It can't get any worse.

[beightonblade]

McCabe who won't invest ............... cheap as chips who can't manage, a team that find playing football impossible and the club i love are imploding !

Years ago i questioned McCabes intentions and i was ridiculed........ well i'll tell yer sumat the Blades are fooked until he's gone. What a waste of money over the last few years .... perhaps on a par with the Labour lot !

Don't blame cheap as chips ..... McCabes the culprit.

 

[Micalijo]

Totally agree.

Just watched a bit of Manu Pompey on Sky and loved the 'Love Manu, hate Glazers' song that thousands joined in.

Different ways in which they've done it but McCabe and Glazers have ended up with similar football clubs ie gamble someone elses money on it.

 

[ken shabby]

As you`ve said rightly many times BB, Blackwell is a nice cosey cheap option. If mcabe had any real bollocks instead of his fancy pair of plastic made in china pair, he`d sack Blackwell & raid somewhere like Donny for a proper footballing manager. Thereby lifting the tactical level of our squad & also givng the fans a lift out of this tedious brain sapping monotone football watch we have at present

Blimey norwich did that early in the season to total consternation from colchester & look at `em now.


But Mccabe doesn`t want to spend his hard earned on owt to do with football. 10th spot here we come....

 

[beightonblade]

As you`ve said rightly many times BB, Blackwell is a nice cosey cheap option. If mcabe had any real bollocks instead of his fancy pair of plastic made in china pair, he`d sack Blackwell & raid somewhere like Donny for a proper footballing manager. Thereby lifting the tactical level of our squad & also givng the fans a lift out of this tedious brain sapping monotone football watch we have at present

Blimey norwich did that early in the season to total consternation from colchester & look at `em now.


But Mccabe doesn`t want to spend his hard earned on owt to do with football. 10th spot here we come....

so he shud do the reight thing and sell up as soon as possible...... he's soffocating us !

 

[DuncDisorderly]

so he shud do the reight thing and sell up as soon as possible...... he's soffocating us !

Well, it looks like our best option is to use our collective psychic powers to select the Euromillions winning numbers for next week (£115m by all accounts), and buy the club. Then we can see what a 'well run club' would look like.

Otherwise, we are relying on Beighton to get his wallet out...

 

[beightonblade]

Well, it looks like our best option is to use our collective psychic powers to select the Euromillions winning numbers for next week (£115m by all accounts), and buy the club. Then we can see what a 'well run club' would look like.

Otherwise, we are relying on Beighton to get his wallet out...

well DD ...... iv'e said before £50million with all the assets included that i wud expexct wudn't be a problem ! ..... but there might be sumat we know nowt about even after Sir Clevor Trevors little chat.

 

[dingledog]

It is indeed a sad situation we find ourselves in now BB. I am sure we dont know all the in's and out's of it all. I noticed McCabe slipping out of the Directors box with 5 mins to go when it looked like a defeat and the inevitable backlash that would follow.

The club is now in a worse position than for a long time. We have an owner who isnt prepared to do anymore on the playing side, a huge wage bill for a bunch of mediocre has beens who apparently wouldnt know how to play football even if they had ability, a manager who I am now convinced has not got a clue an assistant manager who does what?, I certainly dont know and and a set of supporters so angry with it all that the atmosphere at the lane is awful.

What to do? Well as BB so rightly pints out until Mr McCabe finds his way out, nothing is going to happen. it is clear he was only chasing the Tevez money for his own ends, it probably jsut about covers the interest payments due to him and had nothing to do with justice or fairness.

Luckily for me I am on holiday for the next game, thank the lord.

Its just the lot of Blades supporters really, it could only happen here,

 

[Muttley]

You mean McCabe was actually AT the match?????

 

[broomhillblade]

McCabe who won't invest ............... cheap as chips who can't manage, a team that find playing football impossible and the club i love are imploding !

Years ago i questioned McCabes intentions and i was ridiculed........ well i'll tell yer sumat the Blades are fooked until he's gone. What a waste of money over the last few years .... perhaps on a par with the Labour lot !

Don't blame cheap as chips ..... McCabes the culprit.

