How we do improve our strikeforce? Isit really the problem?

[Bladezz]

Talking to another poster on here about transfer rumours etc for next season. I am the same as everyone think we seem to lack something up top but to be fair it isn't goals from our 2 strikers. If we are realistic we aren't going to sign really anyone from that list. The only one who would have a slight chance is Bowen just as Hull are struggling (I know nothing about him).

Our third highest goal scorer is Clayton Donaldson with 5, who actually has the best minutes to goal ratio of our strikers 1 goal every 172 minutes. Clarke is a goal every 175 minutes and Sharp is a goal every 180 Minutes. Not Donaldson biggest fan but his records for a sub seem very good.

Under that we have Brooks who has scored 3 and so has Lundstram.

Any Striker on the below list I think is unachievable, and to be fair Sharp has enough goals to be considered one of the good strikers in the league.

Championship top Goal scorers:

Vydra 19
Reid 18
Clarke 18
Grabban 17
Jota 16
Waghorn 14
Sessengon 14
Adomoah 14
Bowen 13
Assombalonga 13
Bonatini 12
Sharp 12

 

[SteveBlade]

Yeah, they're doing well.

The problem is, the way we play, and the chances we make reflect that of a side who should be comfortably in the top six.

Let's be reight. We've had a few games this season where we haven't turned up, and probably four where we've been well beaten by a superior team. The rest of the time we've tended to look better at football than our opponents.

The results don't mirror that. We've lost and drawn games which we should have won. This is generally down to the ratio of chances finished. The defending is often questionable as fuck, but we've failed to kill so many games off through poor finishing.

Leon and Billy are good, they're bloody solid strikers that are doing a job for us. Sometimes they're very good. But they're not that good.

Leon went god knows how many games without scoring, and Billy is prone to disappearing in matches. Don can do a job, and has scored some important goals for us. But he's ineffective more often than not.

They can all be really fucking good sometimes. That's the issue, they're not really fucking good often enough, which is evident in the number of games where we've played well, but missed numerous chances.

Confuckingsistent. None of our strikers are.

 

[Houston_Blade]

If they repeat the goals of this season then we probably just need another 10-15 goals from somewhere else. Problem is Billy doesn't seem to be in Wilder's longer term plans and I don't see him sticking around to be sat on the bench when he can probably drop down a league and score 20 goals plus for someone. Leon I can't see getting the same haul again next season, he's had an exceptional season by his standards and unfortunately it might not be repeated, he still has a big part to play though, hence the new contract.

Clayton is unlikely to get more than between 5-10 goals as a bit part player. Ched, who the fuck knows! I'd say we need to bring in around 20-30 goals next season if we want to repeat this year's total. Wilder had better get reading "Moneyball" and giving Billy Beane a call!

 

[Bashar Al Asaba]

All our strikers are shit because they haven't scored every single chance they've had.

Incidentally, Mo Salah missed a sitter on Saturday. If their fans are anything like our guttersnipes , they'll want him carted off by the end of the season.

 

[Jehovah]

It's frustrating. People keep saying they don't have the quality. Sharp and Clarke have 30 championship goals between them. That's got to be one of the best ratios in the league, so clearly they can finish.

As of late though they have both been guilty of missing absolutely ridiculous chances. You have a player like Clarke who can score 4 in one half then miss sitter after sitter there after.

 

[Bladezz]

Is it the Duffy role needs to be bringing in 8+ goals?

Fleck only has 2 and has played pretty much every game?

Defenders scoring from set pieces?

Freeman to score more than Baldock? but lower our attacking play?

A free kick taker who we think has a chance of scoring?

Think there a few areas we will no doubt look at.

 

[SteveBlade]

It's frustrating. People keep saying they don't have the quality. Sharp and Clarke have 30 championship goals between them. That's got to be one of the best ratios in the league, so clearly they can finish.

As of late though they have both been guilty of missing absolutely ridiculous chances. You have a player like Clarke who can score 4 in one half then miss sitter after sitter there after.

Clarke scored 4 against Hull, 3 against Fulham and 2 against Wednesday.

Half of his goals this season came in those three games.

I fucking love the bloke for his performances, and goals early in the season. But he's scored 9 goals in the other 34 games he's played in. He's a reflection of how this season has gone for us.

