'League one/Championship players'

[DronnieBlade]

We hate it when pundits and other fans describe our players this way. Tonight Wilder did, and has done on at least one other occasion recently as well.

You could argue he's earned the right to do so. He is their manager, so has the closest understanding of their abilities and level.

I have to admit though, as much as I love Chris, this doesn't quite sit right with me. The players have surely earned the right to be called Premier League players. If we were getting relegated I could understand, but they've held their own pretty much all season.

He was spot on with his assessment of our performance. We were very poor. I certainly appreciate his honest, critical attitude, and push for quality. But I think calling them this was pushing it too far.

Maybe it was an attempt to get a response from them, but given that it was a somewhat emotional tirade, it seemed like he really meant it, rather than just mind games.

It is this specific comment that I have mentioned on another thread that will cause some angst and regret on his part.

Let his emotions get the better of him, which, however you dress it up, is unprofessional at this level.

Ask Kevin Keegan about that !!!

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[Flatulent_Bob]

It is this specific comment that I have mentioned on another thread that will cause some angst and regret on his part.

Let his emotions get the better of him, which, however you dress it up, is unprofessional at this level.

Ask Kevin Keegan about that !!!

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Angst and regret? Unprofessional?
Thanks for your input Doctor Phil.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Angst and regret? Unprofessional?
Thanks for your input Doctor Phil.

Truly constructive response .

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[BanderSerge]

Jeez, thought you had gone away.

Nah. The snidely is loving it.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Truly constructive response .

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As constructive as I could get given the nonsense you posted.
If you believe a man who talks and leads like Wilder wakes up with angst and regret after quite rightly highlighting when his team fail to meet his expectations then you’ve never been managed by someone of his personality. You’re either with him or you’re left behind and welcome to fuck off if the waters too hot for you.
Your unprofessional comment was also a joke.
No one was singled out, no individual was hung out to dry they were collectively and publicly told they weren’t good enough tonight.
He wants a reaction, he wants to upset and annoy them so they look at themselves and ask themsleves if they met the standards.
The only angst and regret should be from the players.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

There was a similar short version on motd. They were ' Right..... that's very frank and not the usual flannel you get ftom a prem manager. That's why is so popular'

 

[DronnieBlade]

As constructive as I could get given the nonsense you posted.
If you believe a man who talks and leads like Wilder, wakes up with angst and regret after quite rightly highlighting when his team fail to meet his expectations then you’ve never been managed by someone of his personality. You’re either with him or you’re left behind and welcome to fuck off if the waters too hot for you.
Your unprofessional comment was also a joke.

Can you also accept that modern man Management is all about extracting the maximum out of the resources you have ?

In a sports team sense, that essentially means getting your boys to run through brick walls for you.

Not at all sure if I am George Baldock et al that, having done that for almost 12 months continuously, I would be entirely enamoured with my managers negative PUBLIC comments. Not one jot in fact. Entirely de motivational. Behind closed doors the gaffer has TOTAL carte Blanche. It is different and if you would prefer to pretend otherwise, I’m guessing you have never been in such a situation.

VERY delicate balance. Out of character, and for the reasons I have previously given, the gaffer got it slightly wrong last night !!

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[BanderSerge]

You must’ve missed the point of my comment, I’ll try again. Don’t assume that Wilder is referring to Lundstram.

However, as you mention it, it’s funny how “Lundstram isn’t putting the effort in” hasn’t been mentioned before today.

I pointed out in the shoutbox earlier that Lundstram did more in the game than Fleck and the excuse was that Fleck is playing with an injury, completely ignoring that Lundstram was supposed to be out for the season with an injury. But I suppose is the scapegoat hat fits...

For what it’s worth, I’d be interested in seeing your list of players who did put the effort in today. I’m assuming it won’t take you long.

Egan, or should I say, Egans agent is the problem. Lunny can ask for what he wants, he knows that he won’t get it because he’s not a vital cog like Egan. He’ll probably end up at Burnley on a better wage, and good luck to him. He owes us nothing after 4 years service and £750,000 Outlay. Egan’s next contract is a life setter for him. Knows he can possibly get 2/3x if someone like Everton come calling. Luckily for us, he’s the easiest CB to replace. So he best hope his agent is as good a poker player as CW. The main problem arises if and when, we lose Basham and JoC? To find 2 CB’s who can defend, dribble and bomb up and down the flank like a pair olympians will not be easy.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Can you also accept that modern man Management is all about extracting the maximum out of the resources you have ?

