Incoming players

[GRUMPY BLADE]

boro payed 2 million at the beginning of the year for baptste so he cant be that shit

Of course he can be shite if he's not over his injury.

You not seen Wallace and Coutts?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

This misrepresents what I'm saying.

It seems obvious to me that some players will not want to come to, or stay at, the club bc of the atmosphere generated by some fans.

This will cost the club as potential recruits go elsewhere.



This may be due to the way some of the crowd chant, "We're fucking shit," or "You're not fit to wear the shirt," or "What the fucking hell was that?" last season after Scunthorpe away (just to demonstrate it's nothing new) - or scream death threats at players' family members or boo when we're 1-0 up and in total control of a game.

It seems obvious that a young player may prefer to work in a different environment. His team are also quite likely to want him to work somewhere else.

nopigfansintown's post may refer to other things. I don't know. But I'd be very surprised if the behaviour of some of the people attending the games wasn't having a significant negative impact on our reputation in the game, and therefore on our ability to recruit.

Could someone explain what is wrong with this line of reasoning?

Come up with a list of behind closed doors wins and you might have some credit to what you've typed but to blame 20000 suckers who turn up week in week out to watch the 11 th best team in the third division is actually bollocks.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

boro payed 2 million at the beginning of the year for baptste so he cant be that shit

Ah but he's wearing a Sheffield United shirt now Tazzy.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I don't see any particular problem in attracting players, we had 46 professionals on our books 6 weeks ago. Our problem is the managers keep signing the wrong players. Any player who isn't sure if they want to sign for the biggest club with the highest gates and the most passionate fans, because they'll be criticised if they play badly is just the sort of player we don't need.

This reads like denial.

Whether you can see it or not is not the issue, young Division 1 players are not being allowed to come here by their parent clubs. That is the fact as stated.

Do you think it would be in any way good for player development to have a young player at a club where a prominent section of "fans" chant, "We're fucking shit," or, "You're not fit to wear the shirt," or boo when we are winning, or chant, "How shit must you be, we're winning away."

It's far from everyone and, for instance, some fans at Rochdale tried to support the team and the club.

I wasn't at Fleetwood but there were the usual accusations of not trying - in the meantime the players got a late penalty, scored, and then had the ball in the net in injury time - goal or not, I don't know.

The manager and the players are trying to advance the cause of the team and the club.

Some people attending games are acting against the club.

It seems like total denial to say that this isn't a big problem, both for the players here, and any players who might be available.

And no, this isn't some romantic notion of dealing with the pressure of high expectations.

 

[Sean Thornton]

This reads like denial.

Whether you can see it or not is not the issue, young Division 1 players are not being allowed to come here by their parent clubs. That is the fact as stated.

Do you think it would be in any way good for player development to have a young player at a club where a prominent section of "fans" chant, "We're fucking shit," or, "You're not fit to wear the shirt," or boo when we are winning, or chant, "How shit must you be, we're winning away."

It's far from everyone and, for instance, some fans at Rochdale tried to support the team and the club.

I wasn't at Fleetwood but there were the usual accusations of not trying - in the meantime the players got a late penalty, scored, and then had the ball in the net in injury time - goal or not, I don't know.

The manager and the players are trying to advance the cause of the team and the club.

Some people attending games are acting against the club.

It seems like total denial to say that this isn't a big problem, both for the players here, and any players who might be available.

And no, this isn't some romantic notion of dealing with the pressure of high expectations.

It's much more likely that a poisonous atmosphere in the dressing room would put off clubs letting young talent come here.

But you have to accept that there could be a problem with the players to countenance the fact. It's much easier to blame fans and comment on their behaviour at games you didn't attend.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

This reads like denial.

Whether you can see it or not is not the issue, young Division 1 players are not being allowed to come here by their parent clubs. That is the fact as stated.

Do you think it would be in any way good for player development to have a young player at a club where a prominent section of "fans" chant, "We're fucking shit," or, "You're not fit to wear the shirt," or boo when we are winning, or chant, "How shit must you be, we're winning away."

It's far from everyone and, for instance, some fans at Rochdale tried to support the team and the club.

I wasn't at Fleetwood but there were the usual accusations of not trying - in the meantime the players got a late penalty, scored, and then had the ball in the net in injury time - goal or not, I don't know.

