CONFIRMED Iliman Ndiaye to Marseille

[jt64]

Sadly, I don't think we are in a position to wait and see. If any player does not want to commit to us, we can't afford to lose him on the free. As hard as it is to say..... If we get a good offer, I would sell.

It's the other way around - we can't afford to not have Ndiaye's contributions on the pitch in 23/24, which will be worth more than whatever transfer fee we would reasonably get for him. It's basically what matt is saying below here. Even if we don't stay up, it's the correct play to retain and let him go on a free. Of course, the correct play (as I've said before) is to get him to extend to 2025 on massively improved terms (read - whatever you think our highest ever wage has been and more than double it) with a release clause after this season, which he'd be bonkers not to sign, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that

If he keeps us in the PL, that's worth more to United financially than any transfer fee we'll receive now.

 

[Toronto Blade fan]

If he keeps us in the PL, that's worth more to United financially than any transfer fee we'll receive now.

The problem is the "if". If he does not keep us in the PL then we will have missed a massive opportunity to invest in the squad/club. Don't get me wrong, I would do almost anything contract wise before selling... I would offer him the moon and my left testicle (the bigger one).... But if declined, would sell.

 

[LondonBlade89]

The problem is the "if". If he does not keep us in the PL then we will have missed a massive opportunity to invest in the squad/club. Don't get me wrong, I would do almost anything contract wise before selling... I would offer him the moon and my left testicle (the bigger one).... But if declined, would sell.

If a team bids a value that would represent a “massive opportunity to invest in the squad” then I imagine we’d accept that offer. £15 million or around that number isn’t a massive opportunity to invest.

 

[TopBoy]

The good thing is that he will be in very high demand. It's obvious that he will be able to perform at the highest level and so a number of clubs, at home and abroad will be in for him thus pushing his transfer fee up.
Can't remember the last player we had that got me up out of my seat EVERY time he got the ball. A special talent and the only way of keeping him longer than a year is if we have a new owner with money to spunk on proven players.

 

[YES Blade]

It's the other way around - we can't afford to not have Ndiaye's contributions on the pitch in 23/24, which will be worth more than whatever transfer fee we would reasonably get for him. It's basically what matt is saying below here. Even if we don't stay up, it's the correct play to retain and let him go on a free. Of course, the correct play (as I've said before) is to get him to extend to 2025 on massively improved terms (read - whatever you think our highest ever wage has been and more than double it) with a release clause after this season, which he'd be bonkers not to sign, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that

That’s what I’d be looking to do, say £100k a week with £1m signing on fee. That’s £6.2m or about half that amount after tax. He’d be daft to not accept an offer that big which includes a realise clause.

Yes he could make even more if he sees out his contract, but it would be a case of “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”. Take the money now, secure your and your families futures, then keep performing and make even more money.

 

[SUFCScorecard]

There are 3 scenarios. Lets assume we get 20m for him if we sell this summer, and 130m for staying up.

Keep him and get relegated	0
Keep him and stay up	130m
Sell him	20m

The deal I would offer him for a 1 year extension would be an increase in wage (lets say an incremental 4m taking him to around 100k), a large survival bonus (5m), and a commitment to give him 25% of any transfer fee we obtain in 2024.

Keep him and get relegated	0 - 4m (wages) + 15m (Transfer fee less Ili's cut) = 11m
Keep him and stay up	130 - 4 (wages) + 15m (Transfer fee less Ili's cut) - 5m (PL survival bonus) = 136m
Sell him	20m

Ili would pocket 15m if we stayed up and sold him for 20m in the summer of 2024, as much as the highest paid players in the Premier League.

 

[Yogi]

There are 3 scenarios. Lets assume we get 20m for him if we sell this summer, and 130m for staying up.

Keep him and get relegated	0
Keep him and stay up	130m
Sell him	20m

The deal I would offer him for a 1 year extension would be an increase in wage (lets say an incremental 4m taking him to around 100k), a large survival bonus (5m), and a commitment to give him 25% of any transfer fee we obtain in 2024.

