Money in vs Money out

[Rodley]

Ok so your point is basically that the club is in a healthier financial position. Ok, accept that and it is most likely very true.

*Disclaimer to all* - Figures used are guesses to illustrate a point (please do not melt your penis over them)


I'll go into a bit of detail:


15/16 season

If the 5 new players we got in were on £7k p/w average, £1.82m over a season.

Add on the Sharp fee and that's £2.32m.

Then you have to factor in the rest of the bloated squads wages - I'd say they were on an average of £4k p/w average x remaining 27 squad members = £5.61m

= £7.93m



We sold Murphy for £1.75m so take that off gets you £6.18m

We could have reinvested that on new players to bring total spend back up to £7.93m but we chose not to.




Now, this season:

12 new players with a wage of roughly £4k p/w = £2,496,000 + £870k in fees = £3,366,000

Remaining 11 players with an average wage of £4k p/w = £2,288,000

= £5,654,000


Sold Che + DCL for £2.8m so take that off gets you £2.85m

Could have reinvested that to take it back up to £5.65m but again chose not to.


Losses

15/16 - £7.93m to £6.18m after selling Murphy.

16/17 - £5.65m to £2.85m after selling DCL and Che.




£2.85m is a big jump down from £6.18m so when you say the club is in a healthier position you're bang right.

I'm saying we should have reinvested this season to take the £2.85 to the £5.65m as then we'd still be making less of a loss than the previous year, and that's not reinvesting the previous year and reinvesting this year. If we'd have reinvested the previous year as well, It'd be more than £2m less as you can see from the figures above.



All these figures are guesses so could all be totally wrong, but I'd say it's there or thereabouts.

I now welcome the many messages from those holding accounts data saying I'm talking a load of bollocks.

Part of me thinks: Could you imagine if you were doing something constructive with your time.

 

[alcoblade]

With all the great supporters we have on here, perhaps a donation of £10,000 each would help. Or would you rather just McCabe and Prince do it on your behalf so that we can slag them off if things don't turn out as you would have hoped?

With their monetary donations already, they are bigger blades than all of us.

"lights blue touch paper and walks away briskly"

Of course, they should be working out why we can only compete with those around us who operate on a fraction of the income.

The academy has again proved to be the vanity project that it is, raIsing our costs so high that we have to sell to be able to fund it, doing absolutely nothing more than pissing lots of people off in the process.

Shut the fucking thing.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

The point is that the surplus from the Che and DCL money will not be sufficiently reinvested in the team on new players.

You said I haven't factored in the Adkins pay off. I told you why it wasn't factored in on the basis of the context and the fact that it was a decision that didn't need to be taken. If McCabe spends a million on a new yacht, shall we factor that in too?

You also mentioned about paying players off. This is countered by the huge saving in wages overall we have made from last season.

I've no idea what your point is (tbh I couldn't be bothered to read your post), but that's top and bottom of it.

This doesn't make sense. Sacking managers is club business, and business that you've been right behind every time.

I hope those who love calling for a change in management every year understand that it comes at huge cost to the club, not (directly) the chairman.

UTB

 

[Barney]

This doesn't make sense. Sacking managers is club business, and business that you've been right behind every time.

UTB

It made sense to Daz (I think it was), the first time I explained it. I can't be bothered explaining it again.

I can see where you're coming from though.

 

[Lard_Lad]

I cant imagine that the money from Adams and DCL is upfront, probably got a combined £1mil for them upfront rest in extras over time

 

[alcoblade]

I cant imagine that the money from Adams and DCL is upfront, probably got a combined £1mil for them upfront rest in extras over time

Makes little difference in terms of balancing transfers, as it will be under the same staging as any signings we make.

UTB

 

[David Lee's first touch]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team

I wasn't Che poxy fee. DCL far too late in the window. Barney did you seriously believe that the majority of money in would go on player recruitment??

 

[sheffielder]

I cant imagine that the money from Adams and DCL is upfront, probably got a combined £1mil for them upfront rest in extras over time

To be fair, we can also use the same payment terms when purchasing players

 

[Barney]

I wasn't Che poxy fee. DCL far too late in the window. Barney did you seriously believe that the majority of money in would go on player recruitment??

Not really, but I had my hopes pinned on the fact that we may, just may break habit.

 

[Kev Gee]

The savings on wages since the summer will probably also run into 6 figures at least?

