Lee Croft

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Micalijo said:
If you want to put it like that do so. I'd prefer to call it another very humiliating episode in the recent history of my beloved club. Still cannot believe how much Croft has wound you all up.
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Why is it humiliating?

Someone made an allegation of racial abuse. The police investigated it and found that there wasn't sufficent evidence to take the case to Court. How is that humiliating?
 

Micalijo said:
Leave it out - he stood still with it at his feet when he could have rolled it to Croft or to Blackman. Croft went to get it off him quite rightly and then just as he got there he passed it to Blackman
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But Crofts job as a player is not to retreive the ball. If the referee has an issue with the Ballboy taking too long then he should take action. Alternatively, if Croft has an issue, he should make the complaint to the referee.

Shouting and bawling at a 16 year old ball boy does not speed things up. As he has now found.

Croft could actually be booked for leaving the field of play.
 
Give over.

If any single United fan or player does anything wrong, we are apparently all responsible in some way and should self-flagellate to appease... someone or other.

Apart from Mic. It wasn't his fault. It was ours.
 
Darren said:
No:
1. If the ball boy and anyone who was in a position to hear said he had used racist language he would have been charged.
2. If the ball boy said he definitely did not use racist language, he would not have been charged no matter what others said.
3. In the ball boy said he didn't hear what was said but other people nearby said he did use racist language, he would probably have been charged.
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Darren said:
Why is it humiliating?
Someone made an allegation of racial abuse. The police investigated it and found that there wasn't sufficent evidence to take the case to Court. How is that humiliating?
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Isn't that contradicting your previous answer?
You said that if the ball boy didn't hear anything but someone else made an allegation, he would probably have been charged.
Now you're saying there must not have been sufficient evidence.

I certainly don't think it's humiliating for United but if the ball boy knew he hadn't been racially abused, he could and should have knocked those accusations on the head straight away.
If he didn't know what was said (how could he not?) then it means someone (a Blade) has gone to the police with an exaggerated/fabricated statement about racial abuse.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
Isn't that contradicting your previous answer?
You said that if the ball boy didn't hear anything but someone else made an allegation, he would probably have been charged.
Now you're saying there must not have been sufficient evidence.
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I didn't say that if someone made an allegation he would probably be charged. Only if someone said he heard the alleged racist abuse. Making an allegation and saying one witnessed an incident are not the same thing. If I report to the police that my mate said you had whacked him over the head with a brick, I would be making an allegation against you but I wouldn't be claiming to have witnessed the whacking.
 
Linz said:
Give over.

If any single United fan or player does anything wrong, we are apparently all responsible in some way and should self-flagellate to appease... someone or other.

Apart from Mic. It wasn't his fault. It was ours.
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I think perspective is needed from both sides. People need to take responsibility for their actions.

Perhaps this case will be reopened in 23-30 years and everyone will be happy that SY Police are were to blame as they missed a full stop out of a statement
 
SwissBlade said:
I think perspective is needed from both sides. People need to take responsibility for their actions.
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Oh I'm all for equal-opportunities for calling people idiots. But to make out that all United fans are idiots, or that we have worse ones or more than other clubs, or that we're all responsible for the idiots and so are idiots by association is a bit daft.

Like Jones calling ALL Leeds fans "vermin".
 
Darren said:
I didn't say that if someone made an allegation he would probably be charged. Only if someone said he heard the alleged racist abuse. Making an allegation and saying one witnessed an incident are not the same thing. If I report to the police that my mate said you had whacked him over the head with a brick, I would be making an allegation against you but I wouldn't be claiming to have witnessed the whacking.
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Are you saying that the people who went to the police said "someone told me he gave racist abuse" rather than "I heard him give racist abuse"?
 
Its simple enough ,Croft says he didnt abuse the ball boy ,the ball boy didnt hear all what was said ,someone in the disabled enclosure THOUGHT they heard something racist ,it wouldnt be safe to prosecute therefore an apology is accepted and its all over ,whats the problem ?
 
sitwell said:
Its simple enough ,Croft says he didnt abuse the ball boy ,the ball boy didnt hear all what was said ,someone in the disabled enclosure THOUGHT they heard something racist ,it wouldnt be safe to prosecute therefore an apology is accepted and its all over ,whats the problem ?
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That seems pretty likely.
 
sitwell said:
Its simple enough ,Croft says he didnt abuse the ball boy ,the ball boy didnt hear all what was said ,someone in the disabled enclosure THOUGHT they heard something racist ,it wouldnt be safe to prosecute therefore an apology is accepted and its all over ,whats the problem ?
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Perhaps something along the lines of:

Police: What did you hear him say?
Accuser: He said "Give it, Black cnut"

Police: What did you say?
Croft: I said "Give it back cnut"