In a sports team sense, that essentially means getting your boys to run through brick walls for you.

Not at all sure if I am George Baldock et al that, having done that for almost 12 months continuously, I would be entirely enamoured with my managers negative PUBLIC comments. Not one jot in fact. Entirely de motivational. Behind closed doors the gaffer has TOTAL carte Blanche. It is different and if you would prefer to pretend otherwise, I’m guessing you have never been in such a situation.

VERY delicate balance. Out of character, and for the reasons I have previously given, the gaffer got it slightly wrong last night !!

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You have no idea whether it’s the wrong action until you see the effects it has. Which funnily enough, isn’t the morning after the result. So rather than overreacting, maybe...wait till you see the results it has? Crazy suggestion I know.

We can however draw parallels to other instances where Wilder has very publicly laid into the players in a similar fashion. People seem to forget the “oh that was a bit harsh” reactions they came out with in response, because funnily enough it had exactly the response Wilder was hoping for.

 

[Snowflake]

You must’ve missed the point of my comment, I’ll try again. Don’t assume that Wilder is referring to Lundstram.

However, as you mention it, it’s funny how “Lundstram isn’t putting the effort in” hasn’t been mentioned before today.

I pointed out in the shoutbox earlier that Lundstram did more in the game than Fleck and the excuse was that Fleck is playing with an injury, completely ignoring that Lundstram was supposed to be out for the season with an injury. But I suppose is the scapegoat hat fits...

For what it’s worth, I’d be interested in seeing your list of players who did put the effort in today. I’m assuming it won’t take you long.

I think many put in effort, but it was not constructive and lacked any quality.
Poor play does not mean lack of effort (necessarily)

 

[Snowflake]

Chris Wilder is a great manager.
The players are Premiership players.
Brendan Rogers has watched our previous games and worked out we try to work the ball into the box before shooting and set up to counter it and it worked. We didn't get an effort on target. Wilder didn't have a plan to counter this he blames the players because he's never wrong. Ask yourself this; which players looked like 'they were playing as individuals'? None of them, they were playing their usual game.

Sometimes when we make mistakes we get angry with ourselves but blame others.
Last night we were outmanoeuvred and perhaps CW is angry that he failed to counter that ?

 

[DronnieBlade]

You have no idea whether it’s the wrong action until you see the effects it has. Which funnily enough, isn’t the morning after the result. So rather than overreacting, maybe...wait till you see the results it has? Crazy suggestion I know.

We can however draw parallels to other instances where Wilder has very publicly laid into the players in a similar fashion. People seem to forget the “oh that was a bit harsh” reactions they came out with in response, because funnily enough it had exactly the response Wilder was hoping for.

Then you might also need to consider the “grinding” effect that over doing this on a regular basis can have.

As I say, delicate balance. My main issue is with the public nature of the outburst. Nothing more.

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[Flatulent_Bob]

Can you also accept that modern man Management is all about extracting the maximum out of the resources you have ?

In a sports team sense, that essentially means getting your boys to run through brick walls for you.

Not at all sure if I am George Baldock et al that, having done that for almost 12 months continuously, I would be entirely enamoured with my managers negative PUBLIC comments. Not one jot in fact. Entirely de motivational. Behind closed doors the gaffer has TOTAL carte Blanche. It is different and if you would prefer to pretend otherwise, I’m guessing you have never been in such a situation.

VERY delicate balance. Out of character, and for the reasons I have previously given, the gaffer got it slightly wrong last night !!

