If SOD's performance is anything to go by...

[1danewhitehouse]

thing Im discussing is why weve regressed under nigel 2, the momentum has swung the wrong way
being 5th logic is it was a small progressive step to get in that top 4 , but weve sunk to mid table

1. An unusually low points tally was required last season to finish 5th.

2. We have sold Jamie Murphy- Our only bit of pace/creativity. Our only real outlet- despite your protestations that he wouldn’t be missed, he is.

3. Other less significant players such as Holt, S. Davies, Doyle, B. Davies have also moved on.

4. It was Clough’s squad with some players who follow him around. Some will have decided to sulk after his sacking.

5. Jose Baxter is a fucking idiot.



All plenty good reasons for the small dip in performance this year compared to last year. We’ll only know if Nigel 2 is any good if and when he gets the chance to bin these losers off and if he gets a bit of backing from the board.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

whats changed in my opinion
I thought under a GOOD manager we could improve our currenmt players with a couple of good additions to ensure a play off spot

Ive not changed anything but come to the realisation Adkins is taking us backwards , not forwards
we have 5 or 6 players good enough to challenge as weve proved by finishing 5th last year
we should have,,, under a good manager, improved 10 per cent
Instead weve regressed
I never said we were really good last season
more bollocks your attributing to me I never said
I said we were good enough to finish 5th, which is I believe what they call a fact
not the stuff you make up

Teams don’t improve 10% when they sell their best player every summer. Regardless of who the manager is. Clough had a better points to game ration in 2013-14 than in 2014-15. That’s because we sold his best player in the summer as well as not retaining the better players he had on loan. He couldn’t get replacements that were as good or better so the team became worse. It’s been happening for years. We’ve been regressing for years. NA is only a very small part of that puzzle.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

but you intimated they were 3 good results in 50
your the one making it hard, why say they are only 3
bradford away barnsley away swindon and preston at home all cracking performances, for starters
but no you dismissed them all in your we were and are totally shit with not an ounce of talent argument

´Nigel got them on occasions to look good , you say they never did
but he did on far more occasions than this season

Time to brush up on the literacy I think btl. You pointed out 3 games. He said that’s 3 games out of 50. He never, at any point said “we only played well for 3 games out of 50”, just that the 3 you mentioned were as biased sample of 3 from 50 and that very often we didn’t perform. You’ve now highlighted a few more games where we played fairly well. But in response to that I’ll give you Bradford (H), Yeovil away (A), Crewe (H) , Fleetwood (H), Peterborough (H), Notts County (H), Oldham (H), Coventry (A), Wallsall (H), Swindon (A), Chesterfield (H & A), Barnsley (H), Port Vale (A), Gillingham (A), Preston (H- FA Cup), Wallsall (A- JPT). That’s 17 games over the course of last season where we ranged from poor to atrocious. I’ve not included the home defeats against Bristol or MK Dons as they were at least against relatively good teams and were narrow defeats. I’ve also not included the draw at home to Coventry because we played most of the game with 10 men but if you did include them, that’s particularly 20 disappointing results in one season. Let’s call a spade a spade and acknowledge that in the most part, the players from last season and this are no more than very mediocre league 1 players.

 

[blade too long]

Time to brush up on the literacy I think btl. You pointed out 3 games. He said that’s 3 games out of 50. He never, at any point said “we only played well for 3 games out of 50”, just that the 3 you mentioned were as biased sample of 3 from 50 and that very often we didn’t perform. You’ve now highlighted a few more games where we played fairly well. But in response to that I’ll give you Bradford (H), Yeovil away (A), Crewe (H) , Fleetwood (H), Peterborough (H), Notts County (H), Oldham (H), Coventry (A), Wallsall (H), Swindon (A), Chesterfield (H & A), Barnsley (H), Port Vale (A), Gillingham (A), Preston (H- FA Cup), Wallsall (A- JPT). That’s 17 games over the course of last season where we ranged from poor to atrocious. I’ve not included the home defeats against Bristol or MK Dons as they were at least against relatively good teams and were narrow defeats. I’ve also not included the draw at home to Coventry because we played most of the game with 10 men but if you did include them, that’s particularly 20 disappointing results in one season. Let’s call a spade a spade and acknowledge that in the most part, the players from last season and this are no more than very mediocre league 1 players.