The manager and the players are trying to advance the cause of the team and the club.

Some people attending games are acting against the club.

It seems like total denial to say that this isn't a big problem, both for the players here, and any players who might be available.

And no, this isn't some romantic notion of dealing with the pressure of high expectations.

How many times do we have to go through this . It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fans. Parent clubs appear not to be allowing young players come on loan to SUFC due to the apparent lack of professionalism , respect , and discipline both on and off the field.

I am sure the Baxter situation ( also maybe Ched. ) has perhaps not helped , because the other issue clubs like to see is how a loan club look after a player , when he is not playing or training .( have we a reputation of drinking , late nights , drugs , brawling , football being secondary, complete lack of discipline )

We are a backward club in many respects , and the cause and effect has to be the existing players at the club.

Perhaps this is why Adkins ,who is somewhat of a cultured bloke , cannot resolve these issues which is down to player power and his lack of experience / expertise in dealing with a certain type of disruptive player (s).

Next season may well be a completely differant kettle of fish , but perhaps Adkins hasn't the respect and standing in the game as we thought he had . Or it's him advising other clubs , that the atmosphere ( not fans ) at BDTBL is not conducive for young up and coming players to be in and plying a football learning curve trade at the moment.

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

How many times do we have to go through this . It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fans. Parent clubs appear not to be allowing young players come on loan to SUFC due to the apparent lack of professionalism , respect , and discipline both on and off the field.

I am sure the Baxter situation ( also maybe Ched. ) has perhaps not helped , because the other issue clubs like to see is how a loan club look after a player , when he is not playing or training .( have we a reputation of drinking , late nights , drugs , brawling , football being secondary, complete lack of discipline )

We are a backward club in many respects , and the cause and effect has to be the existing players at the club.

Perhaps this is why Adkins ,who is somewhat of a cultured bloke , cannot resolve these issues which is down to player power and his lack of experience / expertise in dealing with a certain type of disruptive player (s).

Next season may well be a completely differant kettle of fish , but perhaps Adkins hasn't the respect and standing in the game as we thought he had . Or it's him advising other clubs , that the atmosphere ( not fans ) at BDTBL is not conducive for young up and coming players to be in and plying a football learning curve trade at the moment.

UTB

The last part of this post is in direct contradiction of the evidence provided: ie we have pursued certain players and their parent (good word) clubs have said they don't want them to come here.

Unless for some reason Turnbull is pursuing targets and then Adkins is advising them not to come.

"It is nothing whatsoever to do with the fans"

Do you really think the behaviour has no effect whatsoever recruitment?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

The last part of this post is in direct contradiction of the evidence provided: ie we have pursued certain players and their parent (good word) clubs have said they don't want them to come here.

Unless for some reason Turnbull is pursuing targets and then Adkins is advising them not to come.

"It is nothing whatsoever to do with the fans"

Do you really think the behaviour has no effect whatsoever recruitment?

Premiership clubs stock pile young players like a commodity and have to get them out on loan , to try and develop there careers . Playing in front of a hostile crowd can be character building , and wonder if that's the reason Newcastle have let some kids go to Millwall.

Our issue with loan signings is more deep routed than the fans ( blaming fans is the easy option and a excuse ) , something is not right behind the scenes which requires resolving for our club to move forward. Adkins seems to be a decent bloke although his performance to date on all fronts is boardering on dire , and this needs resolving .

It's a big job at the lane , the question is , is Adkins big enough for the job . This loan situation , is important , as it could either make or break us next season .

UTB

 

[robbiez666]

There's clearly a bad culture behind the scenes and we've seemingly almost lost a year or two of youth players due to it.

How the first teamers act will rub off on the younger players.

I think, if we can get shut of all the bad apples, then the reputation of a club for younger players to come to on loan will slowly improve. I'm sure NA is a manager Premiership clubs would be happy to loan players to.

 

[blade67]

Whether you can see it or not is not the issue, young Division 1 players are not being allowed to come here by their parent clubs. That is the fact as stated. Seriously? I've missed that, who has stated this?

