I've waited a long time for a game like last night...

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Sheff de party

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That's the first time I've been for ages and it looked easy. Yes we put some running in, yes we didn't play very well, yes we created little. But we just looked like a side too good for a team racing towards the playoffs in Crawley. We rocked up, brought 800 fans who sang their hearts out and looked like a big team who shouldn't be playing at this level. I know it sounds arrogant, but I've wanted that for a long time.

I honestly don't care if we're in the Premier League watching Toure and Aguero smash 6 past us as we frantically aim for 17th. But we belong in the Championship and although it might not be this season, it'll surely be next season.

I also saw myself on the highlights for the first time since I was about 15. Sorry to the guy who almost had his coffee knocked out his hand after I bounded down to the front to politely inform the ref that that was a penalty and he'd possibly got it wrong.

Thanks to NC and the RAWW for another top evening out.
 

It's good to hear that when someone goes to a game, who hasn't been for ages for whatever reason, that they enjoyed themselves and it stoked that little fire up again.
 
Thy obviously dint gu t Crawley last season, cos we were just as comfortable. In fact I thought in December 2012 they threatened less.

I did not think it looked easy at all. Crawley created chances and will feel they were unlucky. Howard made an excellent save at 0-0 and they hit the post at 1-0. Football matches are won and lost on fine margins and tother neet we had a bit of luck. It's pure scoreline journalism if you think it was easy at Broadfield Stadium on Tuesday.

We had to work damn hard too. the lads put a shift in. Murphy, Freeman and Coady will be knackered from their box to box running, Doyle, McGinn and Davies too as they had to get back and defend and the back4 were very busy. We worked hard to get men back and there were often 10 yellow shirts behind the ball.

There were loads of games under Wilson (particularly last season) when we looked solid and comfortable, so I don't know what you class as a long time?!

In fact, I disagree with just about everything in the OP ....... Except that it was a thoroughly enjoyable evening.
 
Thy obviously dint gu t Crawley last season, cos we were just as comfortable. In fact I thought in December 2012 they threatened less.

I did not think it looked easy at all. Crawley created chances and will feel they were unlucky. Howard made an excellent save at 0-0 and they hit the post at 1-0. Football matches are won and lost on fine margins and tother neet we had a bit of luck. It's pure scoreline journalism if you think it was easy at Broadfield Stadium on Tuesday.

We had to work damn hard too. the lads put a shift in. Murphy, Freeman and Coady will be knackered from their box to box running, Doyle, McGinn and Davies too as they had to get back and defend and the back4 were very busy. We worked hard to get men back and there were often 10 yellow shirts behind the ball.

There were loads of games under Wilson (particularly last season) when we looked solid and comfortable, so I don't know what you class as a long time?!

In fact, I disagree with just about everything in the OP ....... Except that it was a thoroughly enjoyable evening.



Problem with Wilson was that he didn't play wingers in wing positions and didn't allow any player to push up and support strikers; yes, of course we were solid but we rarely won enough games, especially at home.
 
Problem with Wilson was that he didn't play wingers in wing positions and didn't allow any player to push up and support strikers; yes, of course we were solid but we rarely won enough games, especially at home.

The problem with Wilson was that he built his attack around one player the same as he did at Barnsley with Redfearn. So that when KMac was injured we couldn't buy a win, even though Ched was scoring loads. What is different now is the numerous threats we have with the wingers, Baxter, Scoogs and Coady. And with the Fullbacks overlapping and putting in great crosses and linking up well we have options all over the place. We have much greater depth in quality. The problem is how many of these do we keep next season.

Glass half empty time but Brayford gone, coady gone, possibly Harry gone, Davies gone, Harris is out of contract could rip the guts out of it.

Glass half full we should still have Baxter (fitter) Scoogs, Murphy and Flynn, so the nucleus of a good attacking midfield.
 
Problem with Wilson was that he didn't play wingers in wing positions and didn't allow any player to push up and support strikers; yes, of course we were solid but we rarely won enough games, especially at home.

Wilson won more than half of his games as manager. I am not a big Wilson fan, but saying we did not win enough is a bit rich. Away from home (and Tuesday's match was an away game) we had lots of games where we won comfortably under Wilson. In the first season I remember us battering teams on the road and playing some good stuff, in the 2nd it was a lot duller but we ground results out. I am not looking to turn this into a Wilson debate. I just find it bizarre that the opening post says he was 'waiting for a night like that for a long time' when we were not that good and there's been much better performances within the last few seasons. I can only think that Shef de Party has had his head stuck in the sand.
 
