Managers, players, opinions

[grafikhaus]

Following all the talk about the 'treatment' K McD received last Saturday, some of it targetted his ability to 'go missing', get injured, not be available for important games. I wonder how much of that he'd have got away with under NC?

After the debacle of Weir, the tedium of Wilson (how he is showing his true ability at Barnsley's other club) and Blackwell (good games/win ratio but Christ was it boring) another facet of NC as a manager is his man-management/motivational abilities which has seen our season transformed. Others in that mould were Warnock - greatly divides opinion, but I'll never forget the 'Triple Assault' season & promotion to the PL - and Dave Bassett. How he turned a bunch of ragamuffins into a team that firmly established themselves as #1 in Sheffield and a useful top-flight side.

The first manager I saw was 'Gentleman' John Harris. Probably the Arsene Wenger of his day - cultured, stylish teams with absolutely nothing to show for it.

Another reason for the booing of McD was that he dared leave us for a team - at that time - with more visible prospects, better people around him and (probably) more money with win bonuses etc. taken into consideration. Who wouldn't? Yet when the Legends were introduced before Saturday's game Brian Deane (left us twice) and Keith Edwards (also left us) got rousing cheers. Hmm.

Finally, back to managers, Steve Bruce has always shown absolutely no loyalty to anyone and deserves all the flak. But what of Gary Speed? Regardless of sentimentality etc. he left us in the lurch to become Wales manager - which has never been a full-time job.

Opinions, opinions.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don't see the point of the hatred towards players who leave for clubs at a higher level or clubs that have a better immediate chance of playing at a higher level.

Fans are like romantic fools at times, expecting players to stay with them for their full career, despite being offered more money and higher level of football.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Following all the talk about the 'treatment' K McD received last Saturday, some of it targetted his ability to 'go missing', get injured, not be available for important games. I wonder how much of that he'd have got away with under NC?

After the debacle of Weir, the tedium of Wilson (how he is showing his true ability at Barnsley's other club) and Blackwell (good games/win ratio but Christ was it boring) another facet of NC as a manager is his man-management/motivational abilities which has seen our season transformed. Others in that mould were Warnock - greatly divides opinion, but I'll never forget the 'Triple Assault' season & promotion to the PL - and Dave Bassett. How he turned a bunch of ragamuffins into a team that firmly established themselves as #1 in Sheffield and a useful top-flight side.

The first manager I saw was 'Gentleman' John Harris. Probably the Arsene Wenger of his day - cultured, stylish teams with absolutely nothing to show for it.

Another reason for the booing of McD was that he dared leave us for a team - at that time - with more visible prospects, better people around him and (probably) more money with win bonuses etc. taken into consideration. Who wouldn't? Yet when the Legends were introduced before Saturday's game Brian Deane (left us twice) and Keith Edwards (also left us) got rousing cheers. Hmm.

Finally, back to managers, Steve Bruce has always shown absolutely no loyalty to anyone and deserves all the flak. But what of Gary Speed? Regardless of sentimentality etc. he left us in the lurch to become Wales manager - which has never been a full-time job.

Opinions, opinions.

It's down to the attitude of the person in question.

Deane and Edwards got cheered because their attitude one that makes us feel that they are 'one of us' .

Bruce and Speed never gave that impression and no-mark McDonald certainly didn't .

Like in life players/managers need to earn the respect of the fans.

I don't see every game but the one's I saw McDonald play in for us he was poor.
Those I know who go home and away at the time said I was unlucky and hadn't seen him at his best but you can only call what you see.

Saturday I could have done what McD did and hid in my own half and passed it side ways for 89 minutes.
Not changed my view at all; the bloke lacks SPUNK big time, he's got no heart at all.

 

[Grecian2000]

Deane and Edwards got cheered because their attitude one that makes us feel that they are 'one of us' .

No, they got cheered because it's years since they left and time has healed old wounds. Both these players (and many more) got absolute dogs abuse on their return after they'd signed for different clubs (add TC to the list, that was probably the most shameful behaviour I've ever witnessed from the crowd at BDTBL).

It seems the better the player, the more we miss them, the worse the abuse they take on returning. This, usually, backfires as they then try that little bit harder and score (I once got a crate of Boddies for my "letter of the week" in the Green 'Un pointing this out after Nathan Blake had done so).