Do you think it would be in any way good for player development to have a young player at a club where a prominent section of "fans" chant, "We're fucking shit," or, "You're not fit to wear the shirt," or boo when we are winning, or chant, "How shit must you be, we're winning away." Do you really think this is affecting our reputation? I'd be very surprised if this was the problem. When we've had the clear out in the summer, do you really think players will think twice about coming here if the money and contract are right? My guess is that players with the kind of confidence we want will think they can become a legend like Deane or Agana or Jags etc. Only weak minded players would avoid coming to the lane because there are a few negative fools on the terraces.

The manager and the players are trying to advance the cause of the team and the club. Some people attending games are acting against the club. This club and board have a small number of fans with a negative agenda, just like every other club. Overall, this club has the most loyal fans in this league by miles Unfortunately 10 other clubs have managers and players doing a better job of advancing the cause of their clubs at the moment.

It seems like total denial to say that this isn't a big problem, both for the players here, and any players who might be available. We agree that denial is not a positive attribute when things are bad, a recognition of the real problem is always essential when searching for a fix

 

[nopigfansintown]

Its not fan negativity that's the real problem - Its more that United are a club in constant flux. If you're Brendan Rodgers, Jurgen Klopp or Alex Neil (or on their staff) would you lend players to a club who change manager on an annual basis. Who have no clearly defined style of play? Who have a restless fan base? We are seen as a basket case, who will not help the development of the best young players on the market. Nigel Adkins and the board have to help in rebuilding outside perceptions of the club. Adkins has attempted to sign several young players who are at other league one clubs doing well.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Whether you can see it or not is not the issue, young Division 1 players are not being allowed to come here by their parent clubs. That is the fact as stated. Seriously? I've missed that, who has stated this?

Do you think it would be in any way good for player development to have a young player at a club where a prominent section of "fans" chant, "We're fucking shit," or, "You're not fit to wear the shirt," or boo when we are winning, or chant, "How shit must you be, we're winning away." Do you really think this is affecting our reputation? I'd be very surprised if this was the problem. When we've had the clear out in the summer, do you really think players will think twice about coming here if the money and contract are right? My guess is that players with the kind of confidence we want will think they can become a legend like Deane or Agana or Jags etc. Only weak minded players would avoid coming to the lane because there are a few negative fools on the terraces.

The manager and the players are trying to advance the cause of the team and the club. Some people attending games are acting against the club. This club and board have a small number of fans with a negative agenda, just like every other club. Overall, this club has the most loyal fans in this league by miles Unfortunately 10 other clubs have managers and players doing a better job of advancing the cause of their clubs at the moment.

It seems like total denial to say that this isn't a big problem, both for the players here, and any players who might be available. We agree that denial is not a positive attribute when things are bad, a recognition of the real problem is always essential when searching for a fix

How do you know we are after div 1 players ,Adkins has said he wants players who will make a difference. Div1 players of that quality are there but will competing teams let us have them any way.You could say Morsy was available to us especially with Dimaio going the other way
but maybe Morsy is not on his shopping list.It's obviouse at this stage of the season game changers arnt easy to come by ,Baptist I think is one as he adds pace experience and no little nous , a couple more of that calibre would be great fingers crossed Adkins can get them in.
Still all to play for.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Whether you can see it or not is not the issue, young Division 1 players are not being allowed to come here by their parent clubs. That is the fact as stated. Seriously? I've missed that, who has stated this?

Up thread nopigfansintown.

Mentions it again in another recent and informative post.

Its not fan negativity that's the real problem - Its more that United are a club in constant flux. If you're Brendan Rodgers, Jurgen Klopp or Alex Neil (or on their staff) would you lend players to a club who change manager on an annual basis. Who have no clearly defined style of play? Who have a restless fan base? We are seen as a basket case, who will not help the development of the best young players on the market. Nigel Adkins and the board have to help in rebuilding outside perceptions of the club. Adkins has attempted to sign several young players who are at other league one clubs doing well.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Its not fan negativity that's the real problem - Its more that United are a club in constant flux. If you're Brendan Rodgers, Jurgen Klopp or Alex Neil (or on their staff) would you lend players to a club who change manager on an annual basis. Who have no clearly defined style of play? Who have a restless fan base? We are seen as a basket case, who will not help the development of the best young players on the market. Nigel Adkins and the board have to help in rebuilding outside perceptions of the club. Adkins has attempted to sign several young players who are at other league one clubs doing well.

