Lower league bargains

[robbiez666]

One of the most baffling elements of our current pathetic attempts in the recruitment market is that only a few years ago we were very good at picking players up for free or cheap and getting the most out of them. We have Paul Mitchell who made his name doing the same thng.

And yet, here we are seemingly focused on unrealistic loan deals for players who might not be any good at this level and are unlikely to want to find out.

But we seem unwilling or able to look around us or below us. I'll not even start on our European network.

We constantly moan about selling our young talent for next to nothing and yet there must be other clubs we could do the same to. In a time where many football clubs are struggling.

It makes zero sense to me. We've brought in a good signing but he's been on our radar for years. Where is the scouting? We have money and yet it seems we aren't willing or able to invest it.

 

[sufcboy95]

If we sign some players from league 1 or 2 in next week, people will be slagging the Prince off for having no ambition and being skint

 

[robbiez666]

If we sign some players from league 1 or 2 in next week, people will be slagging the Prince off for having no ambition and being skint

Whatever we do that will happen.

 

[Yogi]

One of the most baffling elements of our current pathetic attempts in the recruitment market is that only a few years ago we were very good at picking players up for free or cheap and getting the most out of them. We have Paul Mitchell who made his name doing the same thng.

And yet, here we are seemingly focused on unrealistic loan deals for players who might not be any good at this level and are unlikely to want to find out.

But we seem unwilling or able to look around us or below us. I'll not even start on our European network.

We constantly moan about selling our young talent for next to nothing and yet there must be other clubs we could do the same to. In a time where many football clubs are struggling.

It makes zero sense to me. We've brought in a good signing but he's been on our radar for years. Where is the scouting? We have money and yet it seems we aren't willing or able to invest it.

I expected to see a couple of up and coming lower league players brought in and maybe some fringe players surplus to requirements at prem level.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Hang on, part of the rhetoric and propaganda from the owner was that Wilder refused to consider all these amazing value players from the continent that the Prince and his chum were getting a tune out of on their computer game…:you know, the ones like Verrips.

So never mind the bargains in England, where are the bargains the great football mind that is Rip van Winkel has lined up?
Because if a 35 yr old midfielder from Qatar is their best efforts then we are proper fucked!

 

[Yogi]

Hang on, part of the rhetoric and propaganda from the owner was that Wilder refused to consider all these amazing value players from the continent that the Prince and his chum were getting a tune out of on their computer game…:you know, the ones like Verrips.

So never mind the bargains in England, where are the bargains the great football mind that is Rip van Winkel has lined up?
Because if a 35 yr old midfielder from Qatar is their best efforts then we are proper fucked!

I didn’t expect any foreign transfers this summer as the recruitment department hasn’t changed. But you’re right to hold the owner accountable to his comments he’s made.

 

[robbiez666]

Hang on, part of the rhetoric and propaganda from the owner was that Wilder refused to consider all these amazing value players from the continent that the Prince and his chum were getting a tune out of on their computer game…:you know, the ones like Verrips.

So never mind the bargains in England, where are the bargains the great football mind that is Rip van Winkel has lined up?
Because if a 35 yr old midfielder from Qatar is their best efforts then we are proper fucked!

I didn’t expect any foreign transfers this summer as the recruitment department hasn’t changed. But you’re right to hold the owner accountable to his comments he’s made.

I was hoping we might bring someone in from Europe through United World contacts, but nope. We're a football club with pretentions of playing in the best league in the world. That requires a mixed and thorough approach. I don't believe, at the moment, that we have the staff in place to facilitate this. There's been occasional talk about improving our European scouting but I've seen no evidence to suggest we've actually done anything. Paul Mitchell is lucky to be in a job tbqf given his terrible performance over the last couple of years.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

We're above our station, perhaps?

Also, we lost our most valuable assets in that regard - Wilder and Knill, they knew who to look for. Bettis, and a board of foreign owners and associates won't tell you who's worth nabbing from Scunthorpe, Walsall, or Grimsby.

 

[Yogi]

I was hoping we might bring someone in from Europe through United World contacts, but nope. We're a football club with pretentions of playing in the best league in the world. That requires a mixed and thorough approach. I don't believe, at the moment, that we have the staff in place to facilitate this. There's been occasional talk about improving our European scouting but I've seen no evidence to suggest we've actually done anything. Paul Mitchell is lucky to be in a job tbqf given his terrible performance over the last couple of years.

We need some leadership behind the scenes. The club was built in wilders image and Slav isn’t that kind of manager so there’s a vacuum atm. If we were going to bring in a manager like Slav the board should’ve bitten the bullet and brought in a DOF and taken the backlash from the fans on the chin.

