League 1 Attendances

[metalblade]

I can't prove it but I bet the theoretical drop of £5 wouldn't bring in another 5000 punters. It's something Strapon learned in his time at Wendy.

Too true mate cutting prices by half will never double the attendance.

 

[sheffielder]

Wouldn't you prefer to pay, say £250 instead of £400?

The evidence of half empty stadiums is there for all to see, yet people have problems with fans being charged less. It's almost a taboo subject.

This isn't a school project. our of the 12k season ticket holders, how many of them are concessions? I would imagine about 4/5k if not more.

Now if you want my season ticket to be £250 quid then concessions would go down by 40%. Add that to letting everyone in for a couple of quid I can't imagine is going to help our current situation. Add police bills etc to a 25k crowd and we would be lucky to break even.

A £300 season ticket on the Kop is £13 a game, Southstand is £16. You couldn't go lower than this on match day price.

This is a business and finally we are getting round to running it as one (to what cost I don't know). There isn't an entitlement for people to make it cheap for you to football, you have to make a sacrifice to go week in week out, whether that be financial, personal or both.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I think the club could look into discounted multi-year season tickets. Say £50 off each season if you buy two upfront. Though this could lead to some cash flow problems for the club if the money wasn't allocated wisely....

 

[stannyblade]

It's also the peripherals one pays to go to the match
On Tuesday, Ticket£18-00, Petrol £35-00, Pie & Beer in ground £5-50, Parking £7-00,
Curry/Drink After Match £ 20-00 - Total Cost £ 85-50 Not a cheap night out!

True if thats what your football consists of.

For me it would only total about £20 - £25 all in as very rarely eat inside ground. oh and none of that foreign muck for me.

 

[raul]

As a non STH (akaNRS) it would be nice if walk up tickets were say a fiver less, but it wouldn't incentivise me to go to more games because of it. I'll probably do half the games @ £20. So if they dropped price to £10 I'd have to do everygame for them to see the same money, which wouldn't happen because of the other costs associated with going to games/other commitments/going on the piss in Leith with other forum members.

It costs what it costs, you make a value judgement on whether you want to pay it.

 

[Kenilworth]

It's also the peripherals one pays to go to the match
On Tuesday, Ticket£18-00, Petrol £35-00, Pie & Beer in ground £5-50, Parking £7-00,
Curry/Drink After Match £ 20-00 - Total Cost £ 85-50 Not a cheap night out!

Bloody Hell Fiery Blade not to mention the pounds that you put on for having a pie at the match and a curry afterwards. Show some restraint feller.

 

[Bradford Blade]

It's not just the price of the ticket it's all the travel costs that add up to a mountain when you don't live in Sheffield as well as the time wasted on the journey - all for an inferior product...

Yep, being in Bradford it's the same boat for us - but one point not mentioned here is one that I think alcoblade brought up on another thread: for me (and him ) football is a 'lifestyle', a social event, something more than just the 90mins on the pitch. This is pretty much just as important to me as the game itself.

I enjoy coming down to Sheff, swallowing a few brews, confabbing with fellow Baldes and then getting in the game, letting off some steam and then perhaps a few more brews and a bite to eat, then on back home again. Usually, even if the game was dire, I still enjoy the 'day out'.

Anyway, broadly speaking, I'd hazard a guess that those who are still attending - given the financial straits that obviously are affecting a great many of us today - are those of a similar vein who simply live the football life?

UTB!

 

[Kenilworth]

football is a 'lifestyle', a social event, something more than just the 90mins on the pitch. This is pretty much just as important to me as the game itself.

I enjoy coming down to Sheff, swallowing a few brews, confabbing with fellow Baldes and then getting in the game, letting off some steam and then perhaps a few more brews and a bite to eat, then on back home again. Usually, even if the game was dire, I still enjoy the 'day out'.

I agree - and that just adds more to the cost - which has to compete with so many other things these days.

