Jim Phipps on Finances, Transfers, New Season

[davidpinder]

Who should we have signed David?
For each one you highlight I would ask the following;
Are they better than what we have?
Would they have moved to League One on a permanent contract?
How much in wages would they have wanted to drop to our level?
Would they be a season signing? ie good for League one, but we'd need to replace them again if we got promotion?

I honestly can't think of too many forwards who have moved to our league this season that tick 2 of those boxes, never mind 4.

Q1, i don't know i am not a football manager or scout but i am sure there are plenty of good players willing to sign. Why not sign Coady?
Q2, Yes i am sure they would have been, why not buy coady??
Q3, Why not? Wolves never had an issue keeping or attracting.
Q4, Not all clubs pay big wages, we should be able to compete with lower championship and all league 1.
Q5, No i am sure they could step up.

 

[davidpinder]

I think you're missing the key point which Pinchy also highlighted. Clough gave his request to the board and they met his request. Of course there is always the chance that it was his 3rd or 4th request, but that's an unknown so we can't speculate.

So Clough has brought in a good number of players, Most of which were also in early.

The Harry money is also something which wasn't in the budget ( at least not on plan A).

Next thing is that we need to find that striker within our budget. We have to work within a budget, were an operating business, we can't spend everything now, we must have contingency. What if Scoogs gets injured in October? We need to have money ready to spend. If you buy an expensive car you have to not only afford the car, but servicing and parts too... Were a football club and there are running costs.

The last point - spending doesn't guarantee success. Spend, but spend wisely. The prince didn't invest to lose money. Have faith

I have faith swiss but not as much as i hoped. Come on we should be ready to walk this league this year, Should the board not be giving clough a budget then he puts in his requests?? i just find it odd for a club that apparently has money to spend hasn't spent any. Another deal falls through today over money and we lose the loan for a promising forward not the answer to our problems but still another option. All top earners must have gone now so surely there must be a good budget for wages.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Q1, i don't know i am not a football manager or scout but i am sure there are plenty of good players willing to sign. Why not sign Coady?
Q2, Yes i am sure they would have been, why not buy coady??
Q3, Why not? Wolves never had an issue keeping or attracting.
Q4, Not all clubs pay big wages, we should be able to compete with lower championship and all league 1.
Q5, No i am sure they could step up.

Coady -
Liverpool are wanting a sizeable figure for his services according to Clough, a figure more than he's willing to meet currently. The make that deal happen now would be spending a lot of money in a position where we are currently quite strong, and well covered. I'm surprised you are wanting to spend big money in this position over the others, and I'd personal question that logic. I think any deal for Coady would happen into the season when Liverpool have tried to offload him for their top price and given everyone time to show their interest.

Wolves -
Who did Wolves attract last season from the league's above?

Q4
Again who has moved to a league one club that we should have definitely signed? I can't think of anyone, I'd even open that out to lower Championship.

 

[Esablade]

Personally, it's far better this way, with Jim communicating as he does...even if some think it's just PR 'the ol' soft sell' or whatever.
There is an attempt at dialogue and openness and this is to be welcomed ( I'm guessing with the 'Harry-Sun tan issue, things got out of control rapidly and we were forced to act) ...
I do like to think that we are all part of the same team, pulling together..whatever the reality is and there certainly does feel like we have a long term plan for the first time in ages and that we have a bit of momentum, both on and off the field.

UTB!

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I have faith swiss but not as much as i hoped. Come on we should be ready to walk this league this year, Should the board not be giving clough a budget then he puts in his requests?? i just find it odd for a club that apparently has money to spend hasn't spent any. Another deal falls through today over money and we lose the loan for a promising forward not the answer to our problems but still another option. All top earners must have gone now so surely there must be a good budget for wages.

Not quite from what I understand on the high earner front.

Spending money and spending money are two different things. I'm pretty certain our salary spending this season will be a good bit higher than last season, so we are spending money. Unfortunately the biggest misnomer in football is the 'free' transfer.