 

[robbiez666]

We're above our station, perhaps?

Also, we lost our most valuable assets in that regard - Wilder and Knill, they knew who to look for. Bettis, and a board of foreign owners and associates won't tell you who's worth nabbing from Scunthorpe, Walsall, or Grimsby.

but we have had the same Head of Recruitment for the last 5 years.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Who's been stealing a living under the pretence of the hard work of CWAK

 

[A Storm of Blades]

One of the most baffling elements of our current pathetic attempts in the recruitment market is that only a few years ago we were very good at picking players up for free or cheap and getting the most out of them. We have Paul Mitchell who made his name doing the same thng.

And yet, here we are seemingly focused on unrealistic loan deals for players who might not be any good at this level and are unlikely to want to find out.

But we seem unwilling or able to look around us or below us. I'll not even start on our European network.

We constantly moan about selling our young talent for next to nothing and yet there must be other clubs we could do the same to. In a time where many football clubs are struggling.

It makes zero sense to me. We've brought in a good signing but he's been on our radar for years. Where is the scouting? We have money and yet it seems we aren't willing or able to invest it.

It was actually a pretty good strategy, try and mine the very best players from the league below or from (supposedly) inferior clubs in the same league, and hope some could make the step up. If they didn’t, at least they would retain some value for clubs, given the players were already proven to some degree at that level.

 

[robbiez666]

It was actually a pretty good strategy, try and mine the very best players from the league below or from (supposedly) inferior clubs in the same league, and hope some could make the step up. If they didn’t, at least they would retain some value for clubs, given the players were already proven to some degree at that level.

And much more likely to give you players that aren't good enough for your team but who another team is willing to pay decent money for.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

And much more likely to give you players that aren't good enough for your team but who another team is willing to pay decent money for.

It’s baffling that we aren’t doing that now. If we have a smaller budget, and time running out go fishing for the very best in League 1. We’re desperate.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

That ramshackle bunch across the city have managed to sign 14 players in this window,when most folk thought no player would go near the stinking place because "players dont get paid",oh and there best defender Iorfa has just committed to a new contract.

We on the other hand with our pockets stashed full of cash,have signed just a single player on loan,what the fuck is up with us as supposed progressive club,we are more regressive.

And the supporters will become aggressive if things dont change quickly.

 

[Geordie Blade]

I expected to see a couple of up and coming lower league players brought in and maybe some fringe players surplus to requirements at prem level.

Sounds like Ryan Leonard, Lee Evans, Dean Hammond and James Wilson

 

[Yogi]

Sounds like Ryan Leonard, Lee Evans, Dean Hammond and James Wilson

I was thinking more JOC, baldock and Moore. Coupled with the likes Lundstram albeit it was oxford who took him from Everton. There’s some good players knocking about but I’ll concede it’s a high variance strategy.

 

[sjl]

And much more likely to give you players that aren't good enough for your team but who another team is willing to pay decent money for.

Or a team of average players that punched above their weight for 18months until a few losses came along and they realised this. They were only ‘enhanced’ by poor signings at over inflated prices set by clubs that were laughing their tits off when we turned up. We regularly look at Wednesday and as they set the standards, be that comedy or failure but they may have just got this season right. Championship players (some of) make a huge difference. We signed championship players in the premier league…the rest is very much in history.

 

[Grizzly blade]

I was hoping we might bring someone in from Europe through United World contacts, but nope. We're a football club with pretentions of playing in the best league in the world. That requires a mixed and thorough approach. I don't believe, at the moment, that we have the staff in place to facilitate this. There's been occasional talk about improving our European scouting but I've seen no evidence to suggest we've actually done anything. Paul Mitchell is lucky to be in a job tbqf given his terrible performance over the last couple of years.

However when the battle lines were drawn and they silenced Wilder after his departure, they were very happy to trot out names of players they allegedly suggested to Wilder yet were allegedly discounted out of hand.
Wilder had made it clear that European scouting was non existent and our network in general was poor.

Yet here we are, no such bargains arrived and looking at loans from the big boys again, begging them to lend us their players and having absolutely no back up plan or alternative when they or the player inevitably tell us to do one!

I would argue foreign players require even greater due diligence and scouting given the extra difficulties they face in coming to a new country. And hoping we can land players in the manner of say Brentford do without actually investing the money to get it right is just soooo Sheff Utd and this current regime.

I’m dreading the next few weeks when the realities hit home for the fans presently in denial, it’s going to get very messy and all those years recently loving football again will seem a distant and unachievable memory.

