How is Chris Doing

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BladeByChoice

BladeByChoice

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Good morning and a happy new year Blades.

I’ve been thinking about the effect Chris has had on the club since his return and reading quite a few Wilder threads with reasonable arguments from all sides.

From a sporting point of view many are saying Wilder will give us a tiny change of staying up and if/when we do go down it will be fighting, with self-respect and the desire to destroy the Championship next season.

One thing I think most of us can agree on is that the Prince is a shrewd business man and only sees the club as a business asset. As of now, we are for sale, so from a business point of view appointing Wilder must increase the ROI.

From a success aspect, its only numbers that matter, and so far, 6 games in we are worse off than we were with Hekky.

After Hekky’s last game: bottom of the league 4 points from 17th.

Now: bottom of the league 7 points from 17th and six less games to play.

So looking at the numbers, here are the stats for Chris for his entire managerial career from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Wilder

Total.png

And here are the stats since his return to the Blades 6 games ago.

December.png

I’m a great believer in the phrase ‘Lies, damned lies, and statistics’ so I’ll update the chart monthly and we can all interpret the numbers that best supports our personal agenda and argue to our hearts content.

UTB.
 

Mario1889 said:
As you’ve pointed out, when Wilder came in we were 4 points from safety, we are now 7 points from safety.

Let’s be honest, he isn’t pulling up any trees.
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4 points from safety having been battered by Bournemouth and Burnley
7 points from safety after much more respectable displays v Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City

Lies, damned lies...
 
He says the right things, well mostly, but hard to judge when three teams we played are top 3. Luton game was bad. Should have played better for the 90 not just some of the second half. When I see a 90 minute performance, then we can say things have improved. Some ways off, but with two plus weeks to work on the traing ground, next 2 or 3 games are crucial to our chances of survival.
 
Dougie said:
4 points from safety having been battered by Bournemouth and Burnley
7 points from safety after much more respectable displays v Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City

Lies, damned lies...
Click to expand...
In 2 of those games he did what any semi competent manager would’ve done, he’s parked the bus and just looked for us not to get hammered.
 
Mario1889 said:
In 2 of those games he did what any semi competent manager would’ve done, he’s parked the bus and just looked for us not to get hammered.
Click to expand...
In hindsight would that have been a better tactic at 3-0 down or whatever v Newcastle instead of chasing it? No-one thought it'd be 8 but in hindsight that result royally shafted any belief and confidence the players had left after Spurs.
 
We've looked better overall during these last 6 games.
You have to acknowledge that we could easily have been looking at 7 points or even 9 points instead of the 4 we picked up.
Also have to acknowledge that within these last 6 games we have played Liverpool, Chelsea away, Villa away and City away.

Overall under Hecky we had 5 points from 14 games which is 0.35 points per game. (Over a season this is 13 points)
So far under Wilder we have 4 points from 6 games which is 0.66 points per game. (Over a season 25 points which is still of course relegation)
Had we hung on to 3pts vs Luton that would be 7 points from 6 games and 1.16 per game. (Over a season 44 points)

However for us to have any semi realistic chance of staying up we need to be getting at least around the 1.5 points per game mark.
 
Mario1889 said:
As you’ve pointed out, when Wilder came in we were 4 points from safety, we are now 7 points from safety.

Let’s be honest, he isn’t pulling up any trees.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't have made any difference if we had brought pep in, it's all down to recruitment which we all know was fck abysmal. This all lies with the owner! Not giving any body any chance with shite whats been bought in. He doesn't watch us it's just us the fans what have to see the painfull displayes every match. Me personally didn't want Chris back but he's here now so we just have to hope he can finish the season with a bit of respect. UTB 👍
 
Based on what I’m seeing rather than looking into it too analytically I feel we’ve improved. We seemingly have more structure & feels there’s more organisation all around.

Results will speak for themselves & I’d say 99% of the fan base would be happy with him if we’d beaten Luton. That’ll be the game he’s most disappointed with. The 3 other defeats for me were expected, maybe we could have put up more of a fight against Chelsea.