I'd be interested to know how much of this is fact and how much is opinion.

Either way there's some insight here.

Adkins has attempted to sign several young players who are at other league one clubs doing well.

Is it possible to say with any authority why they didn't come?

I'd've thought Che's inclusion and development would've been a positive.

He has been making all the right noises in public about this recently - I wonder if that's a message to other clubs, agents, and players as well.

 

[alcoblade]

The last part of this post is in direct contradiction of the evidence provided: ie we have pursued certain players and their parent (good word) clubs have said they don't want them to come here.

I'm surprised, but not disputing this - do you have actual evidence?

I can imagine some clubs wouldn't want their players to go to other clubs because they aren't guaranteed of playing which is likely given our bloated squad.

Have you actual quotes that clubs are not sending players to us because of the behavior of our fans? I'll be amazed.

Edit - just seen the reference from NPIT. It seems to me you are looking too hard to be proved right.

We are a bag of shit at the minute - some clubs don't want young players to be sucked into it. Some of our fans behavior is a symptom of this too, not the cause, as you seem to have become fixated on.

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I'm surprised, but not disputing this - do you have actual evidence?

I can imagine some clubs wouldn't want their players to go to other clubs because they aren't guaranteed of playing which is likely given our bloated squad.

Have you actual quotes that clubs are not sending players to us because of the behavior of our fans? I'll be amazed.

Edit - just seen the reference from NPIT. It seems to me you are looking too hard to be proved right.

We are a bag of shit at the minute - some clubs don't want young players to be sucked into it. Some of our fans behavior is a symptom of this too, not the cause, as you seem to have become fixated on.

UTB

Good post.

#11 upthread

Adkins has been trying to get young player on loan since the summer and has been thwarted when trying to get Teixiera and Kent
(Liverpool) and Jacob Murphy (Coventry). Our club is not seen as a conducive environment for developing young players. He's after a midfielder from Norwich, but this may not happen until the summer ((if at all).

Young players are not being allowed to come was the specific point - regardless of cause.

Fwiw I have tried in this thread not to claim too much but it's a sensitive issue and even a small claim is likely to provoke a strong reaction.

NPFIT below first says it isn't, then says it is a factor.

Its not fan negativity that's the real problem - Its more that United are a club in constant flux. If you're Brendan Rodgers, Jurgen Klopp or Alex Neil (or on their staff) would you lend players to a club who change manager on an annual basis. Who have no clearly defined style of play? Who have a restless fan base? We are seen as a basket case, who will not help the development of the best young players on the market. Nigel Adkins and the board have to help in rebuilding outside perceptions of the club. Adkins has attempted to sign several young players who are at other league one clubs doing well.

In a way this is almost irrelevant as the point seems a) taboo and b) obvious.

It's not necessarily a long term issue - but if you're looking for a short term loan to get promoted, say, then all the episodes referred to have to count against us. How can they not? It's fine margins and this could well be costing us.

I took the Burton fans chanting, "You're fucking shit," as evidence that word was out. Paranoia? Don't know.

I have tried to say it is a factor, but like I mentioned above, given how close it is it is we need everything going in our favour. This isn't.

I don't think I'm fixated on it - any more than McEveley being a scapegoat earlier, or Sammon actually being worth his place.

So just to restate for added effect: The behaviour of certain people who attend games works against the interests of the club.

Maybe I could turn it up a bit and say it might even cost us a play-off spot or even promotion.

 

[alcoblade]

Good post.

#11 upthread



Young players are not being allowed to come was the specific point - regardless of cause.

Fwiw I have tried in this thread not to claim too much but it's a sensitive issue and even a small claim is likely to provoke a strong reaction.

NPFIT below first says it isn't, then says it is a factor.



In a way this is almost irrelevant as the point seems a) taboo and b) obvious.

It's not necessarily a long term issue - but if you're looking for a short term loan to get promoted, say, then all the episodes referred to have to count against us. How can they not? It's fine margins and this could well be costing us.

I took the Burton fans chanting, "You're fucking shit," as evidence that word was out. Paranoia? Don't know.

I have tried to say it is a factor, but like I mentioned above, given how close it is it is we need everything going in our favour. This isn't.