 

[Delboyscap]

However when the battle lines were drawn and they silenced Wilder after his departure, they were very happy to trot out names of players they allegedly suggested to Wilder yet were allegedly discounted out of hand.
Wilder had made it clear that European scouting was non existent and our network in general was poor.

Yet here we are, no such bargains arrived and looking at loans from the big boys again, begging them to lend us their players and having absolutely no back up plan or alternative when they or the player inevitably tell us to do one!

I would argue foreign players require even greater due diligence and scouting given the extra difficulties they face in coming to a new country. And hoping we can land players in the manner of say Brentford do without actually investing the money to get it right is just soooo Sheff Utd and this current regime.

I’m dreading the next few weeks when the realities hit home for the fans presently in denial, it’s going to get very messy and all those years recently loving football again will seem a distant and unachievable memory.

Exactly, the next week or so is going to reveal a lot either way. Either what the Prince stated in his interview following Wilder's departure was based in reality or it was the sales spin of a used car salesman.......time will reveal all. From an outsider, things are looking very shambolic right now.

 

[bakeblade]

One of the most baffling elements of our current pathetic attempts in the recruitment market is that only a few years ago we were very good at picking players up for free or cheap and getting the most out of them. We have Paul Mitchell who made his name doing the same thng.

And yet, here we are seemingly focused on unrealistic loan deals for players who might not be any good at this level and are unlikely to want to find out.

But we seem unwilling or able to look around us or below us. I'll not even start on our European network.

We constantly moan about selling our young talent for next to nothing and yet there must be other clubs we could do the same to. In a time where many football clubs are struggling.

It makes zero sense to me. We've brought in a good signing but he's been on our radar for years. Where is the scouting? We have money and yet it seems we aren't willing or able to invest it.

Mowett and Matt Crooks from Rotherham were both available on frees.
Either would have been good additions

 

[bakeblade]

I was hoping we might bring someone in from Europe through United World contacts, but nope. We're a football club with pretentions of playing in the best league in the world. That requires a mixed and thorough approach. I don't believe, at the moment, that we have the staff in place to facilitate this. There's been occasional talk about improving our European scouting but I've seen no evidence to suggest we've actually done anything. Paul Mitchell is lucky to be in a job tbqf given his terrible performance over the last couple of years.

I can't believe Mitchell is still with us

 

[Badger Blade]

We need to decide, with what money we have, what we're going to do with it.

In my mind, there are two options - we spend some money on a proper scouting network and sign players nobody has heard of on the cheap who turn out to be good having done proper due diligence, Brentford-style or we spend the money on proven players who we know are going to deliver.

At the moment, we've spent copious sums on players who are unproven and haven't delivered. Perhaps that's why things are taking so long to get moving having made so many errors in the last two seasons but that's why we have a new manager in place. If Prince & co don't trust Slav to sign the right players, they either shouldn't have employed him or hired a director of football to do it.

The world doesn't stand still just to serve Sheffield United, you have to keep swimming upstream like everyone else or get washed away and we're clinging onto the branches for dear life at the moment.

 

[PurpleRain]

I was hoping we might bring someone in from Europe through United World contacts, but nope. We're a football club with pretentions of playing in the best league in the world. That requires a mixed and thorough approach. I don't believe, at the moment, that we have the staff in place to facilitate this. There's been occasional talk about improving our European scouting but I've seen no evidence to suggest we've actually done anything. Paul Mitchell is lucky to be in a job tbqf given his terrible performance over the last couple of years.

There was an article earlier this summer that the group has hired Cordonnier as group chief scout from Saint Etienne. He is supposed to be a big name in France in terms of recruitment. The only decent player we signed so far who has made a direct impact comeS from the French third division. I think that was already thanks to Cordonnier.

 

[HeySethUTB]

Our European scouting network is effectively a computer data analysis system, therefore identifying the players isn’t the problem, the infrastructure to support it though is very limited.

Grizzly blade is spot on about foreign players. An example would be firstly having the ability to fly people over to watch these players and compile reports before declaring any interest. It’s ok signing ex amount of foreign players that are very good, but if they have no to little grasp of the English language, Culture, Housing etc lots of support needs to be in place to simply safeguard the players that would be employees of the club. Sorting all of this stuff out takes a huge amount time, the caveat to all of the above though, is as fans even we were humble enough to recognise the difference between our standing (Champ/PL) and the infrastructure that supports it (Champ/L1) back in the promotion season, that’s 3/4 years. How on earth did the club not act robustly is beyond me. Painting a few stands, digital ad hords, flames, and fancy media are all show pony cheap tricks that mask the reality of the deeper workings of the club.

