it's time to start panicking

[PeterNdlovu081]

As the league isn't decided on Goals scored then that table is irrelevant.

I know but it still doesn't look good.

Don't worry I'm not one of Olle's disciples.

 

[Sensiblade]

I know but it still doesn't look good.

Don't worry I'm not one of Olle's disciples.

I don't tag people and don't want to be tagged either.

I agree it doesn't read well, but the goals will come. Not likely in the way they came for Preston against the scum yesterday but they will come.

 

[Ollessendro]

I am saying, as I did last week, that 'based on general play' we were unlucky not to pick up points in certain games. You can pick out certain mistakes or incidents that lead to goals and say that luck doesn't come into it, fair enough, I can't argue with that but that doesn't tell the true picture of how the game went overall which, to me, is a better indicator of how we are playing.

For the Leeds game, they just about won possession by 2% yet we had 5 shots on target to their 2, how does that fit into your theory ? Yesterday, their keeper made a good save from Boggy at 1-0, does that make us unlucky (as Pompey) ? No, Simmo makes a mistake which costs us the game in your book.

Boggy's shot was more of a miss than a save. You'd expect the keeper to save that every time. On the other hand, Leeds scored with one of their 2 chances and Simmo pulled of an excellent save for the other (which you would not always expect a keeper to save).

nPower Championship Goal Scoring Table

1. QPR 22
2. Watford 20
3. Derby County 15
4. Leeds United 15
5. Burnley 14
6. Cardiff City 14
7. Millwall 14
8. Norwich City 14
9. Swansea City 14
10. Barnsley 13
11. Coventry 13
12. Preston North End 13
13. Reading 13
14 Doncaster Rovers 12
15. Ipswich 11
16. Portsmouth 11
17. Leicester City 10
18. Nottingham Forest 10
19. Scunthorpe United 10
20. Middlesbrough 9
21. Bristol City 8
22. Crystal Palace 8
23. Hull City 7
24. Sheffield United 5

This is very worrying.

I don't tag people and don't want to be tagged either.

I agree it doesn't read well, but the goals will come. Not likely in the way they came for Preston against the scum yesterday but they will come.

Sensi is right that the league table is not arrnaged by GS, but this stat is very worrying. But Sensi, where will the goals come from?

 

[Sensiblade]

But Sensi, where will the goals come from?

From the players on the pitch obviously.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

nPower Championship Goal Scoring Table

1. QPR 22
2. Watford 20
3. Derby County 15
4. Leeds United 15
5. Burnley 14
6. Cardiff City 14
7. Millwall 14
8. Norwich City 14
9. Swansea City 14
10. Barnsley 13
11. Coventry 13
12. Preston North End 13
13. Reading 13
14 Doncaster Rovers 12
15. Ipswich 11
16. Portsmouth 11
17. Leicester City 10
18. Nottingham Forest 10
19. Scunthorpe United 10
20. Middlesbrough 9
21. Bristol City 8
22. Crystal Palace 8
23. Hull City 7
24. Sheffield United 5

As worrying as that is, the league table for defence has us in 8th place, so not all doom and gloom.

There's every reason to believe that the defence won't get any worse but the goals will come, have faith

 

[raul]

Is that the same defence that's now shorn of it's centre-halves then Fleety??

 

[shorehamview]

nPower Championship Goal Scoring Table

1. QPR 22
2. Watford 20
3. Derby County 15
4. Leeds United 15
5. Burnley 14
6. Cardiff City 14
7. Millwall 14
8. Norwich City 14
9. Swansea City 14
10. Barnsley 13
11. Coventry 13
12. Preston North End 13
13. Reading 13
14 Doncaster Rovers 12
15. Ipswich 11
16. Portsmouth 11
17. Leicester City 10
18. Nottingham Forest 10
19. Scunthorpe United 10
20. Middlesbrough 9
21. Bristol City 8
22. Crystal Palace 8
23. Hull City 7
24. Sheffield United 5

I wouldn't worry about it. After all, we've been told that statistics can be manipulated and the table lies. So that's that then.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Is that the same defence that's now shorn of it's centre-halves then Fleety??