yes I dont doubt theres a number of shit displays however I can produce a similar list of dog awful displays in promotion years , 5=0 defeats at west ham 4=0 tonking at leeds terrible home defeas to southend ,,my point was we under nigel 1 occasionally played well and looked a good side , under nigel 2 theres nothing to grab hold of to see how we are moving forward

3 games 7 games 12 games or more in which ever we were good to watch compares to something like 2 convincing displays under nigel 2

the disappointing displays you get every season
the lack of good ones is my worry

you stand back and say how has Adkins upped our displays
and the answer is


not at all

 

[1danewhitehouse]

yes I dont doubt theres a number of shit displays however I can produce a similar list of dog awful displays in promotion years , 5=0 defeats at west ham 4=0 tonking at leeds terrible home defeas to southend ,,my point was we under nigel 1 occasionally played well and looked a good side , under nigel 2 theres nothing to grab hold of to see how we are moving forward

3 games 7 games 12 games or more in which ever we were good to watch compares to something like 2 convincing displays under nigel 2

the disappointing displays you get every season
the lack of good ones is my worry

you stand back and say how has Adkins upped our displays
and the answer is


not at all

Yes you get poor games every season but they were the norm under Clough. We've lost a matchwinner from that squad and not replaced him so we're not sneaking 1 goal wins because we don't have someone to make it happen. If we'd had Murphy in the team we might have nicked winners in those 0-0 or 1-1 games this season that would take us roughly on par with Clough's team.

We'll see what Adkins can bring to the table if he gets a crack at rebuilding the squad in the summer.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Good post. The only part I would question is the judgment of managers based on signings. It’s often hard to determine where the fault lays on such issues. We know Clough wanted to keep Maguire and to sign Brayford and COG in the summer of 2014. Those above the manager conduct the deals for players and it seems we generally failed to get his first choice and for every first choice we seemed to sign 2 back up choices. I’m not sure who’s decision it was to go down that route. But I suspect Clough wouldn’t have brought the likes of Alcock, Higdon etc. to the club if his preferred choices had been landed.


Adkins inherited a very big squad, didn’t have control of the retained list, had his best player immediately sold and had, what has proven to be a bunch of yellow bellied losers to work with. It’s understandable that he went for players who he knew who he believed would add some much needed character (Hammond and Sharp in particular but Edgar is an international captain) as well as height (Woolford, Edgar, Sammon and Hammond) as these were both attributes we were desperately lacking. Unfortunately, since their time with Adkins previously, Hammond and Woolford have lost a yard limiting their effectiveness. I think he hoped they would galvanise other, more talented members of the squad into performing.


We all know it’s a re-building job in the summer as opposed to the sticking plaster job he’s been doing to try to get us up this season. Let’s hope the approach changes to reflect that.

I think what I mean is that a manager fails if he (or the club as you say) gets the signings wrong. Everything follows on from adding value or otherwise to the squad. Over the years we have signed so many players who have not added value and it affects morale and undermines the manager.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I think what I mean is that a manager fails if he (or the club as you say) gets the signings wrong. Everything follows on from adding value or otherwise to the squad. Over the years we have signed so many players who have not added value and it affects morale and undermines the manager.

Agree wholeheartedly. I really hope this is the summer where we get our recruitment right. Otherwise it'll be another 2-3 years before we get another go at it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Agree wholeheartedly. I really hope this is the summer where we get our recruitment right. Otherwise it'll be another 2-3 years before we get another go at it.

We have to see if the recruitment of Adkins is right. Nopigfansintown says he's a strong character (although personally I've seen little of that with him constantly bringing players who've let him down on the pitch, back) so maybe he is the one to be given longer. He's certainly not the cheap option (Blackwell, Speed, Adams, Weir) and paying him off so soon after Clough will simply pull money away from the player budget. I'm sure most want a root and branch clear out though which could well leave us with a few youngsters in the team. The rumours over the likes of Collins etc getting another year are worrying as is the permanent signing of Hammond as although Adkins relies on him as captain we can't afford to spend that sort of money on an ageing player when we could be looking out for a younger player, much more mobile and hungry for a lot less. Isn't that Turnbulls expertise?

