VAR Is it better without VAR?

[Grey Blade]

We had a goal given against us in exactly that scenario - have they reverted to the (far more sensible) "if they flag play stops" method?

If they flag it helps if they are correct. Especially in our league. If it's in the prem and they don't flag, var will check it anyway ( as I understand it).

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Enough said!

View attachment 143096

5 of the 7 cameras were occluded there.

The one in this image wasn't, but still

 

[Rochdaleblade]

I still don't believe that the technology is anywhere near good enough to judge tight offsides, but people seem to be accepting it. The West Ham decision on the other hand, was absolutely scandalous, the attackers' leg was going backwards when the keeper dove at him. However, that decision is not the fault of VAR, rather some clown thinks that that is a foul. I am quite happy we don't have it in the championship. I am sick of seeing soft as shit keepers claiming they have been impeded after every goal scored from a corner.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Refs, their lapdogs running the lines, sometimes make mistakes, speed of the game etc etc . Looking at incidents yesterday some or that incompetent they can’t do the job sat on their arse watching tv monitors fom several angles. PGMOL should stand down refs who make glaring errors AND have them explain their thinking. Until then, the “bent” claims will get louder. Start with the West Ham and Newcastle goals yesterday and why Ray and Stevie missed so much.

Then there was Mike Dean lying to the press about only having seconds to decide the Romero hair pulling incident despite the video showing it took him over a minute. Where was the VAR ref then, on his BETFRED account?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I still don't believe that the technology is anywhere near good enough to judge tight offsides, but people seem to be accepting it. The West Ham decision on the other hand, was absolutely scandalous, the attackers' leg was going backwards when the keeper dove at him. However, that decision is not the fault of VAR, rather some clown thinks that that is a foul. I am quite happy we don't have it in the championship. I am sick of seeing soft as shit keepers claiming they have been impeded after every goal scored from a corner.

The push on Willock as well. Hopefully the PL go to town on them. And tells them to get rid of chief apologist Riley.

 

[Mark F]

The push on Willock as well. Hopefully the PL go to town on them. And tells them to get rid of chief apologist Riley.

Howard Webb is replacing him at Christmas.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Howard Webb is replacing him at Christmas.

I knew he was standing down but didn’t know when. Good riddance.

 

[Colombia Blade]

If they changed the rules so only feet count for offside position, then they could put sensors in the boots and it would be an instant decision like Hawkeye goal line technology (apart from playing Villa, obviously). Otherwise, they get rid of the lines and ask the ref if it looks obviously offside from the replay/photo - if it's not obvious, the advantage is to the attacker. That should speed up the decisions as I think that's most people's main gripe

 

[Mark F]

If they changed the rules so only feet count for offside position, then they could put sensors in the boots and it would be an instant decision like Hawkeye goal line technology (apart from playing Villa, obviously). Otherwise, they get rid of the lines and ask the ref if it looks obviously offside from the replay/photo - if it's not obvious, the advantage is to the attacker. That should speed up the decisions as I think that's most people's main gripe

Bit like the Man U one today .

Maybe a foul or not but clearly not an obvious error as it took a while to decide .

 

[blade too long]

the truth is. it's all about opinion

as an ex ref myself. its in the rules that. an arbiter is there to. impose his opinion about the game,. any decision be it offside. a penalty to give a red card. it states in the opinion of the ref

VAR. has now. imposed. more opinions to every decision

it's. like a man standing trial for murder. having to negotiate having 4 judges instead of one to convince about any facts

the games decisions. instead of being instant. and how one. ref sees it has become overcomplicated and its. got 4 fold doubt introduced

it needs scrapping
there's been 3. absolute howlers at least this one weekend where decisions have been muddied by too many perspectives

 

[Dkc]

The failure is thinking we can 100% trust technology to take over a job that - once you dispense with 'clear and obvious' errors - is about opinions.

Without VAR there are three officials on the field, and a fourth who can be consulted if needed. That's already four sets of trained eyes judging each incident. If the ref is unsure, he can ask one of his officials. If a linesman thinks the ref has made a clear error he will raise his flag.

Okay the non-VAR system isn't perfect, but they generally get the decisions right. The odd wrong decision for me is a price worth paying to avoid the lengthy breaks in play while the VAR officials get involved, and the hesitancy of fans to celebrate a goal. This year the games have been better to watch without VAR.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

But with VAR, Wednesday would still be top of the league instead of the play-off places

(1 minute 20ish)

 

[Shirty Blade]

Thought Var would improve decision making but oddly it has been implemented in such an ill thought through way they are still making bizare or non decisions whilst stopping the game for 5 minutes with fans not knowing if they can celebrate or not. It's shit.

