It's not Hammond fault

[LoughboroBlade]

He has made some good tackles and blocks that seem to have gone unnoticed but he has also let players get away from him which has at times been costly. Millwall’s 2nd goal. Worcester’s best chance and Walsall’s goal at the weekend were contributed to by Hammond’s midfielder getting away from him to get a cross in.

Which reminds me, on the Cambridge highlights, Kennedy on his debut didn't exactly look impressive – not sure how his performance was received (Roygbiv will no doubt be monitoring closely), but he looked off the pace and out of position on the three goals conceded. Something again you wouldn't have expected given his performances for us.

There are a number of reasons why Hammond has so far been a bit disappointing:
- unfit
- yet to adjust to the move
- yet to adjust to his teammates
- yet to adjust to change in leagues
- Adkins not playing to his strengths
- system not suited to his game
- trying too hard
- no longer the player he was

Adkins is surely a good judge of what his role should be, so I think the style of play can be ruled out. Perhaps it's something that will work out in time, but certainly so far it's a bit of a mystery. I'm hoping he's just got a case of the Bashams from last season.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

McCall was still class but would he have been the same player without Brown, Tonge, Nuddy on top of their game and players banging in the goals ahead of him ?

Jury's still out on Hammond but if he had more attacking options around him he could get on with doing the job he was brought in to do.

 

[BushBlade]

I think that’s a fair assessment. With his CV and reputation we expected him dropping to this level to be like when we signed McCall or Speed and that he’s stand out with his extra quality and experience. In reality, he just looks an OK League 1 DM. He has made some good tackles and blocks that seem to have gone unnoticed but he has also let players get away from him which has at times been costly. Millwall’s 2nd goal. Worcester’s best chance and Walsall’s goal at the weekend were contributed to by Hammond’s midfielder getting away from him to get a cross in. But for me, we need to get back to something like the set up we had at home to Fleetwood. Hammond and Basham sat deep in midfield protecting the back 4 and let the wingers and forwards carry the attacking threat (with some help from the full backs). I’d have Adams wide and Sammon up front but otherwise, that’s how I’d like us to set up. 2 CMs who play deep and 2 wingers and strikers who are encouraged to bring the attack with the full backs also allowed to get forward.

It does seem that we expected Speed or McCall but I'm not sure why. They were both class players who played most of their careers at a high level. Hammond is a championship player who had a couple of goes in the PL. He came to us having not played this season. Surely it's asking a lot to expect him to hit the ground running?
He's the replacement for Doyle, nothing more. And there were plenty of threads on here moaning that we hadn't replaced him, some even saying we should have kept him.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Against Walsall we dropped very deep and struggled to get close to the Walsall midfielders

Honest question. Do you think the reason we are playing so deep is because our midfield is so weak, our goalkeepers are so unreliable or our defence has not got enough pace in it to play a higher line. Either way we seem to be inviting people onto us playing so deep. I suspect the weaknesses are multiplying with each other to produce so many goals against.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It does seem that we expected Speed or McCall but I'm not sure why. They were both class players who played most of their careers at a high level. Hammond is a championship player who had a couple of goes in the PL. He came to us having not played this season. Surely it's asking a lot to expect him to hit the ground running?
He's the replacement for Doyle, nothing more. And there were plenty of threads on here moaning that we hadn't replaced him, some even saying we should have kept him.

But we are a division lower. I don't think it's that unreasonable that some might expect an experienced upper championship player to have a similar impact in League 1 to that of an experienced premier league player in the championship. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have that level of influence and quality. That doesn't mean he's atrocious as some like to make out.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Trust Nige on this one, I'd say (as least for a fair while yet). Hammond growing into a highly useful player for us after his ropiest of ropy starts would be far from being a one-off.

Thinking Bash was an utter clown at the start of last season, & then seeing him grow into our best, most effective midfielder by the tail end of the season hints that many of us just might be taught a bit of a lesson in humble pie-eating humility here. Hopefully we will. We need Hammond to succeed given how much faith the manager's invested in him.

 

[BushBlade]

But we are a division lower. I don't think it's that unreasonable that some might expect an experienced upper championship player to have a similar impact in League 1 to that of an experienced premier league player in the championship. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have that level of influence and quality. That doesn't mean he's atrocious as some like to make out.