 

[Roygbiv]

Both Sharp and Clarke have done excellent this season. Far better than most of us imagined. I think it goes further than the strikers to be honest. It's often our final ball that's poor or our midfields reluctance to shoot or get into the box.


That said Clarke has missed some absolutely incredible chances this season. He really could be on about 25 goals this season.

 

[Bladezz]

Clarke scored 4 against Hull, 3 against Fulham and 2 against Wednesday.

Half of his goals this season came in those three games.

I fucking love the bloke for his performances, and goals early in the season. But he's scored 9 goals in the other 34 games he's played in. He's a reflection of how this season has gone for us.

9 in 34 is good for a target man who doesn't take penalties? Even when you do take away half his goals it shows how well he actually has done.

 

[SteveBlade]

9 in 34 is good for a target man who doesn't take penalties? Even when you do take away half his goals it shows how well he actually has done.

I don't know if it's good, and he's not a target man. At best it's alright but well below his early season standards. Like we have been as a whole.

 

[wizadry]

Our strikers have had more than enough chances and we’ve created enough chances to win most games this season but we need the rest of the team to chip in to take some of the workload off them.

 

[Deleted member 1486]

Clarke scored 4 against Hull, 3 against Fulham and 2 against Wednesday.

Half of his goals this season came in those three games.

I fucking love the bloke for his performances, and goals early in the season. But he's scored 9 goals in the other 34 games he's played in. He's a reflection of how this season has gone for us.

Alan Shearer didn't score a single goal in any of the 300+ games he didn't score in. Fucking donkey.

 

[Davalon]

Talking to another poster on here about transfer rumours etc for next season. I am the same as everyone think we seem to lack something up top but to be fair it isn't goals from our 2 strikers. If we are realistic we aren't going to sign really anyone from that list. The only one who would have a slight chance is Bowen just as Hull are struggling (I know nothing about him).

Our third highest goal scorer is Clayton Donaldson with 5, who actually has the best minutes to goal ratio of our strikers 1 goal every 172 minutes. Clarke is a goal every 175 minutes and Sharp is a goal every 180 Minutes. Not Donaldson biggest fan but his records for a sub seem very good.

Under that we have Brooks who has scored 3 and so has Lundstram.

Any Striker on the below list I think is unachievable, and to be fair Sharp has enough goals to be considered one of the good strikers in the league.

Championship top Goal scorers:

Vydra 19
Reid 18
Clarke 18
Grabban 17
Jota 16
Waghorn 14
Sessengon 14
Adomoah 14
Bowen 13
Assombalonga 13
Bonatini 12
Sharp 12

In all fairness if in August you'd have told me Clarke would be in the running for the league's top scorer at this point, and Sharp also in double figures after the limited time he's been on the pitch compared to last season, I'd have ordered you a padded cell.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

The unit up front for Hull should do it. Dicko. Then hold on to absolutely everyone else in our squad and we should do well.

Get Jamal on a season long loan again, minimum - if not permanent.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

It's frustrating. People keep saying they don't have the quality. Sharp and Clarke have 30 championship goals between them. That's got to be one of the best ratios in the league, so clearly they can finish.

Yep. I’d argue that our lack of goals elsewhere in the team, and our tendency at times to give goals away cheaply, is more of an issue than the strikers – though we should be looking to improve in every department if we can. Last season we had goals from the likes of Freeman and O’Connell alongside Sharp’s brilliant haul – if you look beyond the strikers the best contributors are Brooks and Lundstram with 3 each. That’s fairly woeful tbh – O’Connell in particular has completely lost his threat at set-pieces, our wingbacks haven’t taken a number of chances, and as excellent as Fleck’s general game has been he really should be scoring more than he is.

 

[Revolution]

In all fairness if in August you'd have told me Clarke would be in the running for the league's top scorer at this point, and Sharp also in double figures after the limited time he's been on the pitch compared to last season, I'd have ordered you a padded cell.

And to put it another way, if you told me before the season began that they'd get 30 league goals between them I'd have been very pleased with that.