Keep him and get relegated	0 - 4m (wages) + 15m (Transfer fee less Ili's cut) = 11m
Keep him and stay up	130 - 4 (wages) + 15m (Transfer fee less Ili's cut) - 5m (PL survival bonus) = 136m
Sell him	20m

Ili would pocket 15m if we stayed up and sold him for 20m in the summer of 2024, as much as the highest paid players in the Premier League.

You’d need to add something to your contract offer if you want to make it as valuable to him as walking on a free and that would be a commitment to accept the offer he chose not the one for the highest fee. That is what leaving at the end of his deal gives him total and complete freedom to leave for the destination he truly wants and thinks is best for him which might no necessarily be the one who pays the most money. That of course may mean that the fee we might get for him in that scenario could be way below his value.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

It's the other way around - we can't afford to not have Ndiaye's contributions on the pitch in 23/24, which will be worth more than whatever transfer fee we would reasonably get for him. It's basically what matt is saying below here. Even if we don't stay up, it's the correct play to retain and let him go on a free. Of course, the correct play (as I've said before) is to get him to extend to 2025 on massively improved terms (read - whatever you think our highest ever wage has been and more than double it) with a release clause after this season, which he'd be bonkers not to sign, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that

Cost benefit analysis innit. The cost benefit of keeping Ndiaye was sub consciously calculated in the summer transfer window and we tried to sell him, we saw the potential transfer fee receivable as being more valuable than what he could do on the pitch.

In the JTW the same calculation was made and we decided that the potential financial rewards to the club by keeping Ndiaye were more than selling him.

His value to the club now is from selling. He won't keep us up. He won't sign a new contract. He's now simply an asset that needs selling before 1st September.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Cost benefit analysis innit. The cost benefit of keeping Ndiaye was sub consciously calculated in the summer transfer window and we tried to sell him, we saw the potential transfer fee receivable as being more valuable than what he could do on the pitch.

In the JTW the same calculation was made and we decided that the potential financial rewards to the club by keeping Ndiaye were more than selling him.

His value to the club now is from selling. He won't keep us up. He won't sign a new contract. He's now simply an asset that needs selling before 1st September.

It still depends on what a club that he is prepared to sign for is willing to pay. If it's only 10 million then there's an argument that we may spend a large chunk of that on a loan fee and wages for a player who is not as good as Illy and will still be gone if we get relegated at the end of the season. Given that his wage is currently so low I don't think the benefits are as clear cut as you make out.

 

[SUFCScorecard]

You’d need to add something to your contract offer if you want to make it as valuable to him as walking on a free and that would be a commitment to accept the offer he chose not the one for the highest fee. That is what leaving at the end of his deal gives him total and complete freedom to leave for the destination he truly wants and thinks is best for him which might no necessarily be the one who pays the most money. That of course may mean that the fee we might get for him in that scenario could be way below his value.

I think that is always the case to a certain extent. You can't force a player to go sign a contract with another team. By giving him a % of the transfer fee you align incentives for him to seek a large fee (though obviously that wouldn't be the only driver).

I still think this kind of offer would be a long shot, but you are putting life changing money on the table, giving him the opportunity to star in a PL team as a starter where he is already established, and still retaining a lot of the optionality he gets as a free transfer next summer.

 

[Yogi]

I think that is always the case to a certain extent. You can't force a player to go sign a contract with another team. By giving him a % of the transfer fee you align incentives for him to seek a large fee (though obviously that wouldn't be the only driver).

I still think this kind of offer would be a long shot, but you are putting life changing money on the table, giving him the opportunity to star in a PL team as a starter where he is already established, and still retaining a lot of the optionality he gets as a free transfer next summer.

I want him to stay as well but I think the most likely outcome will be that he stays this next season and then moves for free to Marseilles if the rumours are true.