And the deal fell through because of the openness and information that fans are wanting and Big J seems to want to give. Seems to be a bit of conflict there that needs sorting out.

 

[Rodley]

For accounts to June 13, out total revenue was something like £8.85m , the total payroll was £8.87m. Not sure how the leccy bill was paid.

That was with the £3m from the Lowton sale. And we barely broke even. Even with Wembley money.

No wonder McCabe wanted out.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

That was with the £3m from the Lowton sale. And we barely broke even. Even with Wembley money.

No wonder McCabe wanted out.

Did we account for the full £3m from the Lowton sale in that year (highly unlikely)? Would the Wembley money from the playoff final have been invoiced for/paid out in time for the accounts?

 

[davidpinder]

Coady -
Liverpool are wanting a sizeable figure for his services according to Clough, a figure more than he's willing to meet currently. The make that deal happen now would be spending a lot of money in a position where we are currently quite strong, and well covered. I'm surprised you are wanting to spend big money in this position over the others, and I'd personal question that logic. I think any deal for Coady would happen into the season when Liverpool have tried to offload him for their top price and given everyone time to show their interest.

Wolves -
Who did Wolves attract last season from the league's above?

Q4
Again who has moved to a league one club that we should have definitely signed? I can't think of anyone, I'd even open that out to lower Championship.

Coady i'd be interested to know the fee, got to be worth paying something for a player who did well and wouldn't need to settle in

I didn't necessarily say wolves attracted only from above but they managed to get McDonald easily enough.

This will be on an opinion basis but i'd say Luke Freeman and Wade elliott are good signings for BC, Likely Winnall for dingles, i also think Hendo will be a good signing for Orient but i would rather have Higdon than Hendo so will see if that deal goes ahead.

I just fear we have signed a lot of unproven players and no striker as yet, We have lost Beard, Maguire, coady from the side that finished so well last season and i am not sure we have replaced with the same quality but we have in quantity. Also when you are talking about attracting players from higher leagues we have had no issue in attracting the 2 lads from Blackpool so it just shows that they will drop a division if they are confident it is for only one season.

 

[MobileBlade]

Did we account for the full £3m from the Lowton sale in that year (highly unlikely)? Would the Wembley money from the playoff final have been invoiced for/paid out in time for the accounts?

Not sure about the Lowton sale but in terms of the play-off we would not have made a lot from that. You only get 25% of the ticket sales after costs - I bet you were looking at £250K absolute maximum.

 

[Ted Danson]

Blackpool are comletly fucked though, they have a complete squad of 10 players and one of those is McMahon. Anyone with half a brain would want out of that club

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Coady i'd be interested to know the fee, got to be worth paying something for a player who did well and wouldn't need to settle in

I thought I saw £1.5-2 Million quoted but I would have to check. Eitherway that would be paying at the very top of his potential value, I'd even suggest it was way over his real worth right now

I didn't necessarily say wolves attracted only from above but they managed to get McDonald easily enough.

So, in light of that which players in our league should we have gone after that would have remained within League one.
It's also worth noting that Wolves had considerable spending power due to the parachute money which allowed them a significantly increased wage bill which other clubs in the league couldn't match.

This will be on an opinion basis but i'd say Luke Freeman and Wade elliott are good signings for BC, Likely Winnall for dingles, i also think Hendo will be a good signing for Orient but i would rather have Higdon than Hendo so will see if that deal goes ahead.

Luke Freeman is an interesting one as again, like Coady, I think we are strong outwide and he's not really been prolific to put him in as our forward. Wade Elliott is a player towards the end of his career and again is a midfielder which we don't really need.
I don't see why we would waste the wages on either.

I just fear we have signed a lot of unproven players and no striker as yet,

Mark McNulty?

We have lost Beard, Maguire, coady from the side that finished so well last season and i am not sure we have replaced with the same quality but we have in quantity. Also when you are talking about attracting players from higher leagues we have had no issue in attracting the 2 lads from Blackpool so it just shows that they will drop a division if they are confident it is for only one season.