 

[Grappler]

I remember having a drink with grafikhaus one day, after a game, I think it was just after we had sacked Danny Wilson, and he said something like, "if we don't get promoted this year, we will be down here for a decade", and at the time, I thought "nah, we are too big for that"...........

I dread to think how much money we have wasted on managers, managers staff and players who were on big wages and not good enough!

 

[Worksop II]

"lights blue touch paper and walks away briskly"

Stay cool man, its just another McCabe damp Squib

 

[David Lee's first touch]

Not really, but I had my hopes pinned on the fact that we may, just may break habit.

I preferred the old Barney he would never have fell for the guff

 

[Silent Blade]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team.

Let's have a look at what we have spent in relation to what we have brought in:



Spendings

O'Connell - 250k
Lavery - 150k
Hussey - 20k
Clarke - 100k
Moore - 350k

£870k

I'd say that was roughly about right.



Brought in:

Adams - £1.75m (most widely reported figure) - 20% sell on clause to Ilkeston = £1.4m
DCL - £1.4m (most widely reported figure)

£2.8m

+ The savings made from the Brayford loan.

So, where's the £1.93m we have left going to go?

On current player wages until it runs out so that McCabe and the Prince don't have to put as much in?


If we'd have reinvested the Adams money already (plenty of time to have done so), and sold Calvert-Lewin earlier, that could well have gone on fees for a couple of top notch instrumental players to get us out of the league. Although since we chose not to reinvest the Adams money, there's nothing to suggest we would have done so with the DCL money either, given the time.


There's January, where it maybe will or will not be spent (answers on a postcard) but for a large chunk of the season at the very least, the results of which will probably decide promotion, it's looking like yet another case of player sales and inadequate reinvestment.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Nope. £1.4m was the most widely reported figure by far.


"Widely reported" - proof?

Anyhow, I was going off Foxy, who said it wasn't £500k.

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/calvert-lewin-to-man-utd.48928/page-4#post-1097465

And Lavery was £300k, so you got that wrong too.

 

[larkymasher]

Of course, they should be working out why we can only compete with those around us who operate on a fraction of the income.

The academy has again proved to be the vanity project that it is, raIsing our costs so high that we have to sell to be able to fund it, doing absolutely nothing more than pissing lots of people off in the process.

Shut the fucking thing.

UTB

The academy like every other clubs academy ( except Brentford) helps increase the clubs budget within the fair play rules.

If academies were such a strain on any clubs resources they would all shut the fuckers down. But they don't. You like many more have absolutely no idea what the academy costs to run and how much academy sponsors put into it, to help fund it.

 

[Champagneblade]

Something that seldom gets factored in - doesn't the Academy cost around 750k per annum to run?

Do you tag this into an increased playing Budget and suggest sales of DCL help pay for the continued existence of the Academy or is it expected that loaning out pitches etc is going to cover the running costs?

Season ticket prices are also very cheap. Does this need to be looked at if this was in some way linked to a better on the field product?

Just a couple of thoughts to mull over.

 

[larkymasher]

Something that seldom gets factored in - doesn't the Academy cost around 750k per annum to run?

Do you tag this into an increased playing Budget and suggest sales of DCL help pay for the continued existence of the Academy or is it expected that loaning out pitches etc is going to cover the running costs?

Season ticket prices are also very cheap. Does this need to be looked at if this was in some way linked to a better on the field product?

Just a couple of thoughts to mull over.

Renting out the pitches would put a very small dent into the academy coffers i would imagine.

My point is that unless we know what kind of value the sponsors of the academy make, it is very difficult to guess what cost the academy has directly to the club.

If academies were such a drain on clubs finances, then everyone would close them. The size of our club and the facilities it enjoys will be a factor in attracting players. Whether other clubs choose not to sell to us ( Mcfadzean, Webster) is another thing.

 

[alcoblade]

The academy like every other clubs academy ( except Brentford) helps increase the clubs budget within the fair play rules.

If academies were such a strain on any clubs resources they would all shut the fuckers down. But they don't. You like many more have absolutely no idea what the academy costs to run and how much academy sponsors put into it, to help fund it.

Aye, it doesn't cost anything. That's why all the lower division clubs have huge ones. Wibble.

There's certainly some clueless fuckers around, we can agree on that.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

In fairness to Barney his point (eventually) wasn't really about the actual values of the sales, but whether we should and could "go for it" by running at a bigger loss this season to (theoretically) stand a better chance of promotion. Reduce the risk of failure by spending more.

