It's not Hammond fault

[DronnieBlade]

The evidence I have seen suggests that Hammonds legs have gone.

Maybe Santa can get him a new pair !!

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Pathetic challenge though leading to their goal.

And no marking at the back post. Conceding is a team effort.

Should he have been isolated in the LB position? If not who was absent?

Labelling one individual's contribution pathetic really seems to miss the point.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Yep, I agree with some of that 'fatty' but what about his 'non tackle' for their goal - it was an abysmal attempt at a block. If it had been poor old Collins (who incidentally had a very good game Saturday) folk on here would have had him hung up by his balls.

As posted elsewhere it's a team effort.

From memory Coutts is wandering back on the edge of the box, there are plenty of bodies around - Hammond is isolated in the LB position. Others might not be doing their jobs.

And there's no marking at the back post.

I don't think focusing on one good or bad thing is helpful in assessing any player's contribution - but it's the game we tend to play.
The cliche is it takes two mistakes to concede.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

The evidence I have seen suggests that Hammonds legs have gone.

Maybe Santa can get him a new pair !!

UTB

This seems like a more.legitimate.concern: he's often a fraction late.

Even this is an improvement on Doyle who, although he saw the danger unfold, has only just got across to Nathan Byrne in the play-off first leg.

 

[longinthe toothblade]

As posted elsewhere it's a team effort.

From memory Coutts is wandering back on the edge of the box, there are plenty of bodies around - Hammond is isolated in the LB position. Others might not be doing their jobs.

And there's no marking at the back post.

I don't think focusing on one good or bad thing is helpful in assessing any player's contribution - but it's the game we tend to play.
The cliche is it takes two mistakes to concede.

My mistake

 

[longinthe toothblade]

Pathetic challenge though leading to their goal.

What challenge was that?

 

[finlaytheblade]

I know it probably comes across as me having a go at Hammond all the time (I have done tbf) but do we really pay upwards of 10k a week just 'to put a shift in'? Surely it's a basic requirement to offer a bit more than that. To me he offers zero going forward and based on some of the goals we've shipped recently little defensively. Nick Montgomery ran around like a headless chicken for all those years and was derided by many on here but Hammond makes him look like a total footballer.

To put it bluntly we should be expecting MUCH more for someone we're paying so much for. We could've feasibly had two or three players with something to prove for similar wages.

It's obvious you just follow the ball without seeing what goes on around it there are a number of players around that do what hammond and
Monty ,Doyle do and they don't get appreciated by the fans.All three have had great careers playing under numerous managers does that tell you something?.Professionals understand the nitty gritty of the game and us as fans don't see what the pro,s see ,I admit to not always appreciating them myself. It would be interesting to here what Bergen feels about the pluses and minus of these kind of players they are definitely on the shopping list of most managers

 

[longinthe toothblade]

The day the loudest fans pick the team, is the day we start an even worse downward spiral.

Does that go for the 'loudest' on here?

 

[derryblade]

Players not doing or unable to do their job is a recurring theme match after match and probably the main reason we can't put any sort of winning run together. It's not exactly rocket science, it's the basics, marking at set plays, going with runners making tackles and finding space and movement with and without the ball. Yet it happens week in week out with little sign of it changing no matter what team he puts out.

 

[Grecian2000]

The day the loudest fans pick the team, is the day we start an even worse downward spiral.

Really?

It seems they got the manager sorted in the summer, surely picking the team is the natural progression to that.

 

[Wards]

Manuel Neuer would offer very little going forward.

It depends what his job is.

If it's running round preventing things happening like a measles vaccine on legs then it's not reasonable to expect much going forwards - and this was reflected in Roygbiv's View From.

But he was captain of at least one promotion winning team so either he's crap and this forum is full of tactical geniuses, or we might be missing something.

Might be his job is stopping the opposition and letting others play.

Sounds like a few people are disappointed we didn't sign Pirlo. We might have Makelele instead.

Or we might not.

His and Adkins' credentials say look closely and give him time.