True but considering we've used 9 players in the back four already this season, changing it again shouldn't be a problem

 

[frechyblade]

Scunthorpe had more shots on target and scored 4 more goals than us. Can you really argue that we were unlucky Jim?

And come on we were poor against Leeds. They were the better of 2 sides. Other than Ertls header we didn't trouble them. They forced an excellent save out of SS and scored.

The Boro game was poor and there wasn't much between the 2 teams. However we gave them a gift of a goal. Don't you see the difference between giving away a soft goal (not unlcuky, just poor) and the opposition keeper having a great game (unlucky for your team). If against Leeds and Boro we'd created clear cut chances and worked their keeper I might feel different. If either Leeds or Boro's keepers made very good saves or stopped shots they didn't have any right to (like Simmon did against Pompey) then I'd agree that we were unlucky. Unfortunately we gave away 2 very soft goals which lost the game. Now you can call it many things (naive, poor, relegation material or frutsrating) but you cannot call it unlucky.

Ollie, you can make statistics say what you want. Yes Scunthorpe had more attempts on target (10 - 9) but we had a further 11 attempts to there 3. I'm not sure if the woodwork counts as off target. The two attemps you mention for leeds were the only ones on target we had 5 so using your earlier argument we were the better team. Lies damn lies and statistics.

Whilst I agre with some of your comments i.e. we need to score more goals, at the moment, and at the end of the season, the one statistic the really matters is the column on the league table = Points. Couple the need to pick up points and try and change a whole club ethos to start trying to play 'Football' and I can live with where we are and what Mr Speed is doing. As I mentioned the other week, i'm enjoying going to the Lane again and not even tempted to stay in The Standard come 2:45.

UTB

 

[Ollessendro]

As worrying as that is, the league table for defence has us in 8th place, so not all doom and gloom.

There's every reason to believe that the defence won't get any worse but the goals will come, have faith

Speedo certainly seems to think so. Signing another defender suggests he is of your way of thinking Jim and thinks that having a solid defence will keep us up.

I wouldn't worry about it. After all, we've been told that statistics can be manipulated and the table lies. So that's that then.

As much as you are sarcastic you are actually right. There is more than goals scored to signify how well a team is attacking. Of course, like the league table, it contains randomness becuase it does't account for luck, bad decisions, number of shots, number of saves etc.

Ollie, you can make statistics say what you want. Yes Scunthorpe had more attempts on target (10 - 9) but we had a further 11 attempts to there 3. I'm not sure if the woodwork counts as off target. The two attemps you mention for leeds were the only ones on target we had 5 so using your earlier argument we were the better team. Lies damn lies and statistics.

Whilst I agre with some of your comments i.e. we need to score more goals, at the moment, and at the end of the season, the one statistic the really matters is the column on the league table = Points. Couple the need to pick up points and try and change a whole club ethos to start trying to play 'Football' and I can live with where we are and what Mr Speed is doing. As I mentioned the other week, i'm enjoying going to the Lane again and not even tempted to stay in The Standard come 2:45.

UTB

That's exactly what i was pointing out when I said statistics can be manipulated. My example shows that.

You can't serisouly count shots off target Frechy, come off it. What's the saying 'you can't win the lottery without buying a ticket'. Where as we efforts often gives an indication of how a team are playing (i.e. creating chances) you can't count shots off target as being unlcuky, it is just poor. Are you seriosuly saying that we were unlucky against Scunthorpe? They outscored us 4 to 0. Maybe if it had been one nil, then you could say yeah we should have won. But stating, oh we should have scored 5 is just ludicrous.