The difference between L1 and the championship isn't as great as the difference between the championship and the PL. Didn't Speed play in the champions league?
And what exactly was Speed's impact when he joined us? Didn't save Robson's job.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

The difference between L1 and the championship isn't as great as the difference between the championship and the PL. Didn't Speed play in the champions league?
And what exactly was Speed's impact when he joined us? Didn't save Robson's job.

You are arguably correct. However, McCall had previously been at Bradford flitting between PL and championship and added a similar level of control to our midfield. Both were also older than Hammond when they were signed. Hammond hasn't showed signs of bringing that control to our midfield so far and maybe it was too much to expect. The lack of balance in the midfield around him doesn't help either. the issue for me is that some people fail to see the shades of grey and treat things as black and white in thinking he's not had the sort of impact that Speed or McCall did so he must be crap.

No Speed didn't save Robson's job but it was clear that he was quality as soon as he came into the team.

 

[AlienBlade]

Adkins, in his post match interview, stated that Hammond had done a huge amount of work and stated that many people don't see this effort and activity for the team. He clearly feels that Hammond is a key member of his first XI.
Don't expect him to be dropped at all.
Expect him to be signed in January on a permanent
He is a player that Adkins trusts, implicitly.
He will be the heart of our midfield for a long time to come, at the very least, whilst Adkins is in charge.

Now ,the key question: are:
Does Hammond add value to the team?
Does he drive us on?
Does he dictate the pace?
Does he protect the back four?
Is he the captain we need?

Does Hammond add value to the team? it's like playing with 10 men...No
Does he drive us on? he spends most of the time passing backwards and sidewards sometimes clean out of play..No
Does he dictate the pace? if going backwards or sidewards at a slow rate is what we want then Yes.... if it's going forward and changing things up then No
Does he protect the back four? Considering we are still leaking goals No
Is he the captain we need? to be fair to him he does like to point and tell people what to do...although considering he doesnt seem to know what to do himself I would say No

 

[AlienBlade]

A fair assessment, though for the header the ball.was behind him.

At the moment he's an improvement on say Doyle but given the reputation, expense, and tbf *achievements*, it might be reasonable to expect (a lot) more, and more consistently.

Early days. I can't see Adkins or Hammond(?) being sentimental if there's not been a noticeable improvement by January.

His main crime in the eyes of the haters and the miserati seems to be that he's not single-handedly winning games for us.

I wouldnt say he was an improvement on Doyle, Doyle passed sideways and backwards, and offerered more of a bite in the middle... at least the opposition knew he was there... the 2 tackles I saw on Saturday one was so late it resulted in a yellow card... (hardly a great ratio for a defensive midfielder) as I have also said he did 4 positive things on Saturday (there was a header, a tackle a pass forward and something else which escapes me)

he was often found marking a very dangerous piece of grass in the middle of the park... offering little, his reading of the game (remember he is supposed to be a defensive midfielder..) is poor meaning the defence (which he is supposed to be protecting is often left exposed... they hit the bar twice, had a cross come shot swirl in front of the net which long left (I had my heart in my mouth at that point) they got SEVENTEEN shots on goal... how can a team with not just 1 but two defencive midfielders in the side allow players to stroll through the middle and shoot SEVENTEEN times... it's not like they are Barcelona, we just simply arent putting a tackle in... and if Adkins had the Opta stats to show how well he did... surely he would have published them to prove his point (considering he mentioned something similar in his interrview)

 

[finlaytheblade]

Does Hammond add value to the team? it's like playing with 10 men...No
Does he drive us on? he spends most of the time passing backwards and sidewards sometimes clean out of play..No
Does he dictate the pace? if going backwards or sidewards at a slow rate is what we want then Yes.... if it's going forward and changing things up then No
Does he protect the back four? Considering we are still leaking goals No
Is he the captain we need? to be fair to him he does like to point and tell people what to do...although considering he doesnt seem to know what to do himself I would say No

According to you alien he shouldn't be playing professional football at all.,and been captain at three clubs!! You must know more about football than all the managers he's played for. Come on get a grip!!he maybe past his best but Adkins things he can do a job for us give him a bit of time .He's come into a midfield which is unbalanced to say the least, can't beleave some of the trash posters are putting on here at present foxy over to you!!.

 

[AlienBlade]

This seems like a more.legitimate.concern: he's often a fraction late.