 

[Diamondlife]

But with VAR, Wednesday would still be top of the league instead of the play-off places

(1 minute 20ish)

But would VAR have given this one at about 4 minutes seconds 45 in the same match

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

But would VAR have given this one at about 4 minutes seconds 45 in the same match

Good point well made.

 

[Maurice Maurice]

You can't explain the VAR operator scratching off the Brighton goal for handball when it quite clearly wasn't, and how on earth they didn't confirm the penalty needs a serious investigation. That's beyond inept, it actually does stink of corruption.

I seem to remember the 'Toe incident' at Tottenham when we got robbed of a goal there as well. Sounds silly talking like this but what other explanation is there? Why Spurs I don't know, but I know they were awarded 3 points yesterday without having to win them.

Tottenham v Brighton: Refereeing body admits Brighton should have had penalty

Refereeing body PGMOL admits Brighton should have had a penalty for Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg's tackle on Kaoru Mitoma against Tottenham.

www.bbc.com

 

[BLADES1988]

It's all corrupt. So I think it's "clear and obvious" that there is fixing going on.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

You can't explain the VAR operator scratching off the Brighton goal for handball when it quite clearly wasn't, and how on earth they didn't confirm the penalty needs a serious investigation. That's beyond inept, it actually does stink of corruption.

I seem to remember the 'Toe incident' at Tottenham when we got robbed of a goal there as well. Sounds silly talking like this but what other explanation is there? Why Spurs I don't know, but I know they were awarded 3 points yesterday without having to win them.

Tottenham v Brighton: Refereeing body admits Brighton should have had penalty

Refereeing body PGMOL admits Brighton should have had a penalty for Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg's tackle on Kaoru Mitoma against Tottenham.

www.bbc.com

I felt very sorry for Brighton yesterday got the shit end of the stick from the VAR operator........Michael Salisbury.................who is the referee for the Burnley away game.

 

[Dkc]

It seems corrupt but I can't see how it actually could be in the conventional sense ie big clubs / EPL handing over brown envelopes to the VAR refs.

It could be more of a case of big club bias. VAR refs are subconsciously biased towards the clubs that they know are favoured by their paymasters. If there is any doubt, the decision goes in favour of the big, traditional club that normally competes for honours and doesn't get relegated.

The scandal is that VAR is still ruling on these marginal decisions when it's only supposed to rule on clear and obvious errors. Why is every PL goal now subject to a VAR check when there is no clear / obvious error by the on-field ref? Why are goals still being ruled out for marginal, debatable infringements in the build-up?

Watching the Brighton highlights yesterday, VAR ruined the game. Brighton score a good goal, and it's disallowed by VAR because it hit the shoulder of the striker before he scored. According to the rules of the game that isn't handball. Then Brighton get the clearest penalty you'll see all season. The ref doesn't give it, but VAR takes a look. How they didn't reverse the decision is a mystery to everyone who saw the replay.

If the VAR panel is not corrupt in the traditional sense, they must be seen as incompetent for not giving it. I can only assume they didn't bother looking at all the angles.

I think the EPL would much rather see Spurs challenging for Europe than Brighton. Harry Kane is England captain and poster-boy. Spurs have big crowds, a fantastic new stadium, and are based in the capital. I'm sure most of the EPL's ruling body would prefer to see them in the top six ahead of Brighton.

Everyone is saying that VAR is ruining the game and is not fit for purpose, but the EPL will never get rid of it.

 

[Jan Age]

VAR for me is just another tool for rigging games for the “bigger” teams & players.

My choices:

1st -get rid all together , I liked the controversy and heated debate after the game and it does balance out in the end. Most of us can understand basic human error when decisions are made real time.

2nd- keep it but place the emphasis on players not refs to ask for it to be activated. E.g. two VAR challenges per half if a team think it was clearly offside or clearly a penalty etc. After that ref and linesman decision is final.

 

[Dkc]

VAR for me is just another tool for rigging games for the “bigger” teams & players.

My choices:

1st -get rid all together , I liked the controversy and heated debate after the game and it does balance out in the end. Most of us can understand basic human error when decisions are made real time.

2nd- keep it but place the emphasis on players not refs to ask for it to be activated. E.g. two VAR challenges per half if a team think it was clearly offside or clearly a penalty etc. After that ref and linesman decision is final.

I'd be okay with the second. One of the main problems is that there is currently no limit to the number of times that VAR can halt the game. Even eight VAR stoppages per game could be too many though. One challenge per half.