I don't think I'm fixated on it - any more than McEveley being a scapegoat earlier, or Sammon actually being worth his place.

So just to restate for added effect: The behaviour of certain people who attend games works against the interests of the club.

Maybe I could turn it up a bit and say it might even cost us a play-off spot or even promotion.

As I've said before - credit to you for arguing unpopular opinions.

On this occassion, I don't agree with your point. Whilst it might be a tiny contributing factor - it is really a symptom of lots of other bigger things being wrong at the club.

Shark bites are correlated to Ice Cream sales in some places. To avoid shark bites, should they stop eating Ice Cream, or stop swimming in the sea in summer?

UTB

 

[Smirth]

I took the Burton fans chanting, "You're fucking shit," as evidence that word was out. Paranoia? Don't know.

I think they were chanting that because they were watching us. We were shit,

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I think there's a small element of twats within our support and some of the abuse, despite being at our lowest ebb, is completely inexcusable.

I also think it's a sensible assertion that top flight clubs would loan their best prospects to clubs with little pressure. If I was Spurs or Man United, there's no chance I'd send a young prospect to Bramall Lane. I'd pick a dozen L1 clubs before SUFC.

Permanent deals are slightly different I expect as we can offer better deals than most clubs and fundamentally money talks. But if you're looking for a new role and there's a few offers on the table, workplace culture / atmosphere / company direction is material if the money is comparable.

Converseley, if they are going to play for a big club like Man U or Spurs they need to learn how to handle a sizeable, expectant crowd. They would also be working with a manager with an excellent reputation and in facilities far better than the rest of League 1

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I took the Burton fans chanting, "You're fucking shit," as evidence that word was out.


I have tried to say it is a factor,

Oh shit, we've managed to keep our shitness a secret for so long but now everyone knows! Damn our fans

IF it's a factor (which I'm not convinced about) it's

a) a drop in the ocean compared to other problems (the general atrocious running of the club)
b) a symptom and understandable reaction to years of terrible mismanagement.
c) something that can easily be overcome by putting more fundamental issues right with regards to running the club.

 

[blade67]

Up thread nopigfansintown.

Mentions it again in another recent and informative post.

WHF

Can't find the "up thread" and in the other thread he states clearly that fans aren't the problem. Plus the way you posted implied this was official when in fact it's internet tittle tattle - no disrespect to nopigfansintown, who's posts I like, but it seem you have put 2 & 2 together and made 5.

PS not really trying to pick a fight with you as generally I think a positive view is the right approach but I think that should extend to the fans at a club that has let them down over and over again, for years.

PPS how do you tag people?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

WHF

Can't find the "up thread" and in the other thread he states clearly that fans aren't the problem. Plus the way you posted implied this was official when in fact it's internet tittle tattle - no disrespect to nopigfansintown, who's posts I like, but it seem you have put 2 & 2 together and made 5.

PS not really trying to pick a fight with you as generally I think a positive view is the right approach but I think that should extend to the fans at a club that has let them down over and over again, for years.

PPS how do you tag people?

Lean over the top rope with your hand/arm stretched out.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

WHF

Can't find the "up thread" and in the other thread he states clearly that fans aren't the problem. Plus the way you posted implied this was official when in fact it's internet tittle tattle - no disrespect to nopigfansintown, who's posts I like, but it seem you have put 2 & 2 together and made 5.

PS not really trying to pick a fight with you as generally I think a positive view is the right approach but I think that should extend to the fans at a club that has let them down over and over again, for years.

PPS how do you tag people?

Type @ followed by the name of the person you want to tag blade67

 

[Sean Thornton]

As I've said before - credit to you for arguing unpopular opinions.

On this occassion, I don't agree with your point. Whilst it might be a tiny contributing factor - it is really a symptom of lots of other bigger things being wrong at the club.

Shark bites are correlated to Ice Cream sales in some places. To avoid shark bites, should they stop eating Ice Cream, or stop swimming in the sea in summer?

UTB

Maybe "have no clearly defined style of play" may be a factor? Young players are sent out to gain experience and learn about first team football. What would they have learned by being here this season? That the fans have more expectation that some first teamers have pride?