Even this is an improvement on Doyle who, although he saw the danger unfold, has only just got across to Nathan Byrne in the play-off first leg.

I find it interesting you are willing to stand up for Hammond... and claim everything is about the team... yet for others such as Doyle.. it's soley his fault?

 

[finlaytheblade]

I find it interesting you are willing to stand up for Hammond... and claim everything is about the team... yet for others such as Doyle.. it's soley his fault?

I have never been critical of Doyle on this site I wasn't his biggest fan but he put a shift in,you must be getting me mixed up with some other poster,anyway lay off alien and support the team and that includes hammond.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Honest question. Do you think the reason we are playing so deep is because our midfield is so weak, our goalkeepers are so unreliable or our defence has not got enough pace in it to play a higher line. Either way we seem to be inviting people onto us playing so deep. I suspect the weaknesses are multiplying with each other to produce so many goals against.

I think our current midfield isn't capable of playing a high pressing game. It not just Coutts and Hammond, who are both slow and poor/mediocre at closing down. JCR, Adams and Baxter aren't really built for this type of game either, they'd ideally like to conserve energy to use it offensively instead. To avoid fitter opposition players running straight through us, we drop deeper.

If the team remains the same tonight I think we'll try to dominate possession like we managed against Fleetwood and Worcester. If that's successful depends a lot on the approach of the Shrewsbury team, whether they'll also be in awe of playing at Bramall Lane, or if they've identified our weaknesses and have the quality to punish them.

 

[AlienBlade]

According to you alien he shouldn't be playing professional football at all.,and been captain at three clubs!! You must know more about football than all the managers he's played for. Come on get a grip!!he maybe past his best but Adkins things he can do a job for us give him a bit of time .He's come into a midfield which is unbalanced to say the least, can't beleave some of the trash posters are putting on here at present foxy over to you!!.

maybe we shoudl get Jack Charton in for January.. after all he's scored plenty of goals in other seasons... the way he is playing for us at the moment is not good enough, there have been plenty of knockers of other players which Nigel hasnt jumped to their defence, so why single out one player to jump in front of the bus for?

and you hit the nail on the head... "past his best" how much time would you like him to be given.... 10 games 20 games? a whole season? 5 season (like Collins) and the midfield is unbalance becuase Adkins wont play players in correct positions... (he has Martyn Woolford, a player he brought in, who is a left winger not even getting on bench most times,.. he has central midfielders playing in defence... central midfilders playing on the wing... however I dont care what the set ups are... most of the players according to Adkins are not "fit"

answer me this... should a 3 times captain who has played in the premiership pass the ball aimless out of play not once... but twice... (I mean I can do that... doesnt make me a premiership player... in fact I have only done it once this season maybe I am Champions League...)

(and I couldnt care if he had won the nobel peace prize in his previous 3 clubs as that has zero benefit to the blades)

he is currently doing nothing to suggest he is a player that offers this club anything we didnt already have... I am clealry not the only one to think it...

I also dont appriciate Adkins telling me or other fans we just simply arent looking at what he does... I was a great defender of Doyle... so I know what the dirty jobs are in the midfield, he just simply doesnt do them...

Great players can adapt to anything, maybe I am being too simplistic in what I expect from a professional footballer let alone one who is supposed to be "premiership class"...

I am going to attempt to take a video (or photos) of Hammond's position when the opposition are on the attack (you would expect a midfielder to be tracking back... or picking up a player to mark... on far too many occassions he sits in the midfield marking blades of grass allowing players to pass round him with ease. I am not the only one seeing and mentioning it.. so I know it's not just my imagination!

 

[AlienBlade]

I have never been critical of Doyle on this site I wasn't his biggest fan but he put a shift in,you must be getting me mixed up with some other poster,anyway lay off alien and support the team and that includes hammond.

can you point to where I said you were critical of Doyle?? I actually said I was a great defender of Doyle... this was in rerference to Adkins telling fans "we dont see what Hammond does, all the interceptions, keeping the ball ticking over etc.. ad nauseam. so maybe you should actually read what is being said rather that accusing people of doing things they haven't in deflect not answering a question.

if a player is constantly giving away penalties... or not doing his job... is it not better for the "team" for him to be ommitted... no one man is grerater than the team (yet Adkins is making Hammond out to be greater than the team by sticking by him despite his form which is having a direct impact on our form!

you also failed to answer my question... how long would you give him... 10 games... 20 games the whole season 5 seasons... at what point do we consider he isnt working out...

he looks less fit that James Wallace for heavens sake... (surely the number of games he has played should mean he is now considered "match fit" it's not like he had just come back from a major injury).