To put it another way - what is his job? Is it to stop other teams from playing? If so he's failing (along with others, granted). Is it to stop teams finding space inbetween our lines? Again, he's done little to address that as we're shipping goals from many similar positions. At the moment I'm not seeing one thing he's doing exceptionally well that couldn't be done by someone else to the same degree of success - and the results over the past month suggest as much. I gather he's likely to be THE highest paid player in the division, outside of whatever ridiculous wages Wigan are paying. Do you honestly see him performing to a standard that justifies that? He's now had 4 or 5 games to regain sharpness and has looked no fitter than he did in his first appearance. He can't get close to a man, he can't shield effectively underpinned by a lack of mobility and he sure as shit can't do much when on the ball. A complete disaster as far as I'm concerned - no better than what we have already. I'm not disappointed we haven't signed Pirlo, I merely expected someone who could provide a greater contribution. For 10k pw I expect someone who can stamp authority on a game, take it by the scruff of the neck and exert some leadership qualities. Underwhelmed and totally disheartening to what appears, so far, to be a profound waste of resource. Again.

Hope he proves me wrong.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

On a fairly (ok very) superficial level three stand out (for good or evil) contributions:

their six yard box - missed header
centre spot - pass to Adams
our six yard box(ish) - non-tackle/block

That's the length of the pitch - and the bit on the middle too. Looks like he is putting himself about, could do with doing better when he gets there though.

Do we have another midfielder who would have been in all three positions?

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

Im sure the same idiots that booed Baxter earlier in the season for attempted to pass the ball will give Hammond the same treatement.

Hammond may not be good enough, but I'm prepared to give him a bit of time to see.

 

[Wards]

On a fairly (ok very) superficial level three stand out (for good or evil) contributions:

their six yard box - missed header
centre spot - pass to Adams
our six yard box(ish) - non-tackle/block

That's the length of the pitch - and the bit on the middle too. Looks like he is putting himself about, could do with doing better when he gets there though.

Do we have another midfielder who would have been in all three positions?

I'd be inclined to say a fully fit (you can laugh here!) James Wallace could do all three of these. Not only that but he has the aggression to break play up and an eye to pick a pass. I'm sure there are players out there known to our scouting network that can fulfill one or two of these roles to a better standard? I can 100% appreciate that Hammond has been successful for Adkins in the past and I have no qualms about him trusting someone like that - just the evidence so far suggests he isn't going to be a worthwhile signing for us based on the outlay. I'm not convinced that spending such a chunk of wages on someone who's main focus is to effectively 'mark space' and to try and exert some physical presence is worthwhile.

He gets my full support, as do all the players come match day. Serious questions over his continued selection and effectiveness remain for me though.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

And no marking at the back post. Conceding is a team effort.

Should he have been isolated in the LB position? If not who was absent?

Labelling one individual's contribution pathetic really seems to miss the point.

You make some good points William but his challenge was pathetic, as was the marking of Bradshaw.

 

[him behind you]

Pathetic challenge though leading to their goal.

Give you that one

 

[chipsncake]

Im sure the same idiots that booed Baxter earlier in the season for attempted to pass the ball will give Hammond the same treatement.

Hammond may not be good enough, but I'm prepared to give him a bit of time to see.

Nothing wrong at all with giving a player time but the patronising way Adkins is "bigging" him up is embarrassing.

 

[Bergen Blade]

It's obvious you just follow the ball without seeing what goes on around it there are a number of players around that do what hammond and
Monty ,Doyle do and they don't get appreciated by the fans.All three have had great careers playing under numerous managers does that tell you something?.Professionals understand the nitty gritty of the game and us as fans don't see what the pro,s see ,I admit to not always appreciating them myself. It would be interesting to here what Bergen feels about the pluses and minus of these kind of players they are definitely on the shopping list of most managers

I'd like to focus on the team's balance, rather than how good individual players are. At the moment I think our midfield is struggling. Against Walsall we dropped very deep and struggled to get close to the Walsall midfielders, let alone getting tackles in to stop them. Gegenpressing is not possible with the selection we have currently.

On paper there are probably things that Adkins is quite keen on. Energetic full backs providing width, a couple of experienced six footers in deep midfield, Baxter cutting in from the right to use his creativity, JCR attacking his full back on the other side, Sharp paired with a mobile and quick guy... And yet we look nowhere good enough, mainly due to a defensively weak midfield that allows the opposition to do too much and fails to make us play a high tempo game.

Against Walsall we looked more dangerous when Sammon came on, Scougall added a bit of pressing and we went more direct.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I'd like to focus on the team's balance, rather than how good individual players are. At the moment I think our midfield is struggling. Against Walsall we dropped very deep and struggled to get close to the Walsall midfielders, let alone getting tackles in to stop them. Gegenpressing is not possible with the selection we have currently.