 

[alcoblade]

Maybe "have no clearly defined style of play" may be a factor? Young players are sent out to gain experience and learn about first team football. What would they have learned by being here this season? That the fans have more expectation that some first teamers have pride?

I agree with that. But I'm sure Adkins does have a preferred style. It's just that with a shit group of players, you're damned if you do.......

He stuck with something that didn't work...."No plan B"
He changed the style too regularly..............."No clearly defined style"

The top and bottom of it, for me, is that Clough assembled a team to play a certain way, and got the most out of it, which wasn't quite good enough. Changing it without significant investment was probably always doomed to failure - at least until we get rid of most of what's gone before.

UTB

 

[Sean Thornton]

I agree with that. But I'm sure Adkins does have a preferred style. It's just that with a shit group of players, you're damned if you do.......

He stuck with something that didn't work...."No plan B"
He changed the style too regularly..............."No clearly defined style"

The top and bottom of it, for me, is that Clough assembled a team to play a certain way, and got the most out of it, which wasn't quite good enough. Changing it without significant investment was probably always doomed to failure - at least until we get rid of most of what's gone before.

UTB

Didn't he say he wanted to play attacking football? I agree he's stuck with a poor bunch and he's chopped and changed personnel and formation time and again and can't get some of them to put a proper shift in. Now we have the suggestion that the players are all trying, which if true, shows that many simply aren't good enough, but no, the pressure from the terraces is the reason they don't can't won't perform.

That's why despite annoyance with Adkins when I'm walking out of the ground, I believe we must see who's going and the type of player he's going to bring in. If it is this sorry bunch's fault, some other poor sod will have to do it anyway while we continue to pay NA his severance on top of the new guys wages.

 

[blade67]

I agree with that. But I'm sure Adkins does have a preferred style. It's just that with a shit group of players, you're damned if you do.......

He stuck with something that didn't work...."No plan B"
He changed the style too regularly..............."No clearly defined style"

The top and bottom of it, for me, is that Clough assembled a team to play a certain way, and got the most out of it, which wasn't quite good enough. Changing it without significant investment was probably always doomed to failure - at least until we get rid of most of what's gone before.

UTB

Totally agree with this. You can't say he hasn't tried but the players aren't good enough.

 

[blade67]

As I've said before - credit to you for arguing unpopular opinions.

On this occassion, I don't agree with your point. Whilst it might be a tiny contributing factor - it is really a symptom of lots of other bigger things being wrong at the club.

Shark bites are correlated to Ice Cream sales in some places. To avoid shark bites, should they stop eating Ice Cream, or stop swimming in the sea in summer?

UTB

Love the analogy. Cause and effect versus correlation. A common error when you are desperate to knock down a straw man. The fans are the least of this club's problems

 

[Gordon cowans]

Referring back to young loanees from big clubs,when i actually thought about it we don't have the best track record of getting young prospects from the mancs,arsenal,chelski et al.........i would love to know if theres any truth regarding reluctance to send us good young lads or is it just coincidence that we are usually overlooked for "lesser" clubs.
I agree with the previous post that playing in front of large jeering fans would be superb apprenticeship and surely playing on our pitch is far better than 95%of the winter sand dunes in this league.
Coincidence or politics?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

This misrepresents what I'm saying.

It seems obvious to me that some players will not want to come to, or stay at, the club bc of the atmosphere generated by some fans.

This will cost the club as potential recruits go elsewhere.



This may be due to the way some of the crowd chant, "We're fucking shit," or "You're not fit to wear the shirt," or "What the fucking hell was that?" last season after Scunthorpe away (just to demonstrate it's nothing new) - or scream death threats at players' family members or boo when we're 1-0 up and in total control of a game.

It seems obvious that a young player may prefer to work in a different environment. His team are also quite likely to want him to work somewhere else.

nopigfansintown's post may refer to other things. I don't know. But I'd be very surprised if the behaviour of some of the people attending the games wasn't having a significant negative impact on our reputation in the game, and therefore on our ability to recruit.

Could someone explain what is wrong with this line of reasoning?

How often do the fans shout "We're fucking shit" and "You're not fit to wear the shirt"? . . . . Not very often.
If you equate these outpourings of frustration to the shit we've been served up over the years, it's still a tad lop-sided don't you think.?