I am more than happy to be proved wrong by him... unfortunately in the short term him being in midfield is costsing us! 1 league win in 5 games! look at his ratings on here!

 

[mattbianco1]

It's not Hammond's fault that Adkins keeps picking him. But all the same I can't think of any better way to get the message across that we don't want him in the team than too boo him? What else can we do?

He is either a journey man or we signed the wrong player.

Some people puzzle the fuck out of me, Dean Hammond has played 5 league games. We have only won one of those games. How on earth is that his fault? There are 10 other players on the pitch.

Maybe he's like that guy Montgomery that was that fans didn't like because they didn't see what he offered to the team. Despite him being shite (apparently), he chalked up 350 appearances under multiple managers. Maybe he's like that bloke Michael Doyle?

 

[TonyAgana]

The lad's come from a premier league team so must have some quality about him

... a myth dispelled time and again by Sheffield United Football Club.

 

[TonyAgana]

If that's successful depends a lot on the approach of the Shrewsbury team, whether they'll also be in awe of playing at Bramall Lane, or if they've identified our weaknesses and have the quality to punish them.

So a toss-up, then?

 

[TonyAgana]

Some people puzzle the fuck out of me, Dean Hammond has played 5 league games. We have only won one of those games. How on earth is that his fault? There are 10 other players on the pitch.

Maybe he's like that guy Montgomery that was that fans didn't like because they didn't see what he offered to the team. Despite him being shite (apparently), he chalked up 350 appearances under multiple managers. Maybe he's like that bloke Michael Doyle?

Pretty sure both Monty and Doyle's win ratio was more than 1 in 5, Matt.

 

[JasonEllis]

I wouldnt say he was an improvement on Doyle, Doyle passed sideways and backwards, and offerered more of a bite in the middle... at least the opposition knew he was there... the 2 tackles I saw on Saturday one was so late it resulted in a yellow card... (hardly a great ratio for a defensive midfielder) as I have also said he did 4 positive things on Saturday (there was a header, a tackle a pass forward and something else which escapes me

I agree. I don't think many people thought seriously that he would come in and be the league one Xavi, passing the ball about hither and thither, or the League one Makelele, providing an effective barrier and springboard between the attack and defence, but I think people at least thought that given his pedigree he would be an improvement on what we had.

If he was meant to be an improvement on Doyle then IMO he has failed at this so far. That isn't to say that he can't/won't improve, but on current showings so far I would prefer Doyle in the side. I hope that it is just him finding his feet at a new club.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Does Hammond add value to the team? it's like playing with 10 men...No
Does he drive us on? he spends most of the time passing backwards and sidewards sometimes clean out of play..No
Does he dictate the pace? if going backwards or sidewards at a slow rate is what we want then Yes.... if it's going forward and changing things up then No
Does he protect the back four? Considering we are still leaking goals No
Is he the captain we need? to be fair to him he does like to point and tell people what to do...although considering he doesnt seem to know what to do himself I would say No

1. Fleetwood at home (his debut) was the first game where we’ve not looked easy to play through in midfield. He offers more protection to the back 4 in terms of positioning, intercepting, tackling and when necessary fouling.


2. Most of the time, I would say no. He did play a sublime ball for Adams for the pen that never was at Walsall but his passing is not great and he doesn’t really run with the ball so I would say on balance, no.


3. I think to some degree, him and Coutts are dictating the pace. The problem is, the pace they are dictating is walking pace much of the time.


4. For me yes. Not perfectly but there have been some really good tackles and fouls where he’s taken one for the team to break things up. His inability to pick up runners at times is worrying but I think he offers more protection for the defence than any of our other midfielders. When he and Basham played CM in a 442, the back 4 was very well protected.


5. Difficult to say. Having captained other teams to promotions and having such a reputation for an exemplary attitude, I’d be inclined to say yes but most managers would agree that it’s not about who has the armband. The majority need to go out there with captain mentalities. I often bring it back to this but Warnock at QPR is an example. He gave Taraabt the armband despite him being a petulant child. He called his senior players into a meeting (Clint Hill, Shaun Derry, Paddy Kenny etc.) and told them they were the real captains of the team but he needed to give Taraabt the armband to instill a greater sense of responsibility in him and to get the best out of him. I’d suggest Hammond is one of those senior players with the right attitude to be a captain.