All this "left us in the lurch" bollocks makes me laugh. Most of the players that move on are done so because it suits the club and the player. This club has never been one to turn down a fast buck and then make it look like the player forced our hand (see James Beattie/Paddy Kenny for prime examples).

As for managers? Don't really care one way or the other. I'd string Hoofy up by his thumbs but all the rest are strictly meh once they've fucked/been fucked off.

 

[Bergen Blade]

It's down to the attitude of the person in question.

Deane and Edwards got cheered because their attitude one that makes us feel that they are 'one of us' .

Bruce and Speed never gave that impression and no-mark McDonald certainly didn't .

Like in life players/managers need to earn the respect of the fans.

I don't see every game but the one's I saw McDonald play in for us he was poor.
Those I know who go home and away at the time said I was unlucky and hadn't seen him at his best but you can only call what you see.

Saturday I could have done what McD did and hid in my own half and passed it side ways for 89 minutes.
Not changed my view at all; the bloke lacks SPUNK big time, he's got no heart at all.

McDonald was the one who won them the ball and started the attacks for both Wolves' goals.

 

[boo radley]

I don't see the point of the hatred towards players who leave for clubs at a higher level or clubs that have a better immediate chance of playing at a higher level.

Fans are like romantic fools at times, expecting players to stay with them for their full career, despite being offered more money and higher level of football.

They are not like romantic fools, they would like to be but they are mostly realistic about situations and moan when they think things could have been handled better by the club or the player who is moving.
It is when players do things like kiss the badge one week then move the next that pisses most fans off.

 

[Woodwardfan]

The sad fact is that since Woodward's era every player of any ability has been sold to help "cash flow", whether they wanted to go or not, regardless of owner, board or manager.. Even before then we even tried to sell Jimmy Hagan to Wednesday fgs.

We have always been a selling club and of course our fans are bitter.

Bruce saw it clearly and got a better offer,why do otherwise?

The prince talks of the clubs history and he has to change ingrained habits and its DNA formed over a century or more!!

 

[Bergen Blade]

They are not like romantic fools, they would like to be but they are mostly realistic about situations and moan when they think things could have been handled better by the club or the player who is moving.
It is when players do things like kiss the badge one week then move the next that pisses most fans off.

Whatever players do when they score doesn't mean they will turn down offers of more money and higher level of football, it will be better for fans' mental health if they accepted that.

I just think it's a shame if fans will look at any former players (apart from those who stayed till they weren't good enough anymore) with hatred, rather than remembering the good times. When I think back to the 2002/03 season I don't think of Kenny, the bastard who left us for QPR, Brown the money grabber that went to Spurs, Tonge, who took the money from Stoke and ran, Jagielka the Judas who joined Everton, etc. I remember those times and players with fondness, it was a rare and special period. The fact that they all didn't see their careers out with us will not change that.

 

[raul]

McDonald was the one who won them the ball and started the attacks for both Wolves' goals.

Take your facts with you and go.

 

[boo radley]

Whatever players do when they score doesn't mean they will turn down offers of more money and higher level of football, it will be better for fans' mental health if they accepted that.

I just think it's a shame if fans will look at any former players (apart from those who stayed till they weren't good enough anymore) with hatred, rather than remembering the good times. When I think back to the 2002/03 season I don't think of Kenny, the bastard who left us for QPR, Brown the money grabber that went to Spurs, Tonge, who took the money from Stoke and ran, Jagielka the Judas who joined Everton, etc. I remember those times and players with fondness, it was a rare and special period. The fact that they all didn't see their careers out with us will not change that.

It is nice that YOU see it like that and I agree that it may be less painful that way. I look at all the situations differently and a little deeper if I can.
Football is so passionate for most that if they see a player leaving who they wanted to be at our club for a long time then they want someone to blame. It is most likely the players agent who cause most disruption in these circumstance but that said when you have a player playing who is due a big money move and then decides he will not give his all in the remaining games for you (Kilgallon) because he is afraid of getting injured, when we desperately needed him to and we end up losing games because of this then any good that he did for us in his time with us is soured by his lack of effort on his way out.
Can you imagine Monty not giving his all in that circumstance? his ability being irellevant to that situation.
Fans want heroes and although those days seem long gone there is nothing wrong with trying to influence a players decision to stay (Brayford) if he moved on in the summer not many will hold it against him because of the level we are at. BT moved because the club more or less told him he had to. Fans feel let down by players like Williamson and McD because they felt that the club had done loads to resurrect their careers.
It will be a refreshing day when a player comes out upon his move and tells the real story.
" I'd like to thank the fans for their support whilst I've been here Ive had a great time but I have to move on for my career prospects".

