being personal just the notion of goalkeepers practicing throw ins just floated my boat so to speak!
My point was that as an outfield player the abilty to shoot must be part of the criteria

I know.
But it 'floats my boat' as you put it when people have a go at a player who is doing his job very well - and fair enough i'd love Monty to be a goal scoring defensive midfielder, but he isn't - just really because they can't pick fault with the parts of his game they used to be able to have a go at.

as I mentioned earlier, Paul Scholes, he cannot, has never been able to and in my opinion will never be able to tackle very well, no matter how much training he puts in and I guess it's quite a lot.

Some players just don't have it in them and Monty ain't a goal scoring hero.
Just the one that helps the defense stop opposition ones