If I’m honest I wouldn’t begrudge him that he owes the club nothing he’s cost us very little and already paid it back many times over by being a driving force in our promotion he’d leave with my best wishes in that situation providing he continues to be give his all next year.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I want him to stay as well but I think the most likely outcome will be that he stays this next season and then moves for free to Marseilles if the rumours are true.

If I’m honest I wouldn’t begrudge him that he owes the club nothing he’s cost us very little and already paid it back many times over by being a driving force in our promotion he’d leave with my best wishes in that situation providing he continues to be give his all next year.

Marseilles is his goal but I reckon he would like to rip it up in the premiership for a season or two after all it is the best league in the world(the players say this not just the punters) .can we entice him to stay for a season or two he is loved just like TC was and that is worth something not just money.

 

[Yogi]

Marseilles is his goal but I reckon he would like to rip it up in the premiership for a season or two after all it is the best league in the world(the players say this not just the punters) .can we entice him to stay for a season or two he is loved just like TC was and that is worth something not just money.

Maybe but if I were Ndiaye’s agent I’d be telling him he’s got two big contracts left in football and he’s not made himself any life changing money yet. He’ll be 24 at the end of next season if he wants one of those contracts to be at Marseilles then the sooner he signs it the better. If he signs that deal next summer he’ll likely be 28/29 upon its conclusion and has a chance at another big payday if it goes well if he waits another year or two he’ll be 30 or older and the wage he’d likely command would drop.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Marseille are looking at offloading Alexis Sanchez who is on BIG money, to PSG, and bringing in Zaha on a free. They play a 4-3-3. Imagine Zaha & Ndiaye playing either side of a competent CF. I'm hard just thinking about it. Zaha on good money and a free, Ndiaye on a reduced fee & good money, it evens itself out to a great bit of business.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Maybe but if I were Ndiaye’s agent I’d be telling him he’s got two big contracts left in football and he’s not made himself any life changing money yet. He’ll be 24 at the end of next season if he wants one of those contracts to be at Marseilles then the sooner he signs it the better. If he signs that deal next summer he’ll likely be 28/29 upon its conclusion and has a chance at another big payday if it goes well if he waits another year or two he’ll be 30 or older and the wage he’d likely command would drop.

Ok ! Don't think Marseille are big payers anyway .
PSG are and that's about it.

 

[Need4speed]

If we sell him for £20m or whatever we would waste it. We all know that! Therefore just waste it by not selling him and watch him play for us for another year.

 

[jt64]

Cost benefit analysis innit. The cost benefit of keeping Ndiaye was sub consciously calculated in the summer transfer window and we tried to sell him, we saw the potential transfer fee receivable as being more valuable than what he could do on the pitch.

In the JTW the same calculation was made and we decided that the potential financial rewards to the club by keeping Ndiaye were more than selling him.

His value to the club now is from selling. He won't keep us up. He won't sign a new contract. He's now simply an asset that needs selling before 1st September.

Christ, it's really not that simple. Answer me these simple questions:

a) What offer would you accept
b) As a percentage, how often do we stay up if we keep Ndiaye
c) How much does that fall if we don't

I'm going to hazard a guess that your answers will point to a combined "must take x million" and "set y million on fire" mentality where y>x, but prove me wrong

 

[bonobo]

I think we need to get a lot better at selling players when they have value. But I just want to keep enjoying watch Ndiaye playing for the Blades as long we can keep him. I don't know if he keeps us up or not, or if we can realistically strengthen the squad with funds we could get for him. But there are rare pleasures in football, especially as a Blade... and he is one of them. There has to be some room for sentiment in football ;-)

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Christ, it's really not that simple. Answer me these simple questions:

a) What offer would you accept: £10m to £15m with add ons. Done aggressively & quickly. He can sign for another club, for free in JTW.

b) As a percentage, how often do we stay up if we keep Ndiaye: 0%, we are woefully short all over, and I mean woefully short. We loaned 3 players in & are looking at losing another 6 players at the end of their contracts. If the transfer budget is correct we'll struggle to get 30 points with Ndiaye & finish bottom. You know my mantra to stay up, 38 points won, no less than 40 goals scored, no more than 60 goals conceded.

c) How much does that fall if we don't: Without him we'll get 20 points & finish bottom.