Wilson won more than half of his games as manager. I am not a big Wilson fan, but saying we did not win enough is a bit rich. Away from home (and Tuesday's match was an away game) we had lots of games where we won comfortably under Wilson. In the first season I remember us battering teams on the road and playing some good stuff, in the 2nd it was a lot duller but we ground results out. I am not looking to turn this into a Wilson debate. I just find it bizarre that the opening post says he was 'waiting for a night like that for a long time' when we were not that good and there's been much better performances within the last few seasons. I can only think that Shef de Party has had his head stuck in the sand.

I think I know where he is coming from.

Tranmere away, was it March 13 when the Blades fans celebrated a poor 1-0 win like we'd won the cup, I thought we were crap. Watching the Blades had become a chore.

Wolves game - lost 2-0 and I loved it.

Clough has brought some fairy dust and sprinkled it over BDTBL.
 
Let's have a 'mass debate' about Wilson!

My take on him is a little like Blackwell. He did great with a very, very expensive squad( for the league) with players used to playing a league above and should have done better. Then players were sold under him and 'his true managerial prowess' shone through...fairly average in truth.

I don't rank him as low as Blackie mind but that's probably just a personality thing.

UTB!
 
I think I know where he is coming from.

Tranmere away, was it March 13 when the Blades fans celebrated a poor 1-0 win like we'd won the cup, I thought we were crap. Watching the Blades had become a chore.

Wolves game - lost 2-0 and I loved it.

Clough has brought some fairy dust and sprinkled it over BDTBL.

We're all excited about current events. But the OP seems to have been in North Korea whilst we outplayed Villa, won at Fulham, beat Forrest, played a 2nd string team and beat 6th and steamroller our way past everyone. Plus, I think that is probably the worst that we have played since Crewe.

I just cannot abide by the 'we belong in the Championship' comment either. Fook me, I hope that Clough and the Prince don't have such a lack of ambition. I find the Premiership pretty boring, but fook me we should be aiming to get back there.
 
We're all excited about current events. But the OP seems to have been in North Korea whilst we outplayed Villa, won at Fulham, beat Forrest, played a 2nd string team and beat 6th and steamroller our way past everyone. Plus, I think that is probably the worst that we have played since Crewe.

I just cannot abide by the 'we belong in the Championship' comment either. Fook me, I hope that Clough and the Prince don't have such a lack of ambition. I find the Premiership pretty boring, but fook me we should be aiming to get back there.

If you think we were lucky Tuesday neet you worry too much Oliver, much like you do about those post-match Rubees. If you look, I said I'd been waiting for a time when we didn't play well and still made a win look easy. My second sentence acknowledges we didn't play well. On that basis, you can discount Villa (which I went to), Fulham (which I went to), Forrest (which I watched), probably beating Pboro (which I didn't watch) and anyone we steamrollered. I'm not talking about those games.

What I am talking about is where we don't play well or create much, but still don't look like losing. That was Tuesday night in a nutshell. I'm sure it is the worse we've played since Crewe, but after the first 10 minutes had gone we were never going to lose and it was against a side aspiring for the playoffs. I see it as a sign of progress, as when we don't play well we win (and can keep a clean sheet). When we do play well, we're going to hammer teams. Many times over the last year, we'd have lost that game, but I honestly never saw that happening last night.
 

The problem with Wilson was that he built his attack around one player the same as he did at Barnsley with Redfearn. So that when KMac was injured we couldn't buy a win, even though Ched was scoring loads. What is different now is the numerous threats we have with the wingers, Baxter, Scoogs and Coady. And with the Fullbacks overlapping and putting in great crosses and linking up well we have options all over the place. We have much greater depth in quality. The problem is how many of these do we keep next season.

Glass half empty time but Brayford gone, coady gone, possibly Harry gone, Davies gone, Harris is out of contract could rip the guts out of it.

Glass half full we should still have Baxter (fitter) Scoogs, Murphy and Flynn, so the nucleus of a good attacking midfield.

Lots of unanswered question there Jezza, especially the position of Harry, will he stay or will he go? I'm unsure about his contractual position so no idea when his agreement with the clubs comes to an end? I'd hope that something is already in hand to retain him, same goes for Harris, think he's turned into a decent left-back for us. I'd also hold onto Davies and Freeman if possible, but as I said, lots of questions begging answers.

Football's an ever changing proposition, so what can look like doom and gloom one moment can be flipped on it's head the next by the injection of a few new, decent players. So I'm not particularly worried, Clough will already be addressing these, as well as other problems.
 