Here's a bit of a goals comparison:

2017-8 (so far): Clarke 18, Sharp 12, everyone else 28
2016-7: Clarke 7, Sharp 30, everyone else 65

Clarke and Sharp have played poorly on occasion, and missed some great chances recently, true, but they aren't for me the major problem:

The key changes:

- The wing backs scored 14 last season (Freeman 10, Lafferty 4). This season they have 1 each.
- Duffy and Fleck got 10 between them last season. this season they have 4 between them.
- The centre halves scored 12 between them last season (EEB 5, O'Connell 4, Basham 2, Wilson 1). I think they've got 4 between them this season.

You usually expect goals for a promoted side to decrease - particularly where the personnel doesn't change much - but that's a lot of goals to lose. Midfield and Defence are not taking up the slack this year.

Which brings me on to another thought - I love 3-5-2 and our roving centre halves, but where neither wing back can assist or score much, should you persist with it?

 

[SB_90]

we need some experience of the division easier said that done because money is no guarantee look at Wednesday at proof of that 10m Rhodes, huge wages on fletcher & hooper they been huge flops. but then service been hit & miss because there has been matches this season when we have made hundreds of chances & then other games when we could've played all night but never scored

ive heard rumours from alan biggs about possible interest in shane long

 

[Sean Thornton]

we need some experience of the division easier said that done because money is no guarantee look at Wednesday at proof of that 10m Rhodes, huge wages on fletcher & hooper they been huge flops. but then service been hit & miss because there has been matches this season when we have made hundreds of chances & then other games when we could've played all night but never scored

ive heard rumours from alan biggs about possible interest in shane long

Biggs has probably stumbled across sitwell s post from last year. Six months late is about right for him.

 

[Baaaaaaa Blades]

agree with several above
BS and LC have both been excellent this season

Midfield and Wing backs ( and the odd one from the CB's also) need to be scoring much more ,exp really the Duffy role -
However if Duffman scored more he wouldn't be in this league and one of the his 2 goals this year has been of one of the best ever !

Wingbacks inparticular for me , the way Freeman played last year he was often in the box and scored many goals from less than 10 yards, IMO this is where Stevens and Baldock need to be more - i suppose it is easier to gamble in the league below but esp when we play Leon and Brooks, they both come out to the wings and come back for the ball , so others must make up the numbers in the box, Saturday there was a prime example when we had played the ball nicely around and then i looked into the box and I think Brooks was there on his own surrounded by 5/6 blue shirts so we carried on passing it around and no cross went in!

 

[SB_90]

Biggs has probably stumbled across sitwell s post from last year. Six months late is about right for him.

Maybe. But he said he heard this whisper last summer. But to me that move sounded highly unrealistic as why would 30yr old international striker who finished 8th in premier league want to leave for a newly promoted championship sude but this summer is possible

 

[I should coco]

But to me that move sounded highly unrealistic as why would 30yr old international striker who finished 8th in premier league want to leave for a newly promoted championship sude but this summer is possible

Possible?

Money tree again?

Long will be on £40k a week at S'oton and there is not a snowball in Hell's chance of his coming to us.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Maybe. But he said he heard this whisper last summer. But to me that move sounded highly unrealistic as why would 30yr old international striker who finished 8th in premier league want to leave for a newly promoted championship sude but this summer is possible

Did he mention it last summer? If not, why not?

I agree though. Made no sense from Longs point of view.

 

[Jan Age]

As others have said chance conversion rate is poor and should be much higher for our strikers. I would bet you could drop two strikers (of similar ability) in to the system we play and they would score a similar number to Leon and Billy. The issue is we need better strikers if we want to convert more. A bit of pace wouldn't go a miss either.

Add to this our midfield don't score enough and never seem to arrive in the box at the right time (if at all)... I put this down to missing a midfielder to 'sit' allowing others to go forward.

And don't get me started on corners....

All things that can be worked on over the summer so hopefully we come back as serious top 6 challengers but this season has been great.

 

[snootyfenooty]

The arguments for and against Billy and Leon this season are irrelevant for next season. They are both getting on and will need replacing sooner rather than later. One will be 34, the other 33 when next season reaches a critical point. It is up to the management to pre-empt the inevitable drop off in form from these guys. What the fuck are people expecting from them.

 

[Stretch]

As mentioned above it's lack of goals from elsewhere that is the problem. Last season we were absolutely prolific from defence, I honestly cannot remember a United side scoring so many from that area. 11 from Freeman and about a dozen from EEL, Bash, JOC and Lafferty combined. We were never going to repeat that this season so it was even more important for the midfield to step up and score more which hasn't really happened yet.