I'm not arguing that anything other than points matters. It will be that that either keeps us up or sends us down at the end of the season. However goal difference is an excellent indicator of how well (and consistent) a team is playing. It is points ultimately that matter (i have never argued against that but our goals scored and goal difference is very worrying (goals conceded isn't so bad). Look at the goal differences of the teams around us and it tells a story.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Speedo certainly seems to think so. Signing another defender suggests he is of your way of thinking Jim and thinks that having a solid defence will keep us up.



As much as you are sarcastic you are actually right. There is more than goals scored to signify how well a team is attacking. Of course, like the league table, it contains randomness becuase it does't account for luck, bad decisions, number of shots, number of saves etc.



That's exactly what i was pointing out when I said statistics can be manipulated. My example shows that.

You can't serisouly count shots off target Frechy, come off it. What's the saying 'you can't win the lottery without buying a ticket'. Where as we efforts often gives an indication of how a team are playing (i.e. creating chances) you can't count shots off target as being unlcuky, it is just poor. Are you seriosuly saying that we were unlucky against Scunthorpe? They outscored us 4 to 0. Maybe if it had been one nil, then you could say yeah we should have won. But stating, oh we should have scored 5 is just ludicrous.

I'm not arguing that anything other than points matters. It will be that that either keeps us up or sends us down at the end of the season. However goal difference is an excellent indicator of how well (and consistent) a team is playing. It is points ultimately that matter (i have never argued against that but our goals scored and goal difference is very worrying (goals conceded isn't so bad). Look at the goal differences of the teams around us and it tells a story.

You're either missing the point completely or taking the proverbial.

I, and many others are trying to point out that general play tells you much more about how a team is performing than results and stats alone. You can argue all day about shots on and off target (and how you conveniently don't count these), possession, keepers making saves etc etc but it doesn't tell the whole story.

Yes, we need to score more goals, that is blatantly obvious but we have played OK under Speed thus far and for that reason, I am not panicking.

End of

 

[Ollessendro]

You're either missing the point completely or taking the proverbial.

I, and many others are trying to point out that general play tells you much more about how a team is performing than results and stats alone. You can argue all day about shots on and off target (and how you conveniently don't count these), possession, keepers making saves etc etc but it doesn't tell the whole story.

Yes, we need to score more goals, that is blatantly obvious but we have played OK under Speed thus far and for that reason, I am not panicking.

End of

end of what? You're giving up Jim.

what exactly is general play?

Besides I never said that the match stats tell the whole picture. They tell more of the picture than just goals scored and conceded though. To get the whole picture you would indeed need to account for general play. So if you can supply me with number of passes strung together, player ratings, number of tackles, time spend in opposition half etc that proves me wrong then please feel free to do so. I am arguing that the stats tell more of the picture than the result. Not the whole picture, but more of the picture than simply the result.

 

[shorehamview]

I am arguing that the stats tell more of the picture than the result. Not the whole picture, but more of the picture than simply the result.

I would argue that actually watching the matches gives you the whole picture. All of the matches. I therefore can't give you a full picture of the whole season because I haven't been to an away match yet although I've seen the televised ones. I would also suggest that you get a better idea of the performances as a whole from one of the four stands and two sexy corners at Bramall Lane than perhaps you might at another venue, say the moon perhaps, or your local branch of a certain home improvement retailer.

 

[Micalijo]

I would argue that actually watching the matches gives you the whole picture. All of the matches. I therefore can't give you a full picture of the whole season because I haven't been to an away match yet although I've seen the televised ones. I would also suggest that you get a better idea of the performances as a whole from one of the four stands and two sexy corners at Bramall Lane than perhaps you might at another venue, say the moon perhaps, or your local branch of a certain home improvement retailer.

If it's any help I've seen 7 of the 9 matches so far and the big picture I see is that we are a very, very poor side, way short of all the attributes which a team needs to score more than the occassional goal. People think Speedo can somehow turn our sorry bunch into a team that can score a few goals - I think it is impossible, but good luck to him, he genuinely has my best wishes.

When was our last goal from open play again? Maybe I was asleep? Sorry, Derby - missed that game.