I've seen all the shocking performances and leave the ground thinking he has to go. In the cold light of day though, it's clear certain players are letting him down, sacking him cuts the budget further so he may still, despite the results, be the man for the job, at least as things stand.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Agree wholeheartedly. I really hope this is the summer where we get our recruitment right. Otherwise it'll be another 2-3 years before we get another go at it.

Then my reasoning gets a bit outlandish when I reckon the Head Scout is almost as important as the manager. Nobody has ever agreed with that.

Anyway, I'm quite impressed with Turnbull's first recruit, Baptiste. If he's available for next season then he could be a great addittion with his experience at higher levels. Of course he has had that big injury but fractures heal better than ligaments and we wouldn't get a sniff of someone like him without some sort of baggage. He's 30 year old.

 

[blade too long]

Yes you get poor games every season but they were the norm under Clough. We've lost a matchwinner from that squad and not replaced him so we're not sneaking 1 goal wins because we don't have someone to make it happen. If we'd had Murphy in the team we might have nicked winners in those 0-0 or 1-1 games this season that would take us roughly on par with Clough's team.

We'll see what Adkins can bring to the table if he gets a crack at rebuilding the squad in the summer.

hes had as long as Clough got
clough got us to cup semis and a play off
Adkins has took us backwards


one player wasnt going to change that much Murphy played at Gillingham lets not forget

No ones yet explained what Adkins has added to us in any way

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Then my reasoning gets a bit outlandish when I reckon the Head Scout is almost as important as the manager. Nobody has ever agreed with that.

Anyway, I'm quite impressed with Turnbull's first recruit, Baptiste. If he's available for next season then he could be a great addittion with his experience at higher levels. Of course he has had that big injury but fractures heal better than ligaments and we wouldn't get a sniff of someone like him without some sort of baggage. He's 30 year old.

The manager , head coach and chief scout are the equal most important set within any club.. Especially BDTBL.

This Baps fella will be a bloody good asset . With him do we need Hammond .?

On performances are Wilkins and the back room coaching staff up to it , or is Adkins trying to be all things to all men and doing too much being part of his downfall with poor tactics , substitutions , team selections , loans .

We all desperately want a manager to succeed at the lane , and none of us want him to fail, but somebody somewhere is the weak link. Is it just the players .

UTB

 

[PeteBlade]

hes had as long as Clough

No. No he hasn't.

 

[Bartleby]

you know what I mean
had we won the games at bury rochdale etc we should have with the players playing to their capabilities instead of looking like theyve never met
we should be in there
we are even by our poor standards 10 points short of what we should have if we were playing to something like we were a year ago

its so frustrating when you know they are capable of being better than how they are performing

Just makes it all the worse knowing we have been shit in a shit league that was there for the taking, so a point not worth dwelling on unless you want to take the masochism of being a Blade to new depths.

 

[Bartleby]

hes had as long as Clough got

do you actually know what is happening with our club? Clough had 19 months, Adkins has been here 9.

 

[blade too long]

Clough improved us , we went forward. Not as far forward as we wanted but 7th to 5th and some cup joy.Adkins is taking us in reverse

 

[grafikhaus]

The Barnsley board kept there nerve with the manager who went to Bristol , but did not seem to try that hard to keep him.

Some good points there. When people show sympathy for a sacked manager, Barnsley kept faith with Lee Johnson as they lost 8 on the trot. He turned it round, got them performing again, climbing the table and into the JPT Final. As soon as Bristol City came a-poaching, Johnson repaid the board's faith by fucking off.

So look on the bright side. As poor as this season has been, we don't have to worry about anybody poaching Adkins.

 

[PeteBlade]

Clough improved us , we went forward. Not as far forward as we wanted but 7th to 5th and some cup joy.Adkins is taking us in reverse

And they've had the same time, have they?