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I think you over estimate our players mental fragility. Not every one is as sensitive to criticism as your fear in our squad, and if they are it’s not the right place for them.
Why on earth would Baldock have a problem with what he said?
If you think our players were sat at home feeling sorry for themselves last night then again I think you’ve misjudged the type of squad we’ve assembled. For the one or two who want away, I’m sure they’ll use it as an excuse, but it doesn’t make it anymore true.
Good leaders take the opportunities to unite the team to drive consistent high performance. CW won’t give a two penny fuck if they need to feel slightly hard done to if it gives them an extra drive in the next couple of games. He isn’t there to be popular, he’s there to be the man they want to impress and who’s praise they seek. It doesn’t work if you don’t state that you have high standards and you demand that they’re met and on occasion you need the team to feel the consequences of failure not always be protected from it.
Modern leadership isn’t about one thing, and it’s certainly not about having to publicly protect everyone’s fragile egos. It’s about knowing your team, and what motivates them. He knew what he was doing last night, and there was nothing unprofessional in it.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I think you over estimate our players mental fragility. Not every one is as sensitive to criticism as your fear in our squad, and if they are it’s not the right place for them.
Why on earth would Baldock have a problem with what he said?
If you think our players were sat at home feeling sorry for themselves last night then again I think you’ve misjudged the type of squad we’ve assembled. For the one or two who want away, I’m sure they’ll use it as an excuse, but it doesn’t make it anymore true.
Good leaders take the opportunities to unite the team to drive consistent high performance. CW won’t give a two penny fuck if they need to feel slightly hard done to if it gives them an extra drive in the next couple of games. He isn’t there to be popular, he’s there to be the man they want to impress and who’s praise they seek. It doesn’t work if you don’t state that you have high standards and you demand that they’re met and on occasion you need the team to feel the consequences of failure not always be protected from it.
Modern leadership isn’t about one thing, and it’s certainly not about having to publicly protect everyone’s fragile egos. It’s about knowing your team, and what motivates them. He knew what he was doing last night, and there was nothing unprofessional in it.

And i think you underestimate that the unique bond that Wilder has engendered in our squad, which for my money is a KEY aspect of our relative success can be lost in a heartbeat with a wrong word or action on the leaders part.

I also think that if your perception is that this is a calculated reaction to “gee” up the boys to do better in the last 2 games, this is also misguided. Pure emotion and venting exhibited last night.

Im NOT saying this happened. What I am saying is, why rock the boat ?

Our lads are not snowflakes. They can take it. Again the difference between public and private can not be over stated in this instance.

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[Flatulent_Bob]

And i think you underestimate that the unique bond that Wilder has engendered in our squad, which for my money is a KEY aspect of our relative success can be lost in a heartbeat with a wrong word or action on the leaders part.

That is fundamentally incorrect. The only way that situation can occur is if a leader demonstrated an attitude totally the opposite and at odds to a fundamental value or belief of his one of staff. That’s not being a bit miffed or feeling sore that you’ve been criticised unfairly,
it would have to be very personal, individual and specific so there was no element of doubt and be at total odds to a core belief of that person. Then that relationship is broken irreparably.
That is basic management psychology and again that didn’t happen last night and you’d really have to go some to upset multiple people with the same conversation as groups of people do not have the same core values.

We’re clearly not going to agree on this, and given my personal and professional experience of this you aren’t going to sway me. I’d suggest we move on.

 

[DronnieBlade]

That is fundamentally incorrect. The only way that situation can occur is if a leader demonstrated an attitude totally the opposite and at odds to a fundamental value or belief of his one of staff.
It would have to be very personal, individual and specific so there was no element of doubt and be at total odds to a core belief of that person. Then that relationship is broken irreparably.
That is basic management psychology and again that didn’t happen last night and you’d really have to go some to upset multiple people with the same conversation as groups of people do not have the same core values.
We’re clearly not going to agree on this, and given my personal and professional experience of this you aren’t going to sway me. I’d suggest we move on.

Two words. Player power .

Players, unbelievably, talk amongst themselves !!

Welcome to the 21st century !!!

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[Flatulent_Bob]

Two words. Player power .

Players, unbelievably, talk amongst themselves !!

Welcome to the 21st century !!!

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You’re talking in cliches without any point behind them. “Remember it’s always darkest just before the dawn”.
We’re 20 years into the 21st Century and the psychology of man management isn’t a new concept. The characters we’ve acquired and built in our side do not match your view of them, and personally I think you do them a great disservice.
Oh course players talk, but I bet very few of them are moaning about Wilder having a go at them last night on the TV. In fact I bet Billy, Norwood, JoC, Egan lead the discussions this morning re-enforcing what CW said and doubling down that it wasn’t an acceptable performance and that’s what true leadership gets you.
We shall see. If everyone hands in a transfer request and wants to leave over the summer I guess you’ll be right.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I don't think it's a good look for Wilder to be bringing Contracts into it, or to be calling them League 1 / Championship players.

It comes across as a bit arrogant & that he believes he's the elite one responsible for all of our success. Irregardless of whether you think this is the case, I don't think it's a great perception to give to your players.