Case closed
 
sitwell said:
Its simple enough ,Croft says he didnt abuse the ball boy ,the ball boy didnt hear all what was said ,someone in the disabled enclosure THOUGHT they heard something racist ,it wouldnt be safe to prosecute therefore an apology is accepted and its all over ,whats the problem ?
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Darren said:
That seems pretty likely.
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I think that people need to be pretty certain what they've heard before they go to the police giving statements about "racist abuse".
I think it most likely that certain people have assumed the abuse was racist based purely on the lads reaction.
I think the police have interviewed those closest (ballboy, photographer, girl) and they've heard nothing of the sort.
 

super_pig said:
tsunami in a teacup going on here now.. it's over.. drop the bone.. dog
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I totally agree Super but there is to me a very serious issue here along the lines of some Blades making what I believe were completely unfounded allegations of racist abuse against a player who's team just happened to score a late equaliser and who just happened to upset people (not me apart from the goal) because they had a go at us and didn't roll over.

Darren's posts are way to clever for me but he seems to be suggesting it is perfectly OK to go around making these types of allegations when it is nearly impossible to believe they actually heard what Croft said.

We then have Foxy seeming to claim that they didn't necessarily make allegations of racism and after getting knickers completely in a twist are now saying words to affect of 'it was nothing, move on'.
 
Micalijo said:
I totally agree Super but there is to me a very serious issue here along the lines of some Blades making what I believe were completely unfounded allegations of racist abuse against a player who's team just happened to score a late equaliser and who just happened to upset people (not me apart from the goal) because they had a go at us and didn't roll over.

Darren's posts are way to clever for me but he seems to be suggesting it is perfectly OK to go around making these types of allegations when it is nearly impossible to believe they actually heard what Croft said.

We then have Foxy seeming to claim that they didn't necessarily make allegations of racism and after getting knickers completely in a twist are now saying words to affect of 'it was nothing, move on'.
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What Darren is saying is that if some individual supporters made allegations of racism that are not strong enough to stand up in Court, how is that humiliating for the club?
 
Darren said:
What Darren is saying is that if some individual supporters made allegations of racism that are not strong enough to stand up in Court, how is that humiliating for the club?
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As someone said earlier - surely you have to 100% hear it before making a formal complaint? Very humiliating for SUFC that we have supporters who made such a mountain of a molehill and who like kids tried to get Croft in trouble because Oldham scored late and kicked a few players. Do not blame Oldham, Croft and their fans for being very, very pissed off about all this - even if arguing with a 15 year old or whatever is a no no of course. SUFC acted very well for me, unlike the fans who made the pathetic allegations.
 
Micalijo said:
As someone said earlier - surely you have to 100% hear it before making a formal complaint? Very humiliating for SUFC that we have supporters who made such a mountain of a molehill and who like kids tried to get Croft in trouble because Oldham scored late and kicked a few players. Do not blame Oldham, Croft and their fans for being very, very pissed off about all this - even if arguing with a 15 year old or whatever is a no no of course. SUFC acted very well for me, unlike the fans who made the pathetic allegations.
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So let's say that Sheffield United have one or two fans who made a false allegations. Are you saying that having a couple of fans who are not 100% honest is "very humiliating" for SUFC? One or two fans out of of a crowd of 18,000ish.

Really?
 
Darren said:
So let's say that Sheffield United have one or two fans who made a false allegations. Are you saying that having a couple of fans who are not 100% honest is "very humiliating" for SUFC? One or two fans out of of a crowd of 18,000ish.

Really?
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That is correct yes.
 
SwissBlade said:
Do you include yourself in the not honest or the honest group? Just asking...
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Not with you at all Swiss? I certainly would only make a complaint/allegation about racism if I 100% heard what was said.
 
Bladesway said:
Fucking hell, mountain out of a molehill and we end up scrapping amongst ourselves on a messageboard. A new high I think.

If he did say something he shouldn't then the police and FA will have a piece of him. If he didn't he shouted at a kid, which is piss poor but hardly a hanging offence.
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Mountain out of a molehill it was then. A bit like their fans are making it now.

Like the Leeds fan that ran on and slapped Kirkland last week, you can't tar everyone with the same brush. Emotions probably ran a bit high, the blokes said something he shouldn't have to the kid and then apologised. If the kid is good with that then the rest should just be left to be tomorrows chip paper.

Mic, sort yourself out. SUFC should be ashamed by the fact that they did the right thing and involved the police who then sorted it out? Your not a closet scouser are you?
 

Bladesway said:
Mountain out of a molehill it was then. A bit like their fans are making it now.

Like the Leeds fan that ran on and slapped Kirkland last week, you can't tar everyone with the same brush. Emotions probably ran a bit high, the blokes said something he shouldn't have to the kid and then apologised. If the kid is good with that then the rest should just be left to be tomorrows chip paper.

Mic, sort yourself out. SUFC should be ashamed by the fact that they did the right thing and involved the police who then sorted it out? Your not a closet scouser are you?
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Don't be daft Way lad, I said in 142 above SUFC acted well - get yer facts right pal. It's the fans who made the allegations who have humiliated the club and the vast majority of us.
 
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