Ultimately this isn’t Wilders team. He hasn’t signed a player for this team in 2 years. People will argue it is Wilders team because he signed the majority of them, but it’s not. He’s had 0 influence for 2 years and that’s a long time.

I’ll judge him properly this time next year after 5 months in the championship & a summer of recruitment.
 
Mario1889 said:
As you’ve pointed out, when Wilder came in we were 4 points from safety, we are now 7 points from safety.

Let’s be honest, he isn’t pulling up any trees.
Click to expand...

Whereas Hecky was tearing down the Amazon rainforest like there's no tomorrow.
 
Doing as well as can be expected, performances and discipline certainly look to have improved as well as it now looks like we have a plan on the field. Let down at the moment by individual player errors will he ring the changes or carry on with the same owd like he did with Lunnycunt? If he makes the necessary changes then at least we can look forward to the next season with some optimism.
 
We've looked like we at least have a game plan and are attempting to execute it, like we very nearly did at Villa.

It's simply a case of damage limitations and avoiding embarrassment because it'd be a miracle if this rabble we've assembled stays up.

The players just don't have the mentality to see things through to the final whistle, regardless of who the manager is. If they did then we'd be a good 7 or 8 points better off and look like we're in with a shout. As it is, we threw points away against Forest, Spurs, Villa and Luton purely due to our own incompetence and avoidable errors.
 
Curates egg. Stopped the bleeding - only Madkins' last stand has ever made me feel as utterly without any clue as to how things will ever get better - but will probably have thought there was enough in the squad to have a reasonable stab at staying up only to see the loss of 5 points prove otherwise. City was desperate, but he/we can do nothing about mismatches of the magnitude.

As a direct result of the above, suspect the JTW may look a bit different to the original plan, what's needed now is a calm and rational look at everything with a view to next season. Would assume this will have formed a big part of negotiations with HRH during the re-appointment process. If he can breathe new life and belief into those he wishes to keep and we can get into the early/mid 20 point area, I think that is as reasonable a gauge of success/failure as there is.

Next season is when the hard work starts and , as ever, the ownership issue informs every decision. I have no clue what we will look like in 24/25, except the stripes will be too thick/thin/dark and the crest will be wrong colour/place.....
 

Alex Cheeseright said:
He says the right things, well mostly, but hard to judge when three teams we played are top 3. Luton game was bad. Should have played better for the 90 not just some of the second half. When I see a 90 minute performance, then we can say things have improved. Some ways off, but with two plus weeks to work on the traing ground, next 2 or 3 games are crucial to our chances of survival.
Click to expand...
The Luton game was very telling.

Turning around 1-0 to lead 2-1 to then lose 3-2 with us scoring 2 own goals was utter madness.

After that match I just thought sod it. Things never change in this embarrassing season.
Can’t wait to be back where we belong.
 
Let's be frank, if the stats aren't positive, or at best, inconclusive, then that's to be expected.

Myself, and many others on here were stating one thing from the outset, a change of manager alone wasn't the solution, and wouldn't drastically change our fortunes.

We haven't been competitive, because our recruitment has been grossly underfunded and our summer was an absolute shambles, from top to bottom. Star players leaving, an embarrassing lack of depth and quality by the start of the season, huge numbers of squad members due out of contract, and an accountant as the club's main source of communication, via twitter. At a premier league club. What the actual chuff.

All of that lies with the owner. End of. We aren't good enough and it's because of his (lack of) leadership. He's naive and inexperienced at best, incompetent and negligent at worst.
 
BobblesBlade said:
The Luton game was very telling.

Turning around 1-0 to lead 2-1 to then lose 3-2 with us scoring 2 own goals was utter madness.