Me and Ken Jnr analysed the payback over a whole season (at least one) and concluded that the best bits where the beer and Pho 68

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Yep, being in Bradford it's the same boat for us - but one point not mentioned here is one that I think alcoblade brought up on another thread: for me (and him ) football is a 'lifestyle', a social event, something more than just the 90mins on the pitch. This is pretty much just as important to me as the game itself.

I enjoy coming down to Sheff, swallowing a few brews, confabbing with fellow Baldes and then getting in the game, letting off some steam and then perhaps a few more brews and a bite to eat, then on back home again. Usually, even if the game was dire, I still enjoy the 'day out'.

Anyway, broadly speaking, I'd hazard a guess that those who are still attending - given the financial straits that obviously are affecting a great many of us today - are those of a similar vein who simply live the football life?

UTB!

If supported United consisting of watching the game and going home, i would have lost interest years ago. For the most part the football interrupts a perfectly good drinking session

 

[Bradford Blade]

I agree - and that just adds more to the cost - which has to compete with so many other things these days...

Too true mate - which kinda answers why I don't really have much else. I suppose not having the best of health has it's benefits (well, trying to look on the bright side at least) as I tend to have to rest up alot, and so try to reserve my energy for every-other Sat. Not going out much means I save a few quid, allowing me and the kids t0 enjoy the day out in Sheff.

Priorities I s'pose?

UTB!

 

[Bladesman]

If supported United consisting of watching the game and going home, i would have lost interest years ago. For the most part the football interrupts a perfectly good drinking session

I don't drink when going to the football and watched the football under the likes of Warnock and Blackwell sober.

More about the football than anything else for me anyway and throw alcohol into the mix it would just make more annoyed when we lost than I normally would be.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I don't drink when going to the football and watched the football under the likes of Warnock and Blackwell sober.

More about the football than anything else for me anyway and throw alcohol into the mix it would just make more annoyed when we lost than I normally would be.

I should have probably said "drinking session with mates".

 

[cahill]

.... and safe STANDING areas

There is a safe standing area it's at the back of the kop, I stand there every home match. Make it too safe and you take away the essence of the experience. It's a retro experience to some extent. Football is too safe too sanitised and too organised. Disinterested stewards every 5 yards, mascot on the pitch, get thrown out for being too exhuberant, some moron whipping the crowd up with inane babble before the match, stupid music to tell you when to celebrate a goal. I agree with that well known author Ronne Sharpe in his brilliant tome about football today. Refers to his bunch of outcasts as the "Ceefax Blades", watching events develop during the match through Ceefax. The games left us old boys behind I'm afraid but while ever I can stand at matches I'll do so.
Tell you something else an all, the language is nowhere near as bad as the posh seats to our left

 

[Zinedine]

Ticket prices have a huge impact beyond what many think. Take the kids who have just got their GCSE results through; they will struggle to find a part time/full time job so the ticket can be £5 and they probably will opt for something different. Leeds are charging £40 for a match ticket, that's over a days work for a 16-20 year old who probably works one or two shifts per week. Prices coupled with stories of excess from footballers like Mario Balotelli (I agree players like these reflect a tiny amount of footballers, but they're the ones in the news) and a disenfranchised fan base it's easy to see why people simply won't bother.

Me? I love it so will spend every penny I can on a match ticket!

 

[Ollessendro]

A few on here need some basic economics tuition. Luckily Ollessendro is here to tell you the basics.

Price elasticity of demand = % change in quantity demanded/% change in price. It basically gives you how responsive demand is to a change in price.

You get two types of elasticity: 1) elastic (value more than one) where the % change in demand is higher than price and 2) inelastic (value less than 1) where the % change in demand is lower than the % change in price. Generally speaking luxury goods tend to be elastic and necessities inelastic.