I'm going to hazard a guess that your answers will point to a combined "must take x million" and "set y million on fire" mentality where y>x, but prove me wrong

 

[From the pig end]

We're fans, it's not our money.
Of course we're willing to gamble and keep him.
If he isn't our best player he's definitely our most entertaining (I think he's both).

What is a positive though is that the Prince gambled this year already hearing his recent interview. He could have cashed in during the last 2 windows but said that promotion was more important, maybe he'll have the same thoughts with staying up.

The takeover throws everything out though, anything is possible.

 

[blades78]

Don't care if he goes the free at the end of next season. I want to see him wearing a blade's shirt in the best league in the world.

 

[jt64]

So what I have learned today is that Nicolaus_Copernicus has indicated that we are absolutely certain to be relegated, regardless of what we do with Ndiaye, and that I should put my entire net worth on that eventuality and make a roughly 35% return on my investment in just one year risk free, potentially more if I look at more than one bookmaker. That, or he's a clueless troll who refuses to engage in sensible discussion

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

So what I have learned today is that Nicolaus_Copernicus has indicated that we are absolutely certain to be relegated, regardless of what we do with Ndiaye, and that I should put my entire net worth on that eventuality and make a roughly 35% return on my investment in just one year risk free, potentially more if I look at more than one bookmaker. That, or he's a clueless troll who refuses to engage in sensible discussion

You've lost me. You asked me what I thought we would do next season with Ndiaye playing for us (I took that to mean him playing for us & the spending of our likely transfer budget). I said we'll get circa 30 points and get relegated. You then asked me what I thought we'd do without him (again I imagined the likely transfer budget). I said we'd get circa 20 points and get relegated. That means that i rate Ndaiye and think that he is worth 10 points to us over a 38 game season. He has an influence, but not one that is sufficient to keep us up.

Firstly, I wasn't advising anyone to gamble on my predictions. Secondly, that was my honest attempt to answer your question and not an attempt to troll anyone. Thirdly, i'm not a clueless troll who refuses to engage in sensible discussion. I answered your questions.

I don't know what your view of reality or PL level football is, but as I said elsewhere on this forum before, 38 points is needed to be competitive in staying up. When you examine the previous league tables, that figure is usually achieved by scoring no less than 40 goals (give or take a couple) and conceding no more than 60 goals (again give or take a couple). The current squad as it finished the championship season isn't/wasn't capable of that, and the current squad minus Doyle, McAtee and Clark isn't capable of that.

The first year in the PL (19/20) we achieved 9th place with 54 points and 39 goals scored & 39 conceded. The 2nd season (20/21) we achieved 23 points with 20 goals scored and 63 conceded. I think that this current squad is comparable, if not slightly inferior to the the one of 20/21.

I've openly said it, the deadwood needs releasing and our squad needs at least £75m if not £100m spending on it during the summer to make it competitive,

 

[Rodley]

You've lost me. You asked me what I thought we would do next season with Ndiaye playing for us (I took that to mean him playing for us & the spending of our likely transfer budget). I said we'll get circa 30 points and get relegated. You then asked me what I thought we'd do without him (again I imagined the likely transfer budget). I said we'd get circa 20 points and get relegated. That means that i rate Ndaiye and think that he is worth 10 points to us over a 38 game season. He has an influence, but not one that is sufficient to keep us up.

Firstly, I wasn't advising anyone to gamble on my predictions. Secondly, that was my honest attempt to answer your question and not an attempt to troll anyone. Thirdly, i'm not a clueless troll who refuses to engage in sensible discussion. I answered your questions.