 

[Ollessendro]

Apperently it's time to chill the fuck out. We should all ignore the fact that we are absolutely crap and put our blid faith in Speed. A manager with no experience, who has taken over a talentless bunch of players who are lacking in confidence. He has no money to try to rebuild the team and can't change the style because the players aren't up for.

I presume that Highbury has seen Gary Speed walking across the River Don without a bridge (though he might have a job from North London) and hence he believes that miracles may happen and Speed may get this SUFC team scoring and playing decent football.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

It would only be time to start panicking if we actually had crap players.

At the moment we just have a decent set of players that are playing crap. Things will get better.

 

[Ollessendro]

It would only be time to start panicking if we actually had crap players.

At the moment we just have a decent set of players that are playing crap. Things will get better.

Do you honestly believe that? Who do you rate in our current side?

If Speed was to have a clear out next summer I think I'd want him to keep maybe 3 or 4 players.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Do you honestly believe that? Who do you rate in our current side?

If Speed was to have a clear out next summer I think I'd want him to keep maybe 3 or 4 players.

Last season we finished 8th with largely the same group of players and a manager who was supposedly the worst thing since sliced shit.

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

Who do you rate in our current side?

Nick Montgomery
Chris Morgan
Darius Henderson
Leon Britton
Daniel Bogdanović
Mark Yeates
Jean Calvé
Lee Williamson
Richard Cresswell
Jamie Ward

 

[Pinchy]

Nuddy,

I'm afraid your credibility failed to survive the first name. I doubt anyone was able to read the rest of your list owing to uncontrollable, debilitating laughter.

 

[Bramley]

Apperently it's time to chill the fuck out. We should all ignore the fact that we are absolutely crap and put our blid faith in Speed. A manager with no experience, who has taken over a talentless bunch of players who are lacking in confidence. He has no money to try to rebuild the team and can't change the style because the players aren't up for.

I presume that Highbury has seen Gary Speed walking across the River Don without a bridge (though he might have a job from North London) and hence he believes that miracles may happen and Speed may get this SUFC team scoring and playing decent football.

What's your solution?

 

[sheffielder]

What's your solution?

Don't tell him Pike!

 

[Kopped]

It's not time to start Panicking, It's time to have patience and back the Manager.

The amount of Booing and Jeering last Saturday was a disgrace after just 6 weeks of his tenure.

The Football is better, he's addressed 2 of the problems with our Club already and the signs are much better than I expected so far.

People look at the Points and Games column in the league. Speed hasn't even had 10 games in charge yet.

8 Games and has 10 points. The Football is better, the defence is more solid and stable and the midfield are becoming more comfortable on the ball. We just need to start banging goals in. Once we actually come into form, there's a strong possibility that we are going to hammer someone. And I mean proper hammer them.

Of cause this means that there will be a few fans getting delusions of grandeur and the boo's will ring out if we don't do it again the next game.

Speed needs time. It's high time thye fans stood up and let him get on with the job instead of kicking him in the teeth as soon as we hit a barren spell.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Well said Kopped

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Yeh good stuff Kopped. A bit of positivity is what we need. Although I must temper that, as I honestly dont think we are that close to hitting a run of form. I think the team is lacking balance and we need bodies back as well as a couple in. It is going to take time and we need to be patient but we also need to start picking some points up in the meantime.

Agree though about Speed. Far far too early to judge and he is showing positive signs so I'm confident he will get it right. He needs some help from upstairs though, pronto!

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

Is positivity more correct than negativity? Is "the goals will come, have faith" any more accurate than "the goals won't come, don't have faith"?

Now, there may be a couple of wind ups on here, and although genuine views are probably behind it, opinions become polarised and people disagree for the sake of it.

I really enjoy discussing what we could be doing to get it right, to improve, and it's why I use message boards for. I always worry about us not doing things the right way, but I also have the view that there is often only a few changes needed to turn things around. Football fans should expect to go through different mental states, and worrying is a surely a lot better than apathy?