 

[larkymasher]

Aye, it doesn't cost anything. That's why all the lower division clubs have huge ones. Wibble.

There's certainly some clueless fuckers around, we can agree on that.

UTB

You are right there. Cluess fuck brains that talk shit regarding things they know fuck all about.

i agree 100%

 

[Esablade]

In fairness to Barney his point (eventually) wasn't really about the actual values of the sales, but whether we should and could "go for it" by running at a bigger loss this season to (theoretically) stand a better chance of promotion. Reduce the risk of failure by spending more.

..but in a spectacularly clueless way, that's what we've been doing over the last few years...well, right back to relegation from the Prem...

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team.

Let's have a look at what we have spent in relation to what we have brought in:



Spendings

O'Connell - 250k
Lavery - 150k
Hussey - 20k
Clarke - 100k
Moore - 350k

£870k

I'd say that was roughly about right.



Brought in:

Adams - £1.75m (most widely reported figure) - 20% sell on clause to Ilkeston = £1.4m
DCL - £1.4m (most widely reported figure)

£2.8m

+ The savings made from the Brayford loan.

So, where's the £1.93m we have left going to go?

McCabe


.

Would have saved a lot of typing

 

[blade too long]

going for it , financially holds no guarantees of working
the measured approach weve taken has just as much chance if we can get the spirit in the team
we went for it in season one and lost out twice 90 points wasnt enough and a 26 penalty shoot out or something like that

money for transfers never arrives within 5 working days
we will have money in the bank for January

 

[Esablade]

going for it , financially holds no guarantees of working
the measured approach weve taken has just as much chance if we can get the spirit in the team
we went for it in season one and lost out twice 90 points wasnt enough and a 26 penalty shoot out or something like that

money for transfers never arrives within 5 working days
we will have money in the bank for January

I don't think we 'went for it' in the 2010/11 season..we just just couldn't sell enough of the buggers as we'd have liked, because of their wages.
What sales we did manage to make, Ward, Henderson were to get a bit of money in to pay the years wage bill and get them off our wage bill!

Most of our signing's were the usual low fee/wage/free or loans...

Six years down the line we're still doing exactly the same...but in reduced circumstances...

 

[joshua thompson]

An

and also the fact we will have only received a % of the reported fees with large amounts of it dependent on appearance etc .... Glad you're not my accountant - bust in the first year!

Yes clearly I know that, but im not one to know if the board agreed upon fees to so many league appearances or goals for example. The board may have taken this as an upfront fee, which with the looks of things they have.

Either way, there are many other factors to take into consideration, and the constant sacking of managers every season is not a concern, as it will just add further to the costs, especially with adkins and clough.

 

[Champagneblade]

going for it , financially holds no guarantees of working
the measured approach weve taken has just as much chance if we can get the spirit in the team
we went for it in season one and lost out twice 90 points wasnt enough and a 26 penalty shoot out or something like that

money for transfers never arrives within 5 working days
we will have money in the bank for January

Problem we have is that McCabe picks a godawful manager and then 'goes for it'.

Sadly his conclusion when this fails is that 'going for it' is not the correct approach as opposed to realising that appointing shit managers is the no goer.

 

[BushBlade]

I don't think we 'went for it' in the 2010/11 season..we just just couldn't sell enough of the buggers as we'd have liked, because of their wages.
What sales we did manage to make, Ward, Henderson were to get a bit of money in to pay the years wage bill and get them off our wage bill!

Most of our signing's were the usual low fee/wage/free or loans...

Six years down the line we're still doing exactly the same...but in reduced circumstances...

A couple of extra million spent then would have probably saved the owners about £15m But that ship sailed long ago.

 

[Esablade]

A couple of extra million spent then would have probably saved the owners about £15m But that ship sailed long ago.

Exactly...on both counts...

 

[BushBlade]

Problem we have is that McCabe picks a godawful manager and then 'goes for it'.

Sadly his conclusion when this fails is that 'going for it' is not the correct approach as opposed to realising that appointing shit managers is the no goer.

Godawful? Clough? Adkins? They weren't great for us but have proven they're not Godawful. Backing a manager isn't allowing him to spend big in the JTW then sacking him because we lost in the playoffs. It's just stupidity. KM said 'think Liverpool' when he wanted to use the Liverpool model of building slowly to get the results Chelsea got under Mourinho.

Ask any professional manager in the game what's wrong with us and they'll tell you it's not down to the managers. We have no plan, no direction, no consistency in anything we do.