For elastic goods, demand is reponsive to changes in price. So for example, if you drop the price of a car a grand, then perhaps more than a 1000 people will buy it. Dropping the price of beer or cigarettes is unlikely to lead to more people buying them.

Demand for football tickets are highly inelastic. This means it is not really worth dropping ticket prices, as it is highly unlikely to lead to a larger increase in demand. So for example if we dropped our ticket prices by £5 for the next home game, then I doubt the attendence would go up by more than 3k (needed to make more revenue). So as well as pissing off loyal season ticket holders, the economics of making tickets cheaper does simply not stack up.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Dropping the price of beer or cigarettes is unlikely to lead to more people buying them.

Don't want to nitpick, but dropping the price of beer certainly makes people drink more of it. Why else would you have happy hours?

 

[Ollessendro]

Don't want to nitpick, but dropping the price of beer certainly makes people drink more of it. Why else would you have happy hours?

in one bar for an hour or two maybe, but not the beer consumed over the whole evening or . Happy hours (and other offers of that ilk) are about getting people in a place where people would not normally drink at a time when they would not normally drink.

 

[Foxy]

I think the club could look into discounted multi-year season tickets. Say £50 off each season if you buy two upfront. Though this could lead to some cash flow problems for the club if the money wasn't allocated wisely....

I suggested this to a previous employee in charge of season ticket schemes...

Whilst we have done it in the past, the main problems are the budgeting per season and also the timimgs of when a football club needs an injection of season ticket money.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I suggested this to a previous employee in charge of season ticket schemes...

Whilst we have done it in the past, the main problems are the budgeting per season and also the timimgs of when a football club needs an injection of season ticket money.

Well that goes back to sensibly handling the budget doesn't it? If you piss it up the wall in the first season then you've only got yourself to blame

 

[Highbury_Blade]

in one bar for an hour or two maybe, but not the beer consumed over the whole evening or . Happy hours (and other offers of that ilk) are about getting people in a place where people would not normally drink at a time when they would not normally drink.

I take your point, but i think you've chosen the wrong product to demonstrate it.

Pubs are closing across the land precisely because people are responding to changes in price, albeit it price increases not decreases.

 

[S64 Blade]

I was on about ticket prices the other day with someone at work. I don't think a game should be more than £20 below the the Premiership, anything over £15 in League One is bad (unless its United - Wednesday type game, then I can accept it more). Obviously this is just my opinion with no economics attached.

Price Elasticity of Demand is all well and good, but occassionally you have to bite the bullet and accept less profits in order to gain more in the long-run. So in football, for example, ridiculously cheap kids tickets will pay off in the long-run as a lot will continue into adulthood. This is where much of the problem lies with football, in that it's not sustainable in the long term.

The sad reality is that football is becoming more of a sport for TV only. Sky have bigged up the Premier League so much and at such regular intervals that it puts a lot of kids off going to watch their local teams. If you watch Soccer Saturday, for example, they rarely mention anything below the Premiership and it's the same with the BBC. I know a lot of kids of the past grew up supporting Man Utd, Liverpool and the like, but I'm sure many (maybe even people on here), grew out of that and started going to watch their local sides as they got older. This won't be happening as much now.

Whilst on the subject, there's a new fanzine due out tomorrow/next week, called Stand Against Modern Football, their Facebook page is here for thos interested. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stand-AMF/137849039687320 It should be interesting!

 

[Ollessendro]

I take your point, but i think you've chosen the wrong product to demonstrate it.

Pubs are closing across the land precisely because people are responding to changes in price, albeit it price increases not decreases.

It couldbe argued that people have just chose to drink at home and the same amount of beer is being drunk. Plus, I would argue that changes in society, the smoking ban and the recession have hit pubs jus a hard (if not harder) as (than) the price of beerincreasing.