I don't know what your view of reality or PL level football is, but as I said elsewhere on this forum before, 38 points is needed to be competitive in staying up. When you examine the previous league tables, that figure is usually achieved by scoring no less than 40 goals (give or take a couple) and conceding no more than 60 goals (again give or take a couple). The current squad as it finished the championship season isn't/wasn't capable of that, and the current squad minus Doyle, McAtee and Clark isn't capable of that.

I've openly said it, the deadwood needs releasing and our squad needs at least £75m if not £100m spending on it during the summer to make it competitive,

Largely agree with that. £20m is a pittance. May as well stick that in the training ground or Academy and accept we finish bottom. This is why the fatal error was hitching our wagon to Dozy - wasted a lot of time when could have been exploring or progressing other interested parties.

I’d keep Ndiaye though. I want to see him play in the Premier League in the red & white.

 

[SUFCScorecard]

I'm not sure I agree that if we sell him this summer it will be a massively discounted amount. If he is willing to move this summer then I think there will be enough suitors to get a solid price without a large discount. If you only have 1 or 2 buyers then there is always the threat they will wait you out and take him for free, if there are 5+ (and I think there would be) and its known he is willing to move, then it just becomes a normal market where buyers are trying to outbid each other.

I think 25m would be the max we get for him, but think it would be more like 20m. Ndiaye is still unproven at the highest level, he didn't set the world cup on fire (he did fine), and other than a successful cameo against Spurs, and thankless running against City hasn't had a chance to show he can hurt elite defences.

 

[robbiez666]

If we sold Ndiaye for £20 million and invested the money on 3 good players for the future, it would be worth it.

 

[Champagneblade]

There are 3 scenarios. Lets assume we get 20m for him if we sell this summer, and 130m for staying up.

Keep him and get relegated	0
Keep him and stay up	130m
Sell him	20m

The deal I would offer him for a 1 year extension would be an increase in wage (lets say an incremental 4m taking him to around 100k), a large survival bonus (5m), and a commitment to give him 25% of any transfer fee we obtain in 2024.

Keep him and get relegated	0 - 4m (wages) + 15m (Transfer fee less Ili's cut) = 11m
Keep him and stay up	130 - 4 (wages) + 15m (Transfer fee less Ili's cut) - 5m (PL survival bonus) = 136m
Sell him	20m

Ili would pocket 15m if we stayed up and sold him for 20m in the summer of 2024, as much as the highest paid players in the Premier League.

Interesting certainly. How much is a club going to pay him individually on a free?

Realistically is a club going to give him a 15m signing on fee? If it doesn’t come off for him as well as we’d like in the PL is he going to get that sort of money, that would also be my question.

We see him every week and appreciate somewhat through rose tinted specs. I just wonder if other teams see him as good as we do.

Some might look at Gyokeres and say he scored more and assisted more. They might look at Akpom and see he scores more and also has high dribbling stats.

I wonder if we have a favourable season of there is any possibility to keep him? You’d say that Palace and Zaha is an example. They’ve managed to keep a player of his caliber for a long time.

Unless he’s simply got his heart set on joining Marseilles. Supports them, can join for free, will do well in their league, arguable better than Champ but not as good as Prem and he’ll be in the Champions League.

 

[Tarqs]

Those saying sell him for 15-20m....

Gets us Callum Robinson/Burke, Ben Osborn and Luke Freeman.......

So.... do we risk selling and investing well or just keep him. I'd rather keep and enjoy a season.

 

[robbiez666]

Those saying sell him for 15-20m....

Gets us Callum Robinson/Burke, Ben Osborn and Luke Freeman.......

So.... do we risk selling and investing well or just keep him. I'd rather keep and enjoy a season.

and if we go down and lose him on a free, where are those players coming from? Ditto with Berge.

You're basically gambling the medium term future of the club.

 

[Tarqs]

and if we go down and lose him on a free, where are those players coming from? Ditto with Berge.

You're basically gambling the medium term future of the club.

Gambling by not selling him and giving us our best chance of survival..

Or sell and get 3 likely lads as mentioned, go down and were fucked anyway.

I'd rather give us the best chance of staying up, and thay involves keeping our best player.