On paper there are probably things that Adkins is quite keen on. Energetic full backs providing width, a couple of experienced six footers in deep midfield, Baxter cutting in from the right to use his creativity, JCR attacking his full back on the other side, Sharp paired with a mobile and quick guy... And yet we look nowhere good enough, mainly due to a defensively weak midfield that allows the opposition to do too much and fails to make us play a high tempo game.

Against Walsall we looked more dangerous when Sammon came on, Scougall added a bit of pressing and we went more direct.

Agree with that bergen but pressing starts from the front and although sharp does his share Adams and Campbell -rice don't do it effectively at all and the way Walsall pass and move we had no option but to sit deep as otherwise we would be ripped open more often than we were.
Adkins commented on the work ethic of Hammond ,with the GPS monitor s that players are allowed to where now the stats for the whole team (ground covered and sprints done)would be interesting compared to the opposition ,for me lack of legs has been our main problem the entire time we have been in this division.if there's one thing that most teams have in this division it's athletism compared to us,we compare favourably on football ability .With pace and power we would be a lot harder animal to contain ,I hope Mr Adkins can find this in the J t w.

 

[BushBlade]

Agree with that bergen but pressing starts from the front and although sharp does his share Adams and Campbell -rice don't do it effectively at all and the way Walsall pass and move we had no option but to sit deep as otherwise we would be ripped open more often than we were.
Adkins commented on the work ethic of Hammond ,with the GPS monitor s that players are allowed to where now the stats for the whole team (ground covered and sprints done)would be interesting compared to the opposition ,for me lack of legs has been our main problem the entire time we have been in this division.if there's one thing that most teams have in this division it's athletism compared to us,we compare favourably on football ability .With pace and power we would be a lot harder animal to contain ,I hope Mr Adkins can find this in the J t w.

Personally I think it's pointless Billy pressing on his own. Either all press or none do and we stifle them in deeper areas. It's a waste of energy if Billy presses on his own, the defender can just lay the ball off.
And I don't understand why we're not going more direct and playing Sammon if we're playing 442. You can't play through the midfield when the opposition plays five in theirs, not with the players we have.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Personally I think it's pointless Billy pressing on his own. Either all press or none do and we stifle them in deeper areas. It's a waste of energy if Billy presses on his own, the defender can just lay the ball off.
And I don't understand why we're not going more direct and playing Sammon if we're playing 442. You can't play through the midfield when the opposition plays five in theirs, not with the players we have.

To right BushBlade we can't press effectively so we are pushed back by a team who have good rotation and keep the ball well.
so maybe Adkins will change his preferred way of playing until he can bring in the players to make it work.
Pace is not essential in every position (but it helps) there are area,s where it scares the opposition to death and we don't have it.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Adkins, in his post match interview, stated that Hammond had done a huge amount of work and stated that many people don't see this effort and activity for the team. He clearly feels that Hammond is a key member of his first XI.
Don't expect him to be dropped at all.
Expect him to be signed in January on a permanent
He is a player that Adkins trusts, implicitly.
He will be the heart of our midfield for a long time to come, at the very least, whilst Adkins is in charge.

Now ,the key question: are:
Does Hammond add value to the team?
Does he drive us on?
Does he dictate the pace?
Does he protect the back four?
Is he the captain we need?

He might be the next Collins, five years in the wilderness.

 

[Godbeblade]

The lad's come from a premier league team so must have some quality about him, whether he goes back to Leicester and gets sold on to someone like Ipswich is yet to be seen but I reckon once he finds his feet he'll work for Adkins and the team (fingers crossed)...
Best case scenario- he helps us to a crazy winning streak and we storm up the table
Worst case- we stay where we are and spend this season dwindling in mid table and ship him back to Leicester after his loans finished

 

[alcoblade]

The lad's come from a premier league team so must have some quality about him, whether he goes back to Leicester and gets sold on to someone like Ipswich is yet to be seen but I reckon once he finds his feet he'll work for Adkins and the team (fingers crossed)...
Best case scenario- he helps us to a crazy winning streak and we storm up the table
Worst case- we stay where we are and spend this season dwindling in mid table and ship him back to Leicester after his loans finished

A worst case scenario is that he continues to be poor but we've already committed to buying him.

I'm still hopeful there's more to come.

UTB

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I'm still hopeful there's more to come.

When he signed I spoke to friends that support Southampton and Leicester and they couldn't have sung his praises more highly – the Leicester fan in particular was amazed we'd been able to get him. These are people that know their football too. I don't think I've ever seen a signing so highly recommended underwhelm in quite the manner he has done. It's not as though Adkins took a punt on someone he'd never worked with before.