 

[blade too long]

They both had one pre season to sort out the team.Cloughs first 7 months was a rescue act .he did prety wll in
You can only compare them from a full pre season and starting from that.on that premise Adkins has been disastrous.Overtaken by Scunthorpe last night..The horror goes ono

 

[PeteBlade]

They both had one pre season to sort out the team.Cloughs first 7 months was a rescue act .he did prety wll in
You can only compare them from a full pre season and starting from that.on that premise Adkins has been disastrous.Overtaken by Scunthorpe last night..The horror goes ono

His points to games ratio was worse in season 2 than in season one.

You've mistakenly claimed they've had the same amount of time which no matter how you dress it up is simply not true.

He'd need most of next season too, which he deserves to get.

 

[Sean Thornton]

They both had one pre season to sort out the team.Cloughs first 7 months was a rescue act .he did prety wll in
You can only compare them from a full pre season and starting from that.on that premise Adkins has been disastrous.Overtaken by Scunthorpe last night..The horror goes ono

 

[Slim Man]

His points to games ratio was worse in season 2 than in season one.

You've mistakenly claimed they've had the same amount of time which no matter how you dress it up is simply not true.

He'd need most of next season too, which he deserves to get.

While the truth isn't exactly sparkling I have no idea why people feel the need to lie. There is plenty to slag off without being a compulsive liar.

 

[PeteBlade]

While the truth isn't exactly sparkling I have no idea why people feel the need to lie. There is plenty to slag off without being a compulsive liar.

Totally agree, like you say, he's made plenty of mistakes and certainly things to pick up on but no idea why people need to make things up.

 

[HoodedClaw]

hes had as long as Clough got
clough got us to cup semis and a play off
Adkins has took us backwards


one player wasnt going to change that much Murphy played at Gillingham lets not forget

No ones yet explained what Adkins has added to us in any way

You've maintained that Adkins should be able to get more out of the players than what he has so far, but Clough had different players to get us to the Cup semis and PO.

I see no Coady, Doyle, Maguire or Murphy, so I don't see it as a valid comparison. You may have a point if NA had the same players as Clough did then but was getting them to perform as they are now.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

We have to see if the recruitment of Adkins is right. Nopigfansintown says he's a strong character (although personally I've seen little of that with him constantly bringing players who've let him down on the pitch, back) so maybe he is the one to be given longer. He's certainly not the cheap option (Blackwell, Speed, Adams, Weir) and paying him off so soon after Clough will simply pull money away from the player budget. I'm sure most want a root and branch clear out though which could well leave us with a few youngsters in the team. The rumours over the likes of Collins etc getting another year are worrying as is the permanent signing of Hammond as although Adkins relies on him as captain we can't afford to spend that sort of money on an ageing player when we could be looking out for a younger player, much more mobile and hungry for a lot less. Isn't that Turnbulls expertise?

I've seen all the shocking performances and leave the ground thinking he has to go. In the cold light of day though, it's clear certain players are letting him down, sacking him cuts the budget further so he may still, despite the results, be the man for the job, at least as things stand.

I think if Hammond signs, it will have to be on sensible terms. If he thinks he can do better elsewhere, let him go do that.


He might look better for us if we can get more mobile players around him. The thing Adkins seems to really value about him is his personality. I think Adkins sees him as being integral in building a team that is more than the sum of it’s parts. He doesn’t look a good footballer to me but hopefully he can help improve those around him and provide a positive example for people like Reed and Whiteman to aid their development.


I hope we sign a good share of young, up and coming players but they would need a handful who have been there and done it and have experience of winning things to guide them through. Hammond certainly has that.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Then my reasoning gets a bit outlandish when I reckon the Head Scout is almost as important as the manager. Nobody has ever agreed with that.

Anyway, I'm quite impressed with Turnbull's first recruit, Baptiste. If he's available for next season then he could be a great addittion with his experience at higher levels. Of course he has had that big injury but fractures heal better than ligaments and we wouldn't get a sniff of someone like him without some sort of baggage. He's 30 year old.

I’d say he has a significant role to play but not right up there with the manager. The manager has to decide how he wants to play, what attributes he’s looking for in the players to play his way and what personality traits are required. The scout simply tries to identify players that meet the requirements set out by the manager and reports on the players he’s found. The manager has to assess and decide whether they want to sign said players and then has to manage them into an effective team.