 

[StarBlade]

First of all, I've always said I'm no accountant and I'm honest about that. I don't think halving something, doubles something somewhere else. I know it's not that simple, but people on here who've got money to buy season tickets are ignoring something obvious, they are ignoring those who no longer go and the reasons why they no longer go. We actually have fans rejecting the notion of lower ticket prices for fans, is this working-class Sheffield?

Secondly, regarding the fact that it doesn't make economic sense to lower prices. What makes economic sense? Assuming we lost £12M last season(KM's estimate) with ticket prices as they are; we had 430140 fans through the gates last season. That means to break even, we'd have to raise tickets by an additional £28 and hope those 430140 still fans turn up. So, the economics never made sense; unless we're now willing to start paying £50+ for a ticket? What about a £1000 season ticket? If not, why not? Too expensive?

And finally, what do you get for your money? Yes there's the entertainment aspect, but what quality comes with that? League 1 football. Division 3. 40+ teams higher than us, 40+ teams to provide better competition, 800+ better players better than ours and we think that prices shouldn't be lower? We actually have fans of a working-class club arguing against lowering the high prices? It's just too bizarre to protest about.

Anyway, if you earn a fair few quid and can afford the prices, then great. If a blade is too poor to come to a game, tough!

 

[metalblade]

 

[Linz]

My ST is saved up for monthly (£37.50) so I know that when March/April rolls around, the money is there to pay for it. What I'm having to do this year is pick and choose my away matches and the main reason is the experience v. value for money trade-off.

Do I think a ticket for Hartlepool on a Tuesday night is worth the best part of £20... and beer and food on top? Nope, I don't think so.

Would tagging a pre-Christmas weekend in Brighton on to the Crawley match be worth saving up for? Probably yes.

United being rubbish is a given, so I'm left looking at the day around it to make up my mind as to whether I can justify going.

 

[Balham]

Ollessendro good description of elasticity of demand. Cigarettes are a great example of an inelastic product: putting the price up does not lead to a drop in demand. Petrol, milk and bread are other classic examples.

Chocolate is a good example of an elastic product: more people will buy it if it's cheaper.

 

[Ollessendro]

Secondly, regarding the fact that it doesn't make economic sense to lower prices. What makes economic sense? Assuming we lost £12M last season(KM's estimate) with ticket prices as they are; we had 430140 fans through the gates last season. That means to break even, we'd have to raise tickets by an additional £28 and hope those 430140 still fans turn up. So, the economics never made sense; unless we're now willing to start paying £50+ for a ticket? What about a £1000 season ticket? If not, why not? Too expensive?

It probably makes economic sense to keep them as they are, possibly even increase them. The club receives income from other streams, which makes your maths redundant. The point is that if we decreased tickets to £10 (a fair price for third tier I am sure you will agree). Not only will you piss season ticket holders off, but your revenue will fall. The increased number of tickets sold, will not lead to more money being made (on the contrary it will be less).

Whereas price does not have causality upon attendences, success on the pitch does tend to do so. Only when we start to do better, will attendances increase.

I actually agree with you about ticket prices being too expensive Star. However, this is just the economics of modern football. The ridiculous wages paid, puts so much pressure on clubs. It means that to break even/make a profit, they need bums on seats and to charge high prices. This is reflective in the lower leagues (though to a lesser extent) as well. With our wage bill and debts, we simply have to try and maximise revenue from ticket prices. It would be nice to make tickets cheaper, so that people of the breadline can afford it, but SUFC is a business and is profit driven.

 

[MobileBlade]

How's it compare to the first game of last season?

Wendy were at home first game of last season so capacity was about 900% when averaged across the division.

 

[Kenilworth]

Ollessendro good description of elasticity of demand. Cigarettes are a great example of an inelastic product: putting the price up does not lead to a drop in demand. Petrol, milk and bread are other classic examples.

Chocolate is a good example of an elastic product: more people will buy it if it's cheaper.

Elastic is a good example of an elastic product as well, I understand

 

[j j]

Stretching the metaphor until it snaps Kenilworth?