 

[finlaytheblade]

When he signed I spoke to friends that support Southampton and Leicester and they couldn't have sung his praises more highly – the Leicester fan in particular was amazed we'd been able to get him. These are people that know their football too. I don't think I've ever seen a signing so highly recommended underwhelm in quite the manner he has done. It's not as though Adkins took a punt on someone he'd never worked with before.

I think if we as fans are looking at him as a Midfield player who's pleasing on the eye then we will be disappointed. A secret agent is more in keeping with his style( if you understand my meaning) these kind of players are unsung hero's and only get appreciated. when part of a succesful team( as soton and Leicester suggest).Being made captain should tell us a lot about him

 

[finlaytheblade]

I think if we as fans are looking at him as a Midfield player who's pleasing on the eye then we will be disappointed. A secret agent is more in keeping with his style( if you understand my meaning) these kind of players are unsung hero's and only get appreciated. when part of a succesful team( as soton and Leicester suggest).Being made captain should tell us a lot about him

What I meant to say was he was captain of his 3 previouse clubs

 

[super_pig]

It's obvious you just follow the ball without seeing what goes on around it there are a number of players around that do what hammond and
Monty ,Doyle do and they don't get appreciated by the fans.All three have had great careers playing under numerous managers does that tell you something?.Professionals understand the nitty gritty of the game and us as fans don't see what the pro,s see ,I admit to not always appreciating them myself. It would be interesting to here what Bergen feels about the pluses and minus of these kind of players they are definitely on the shopping list of most managers

yeah there was a queue of people to take all three of them.. not.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I must admit that I was surprised at the abuse he got on Saturday because I didn't think he was as bad as that. I actually decided to keep a close eye on him during the game to see if Adkins was right in his ongoing assessment of him or whether he was just blowing smoke up our arse's, and I've got to say that his work rate was excellent and he made a number of good challenges and blocks. Don't get me wrong, his distribution is not great so when he has the ball (which is when most people in reality notice him) he can look very poor but I'm beginning to think that he brings more than we think (certainly more than I thought before I "really" watched him on saturday). Maybe we (I) expected a different type of player because of all the hype who might be game changing (I hate that phrase) so have been more disappointed than normal and have therefore singled him out as the cause of everything that we do wrong . What is noticeable is that many of the comments, both on here and at the games, reflect a lot of what we use to say about Doyle, and I for one think we really miss him.

I think that’s a fair assessment. With his CV and reputation we expected him dropping to this level to be like when we signed McCall or Speed and that he’s stand out with his extra quality and experience. In reality, he just looks an OK League 1 DM. He has made some good tackles and blocks that seem to have gone unnoticed but he has also let players get away from him which has at times been costly. Millwall’s 2nd goal. Worcester’s best chance and Walsall’s goal at the weekend were contributed to by Hammond’s midfielder getting away from him to get a cross in. But for me, we need to get back to something like the set up we had at home to Fleetwood. Hammond and Basham sat deep in midfield protecting the back 4 and let the wingers and forwards carry the attacking threat (with some help from the full backs). I’d have Adams wide and Sammon up front but otherwise, that’s how I’d like us to set up. 2 CMs who play deep and 2 wingers and strikers who are encouraged to bring the attack with the full backs also allowed to get forward.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I know it probably comes across as me having a go at Hammond all the time (I have done tbf) but do we really pay upwards of 10k a week just 'to put a shift in'? Surely it's a basic requirement to offer a bit more than that. To me he offers zero going forward and based on some of the goals we've shipped recently little defensively. Nick Montgomery ran around like a headless chicken for all those years and was derided by many on here but Hammond makes him look like a total footballer.

To put it bluntly we should be expecting MUCH more for someone we're paying so much for. We could've feasibly had two or three players with something to prove for similar wages.

I have no idea how much of his wage we are paying. Do you know? Is that information publicly available? I disagree that he makes Monty look like a total footballer. He has some similar short-comings in that his passing is poor but I don’t think it’s as bad as Monty’s was but at the same time, I don’t think he offers as much in terms of harassing opposition as Monty did. I think he’s closer to Doyle. For me, he does enough to warrant a place in our team. I don’t like the combination of him and Coutts though. I’d play 2 from Hammond, Baxter and Basham in CM in a 442. For me, if Baxter is to earn a new deal, he needs to prove he can be an effective CM in a 442. If not, he’s a luxury that is good, but is not good enough to build your entire team around.