I‘m not defending the prince or wilder, however, the jibe at transfer targets and names given by wilder may have been correct. The oversight the prince made, as many made, is the quite simple, Brexit, our league status and financial clout doesnt allow us to dip our toe into the foreign market to the same extent as last year. The United World Model should in the future help us circumnavigate some of the work permit issues, but that’s in if infancy and I’m not sure we have the time. We need to be creative when expanding our pool of players, looking at players who qualify for British citizenship that aren’t necessarily international players would be a start, there’s plenty of them out there.

The overall picture is we have half tackled most jobs I.e. We signed a deal with SciSports to help identify talent, but don’t actually have enough staff or the infrastructure to be able to maxmise its benefits and relegation hasn’t helped. We have a plot of land for a new development, but we don’t have any idea of when we will be able to actually start building. We signed expensive player that had ”potential“, but haven’t seen an ounce of it. Do things half measure, get half the result.

 

[robbiez666]

Sounds like Ryan Leonard, Lee Evans, Dean Hammond and James Wilson

Leonard and Evans from back then verses Fleck and Norwood from now.

 

[Blacksea]

Leonard was the one that got alarm bells ringing for me,and was a foretaste of the future,transfer saga went on for what seemed ages,signed and discarded like a smoked box of cigs.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The truth re United is that we've had an internal war between the club and senior management since the Prince became sole owner. He wants a continental approach with more delegation, whereas CW et al wanted to be the power brokers who applied the agreed budget as they saw fit - taking advice that THEY thought valuable.
In the end a compromise was made in which a transfer committee played a big role in our signings after the Prince got sole ownership.

All members of the committee presented lists of players and votes were had.The observant would have seen this evidenced in the online fans forum when the Bogle signing and how it happened was brought up in some detail. Suffice to say, the signing was originally vetoed by the transfer committee but pushed through due to Wilder crucially persuading certain resistant committee members.
It's my understanding that the transfer committee is now dominated by the administrative side of the club, with the football staff under Wilder on the committee not being replaced by a similar number of football staff.
There is an erroneous perception that the Prince is a quasi dictator: he isn't, he believes in delegation and empowers these people.
Moving to any director of football or administrative dominated route on the sporting front, means that the staff you have need to be really good. We are going to get a good picture of their competence in the next week or so. The most interesting aspect for me is whether we are continuing with the same model (young players on low wages with resale value), but just applying it in a different way. The link to high cost loans would suggest not.

 

[Yogi]

The truth re United is that we've had an internal war between the club and senior management since the Prince became sole owner. He wants a continental approach with more delegation, whereas CW et al wanted to be the power brokers who applied the agreed budget as they saw fit - taking advice that THEY thought valuable.
In the end a compromise was made in which a transfer committee played a big role in our signings after the Prince got sole ownership. All members of the committee presented lists of players and votes were had.The observant would have seen this evidenced in the online fans forum when the Bogle signing and how it happened was brought up in some detail. Suffice to say, the signing was originally vetoed by the transfer committee but pushed through due to Wilder crucially persuading certain resistant committee members.
It's my understanding that the transfer committee is now dominated by the administrative side of the club, with the football staff under Wilder on the committee not being replaced by a similar number of football staff. There is an erroneous perception that the Prince is a quasi dictator: he isn't, he believes in delegation and empowers these people.
Moving to any director of football or administrative dominated route on the sporting front, means that the staff you have need to be really good. We are going to get a good picture of their competence in the next week or so. The most interesting aspect for me is whether we are continuing with the same model, but just applying it in a different way. The link to high cost loans would suggest not.

Seem a very succinct summation of the situation. Really it’s crying out for a DOF to provide football insight and counter balance the none footballing execs. Especially seeing as we have appointed a manager who has no interest in doing that himself.

 

[robbiez666]

The most interesting aspect for me is whether we are continuing with the same model (young players on low wages with resale value), but just applying it in a different way. The link to high cost loans would suggest not.

I like this approach but it relies on the young players playing at a much lower level. Paying the money we paid for Ramsdale, Berge, McBurnie, Brewster is fine if you're an established top half PL team but it doesn't work if you get relegated because you're faced with the possibility that if you don't go straight back up then they halve in value without doing it on the pitch.

I'd prefer the approach where we're picking up the most talented younger players from the lower league or smaller European leagues (which still qualify for a 'permit') by paying good fees for those players/leagues but not if they are good in the Championship or higher. They also need to be players who have experience of playing senior football. Not just youth football. We don't have the facilities, money, staff or network to be a club who can spend 3-4 years developing players.

The lad at Posh is an example but we've probably left it too late now. Done it at league 1. Has all the skills and talenet to do it at this level. If you pay £5 million for him then even if it doesn't work you're likely to at least get some returns from him and get a fair chunk of your money back.