Lots of unanswered question there Jezza, especially the position of Harry, will he stay or will he go? I'm unsure about his contractual position so no idea when his agreement with the clubs comes to an end? I'd hope that something is already in hand to retain him, same goes for Harris, think he's turned into a decent left-back for us. I'd also hold onto Davies and Freeman if possible, but as I said, lots of questions begging answers.

Football's an ever changing proposition, so what can look like doom and gloom one moment can be flipped on it's head the next by the injection of a few new, decent players. So I'm not particularly worried, Clough will already be addressing these, as well as other problems.

Yeah your right. I am sure NC is sorting something but with Harry and Brayford I doubt league 1 is an option for them. I think Harry will want to kick on and this was shop window stuff for Brayford. Again for Davies and Freeman shop window but Davies may stay, Freeman may stay as its regular footie for him and a good coach so you never know. It is a flux state but should the miracle of a last gasp play off promotion happen then it is a totally different picture. I'm I the glass half empty on that though I know its possible but unfortunately improbable.
Even if we made 6th which is difficult enough, and out of our hands, its still a lottery after that.
 
Wilson won more than half of his games as manager. I am not a big Wilson fan, but saying we did not win enough is a bit rich. Away from home (and Tuesday's match was an away game) we had lots of games where we won comfortably under Wilson. In the first season I remember us battering teams on the road and playing some good stuff, in the 2nd it was a lot duller but we ground results out. I am not looking to turn this into a Wilson debate. I just find it bizarre that the opening post says he was 'waiting for a night like that for a long time' when we were not that good and there's been much better performances within the last few seasons. I can only think that Shef de Party has had his head stuck in the sand.


Any manager could win games with the players h e inherited for first
I think I know where he is coming from.

Tranmere away, was it March 13 when the Blades fans celebrated a poor 1-0 win like we'd won the cup, I thought we were crap. Watching the Blades had become a chore.





Wolves game - lost 2-0 and I loved it.

Clough has brought some fairy dust and sprinkled it over BDTBL.




Wilson inherited a squad on 11m wages and had a 3m pound striker who scored 30 plus goals, imo we did not play good football and we petered out badly when chef left. Year 2 he still had a very big budget for L1 but we were turgid, home and away. Full backs never pushed up, McDonald never crossed the halfway line and the wingers weren't wingers, they held position.

As for the win ratio, I think he failed badly on the budgets he had. And how defensive and boring he was when his wage budget was only 6m, much more than the current figure.
 
Yeah your right. I am sure NC is sorting something but with Harry and Brayford I doubt league 1 is an option for them. I think Harry will want to kick on and this was shop window stuff for Brayford. Again for Davies and Freeman shop window but Davies may stay, Freeman may stay as its regular footie for him and a good coach so you never know. It is a flux state but should the miracle of a last gasp play off promotion happen then it is a totally different picture. I'm I the glass half empty on that though I know its possible but unfortunately improbable.
Even if we made 6th which is difficult enough, and out of our hands, its still a lottery after that.

You're right mate, you can't blame players for wanting to better themselves. I think that as lovely as the romantic notion of loyalty is in football, if a player has the chance to triple or quadruple his wages, in the process taking care of his future when his playing days are over, it's a no-brainer. Clubs are quick to dispense with players when they see fit so who can blame a player for showing the same self-interest about their future?

All of the above to one side, we're in quite a good place with those employed by the club, most importantly the manager. This is where the vision and direction of the club will come from. As regards players, what we achieve etc, the key to most of these questions will rest between the manager and the person who controls the purse strings. Let's hope the desire is there to reverse the years of decline. This is a club with potential that's been wasted and abused. Is it any wonder that we have some of the most cynical supporters you could wish to find? Also, it's a small miracle that we have supporters who retain hope that one day we'll see a change in direction. Will we look back on Clough's appointment as the day this club began to match it's supporter's desire to move forward? The next couple of years should prove interesting and provide answers to these questions.
 
You're right mate, you can't blame players for wanting to better themselves. I think that as lovely as the romantic notion of loyalty is in football, if a player has the chance to triple or quadruple his wages, in the process taking care of his future when his playing days are over, it's a no-brainer. Clubs are quick to dispense with players when they see fit so who can blame a player for showing the same self-interest about their future?

All of the above to one side, we're in quite a good place with those employed by the club, most importantly the manager. This is where the vision and direction of the club will come from. As regards players, what we achieve etc, the key to most of these questions will rest between the manager and the person who controls the purse strings. Let's hope the desire is there to reverse the years of decline. This is a club with potential that's been wasted and abused. Is it any wonder that we have some of the most cynical supporters you could wish to find? Also, it's a small miracle that we have supporters who retain hope that one day we'll see a change in direction. Will we look back on Clough's appointment as the day this club began to match it's supporter's desire to move forward? The next couple of years should prove interesting and provide answers to these questions.