I still can't make my mind up whether McCabe had a master plan to use SUFC for his own ends or just got unlucky with the property market. However, you weren't the only one to sound a note of caution. Two or three years ago on the old BU site - when almost everyone was singing McCabe's praises - I cautioned that when things seem too good to be true, they usually are. The investment in foreign clubs has shown to be an expensive waste of time, from the football angle at least.

I've never met McCabe. He seems to be a decent guy, but for one who has made (and now lost?) squillions, he has shown remarkably poor judgment in his appointments. Turry, Robson and Blackwell are prime examples.

 

[lenners]

Well, it looks like our best option is to use our collective psychic powers to select the Euromillions winning numbers for next week (£115m by all accounts), and buy the club. Then we can see what a 'well run club' would look like.

Otherwise, we are relying on Beighton to get his wallet out...

Aye, that's the spirit.
None of us have been professional managers or players either so you all best shut up about them as well.
Don't say anything. Don't criticise. Don't question. You have no right.
When you're told McCabe's put £50m in, accept it.
When you think it's odd how much transfer fee income and money from Tevez there's been, shut it because you couldn't possibly understand.
When you query the interest levels our directors are charging, shut it. You just don't understand that's how directors are.
When you think it's odd that we have no monetary interest in Hungary and yet send resources over there, shut it. You couldn't possibly understand.
And so on and on.

 

[Foxy]

When you think it's odd how much transfer fee income and money from Tevez there's been, shut it because you couldn't possibly understand.

I wouldn't tell you to shut it, but i'd be interesting to know your understanding on how much exactly of all of these we've actually currently received and how much are due in the future?

When you query the interest levels our directors are charging, shut it. You just don't understand that's how directors are.

Again, I never told you to shut it, I asked you a further question about the ease of directors and their companies loaning, and what constraints they had on that... Which happened to be ignored again

Out of interest, how much do you suppose they'll bag off the interest rate that you disagree with? given that its only a small proportion of the overall loans?

 

[lenners]

I wouldn't tell you to shut it, but i'd be interesting to know your understanding on how much exactly of all of these we've actually currently received and how much are due in the future?



Again, I never told you to shut it, I asked you a further question about the ease of directors and their companies loaning, and what constraints they had on that... Which happened to be ignored again

Out of interest, how much do you suppose they'll bag off the interest rate that you disagree with? given that its only a small proportion of the overall loans?

I was actually responding to Dunc but seeing as you posted...
We get £20m from West Ham but around £2m has gone on legal fees so we are due around £18m. This was accounted for up front in the accounts even though we actually receive it over the next few years.
I don't understand your query about ease of directors and companies loaning.
We have a number of directors who've loaned money in a personal capacity.
Are you suggesting that either party was forced to decide the interest rate as it was?

 

[Foxy]

We get £20m from West Ham but around £2m has gone on legal fees so we are due around £18m. This was accounted for up front in the accounts even though we actually receive it over the next few years.

So when you say you think it's odd how much there has been, you mean it's odd that there hasn't been yet or?

I don't understand your query about ease of directors and companies loaning.
We have a number of directors who've loaned money in a personal capacity.
Are you suggesting that either party was forced to decide the interest rate as it was?

Yes, I am suggesting that. The interest rate isn't magically decided by the interest rate fairy There are many more reasons at play than picking a random number, in terms of a loan from a company, there are projections, scenarios, the rest of the company/directors input etc etc

I'd have to double check, but from memory, don't the personal directors loans amount to:

~£1.5m @ 10% from K McCabe
~£450k @ LIBOR (3months) + 4%

?

I'm not entirely sure what it said about the clubs debtors, care to let us know, and how these effect the financial picture?

 

[Nick Jansky]

Regarding McCabe selling up & moving on, be VERY careful what you wish for. Look at Pompey, Notts County & others. I think the only reason he hasn't sold up so far is that serious investors aren't exactly falling over themselves to put money into English football clubs at the moment.

Regarding directors loans into the club, that was almost certainly our only choice, and in that respect we are lucky that he had the wherewithal to do it. Banks are looking to reduce their exposure to football clubs at the moment as the whole game is lurching towards financial implosion. Don't be fooled by where the base rate is at the moment - if any financial institution could be persuaded to lend to us just now, (which is extremely unlikely) the interest rate would be hugely in excess of what McCabe is charging, to reflect the risk invoved. Some commercial deals I have seen over the last few months have had interest rates attached that would make your eyes water, and that is for much safer bets than a football club.

