Lack of pace..

[BushBlade]

Just been listening to Graham Westley on Talk Sport saying academies don't really coach defending. That he gets 17 year olds coming from academies with no appetite for the defensive side of the game.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I agree, but the jockeying etc should be part of the process to tackle. By tackle I mean get the ball off the opposition, not neccessarliy by sliding in and taking man and ball

Out of curiosity whats is your definition of tackle and what do you think the parents definition was above?

Tbh it was as much a surprise to me as anyone that I didn't think the kids should be tackling.

Not really thought it through but I suppose it was all about dead ends and regaining possession by intercepting passes. But it was *really* apparent to me that tackling, going to ground was the last thing you wanted them to do as chances were even an average opponent would retain possession and we'd be effectively a player short.

I even ended up Googling it and remember seeing something about Delay, Deny, Destroy. (This was u8s and u9s, not UEFA Pro.)

First job is Delay the opposition, allow others to recover or maintain position and Deny the opportunity. Can't remember the details of Destroy. Maybe crowding out, intercepting or blocking.

Hammond at Old Trafford and Bash on Satdi are two examples of where *needless* tackles have cost us. Those situations were covered by weight of numbers.

Other tackles have saved us but generally when we've been chasing.

Maybe tackling just is not that big a part of the modern game.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Just been listening to Graham Westley on Talk Sport saying academies don't really coach defending. That he gets 17 year olds coming from academies with no appetite for the defensive side of the game.

My lads got nothing in the two years I had them, though that's a volunteer for an hour a week in the lower reaches of junior football.

I think it was apparent in Adams's game that that was what he was missing. He's picking it up.

Maybe the biggest difference between pro and amateur football is the defensive side of the game: what you do without the ball.

On the other side of things the Secret Footballer said he got no explicit technical coaching at all. It was all about organisation.

And he was a Premier League player on the fringes of England selection.

 

[Grappler]

My lads got nothing in the two years I had them, though that's a volunteer for an hour a week in the lower reaches of junior football.

I think it was apparent in Adams's game that that was what he was missing. He's picking it up.

Maybe the biggest difference between pro and amateur football is the defensive side of the game: what you do without the ball.

On the other side of things the Secret Footballer said he got no explicit technical coaching at all. It was all about organisation.

And he was a Premier League player on the fringes of England selection.

I have said this before, but isn't that supposed to be Dave Kitson?

 

[Grappler]

I helped coach a youth team that my son played in. From day one I told them not to be scared of going in, 50/50, and tackling (taking the ball away from someone elses feet).

They were not the most skillful lads but the opposition always knew they had been in a game against them. Nothing dirty, just being committed and wanting to get the ball. My lad ended up being great at slide tackling (on notoriously soggy, muddy pitches) and winning the ball.

I wish SUFC players would show a bit more "edge", close people down quicker, kick the ball away from their feet, put a foot in before the player gets into our box.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I have said this before, but isn't that supposed to be Dave Kitson?

He's a leading candidate but there are plenty of others.

I've read all three books and there's a lot of very specific information in there which should mean you could work it out,

This website http://www.whoisthesecretfootballer.co.uk/ has tried with a list of 40+ clues*, and who fits that description.

While I was reading the books I thought that was either a) more than one footballer and/or b) misleading information had been put into the book to throw bloodhounds off the scent.

It looks like Paul Kitson fits, but so do a lot of other players.

I'm tempted to go back through them and see what I think. They were all very quick reads.

*There are some individual, public incidents which I'd've thought could be tracked down to one player - even if there was no other information.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I helped coach a youth team that my son played in. From day one I told them not to be scared of going in, 50/50, and tackling (taking the ball away from someone elses feet).

They were not the most skillful lads but the opposition always knew they had been in a game against them. Nothing dirty, just being committed and wanting to get the ball. My lad ended up being great at slide tackling (on notoriously soggy, muddy pitches) and winning the ball.

I wish SUFC players would show a bit more "edge", close people down quicker, kick the ball away from their feet, put a foot in before the player gets into our box.

The first game we played I was relieved that the kids (well most of them) had a natural instinct to tackle when it came to it.

I think it was more situations where the kids were naturally jockeying and they shouldn't be diving in. Some of the parents who tbf didn't know anything about football (not a criticism, that's just the way it was) were shouting for tackles.

My oldest lad plays u18s and I hear it there as well.

I think the issue with being more proactive is that it exposes you if you don't get it right. Bergen highlighted one incident from Satdi when Bash either dived in or took a chance as directed by the management's tactics depending on your pov*. Wigan - and almost any professional team - are good enough to play against the resulting overload and work a shot on goal. It's what they spend all that time on during warm-ups and training sessions.

I think, though I don't know, the modern game is more about space and zones. It's the famous two banks of four. Every player is assigned a zone, particularly centrally, and if the ball comes in there then they make sure it doesn't get any further.

*The clip is here - but I reckon it could be any player from any game almost it's just an example of modern football.

 

[sheffielder]

Problem is we don't have anyone in midfield to pick a pass, who does the dirty work. Nearest we have is Reed or probably Coutts if you can trust him in the middle. Baxter can pick a pass but can't be trusted to not pick a sausage roll out of his socks before he gets it.

We do have pace we can put upfront in Done and Adams. Be half tempted to stick in JCR just to stretch the pitch, or Flynn who is a willing runner.

 

[Grappler]

Problem is we don't have anyone in midfield to pick a pass, who does the dirty work. Nearest we have is Reed or probably Coutts if you can trust him in the middle. Baxter can pick a pass but can't be trusted to not pick a sausage roll out of his socks before he gets it.

We do have pace we can put upfront in Done and Adams. Be half tempted to stick in JCR just to stretch the pitch, or Flynn who is a willing runner.

I know what you mean but I think Flynn has lost half a yard of pace since his glory goal at Aston Villa.

 

[judge]

In the Secret Footballer Xabi Alonso is quoted as saying he doesn't understand how tackling can be held in high regard as it generally is a last resort and indicates things have gone badly wrong.

The Numbers Game (or Soccernomics) talks about how Maldini was a low rated player by some measures because he averaged 1 tackle every two games.

The decline of tackling is part of modern football which I think is more about manipulating space: the attacking team try to open up spaces, the defending team try to keep them closed.

Coaching junior footballers parents were enthusiastically shouting for the kids to tackle but I found myself thinking it was the last thing I wanted them to do.

Jockey, show them the inside, or outside, but commiting to tackles meant you'd lose or lost control of the situation.

Not against it and I think Freeman made tackle of the season (away at Bradford?) but it's not what it used to be.

Think its more to do with the race between opposing players to be the first to hit the deck and 'win ' a free kick