 

[Damski]

Why is this even a topic? 7 months ago, Blades fans were queuing up to wank over his goal against Notts County. He was irreplaceable. The lynch pin of the squad. Then he left, probably because Wolves had a way better chance of going up, they could pay him more or maybe it was better for his personal life. Maybe he doesn't like red and white stripes. I dunno. But he went, and now we all hate him. It's football, this is what we do.

 

[grafikhaus]

We have always been a selling club and of course our fans are bitter.
!

Only because we are near to the club and have long memories!

Every club sells players - often the best ones. Man. U (Tevez, Beckham, Ronaldo), Arsenal (Fabregas), Liverpool (Torres! Mascherano). Clubs like WBA explicably sold Long to Hull. etc. etc.

Apart from Chris Brunt, seven years ago, Wendy don't sell their best players as, unlike us, they cannot develop and nurture anybody of note.

 

[Lt. J Dangle]

The events from last Saturday (pre match razzmatazz, booing McDonald) got me thinking. Who was the last United player to spend his entire career with us? That is to make his first team debut with us and retire at the end of a full career, not cut short by injury (e.g. Whitehouse) My guess is Alan Hodgkinson but not sure.

 

[TonyAgana]

I don't think I've come across anybody who has a better grasp of the game than Bergen (genuinely) but I can't abide the sanitisation of football and the encouragement to accept certain facts about the psyche of footballers. Grasping on to the notion that SOME players are special, have a genuine connection with the fans / club and have an unwavering desire to win with the team, is what keeps football alive to me.

"Accepting" the majority's actions for the sake of our mental health almost feels like perpetuating the dulling of the game even further. Indeed, our "sanity" requires "sanitisation" but as "fans" aren't we supposed to be "fanatical"?

In specific terms regarding KMac, I think the abuse he received was more motivated by the fact that he wanted away 12 months previous and that he didn't care about doing any kind of medium-to-long-term job for us, rather shop-window himself from game-to-game, despite our investment we made in his career. Deane / Currie / Edwards etc. had all put in a long-term shift for us and "achieved" relative success along the way. I might be wrong, but didn't Deane actually get a good reception before and after the match and was only booed in possession?

 

[Silent Blade]

The events from last Saturday (pre match razzmatazz, booing McDonald) got me thinking. Who was the last United player to spend his entire career with us? That is to make his first team debut with us and retire at the end of a full career, not cut short by injury (e.g. Whitehouse) My guess is Alan Hodgkinson but not sure.

You are probably right

 

[Silent Blade]

I don't think I've come across anybody who has a better grasp of the game than Bergen (genuinely) but I can't abide the sanitisation of football and the encouragement to accept certain facts about the psyche of footballers. Grasping on to the notion that SOME players are special, have a genuine connection with the fans / club and have an unwavering desire to win with the team, is what keeps football alive to me.

"Accepting" the majority's actions for the sake of our mental health almost feels like perpetuating the dulling of the game even further. Indeed, our "sanity" requires "sanitisation" but as "fans" aren't we supposed to be "fanatical"?

In specific terms regarding KMac, I think the abuse he received was more motivated by the fact that he wanted away 12 months previous and that he didn't care about doing any kind of medium-to-long-term job for us, rather shop-window himself from game-to-game, despite our investment we made in his career. Deane / Currie / Edwards etc. had all put in a long-term shift for us and "achieved" relative success along the way. I might be wrong, but didn't Deane actually get a good reception before and after the match and was only booed in possession?

There were a lot of fans giving TC stick when he played for L**ds against us in the League Cup match in October 1978. He scored twice in their 4-1 win. Keith Edwards angered Blades fans when he celebrated his goal in our defeat at Hull in Sept 1981 causing a mini pitch invasion. Deane was booed whenever he touched the ball when we lost 2-1 at L**ds in Sept 1993

 

[Lt. J Dangle]

There were a lot of fans giving TC stick when he played for L**ds against us in the League Cup match in October 1978. He scored twice in their 4-1 win. Keith Edwards angered Blades fans when he celebrated his goal in our defeat at Hull in Sept 1981 causing a mini pitch invasion. Deane was booed whenever he touched the ball when we lost 2-1 at L**ds in Sept 1993

Edwards also got stick at Elland Road after his move there. The bloke next to me shouted, "Edwards, you've dropped your fucking wallet" at him throughout the entire match. Philliskirk popped in the only goal that day.