I think Birch has been brought in to give us the best possible chance of perhaps securing somebody like the chap who has turned Southampton around, but until that happens we are where we are. We can, and probably should, moan about it, but nothing is going to change. And I think we need to prepare ourselves for it to possibly take a very long time - we are competing with half the league for the few investors that are around. By their very nature, investors want to see a return, and its difficult to see how they will achieve that from football over the next few years, at least without wholesale asset stripping.......

 

[lenners]

Foxy, they're directors of the same ferkin company.
They're also the directors who've overseen us accumulating a £48m debt.
I would be embarrassed to take money out at those interest rates.
As for Tevez, I think it's odd that we have so much debt when we've essentially had four years of parachute payments and sold a tremendous amount of players.
We've consistently been told how well-run we are. The facts are now very obviously suggesting otherwise.
I know you're a loyalist and find these things difficult but I suspect there will be more and more questions over the coming months and more and more difficult answers.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I would be embarrassed to take money out at those interest rates.

They are receiving interest at a far lower rate than banks would look to charge us at the moment. Not saying its right or wrong, just making the point.

 

[Foxy]

As for Tevez, I think it's odd that we have so much debt when we've essentially had four years of parachute payments and sold a tremendous amount of players.

So you think that how much Tevez money there has been is odd, because of parachute payments and sales of players?

I know you're a loyalist and find these things difficult but I suspect there will be more and more questions over the coming months and more and more difficult answers.

I simply asked you some questions, I never said I thought they were right.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

I know we are all going around in circles on all this, but the figures just don't add up. How can we be so far in debt given the parachute payments, Tevez money, substantial player sales (has anyone sold more of their best players in the last 12 months?), 25,000+ crowds & the that fact we have one of the smallest squads in the Championship.

I'd love to see a clear breakdown of how we've got into this position.

It really is a shambles. Blackwell is out of his depth & McCabe doesn't appear to give a toss anymore.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I know we are all going around in circles on all this, but the figures just don't add up. How can we be so far in debt given the parachute payments, Tevez money, substantial player sales (has anyone sold more of their best players in the last 12 months?), 25,000+ crowds & the that fact we have one of the smallest squads in the Championship.

I'd love to see a clear breakdown of how we've got into this position.

It really is a shambles. Blackwell is out of his depth & McCabe doesn't appear to give a toss anymore.

On the football side of things we are only £2m in debt.

The rest has been incurred by building and buying things not necessarily connected to football. The value of these other assets has plummeted, hence we are fairly stuffed. Eventually the value of those assets will rise again, at which point we will look very healthy. But it could take a very long time. In the meantime, the football club will now have to live within its means. The lack of football debt means that it can start from a good base, compared to many others, once the remaining high earners are shipped out.

What is needed is a manager who will work properly with the Academy. The Academy could well prove to be our saving grace over the next few years, IF the right manager with the right philosophy and background in bringing young players through is in place. I happen to think that KB has had a thankless task, but having said that I am not sure he is the right man for what we are facing over the next few years.

 

[lenners]

So you think that how much Tevez money there has been is odd, because of parachute payments and sales of players?




I simply asked you some questions, I never said I thought they were right.

Foxy, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse but it is a bit tiresome.
Any club receiving a £20m Brucie bonus that's £48m in debt at the same time should rightly have a few questions asked.
Unfortunately, the Tevez money already appears to be being airbrushed out of history. It didn't even figure in the Birch interview.

 

[lenners]

Jansky,
I'm pretty sure the football club made a big profit last year - that's what (just about) propped up everything else.
Attempts to uncouple the two businesses like they're magically separate are ridiculous.

 

[Foxy]

Foxy, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse but it is a bit tiresome.
Any club receiving a £20m Brucie bonus that's £48m in debt at the same time should rightly have a few questions asked.

"Receiving", not received.

The reason that we are in debt, will have been substantially effected by our relegation from the Premier League and the costs that incurrs. The reason I asked you about our debtors, is that, one of them (West Ham United) is due to pay us (over time) their contribution towards this debt.

Unfortunately, the Tevez money already appears to be being airbrushed out of history. It didn't even figure in the Birch interview.

And where do you presume this money will be hidden?