 

[DronnieBlade]

You’re talking in cliches without any point behind them. “Remember it’s always darkest just before the dawn”.
We’re 20 years into the 21st Century and the psychology of man management isn’t a new concept. The characters we’ve acquired and built in our side do not match your view of them, and personally I think you do them a great disservice.
Oh course players talk, but I bet very few of them are moaning about Wilder having a go at them last night on the TV. In fact I bet Billy, Norwood, JoC, Egan lead the discussions this morning re-enforcing what CW said and doubling down that it wasn’t an acceptable performance and that’s what true leadership gets you.
We shall see. If everyone hands in a transfer request and wants to leave over the summer I guess you’ll be right.

Wow. Sledgehammer to crack a nut springs to mind !!

I guess none of us will ever know for sure, but I would not be at all surprised if Wilder has to do a bit of damping down the flame at the next get together !!

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[Bladesman]

I don't think it's a good look for Wilder to be bringing Contracts into it, or to be calling them League 1 / Championship players.

It comes across as a bit arrogant & that he believes he's the elite one responsible for all of our success. Irregardless of whether you think this is the case, I don't think it's a great perception to give to your players.

The contract thing has been getting under Wilder's skin for a while. When he was giving Fleck the hurry up regarding his contract earlier in the season he was clearly annoyed by it dragging on.

If Wilder thinks the players are taking too long to decide whether they want to stay or not then he gets annoyed by it and rightly so. He signed them, he backs them and he has helped them get to this point in their careers. He understands its agents causing the delay but I think it gets to a point where he needs to know so he can adjust his plans accordingly. We are now at the point because Wilder wants to plan for next season and he can't do that if he has one or two players dragging their feet over their new deals.

Also, some of these outbursts are not just directed at the player but at the agent as well.

 

[Charlieblade]

And i think you underestimate that the unique bond that Wilder has engendered in our squad, which for my money is a KEY aspect of our relative success can be lost in a heartbeat with a wrong word or action on the leaders part.

I also think that if your perception is that this is a calculated reaction to “gee” up the boys to do better in the last 2 games, this is also misguided. Pure emotion and venting exhibited last night.

Im NOT saying this happened. What I am saying is, why rock the boat ?

Our lads are not snowflakes. They can take it. Again the difference between public and private can not be over stated in this instance.

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The team that Wider built let him, and themselves down publicly. Nothing wrong with a collective bollocking in public. No individuals were shamed other than by their own interpretation of what Wilders said. They should all have their heads in their hands, over that,
collective, poor performance.
We have no idea what he said in the dressing room post match, so a public warning will have to suffice for now.
He will consider the impact in the morning. Hopefully they will all be hard at it in training before he arrives. That’s the kind of impact I would be looking for.
These lads are still well paid for doing a job they love.
What should Wider do next? Extra drills or a day off. Only he knows.

 

[mattbianco1]

We hate it when pundits and other fans describe our players this way. Tonight Wilder did, and has done on at least one other occasion recently as well.

You could argue he's earned the right to do so. He is their manager, so has the closest understanding of their abilities and level.

I have to admit though, as much as I love Chris, this doesn't quite sit right with me. The players have surely earned the right to be called Premier League players. If we were getting relegated I could understand, but they've held their own pretty much all season.

He was spot on with his assessment of our performance. We were very poor. I certainly appreciate his honest, critical attitude, and push for quality. But I think calling them this was pushing it too far.

Maybe it was an attempt to get a response from them, but given that it was a somewhat emotional tirade, it seemed like he really meant it, rather than just mind games.

Need to win both games now for a chance in Europe. That's a BIG ask.

I think he was just pissed off as he knows that. Arsenal will get 6pts from their final 2.

 

[Shoreham_Bhoys]

He felt he needed to lay in, he knows the group better than any of us in terms of how they need managing.

 

[blade too long]

Need to win both games now for a chance in Europe. That's a BIG ask.

I think he was just pissed off as he knows that. Arsenal will get 6pts from their final 2.

It's not a big ask to beat 2 teams looking at holiday brochures
Arsenal are never guaranteed 2 wins with that bunch . Still can't work out how they beat Liverpool . But for 2 clanger from Liverpool's normally solid defence arsenal created nothing

 

[Hagan's boot]

I'm very disappointed with the result yesterday, as I'm sure every supporter is. In the cold light of Fri. morning however, I think CW should not have berated the lads to the extent that he did, especially in the public forum. Time will tell if his comments have the desired effect, as they did in the case of Deano, I certainly hope so.
The saving grace is that CW knows his players better than anyone else, and in CW/AK I trust.