After that match I just thought sod it. Things never change in this embarrassing season.
Can’t wait to be back where we belong.
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Agree with you apart from your last sentence, we do belong in the top division, the club & definitely the fans + the ground, what doesn't belong is this owner and board out of there depth and even worse they don't give a shit which hurts even more!!
 
BladeByChoice said:
Good morning and a happy new year Blades.

I’ve been thinking about the effect Chris has had on the club since his return and reading quite a few Wilder threads with reasonable arguments from all sides.

From a sporting point of view many are saying Wilder will give us a tiny change of staying up and if/when we do go down it will be fighting, with self-respect and the desire to destroy the Championship next season.

One thing I think most of us can agree on is that the Prince is a shrewd business man and only sees the club as a business asset. As of now, we are for sale, so from a business point of view appointing Wilder must increase the ROI.

From a success aspect, its only numbers that matter, and so far, 6 games in we are worse off than we were with Hekky.

After Hekky’s last game: bottom of the league 4 points from 17th.

Now: bottom of the league 7 points from 17th and six less games to play.

So looking at the numbers, here are the stats for Chris for his entire managerial career from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Wilder

View attachment 177020

And here are the stats since his return to the Blades 6 games ago.

View attachment 177021

I’m a great believer in the phrase ‘Lies, damned lies, and statistics’ so I’ll update the chart monthly and we can all interpret the numbers that best supports our personal agenda and argue to our hearts content.

UTB.
Click to expand...
Well if he carries on at that rate, we'll finish on 21 points. I'd take that all day long.
 
2 things I have to pull you up for:
 
No better or no worse than hecky imo but way more negative, the way we set up against man city was depressing.... its a blessing that haaland was injured.

We actually gave a better city team a good game under hecky and could have got something
 
I think survival was just wishful thinking but realistically all we wanted was to stop the pasting and be more competitive, and to pick up some points here and there to ultimately beat Derbys points. This is what Wilder is doing and going to do so it’s a success so far from me.
 
BladeByChoice said:
One thing I think most of us can agree on is that the Prince is a shrewd business man and only sees the club as a business asset.
Click to expand...
I disagree, that was his position when he came in and he stated it since then however I think the Blades have got into his blood. He knows he has to sell both for himself and the club but if he could afford to stay on I'm sure he stay a lot longer.
BladeByChoice said:
From a success aspect, its only numbers that matter, and so far, 6 games in we are worse off than we were with Hekky.
Click to expand...
At the end of his reign Hecky had lost it we were getting battered by relegation rivals not just people looking to get into Europe. We were massively unlucky in the Luton game to not get anything and we are once again the disciplined unit we built success on. I didn't want Wilder back but it is too early to judge his performance as a manager.

Sorry about splitting the post I have a cold and 'pressed the wrong button'.
 
The only game I can honesty say "oh ffs" was Luton and even that was helped by two of the most bizarre og's you'll see.
Losing 2-0 to Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City and almost beating Villa (who had won 15 on the trott at home) to me shows improvement.
Lets see what we are after he has brought in some new faces.
 
Impossible task - but so far I'd say done a pretty good job.

We now look...

More like a team
Seem to have a plan
Have more desire
Heads not dropping after conceding
All players seem to have improved
Work rate is better

2-0 at City was fine.
 
8lade said:
I disagree, that was his position when he came in and he stated it since then however I think the Blades have got into his blood. He knows he has to sell both for himself and the club but if he could afford to stay on I'm sure he stay a lot longer.

At the end of his reign Hecky had lost it we were getting battered by relegation rivals not just people looking to get into Europe. We were massively unlucky in the Luton game to not get anything and we are once again the disciplined unit we built success on. I didn't want Wilder back but it is too early to judge his performance as a manager.

Sorry about splitting the post I have a cold and 'pressed the wrong button'.
Click to expand...

Point 1.

Yes I tend to agree to some extent, if it was just about the money, the Prince would have found some way to leverage the tiny piece of land on Shoreham Street from ‘Biggest Blade’ and sold off the whole plot for tens of millions to a developer, leaving us with a mortgaged identikit stadium in Lightwood on land we don’t own. So he has shown some respect to our clubs history and heritage, but on the other hand, he has never spent a penny more than he has had to and usually gone for the cheaper option.