 

[Silent Blade]

Edwards also got stick at Elland Road after his move there. The bloke next to me shouted, "Edwards, you've dropped your fucking wallet" at him throughout the entire match. Philliskirk popped in the only goal that day.

Billy McEwan tried to make him stay with us but Edwards didnt want to play under him

 

[TonyAgana]

There were a lot of fans giving TC stick when he played for L**ds against us in the League Cup match in October 1978. He scored twice in their 4-1 win. Keith Edwards angered Blades fans when he celebrated his goal in our defeat at Hull in Sept 1981 causing a mini pitch invasion. Deane was booed whenever he touched the ball when we lost 2-1 at L**ds in Sept 1993

I'm sure they did, and that's part of it. We hate to see our ex players play against us but welcome them with open arms when they come back after a few well-placed kind words.

 

[Woodwardfan]

The events from last Saturday (pre match razzmatazz, booing McDonald) got me thinking. Who was the last United player to spend his entire career with us? That is to make his first team debut with us and retire at the end of a full career, not cut short by injury (e.g. Whitehouse) My guess is Alan Hodgkinson but not sure.

Woodward played on long after Hodgy. Both heroes as are Badger, Joe and Graham Shaw, Not many more top players stayed for their full career. Not in my lifetime anyway.

Personally I would never put TC in the same bracket as my own heroes nor any others who went on to other clubs. Having said that I gave Birchenall and Salmons big cheers last Saturday and Deano did at least return twice. So bless em all.

 

[Lt. J Dangle]

Woodward played on long after Hodgy. Both heroes as are Badger, Joe and Graham Shaw, Not many more top players stayed for their full career. Not in my lifetime anyway.

Personally I would never put TC in the same bracket as my own heroes nor any others who went on to other clubs. Having said that I gave Birchenall and Salmons big cheers last Saturday and Deano did at least return twice. So bless em all.

I didn't mention Woody because he didn't retire at SUFC and went on to play in the USA after leaving us.

 

[Pinchy]

No, they got cheered because it's years since they left and time has healed old wounds. Both these players (and many more) got absolute dogs abuse on their return after they'd signed for different clubs (add TC to the list, that was probably the most shameful behaviour I've ever witnessed from the crowd at BDTBL).

It seems the better the player, the more we miss them, the worse the abuse they take on returning. This, usually, backfires as they then try that little bit harder and score (I once got a crate of Boddies for my "letter of the week" in the Green 'Un pointing this out after Nathan Blake had done so).

All this "left us in the lurch" bollocks makes me laugh. Most of the players that move on are done so because it suits the club and the player. This club has never been one to turn down a fast buck and then make it look like the player forced our hand (see James Beattie/Paddy Kenny for prime examples).

As for managers? Don't really care one way or the other. I'd string Hoofy up by his thumbs but all the rest are strictly meh once they've fucked/been fucked off.

Thumbs?? Thumbs!!

You fucking softy!

 

[super_pig]

if someone came up to you at your current place of work and offered you much more for the same job.. how many would say no thanks??

 

[sitwell]

This sanitization (cheers TA) pisses me off ,I like to give abuse to players coming back , cant stand players who don't celebrate when they notch against their old club ,Football is about passion ,excitement and entertainment. I gave Macdonald a round of fucks even though I like him while others politely applauded.
Fuck prawn sandwiches ,hate shellfish anyway.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don't think I've come across anybody who has a better grasp of the game than Bergen (genuinely) but I can't abide the sanitisation of football and the encouragement to accept certain facts about the psyche of footballers. Grasping on to the notion that SOME players are special, have a genuine connection with the fans / club and have an unwavering desire to win with the team, is what keeps football alive to me.

"Accepting" the majority's actions for the sake of our mental health almost feels like perpetuating the dulling of the game even further. Indeed, our "sanity" requires "sanitisation" but as "fans" aren't we supposed to be "fanatical"?