Exactly so some players will do it, but they are the minority and those that do clearly want to play for the club, which is a big Cloughy bonus. The players you want, particularly quality strikers will not be available until the end of the window, or even only available in the loan window due to clubs not wanting to release.
I think we're looking OK, and although I think the first 10 matches will include some disappointing results while the team gels I think we've got everything we need to get out of this league already in our squad. I fully anticipate a couple of more exciting players arriving over the next month of so to further strengthen my belief.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I don't get this jizzfest that some Blades have for Luke Freeman. He had one great game against us. I've seen him in about a dozen games since and he was bobbins in all of them!

 

[SwissBlade]

I have faith swiss but not as much as i hoped. Come on we should be ready to walk this league this year, Should the board not be giving clough a budget then he puts in his requests?? i just find it odd for a club that apparently has money to spend hasn't spent any. Another deal falls through today over money and we lose the loan for a promising forward not the answer to our problems but still another option. All top earners must have gone now so surely there must be a good budget for wages.

Again, Jim has said they've met Nigel's requests - we've gone for all he wanted by the sounds of it

Are you saying that we should've upped the money for freeman? From what I read, it was all agreed, he was coming to sign, then freeman upped the demands. Good on Clough for fucking him off.

I think the one Clough (and myself) was disappointed to miss out on was O'Grady. Freeman was back up.

True we've missed out on Bennett but he was part of the freeman deal

Cloughs made some shrewd signings to bolster the squad. Looks very strong and in honesty, I'd rather let things settle first.

We do still need that goal scorer though, perhaps he's at the club, perhaps he'll come free before sept.

The worry I have is that with so many new faces, there is a danger of impatience amongst fans and they need to settle quickly

 

[SwissBlade]

But, has he brought in a number of good players

It's a great point. On paper yes. Plus with Cloughs record so far I believe in his judgement.

He's worked wonders with Weir/ Wilsons players. The ones Clough brought in also did great last season, so there's little reason to doubt him

There may be a settling in period, though we could do without that

 

[stannyblade]

It's a great point. On paper yes. Plus with Cloughs record so far I believe in his judgement.

He's worked wonders with Weir/ Wilsons players. The ones Clough brought in also did great last season, so there's little reason to doubt him

There may be a settling in period, though we could do without that

One didn't. But we can forgive NC for that

 

[Balham]

Did we account for the full £3m from the Lowton sale in that year (highly unlikely)? Would the Wembley money from the playoff final have been invoiced for/paid out in time for the accounts?

Think there's some confusion about the difference between cashflow and turnover:

With Lowton, everything certain would have been counted as turnover that year. Let's say, for argument's sake that the fee was:

• £2m guaranteed but payable in 4 instalments over 2 years
• £500k when Lowton played 25 league games for Villa
• £500k if he got a senior England cap

United's accountants would have included the £2m in turnover then applied a prudence factor to the additional money, probably considering it 95% likely that ML would play 25 games and 10% likely that he'd play for England.

Under the prudence concept*, none of those amounts would suffice to make the accounts. The £500k for playing in 25 league games would be included in the notes to the accounts as a "Contingent Asset" and would be included in turnover for the year in which it occurred; the 10% chance of the England cap is too remote to be included at all.

The Wembley money would have been in the accounts as it related to an event within that financial year: as an accrual if necessary.

The cashflow might well be different. With the Lowton fee described above, we would only have seen £1m in cash in the first year, with the subsequent £1m coming the following year. Chances are that the Wembey money would have arrived after the accounts closed.

*officially dead but still relevant

I don't get this jizzfest that some Blades have for Luke Freeman. He had one great game against us. I've seen him in about a dozen games since and he was bobbins in all of them!

Ahem... great minds, eh SEB?!

Never understood the fuss about Freeman. He had one good game against us three years ago but since then has done very little in a poor Stevenage side. We can and should aim higher.

Freeman isn't all that. Murphy and Campbell-Ryce are better left-sided options.