 

[wizadry]

They bend the rules whenever they want to, we’ll never win, it’s bent as they come. Every sport has VAR yet no other sport has the shit we put up with, it truly is a joke and everyone just sits there and puts up with it, as soon as the so called big clubs fuck off into their own league the better, leave us to get on with the sport we grew up to love, not this monopolised shit.

 

[Selly]

I'd be okay with the second. One of the main problems is that there is currently no limit to the number of times that VAR can halt the game. Even eight VAR stoppages per game could be too many though. One challenge per half.

One challenge per game, but if you are successful, you get another one.

Like DRS in cricket.

EDIT: assuming we have to have it at all of course

 

[Westran]

I'm looking forwards to the return of VAR! Personally I'd rather decisions were correct and VAR helps facilitate that. I also quite enjoy the added excitement of VAR checks, it's great when goals against us get ruled out, like the West Ham one, and also like the fact you get to celebrate scored goals twice! Probably quite an unpopular opinion, but different strokes for different folks and all that.

 

[SB_90]

im having a hard time with technology because the irony is, i was enjoying a VAR free weekend in the FA Cup then Arsenal v Man Utd showed that Football does need for example the for ugarte headbutt & the melee that ensued. for me we shouldnt get rid. we need a softer touch on VAR. we need to get rid of the forensic examination / re refereeing

cricket dont check every wicket, tennis dont check every ball & im might be wrong but rugby union dont check every try. football somehow needs to move to the minimal interference. Var wouldve been perfect today if it hadnt got involved. until the melee

 

[100% part time blade]

im having a hard time with technology because the irony is, i was enjoying a VAR free weekend in the FA Cup then Arsenal v Man Utd showed that Football does need for example the for ugarte headbutt & the melee that ensued. for me we shouldnt get rid. we need a softer touch on VAR. we need to get rid of the forensic examination / re refereeing

cricket dont check every wicket, tennis dont check every ball & im might be wrong but rugby union dont check every try. football somehow needs to move to the minimal interference. Var wouldve been perfect today if it hadnt got involved. until the melee

What do you think should have been the outcome of the video assistant reviewing the melee?
Looked to me like the sort of situation where everyone is getting emotional, players are trying to disentangle their teammates from opponents, nobody is really being actually violent, and a couple of bookings for starting it off is appropriate.
Even if there had been a serious error owing to the lack of VAR, I’d still prefer it to having another referee going over some key decisions from video replays, making a subjective decision from them, then telling the first referee what to do - even if I was on the losing side.

 

[Bladesman]

im having a hard time with technology because the irony is, i was enjoying a VAR free weekend in the FA Cup then Arsenal v Man Utd showed that Football does need for example the for ugarte headbutt & the melee that ensued. for me we shouldnt get rid. we need a softer touch on VAR. we need to get rid of the forensic examination / re refereeing

cricket dont check every wicket, tennis dont check every ball & im might be wrong but rugby union dont check every try. football somehow needs to move to the minimal interference. Var wouldve been perfect today if it hadnt got involved. until the melee

No VAR in place just highlights how useless refs such as Madley and his assistants are. The standard of refs has got worse in the PL/EFL (many of us keep saying it) and the football authorities don't appear to be doing much about it. Then when VAR gets involved a useless referee at Stockley Park is trying to cover for their mate on the pitch.

VAR or no VAR the referees need to improve and need to be punished properly when they have been shit.

 

[SB_90]

What do you think should have been the outcome of the video assistant reviewing the melee?
Looked to me like the sort of situation where everyone is getting emotional, players are trying to disentangle their teammates from opponents, nobody is really being actually violent, and a couple of bookings for starting it off is appropriate.
Even if there had been a serious error owing to the lack of VAR, I’d still prefer it to having another referee going over some key decisions from video replays, making a subjective decision from them, then telling the first referee what to do - even if I was on the losing side.

it was certainly emotional but for me ugarte had to go for that headbutt. it was violent conduct. & was the 1st time id seen all weekend where i thought VAR wouldve been good there. which in itself shows how they little VAR needs to intervine. a whole weekend of the games ive watched id say 2 incidents. needed it harrogate penalty & ugarte headbutt

 

[Pedro Verde]

The sooner we get rid of VAR and the fuckwits that run it the better
I would rather put up with Refs making mistakes than endure the total shambles that is VAR

 

[wizadry]

VAR isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, we just need to somehow get rid of the corrupt cunts that run our game from top to bottom, that’s going to be a very hard task though.