 

[Fiery Blade]

It's not time to start Panicking, It's time to have patience and back the Manager.

The amount of Booing and Jeering last Saturday was a disgrace after just 6 weeks of his tenure.

The Football is better, he's addressed 2 of the problems with our Club already and the signs are much better than I expected so far.

People look at the Points and Games column in the league. Speed hasn't even had 10 games in charge yet.

8 Games and has 10 points. The Football is better, the defence is more solid and stable and the midfield are becoming more comfortable on the ball. We just need to start banging goals in. Once we actually come into form, there's a strong possibility that we are going to hammer someone. And I mean proper hammer them.

Of cause this means that there will be a few fans getting delusions of grandeur and the boo's will ring out if we don't do it again the next game.

Speed needs time. It's high time thye fans stood up and let him get on with the job instead of kicking him in the teeth as soon as we hit a barren spell.

Whilst I applaud and support your backing of Speedo I am at a loss to why you think we are going to hammer the opposition.
Our crossing of the ball is abysmal, we very rarely beat the first man on corners / free kicks, we seem at a loss how to break down defences, our shooting is awful and heading even worse!
Our front men are pedestrian and our midfielders (apart from Britton) lack vision, guile and creativity
Our defence drops at least two rickets every game and our goalkeeper one every other game
Hammer someone, two 1-0 wins on the trot seems utopia to me at present!

 

[Kopped]

Whilst I applaud and support your backing of Speedo I am at a loss to why you think we are going to hammer the opposition.
Our crossing of the ball is abysmal, we very rarely beat the first man on corners / free kicks, we seem at a loss how to break down defences, our shooting is awful and heading even worse!
Our front men are pedestrian and our midfielders (apart from Britton) lack vision, guile and creativity
Our defence drops at least two rickets every game and our goalkeeper one every other game
Hammer someone, two 1-0 wins on the trot seems utopia to me at present!

It does actually say:

Once we actually come into form, there's a strong possibility that we are going to hammer someone. And I mean proper hammer them.

Meaning, we are currently out of form and things will get better. Our squad of players are more than capable of handing out a beating and "Possibly" a big one

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Our squad of players are more than capable of handing out a beating and "Possibly" a big one

They're not Kopped. Thats a massively optimistic view. I have every faith we will turn things around long term but to suggest the current squad is capable of pasting someone.....well I cant see any reason to agree with you.

We've scored five goals and haven't managed more than one in a game. Our midfield is horribly unbalanced and we're struggling to create any decent chances. The best we can hope to do at the moment is chip away at the oppo to pinch a goal and keep it as tight as possible at the back.

We have a huge amount of work and recruitment to undertake until we have a team that can win games convincingly. United wont be hammering anyone this side of Christmas I can assure you.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Meaning, we are currently out of form and things will get better. Our squad of players are more than capable of handing out a beating and "Possibly" a big one

Of course it is possible to get a big win at some stage, but if the line up below are going to consistently score many goals they will have to make a sudden improvement of their goal records:

Simonsen -0
Calve - 0
Bartley - 0
Nosworthy - 0
Jordan -0
Ertl - 0
Britton - 0
Montgomery -1
Cresswell - 12
Quinn - 4
Evans - 4

(Taken from another post, goal tallies from last season).

 

[Bramley]

Is positivity more correct than negativity? Is "the goals will come, have faith" any more accurate than "the goals won't come, don't have faith"?

Now, there may be a couple of wind ups on here, and although genuine views are probably behind it, opinions become polarised and people disagree for the sake of it.

I really enjoy discussing what we could be doing to get it right, to improve, and it's why I use message boards for. I always worry about us not doing things the right way, but I also have the view that there is often only a few changes needed to turn things around. Football fans should expect to go through different mental states, and worrying is a surely a lot better than apathy?

Ah but where you Bergen identify a recognised problem and outline a considered solution, others identify the problem over and over again every day, ad nauseum. Then it no longer actually represents debate.