One things for sure, it isn't going to be extracted in full by that 10% interest on a £1.5mil loan!

 

[Nick Jansky]

Jansky,
I'm pretty sure the football club made a big profit last year - that's what (just about) propped up everything else.
Attempts to uncouple the two businesses like they're magically separate are ridiculous.

But that is what groups of companies do, lenners. That is precisely why group structures operate, and transfer pricing policies and all the rest of it exists. They are separate, which is why they report as they do. They are under common ownership, but there are a lot of accounting regulations they have to observe about inter group transactions. So no, you are wrong to describe it as ridiculous. What would be ridiculous is to bundle everything up into just the one business.

What is happening is that the football business is now having to subsidise the rest, which is the exact opposite of what was intended. But if it wasn't for those directors loans, at the rates that they are at, we would be in a far worse position than we are in. Like it or not, them's the facts.

 

[lenners]

I know the ferkin facts, I'm questioning the ethics of directors who are unable to run a business without it getting into debt of £48m and unable to generate enough cash then deciding that their loans should warrant that level of interest.
Whether we could or couldn't have got different rates anywhere else is besides the point.

 

[lenners]

"Receiving", not received.

The reason that we are in debt, will have been substantially effected by our relegation from the Premier League and the costs that incurrs. The reason I asked you about our debtors, is that, one of them (West Ham United) is due to pay us (over time) their contribution towards this debt.



And where do you presume this money will be hidden?

One things for sure, it isn't going to be extracted in full by that 10% interest on a £1.5mil loan!

Jeez Foxy, where did I say it was going to be hidden?
And it's already accounted for, remember the 'profit' figure?

 

[beightonblade]

McCabe has got away with 'murder' at BDTBL ....... remember the de-listing ?

 

[Foxy]

Jeez Foxy, where did I say it was going to be hidden?

Umm.......

Unfortunately, the Tevez money already appears to be being airbrushed out of history.

I'm off to do some work, instead of going round in circles and changing tact every few minutes

 

[Nick Jansky]

I know the ferkin facts, I'm questioning the ethics of directors who are unable to run a business without it getting into debt of £48m and unable to generate enough cash then deciding that their loans should warrant that level of interest.
Whether we could or couldn't have got different rates anywhere else is besides the point.

No, it is actually the point. I don't think McCabe's loans have come from his own pocket, but rather from family trusts, and other companies, although please do correct me if I am wrong, as I might well be.

But assuming I am right, then the Trustees of the Trust have certain legal obligations. One of these will be to ensure that any loans made to businesses from the Trust are on a proper commercial basis. They have a legal obligation to maximise the value of the Trust, and could be prosecuted for failing to do so. There is actually an argument that the current rates of interest in the current economic situation, given the nature of the businesses we are dealing with (property, construction & football) are at less than commercial rates. I have certainly seen precisely that argument had elsewhere. And McCabe won't be one of the Trustees.

The same goes for companies, and the legal requirement to act in the best interests of the shareholders.

So it certainly will not have been a case of KB "deciding that his loans warranted that level of interest". His hands might well have been tied as far as that is concerned. From the club's point of view, these funds probably won't have been available from anywhere else. Its all that would have been on the table, and is actually a good deal compared to bank borrowing, if you can get it, at the moment.

Regarding the level of debt, it would not have been a problem IF we hadn't witnessed what we have with asset prices and the economy generally.

So you can criticise the decisions made in the past to incur the debt, although obviously with the benefit of hindsight, but you are quite wrong on the ethics side of things. Or at least in terms of the interest rates on his loans. If you want to criticise his ethics, you need to look elsewhere for your ammunition.

 

[lenners]

Umm.......



I'm off to do some work, instead of going round in circles and changing tact every few minutes

I didn't change tack (not tact) at any point.
I'm saying that the Tevez money is getting very little attention, including in the interview by Mr Birch.
You being unable to understand seems to make you dizzy.

 

[Foxy]

You being unable to understand seems to make you dizzy.

No, once again you are saying one thing, then completely denying it or claiming you meant something completely different and/or going off at another tangent.

Which is why, today, I can't be bothered to continue to try and have a discussion with you, as it is completely and utterly pointless.

I'll let Nick Jansky take over, as giving my full attention to working would seem to be more productive.