As for the strike force, Clarke and Sharp have had a brilliant season collectively and certainly deserve another crack at the whip next season.
Donaldson has done ok but will probably leave in the summer, Wilson not really done owt and will be off, Ched needs game time so I would loan him out next season to see how he does. Both Lavery and Hanson will be gone.

Going forward, in addition to Clarke and Sharp we need 2 more strikers; 1 who basically has Clayton's attributes but from 5 years ago and a second who is an Adam Armstrong type. Add Brooks into the mix as the 5th option and I think we are good to go.

 

[Revolution]

As others have said chance conversion rate is poor and should be much higher for our strikers.

This is not true. I know in recent weeks chances have been missed, but over the course of the season the stats show our conversion rates have been very good - particularly Sharp's I think. Beans alludes to this on his podcast.

The problem is chance creation, which you also point out. We don't create enough, for reasons that are relatively obvious e.g. Poor set pieces and wing backs who won't or can't cross.

 

[Beans]

This is not true. I know in recent weeks chances have been missed, but over the course of the season the stats show our conversion rates have been very good - particularly Sharp's I think. Beans alludes to this on his podcast.

The problem is chance creation, which you also point out. We don't create enough, for reasons that are relatively obvious e.g. Poor set pieces and wing backs who won't or can't cross.

All credit to my regular podcast guest on this but you're correct - up to the Boro game we were 7th in the league on conversion rate at 16%, above Bristol City (15%), Middlesbrough (15%), Millwall (13%) and Preston (13%). Individually Sharp and Clarke rank 4th and 7th in the league for conversion rate. These aren't my numbers, just quoting from an extensive and very interesting article that my aforementioned guest wrote last week, which I strongly recommend

Linky

 

[Ricky]

Don't worry, I'll sort it out for us.

What we want is a 4 out and out strikers with others who can play up top to supplement them.

Clarke and Sharp have to stick around, they're experienced centre forwards who score goals. Then we have to keep Brooks. The rest can go.

So we're looking at signing 2 or 3 attackers who are capable of playing centrally.

Firstly we need a 'main' striker as I don't anticipate Clarke repeating his exceptional efforts this season. This will be a challenge. Our best hope may be a loan, Ollie McBurnie would be the ideal choice, although I think his contract might be up at Swansea, in which case any compensation fee decided would be worth paying.

Then we should look for a striker who seems like a good 'punt', ideally one with pace. Mo Eisa looks like the best bet.

So that'd be 4 centre forwards plus Brooks.

Additionally I'd look to sign another attacking player, Sammy Ameobi on a free would be a superb signing to cover every attacking position, and he'd become a regular if he played to his potential.

Strikers: McBurnie, Clarke, Sharp, Eisa, Ameobi, Brooks

That would be spot on. Good age blend and just about every attribute between them.


As for goals from elsewhere... Fleck needs to be getting at least 5, so does Duffy. Fleck needs to work on his right foot - it would get him an extra 2/3 goals a season.

We need more from set pieces. This can be helped by signing a set piece taker, like Ben Marshall. And working on it in training.

Then the centre halves and wing backs simply need to step up in the goalscoring department. I always expected it to be much harder in this league for them to score from set pieces especially, but O'Connell, Baldock and Stevens should have managed more than 4 between them. Basham and Stearman have done OK with 2 each, but 8 goals from our regular back 5 isn't enough.

At the start of this season we couldn't realistically have expected to score more than we have. Clarke and Sharp have surpassed expectations. But now we're here, you have to think we should've had more from elsewhere. At least another 5-10. And how valuable might they have been!

 

[Ricky]

By the way, if Leon ends up top scorer he should be in the Championship team of the season.

Why the hell don't they just wait until the end to decide the awards?

 

[Houston_Blade]

Is it the Duffy role needs to be bringing in 8+ goals?

Fleck only has 2 and has played pretty much every game?

Defenders scoring from set pieces?

Freeman to score more than Baldock? but lower our attacking play?

A free kick taker who we think has a chance of scoring?

Think there a few areas we will no doubt look at.

Obviously if you can a right wing back to score double figures it helps like last season but I really think we need to get scouting creatively for 30 goals from 2 or 3 forwards. Don’t ask me who but that’s why I’m not a scout.