We can still strive to become so good that staying put will be a good choice for our players. If we over time show that we're a club that give young players the chance to play and progress, we will appear more attractive for players who are genuinely interested in realising their potential.

Scougall is a good example. We've given him the chance, and he's been an immediate hit. To keep Scougall happy we will have to win promotion this or next season though. Not only that, we will have to do it with a team that is in a good position to progress even further. If we can do that, there would be mutual gain and player, club and fans should be happy. Of course fans will connect with him, we'll love him.

Since our Premiership relegation we've continued to slide and until Clough came in we've failed to show that we've been building anything. During this slide fans have clung on to some of the players that have contributed to our downfall while becoming very rich in the process. Is that the sort of player-fan connection that keeps football alive? For me it seems to be built on perceived loyalty and some graft, while ignoring the generous contracts they were given, their limited ability and the limited interest from other clubs.

 

[itsinyerblood]

We can still strive to become so good that staying put will be a good choice for our players. If we over time show that we're a club that give young players the chance to play and progress, we will appear more attractive for players who are genuinely interested in realising their potential.

Scougall is a good example. We've given him the chance, and he's been an immediate hit. To keep Scougall happy we will have to win promotion this or next season though. Not only that, we will have to do it with a team that is in a good position to progress even further. If we can do that, there would be mutual gain and player, club and fans should be happy. Of course fans will connect with him, we'll love him.

Since our Premiership relegation we've continued to slide and until Clough came in we've failed to show that we've been building anything. During this slide fans have clung on to some of the players that have contributed to our downfall while becoming very rich in the process. Is that the sort of player-fan connection that keeps football alive? For me it seems to be built on perceived loyalty and some graft, while ignoring the generous contracts they were given, their limited ability and the limited interest from other clubs.

Good observations Bergen Blade, as you say, so much depends on what the club wants. If it's just more of what we've come to expect, then we might have periods like this that flatter to deceive, or, if there's a genuine determination to actually push forward, give Clough some realistic resources, then we stand a chance of offering everyone, players and fans, something worth holding on to. I'm slightly dubious about the fan-player connection, but only in so far as players are no different to the rest of the human race, so if they're offered a substantial hike in salary by another club is there any doubt what their next move would be? So as we move forward, wage scales will need to be addressed, not recklessly, but with an eye on retaining those players our future should be built on.

Stating the obvious, there's a gap a mile wide between the top 5 or 6 teams in the Premiership and those in the middle rung, and then there are those who seek to hold onto their Prem status each season. If the words we've heard are more than hot air, then should we get to the Prem, investment will need to be far more substantial than we can currently imagine. And that's just to consolidate and remain there for a second season. You're right though Bergen, I sense that Clough's judgement of a player is far better than previous manager's we've had, and if he can bring in a similar quality of player along the lines of those we've seen since he was appointed manager, exciting times are ahead.

 

[Angef1Blade]

It's down to the attitude of the person in question.

Deane and Edwards got cheered because their attitude one that makes us feel that they are 'one of us' .

Bruce and Speed never gave that impression and no-mark McDonald certainly didn't .

Like in life players/managers need to earn the respect of the fans.

I don't see every game but the one's I saw McDonald play in for us he was poor.
Those I know who go home and away at the time said I was unlucky and hadn't seen him at his best but you can only call what you see.

Saturday I could have done what McD did and hid in my own half and passed it side ways for 89 minutes.
Not changed my view at all; the bloke lacks SPUNK big time, he's got no heart at all.

AND a very bad haircut

 

[metalblade]

Talking of managers I must admit I had my doubts when we appointed Clough but the turn around since he came here is just amazing. We now look like a team that has got a method and several back up plans if things are not going so well, we have a togetherness and discipline in the squad and a manager who is refreshingly honest when interviewed by the media, no bullshit from our Nigel. You would be hard put to pick faults with his work so far, I would go as far as to say he will be the best since the great John Harris.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

The events from last Saturday (pre match razzmatazz, booing McDonald) got me thinking. Who was the last United player to spend his entire career with us? That is to make his first team debut with us and retire at the end of a full career, not cut short by injury (e.g. Whitehouse) My guess is Alan Hodgkinson but not sure.

Monty must be the nearest - you could say he went to Oz to retire whilst playing footy for fun!