 

[BushBlade]

can you point to where I said you were critical of Doyle?? I actually said I was a great defender of Doyle... this was in rerference to Adkins telling fans "we dont see what Hammond does, all the interceptions, keeping the ball ticking over etc.. ad nauseam. so maybe you should actually read what is being said rather that accusing people of doing things they haven't in deflect not answering a question.

if a player is constantly giving away penalties... or not doing his job... is it not better for the "team" for him to be ommitted... no one man is grerater than the team (yet Adkins is making Hammond out to be greater than the team by sticking by him despite his form which is having a direct impact on our form!

you also failed to answer my question... how long would you give him... 10 games... 20 games the whole season 5 seasons... at what point do we consider he isnt working out...

he looks less fit that James Wallace for heavens sake... (surely the number of games he has played should mean he is now considered "match fit" it's not like he had just come back from a major injury).

I am more than happy to be proved wrong by him... unfortunately in the short term him being in midfield is costsing us! 1 league win in 5 games! look at his ratings on here!

At least ten games. It can take that long to get properly match fit which he wasn't anywhere near because he's played no competive games this season before he joined us (and some would say since).

Common sense would indicate Adkins will give him until January and if he shows what he showed at Leicester and Saints he'll make it permanent. If he doesn't, he'll send him back.

 

[robbiez666]

I remember we used to have a right back called Kevin Gage.

He was bloody awful when he first signed. 2 ft 3, headed the ball up in the air in random directions, most of his passes went out of play or to the opposition, shanked loads of clearances, weak and couldn't tackle.

I used to give him so much grief.

But the, one day, from out of nowhere he got good. Started scoring and became one of the best defenders.

I'm hoping this will happen with Hammond.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Common sense would indicate Adkins will give him until January and if he shows what he showed at Leicester and Saints he'll make it permanent. If he doesn't, he'll send him back.

This will be the test I think: will we invest (and it's a substantial investment) in him in January?

I think the case for or against might be clearer by then - though clearly some will be against, no matter what.

 

[BushBlade]

This will be the test I think: will we invest (and it's a substantial investment) in him in January?

I think the case for or against might be clearer by then - though clearly some will be against, no matter what.

So far, on the pitch, he's not shown he's worth substantial investment. I'd guess we'd be paying £750k for his wages for a year and a half plus add-ons.
Surely we could sign someone from this level who is several years younger and just as effective as a holding midfielder on less than half that in wages (meaning we could spend a transfer fee of around £350-400k)?
I want him to do well but we shouldn't be paying over the odds for a holding midfielder unless he can pass like Carrick. Not unless we're prepared to match that type of spending on creative and attacking players. And, unless he's a real leader, because I'm not sure how you can value leadership but it does seem quite a rare commodity these days.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

So far, on the pitch, he's not shown he's worth substantial investment. I'd guess we'd be paying £750k for his wages for a year and a half plus add-ons.
Surely we could sign someone from this level who is several years younger and just as effective as a holding midfielder on less than half that in wages (meaning we could spend a transfer fee of around £350-400k)?
I want him to do well but we shouldn't be paying over the odds for a holding midfielder unless he can pass like Carrick. Not unless we're prepared to match that type of spending on creative and attacking players. And, unless he's a real leader, because I'm not sure how you can value leadership but it does seem quite a rare commodity these days.

There's also the fact that he's a known quantity to Adkins and not a speculative punt.

All needs factoring in.

Atm he's not made his case.

 

[BushBlade]

There's also the fact that he's a known quantity to Adkins and not a speculative punt.

All needs factoring in.

Atm he's not made his case.

I think I've heard him being called a speculative punt. Sounded like that anyway.

 

[Gavlar]

Yep, I agree with some of that 'fatty' but what about his 'non tackle' for their goal - it was an abysmal attempt at a block. If it had been poor old Collins (who incidentally had a very good game Saturday) folk on here would have had him hung up by his balls.

Wot like Collins shocking non-challenge on their 2nd goal you mean?

 

[JasonEllis]

Wot like Collins shocking non-challenge on their 2nd goal you mean?

What second goal, wasn't it 1-1?