Point 2.

Strictly by the numbers not taking into account who we have to play and who we have lost to, I would rather be 4 points from safety with 24 to play than 7 points from safety with 18 to play.
 
6/10 I’d say.

I wasn’t particularly pleased with him coming back (would have preferred a fresh approach) so that might cloud my opinion.

Definitely better game plans, more aggression, and organised. But I don’t think we were much different to that in the first 6 weeks of the season, up until Newcastle. The manager just lost the plot/his bottle and the players became bereft of confidence.

Wilder has definitely improved the performance’s from the end of heckys tenure, but it’s early to know how hes doing as I think anyone could have come in and improved the shitshows of the final weeks.

Personally I’ll judge him in jan. We are down barring the impossible and if he makes signing that set us up to get promoted, while continuing to be ‘in’ every game I can take that and he’ll have changed my mind. Conversely, sign a load of expensive loans and risk the summer rebuild needed id be pretty pissed off.
 
Wilder's 6 games:

Liverpool (L 0-2): a promising start which on another day could have see us snatch a point (penalty not given for the push on McAtee; second Liverpool goal incorrectly awarded)

Brentford (W 1-0): building on the Liverpool result to gain our only clean sheet so far this season. Deserved win which could and arguably should have been more comfortable.

Chelsea (L 0-2): decent first half setting the pattern for away games against the top 8 with a deep, compact formation. Failure to react, both tactically and on an individual player level, to Pochettino's tactical switch meant that Cole Palmer was freed to score and set up Chelsea's two goals. Note: Foderingham error on their second.

Villa (D 1-1): almost the perfect away performance against superior opposition only to throw it away in the 98th minute. Note: arguably another Foderingham error.

Luton (L 2-3): this one should and will sting. Worse of two poor sides in the first half before tactical changes at half time and a much improved performance saw us take the lead, only to throw it away with two own goals in the space of 4 minutes. Note: Foderingham error for the first, Robinson error for the second and Ahmedhodzic at fault for the third.

Man City (L 0-2): exactly as you'd expect, a damage limitation exercise with a weakened squad.

On balance: two good performances (Brentford and Villa), one encouraging (Liverpool), one as expected (City) and two poor (Chelsea, Luton). It's nice to see that the tactical setup seems to be with the players and the opposition in mind rather than blindly following the 5-3-2 template irrespective but the Luton game in particular was disappointing, not least because they are the only side in the division on our level. Saturday will be interesting: I don't think anyone carrying a knock will play but aside from that it should be a strong lineup given that our next Premier League game isn't until the 20th.
 

mattbianco1 said:
Should've brought him back before the Bournemouth and Burnley games
Click to expand...

In retrospect yes...but it's always easy to say this after the event.

At the time.....this forum had a vote and the vast majority (was it about 90%) wanted Hecky to be given more time.
I remember at the time thinking our fans deserve failure....if they couldn't see with our own eyes that this was one of the least competive teams we've ever seen and it was nothing to do with quality, it was related to tactics, coaching and team effort.

Any owner with common sense listens to and monitors the mood of the fans.....so The Prince was never going to sack Hecky until the crowd turned and I think that's fair.

Still think it was the club (probably Bettis on behalf of the club) released some info the media about Wilder waiting in the wings to replace Hecky if he continued to struggle. It was done to test the waters regards the mood amongst the fans.
Almost everyone said Hecky MUST be given the Bournmouth and Burnley matches.

There were quite a few that said we owed it to Hecky to give him until Christmas

and incredibly there were quite a few Blades (but these were in the big minority) saying Hecky should be kept in place even if
we're relegated with a record low and he should be trusted to bring us back next season.

The logic was he managed to achieve promotion last season....so we should give him another chance to do it.
 
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