As for Baptiste, I don’t know that Turnbull gets the credit. Well maybe but about 7 years ago. Adkins said he tried to sign Baptiste from Mansfield when he was a Scunthorpe so he will have already known about him. The word was that Turnbull has been scouring Scandanavia and Holland for talent. His job is to identify players the manager doesn’t already know about or provide more comprehensive reports on someone the manager may be interested in. I note that in the past Adkins has thrown the net quite wide with signings like Hoijveld, Gazzaniga, Ramirez, Guly Do Prado etc. Let’s hope we see some benefit from Turnbull’s efforts in the summer.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

hes had as long as Clough got
clough got us to cup semis and a play off
Adkins has took us backwards


one player wasnt going to change that much Murphy played at Gillingham lets not forget

No ones yet explained what Adkins has added to us in any way

Why do you constantly feel the need to lie to try to reinforce your point? Adkins has been here for 9 months. 2 transfer windows, one of which the club failed to bring in a single player, the other one, they sold his best player as he was getting to know his squad. Clough was here for 19 months during which time he was able to sign about 20 permanent players and about 6 or 7 loans to Adkins’ 2 perms and 4 loans. The common theme is they both had their best players sold.


What Clough did do better than Adkins is make an impact on the players he inherited (Murphy the most notable). But he let himself down when he had the chance to build a promotion team with a relatively blank canvas in the summer of 2014. Adkins is yet to have that chance but if he’s kept on, it will come this summer.


To answer your question, Adkins has brought not much to the table so far. He’s managed some very average players to a very average standard. That’s why we’re bang in the middle of the league. But perhaps he will have a positive impact if given the chance to build a team in his own image. If we get rid now, we’ll have binned a manager who has proven success at other clubs before even seeing if he can do the job we want doing. And we’ll be back to scraping the barrel of managers as our reputation as a trigger happy club will just gather more momentum.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Clough improved us , we went forward. Not as far forward as we wanted but 7th to 5th and some cup joy.Adkins is taking us in reverse

We had a worse points to game ration in 2014-15 than under Clough in 2013-14. We didn’t move forward from spring 2014 to summer 2015. The final league position was just skewed by the Weir debacle. I don’t entirely blame Clough for that as had we kept Brayford, Coady and Maguire in the summer, we probably would have kicked on. The more pertinent part is that whoever has been manager, the squad has been weakened pretty much continuously year by year for the best part of a decade.


Why that means you have to lie about them having the same amount of time I don’t know.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

They both had one pre season to sort out the team.Cloughs first 7 months was a rescue act .he did prety wll in
You can only compare them from a full pre season and starting from that.on that premise Adkins has been disastrous.Overtaken by Scunthorpe last night..The horror goes ono

Adkins has a pre-season where he had been appointed in June, didn't get to see the players play live til their first pre-season friendly in July, didn't have control of the retained list and had about 40 professionals on the books. Then he had his best player sold.

Clough had 6 months to assess and alter the squad (Jan window before). He had control of the retained list and was working from a starting point of about 16 or so professionals on the books so plenty of room in the budget for new faces. He then got a full season with the squad he'd assembled to play the way he wanted them to play. Let's keep pretending that's the same.

For what it's worth. I'm not having a go at Clough , I don't think we should have sacked him (though I did think and still hope that Adkins is an improvement). But nor do I think we should be sacking Adkins based on his failings with this shambolic squad.

 

[Bladesway]

Totally agree, like you say, he's made plenty of mistakes and certainly things to pick up on but no idea why people need to make things up.

Because in the eyes of the increasing quantity of keyboard warriors on here it is more important to be right about something than anything else in the world. Hence "I told you Adkins was shit" is increasingly the mantra of the moron. Was the same with Clough and with Wilson etc etc.

 

[PeteBlade]

Because in the eyes of the increasing quantity of keyboard warriors on here it is more important to be right about something than anything else in the world. Hence "I told you Adkins was shit" is increasingly the mantra of the moron. Was the same with Clough and with Wilson etc etc.

At least with Barney on that score, he's been pretty consistent since early on.

What I find most amusing is those that have suddenly decided they knew he was wrong since before he started!

Don't know why some have the constant need to tell people they're right, whether they are or not.

I fall out with plenty but if I'm wrong I'm wrong and I'll happily hold my hands up.