Are we the most cynical? You are right we have some very cynical fans indeed, and we have been starved of any real success other than the triple assault season (which ended up without promotion and getting knocked out of two semis so not ultimately successful) and 1 promotion to the Prem since McCabe took over. That's the sum total of our success.
But look at the Manure fans the other night after losing to Citeh. They were going mental wanting Moyes out, if they had a car park below the directors box there, there would have been more shoes in the air than all those in stock in a Clarkes distribution centre. And these are fans whose team won the league last year and are currently the champions. We can go into detail about glory support etc., but one season off the pace but still in the top half of the Prem and they want to lynch the manager. So I think there is a perspective here that needs to be looked at.
The perspective is that we are so used to dross directorship management, poor football decisions, players sold if there is any residual value, money being pulled from the club, that many have become accustomed to it. The cynicism to some has become an acceptance of mediocrity that it almost became a sarcastic joke if there was any good news. We have had terrible misfortune as well the last two seasons particularly with Ched and KMac.
So the appointment and success of NC is something really exciting to fans that are so used to the constant downgrading of their team. The guy has very quietly shaken the crap out of the footballing side, sussed out the mediocre and strengthened the good parts.
I think he may be here for a long time, as he likes longevity in jobs and could well turn this clubs fortunes, if backed by the Board, to one of constant improvement to take us to goodness knows where. I hope so.
 
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Are we the most cynical? You are right we have some very cynical fans indeed, and we have been starved of any real success other than the triple assault season (which ended up without promotion and getting knocked out of two semis so not ultimately successful) and 1 promotion to the Prem since McCabe took over. That's the sum total of our success.
But look at the Manure fans the other night after losing to Citeh. They were going mental wanting Moyes out, if they had a par park below the directors box there, there would have been more shoes in the air than all those in stock in a Clarkes distribution centre. And these are fans whose team won the league last year and are currently the champions. We can go into detail about glory support etc., but one season off the pace but still in the top half of the Prem and they want to lynch the manager. So I think there is a perspective here that needs to be looked at.
The perspective is that we are so used to dross directorship management, poor football decisions, players sold if there is any residual value, money being pulled from the club, that many have become accustomed to it. The cynicism to some has become an acceptance of mediocrity that it almost became a sarcastic joke if there was any good news. We have had terrible misfortune as well the last two seasons particularly with Ched and KMac.
So the appointment and success of NC is something really exciting to fans that are so used to the constant downgrading of their team. The guy has very quietly shaken the crap out of the footballing side, sussed out the mediocre and strengthened the good parts.
I think he may be here for a long time, as he likes longevity in jobs and could well turn this clubs fortunes, if backed by the Board, to one of constant improvement to take us to goodness knows where. I hope so.

Fair comment Jezza, it's a difficult one to quantify, but we must be up there with some of the most cynical fans around, surely?

Now, the question of 'fans' who have been spoilt with success, who think they have an entitlement to win something every season, and then have a strop when they are embarrassed by losing their crown, well forgive me, how tough is it to follow either Manchester club, although I will tip my hat to City supporters. At least their new found success has come after living for years in Man U's shadow. The difference is that we've been led up the garden path, tomorrow is always going to be better, or at least that's the line that's been trotted out each time a new manager is appointed. We've had a few serious turkeys as our manager, and it shows. Poor signings, on money me or thee could only dream about, yet we turn up in our thousands to support whoever puts on the shirt. With Clough the mood has changed. It seems we finally have a grown up in charge of this school, and it feels refreshing. I'm beginning to shed my cynicism at long last, and that in itself feels a bit strange, but I like it and want more.

For anyone who hasn't read Alan Biggs column in the Telegraph, it's featured on another thread on here, seek it out and tell me that you don't see a serious change in attitude throughout this club.

You are spot on....words like mediocrity have become synonymous with what we've aspired to, but I doubt Clough will accept this any longer. Good for him, with our size, compared to the likes of Norwich or West Brom, surely we could progress until we have a quality player that plays in every position for this club? It can't be too much to hope for can it? But the cynic in me won't be holding my breath in the meantime.

With Clough leading us I'm happy to be patient, but as you so rightly identified, the Board will have to back him, otherwise we'll have blown our best chance for a few decades in creating something worth waiting for. If Nigel gets that support we may find that we look back on his appointment as the moment we shook ourselves down, said fuck it, and went about the business of creating a legacy to be proud of.
 

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