 

[grafikhaus]

Blackpool are completly fucked though, they have a complete squad of 10 players and one of those is McMahon. Anyone with half a brain would want out of that club

It's also worth noting that Wolves had considerable spending power due to the parachute money which allowed them a significantly increased wage bill which other clubs in the league couldn't match.

Blackpool have had/continue to have more parachute money than Wolves.

Not so simple, this football lark.

 

[SwissBlade]

davidpinder

Higdon signs. That'll do it for me, just get Brayford and his beard and were laughing

 

[davidpinder]

davidpinder

Higdon signs. That'll do it for me, just get Brayford and his beard and were laughing

It is what we wanted and could be the difference, goals win games.

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

It's weird how when we sign players, their salary has to come out of the transfer budget.
So players we sell or let go were obviously playing for free. Maguire was no doubt just on expenses.

The wage budget has nothing to do with cup money or Maguire money or investment money or anything else. Otherwise,
without all that money the club would be bankrupt. Also, other clubs manage to find players who will play for them in this division.
Wolves, Brentford and Rovrum managed to find plenty of players that would play for them, that's how they got promoted.
I would imagine near enough every team in the division had a striker who scored more goals than any of ours did. Where do they get them from that we can't??

EDIT: i don't think anybody expects money to be thrown about willy nilly, but this season we are in the unusual position of just having had two loan signings do pretty damn well for us and both would probably have been available a few months ago if we got the cheque book out. I reckon £1-£2m would have got both Brayford and Coady combined if we had gone in for them earlier. But we've been trying to land them both on the cheap and probably lost them both cos of it. That doesn't fit with the "can't get players" line, Brayford would have come here no problem. Now we have to wait and hope he plays crap and Cardiff want to get rid of him cheap.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Blackpool have had/continue to have more parachute money than Wolves.

Not so simple, this football lark.

....and about one man and a dog who pay to watch them plus a nutter for a chairman.

In short, they're royally fucked, with or without a parachute.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Blackpool have had/continue to have more parachute money than Wolves.

Not so simple, this football lark.

Blackpool are about to start their last season for parachute payments of £8M.

Wolves have 2 seasons of £8M, this and next, but are in a considerably stronger position financially. Their owner is much more minted and prepared to spend.

Blackpool are on a horrendous slide which I'd be surprised if they can correct this season.

 

[finlaytheblade]

My take on it is that everyone moans about the cup money and the Maguire money, but who exactly should we have spent it on? I can't think of any top strikers that have moved to other L1 clubs that we should have been competing with but not had the cash. The fact is we are an L1 club, and even if we had City's owners we'd struggle to get high class players to move here.

well said thhat man ! even man utd would struggle to get top quality players to drop into league 1 if they were in it

 

[Pinchy]

Clough is here for the long haul. Just like his dad (and apologies for the cliché) he wants to build a club not merely a team. He and SUFC have collided at exactly the right moment for both parties.

It's important that NC is overseeing the whole of football activities at the club. It's a pretty safe bet he wouldn't want to work under a Director of Football. I suspect he sees no point in such a role.

I think we need to pause and reflect. I was very optimistic that we'd have Coady and The Beard back this season - we still might, of course. What is clearly true is that NC has a real intensity about certain individuals with JB as number one.

What I'm coming round to (eventually) is that I'm quite sure we'll see both Conor Coady and the Bearded Wonder back in Blades' shirts, but we might have to wait a while longer than I thought.

 

[Pinchy]

I don't play at Twitter or Facebook myself. I simply couldn't cope with the demands of millions of followers.

I, for one, would be very interested to attend the sort of forum that Jim postulates. I'm sure Foxy could sort something for us if there were sufficient demand? Don't invite T.I.L.D. though. They'll go off on tangents about the economics of X-Box and Heineken.

 

[Foxy]

I'm sure Foxy could sort something for us if there were sufficient demand?

Spoken to him before about similar ideas, he's more than accommodating, time permitting.