Player Suggestion Holding midfielder

[Bergen Blade]

Michael Doyle and Jason Holt have left and one of the main tasks this summer is to add some height and strength to our central midfield, primarily in the holding role.

Some possible options:

Rodolph Austin - Athletic and tough tackling Leeds midfielder available on a free transfer.

Sam Morsy - Not the biggest, but very strong, perfect age and looks to have great potential.

Anthony Grant - Crewe's holding playmaker. Impressed me every time I've seen him. If he's going to get a move to a bigger club it must be this summer.

Yaser Kasim - Strong player with good composure. Impressive season for Swindon.

John Eustace - Not overly keen on a 35 year old who's been struggling with his knee. Derby may offer him a new contract, which shows he's still got decent ability though. Clough has signed him before.

Michael Bostwick - I'll include him here because he's been mentioned by others. 6'4 and would add some much needed height. Scored 7 goals last season for Peterborough. Is he good enough on the ball though? Just signed a new contract.



Current options:

Paul Coutts - only looks mobile enough for the holding role and that's even assuming he'll improve considerably with a good pre season.

Chris Basham - we thought he was signed for this role, but he's played box to box nearly every time he's been in midfield. Probably lacks the distribution skills that Clough wants in this role.

Louis Reed - Has got great potential as a Scholes/Pirlo type holding playmaker and started there last season. Will have to get stronger and improve defensively though.

James Wallace - Will he be fit?




Any more suggestions?

Championship released players: https://footballfragmento.wordpress.com/2015/05/07/championship-released-players-summer-2015/

League One released players: https://footballfragmento.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/league-one-released-players-summer-2015/

 

[sitwell]

Me and you both have mentioned Grant before this season ,I really rate him ,would be the first player on my shopping list.

 

[Latters]

Not a holding midfielder, but is Andy Lonergan who's just been released by Bolton that goalkeeper that played against us for Preston in the play offs? If so, he was a good 'keeper and might be decent competition for Howard in the short term until Willis possibly develops into a first teamer.

 

[SotonBlade]

Kasim really impressed me in the playoff games.

 

[Lowen]

Jimmy Ryan will be on Clough's radar aswell.

 

[sitwell]

Matt Mills and Roger Johnson would be nice.

 

[S40BLADE]

Bostwick is a very good suggestion... He's also got the beard game on point!!!

 

[Reedy1889]

I was trying to think of players capable of playing this role who'd be realistic targets and you've named two of them one's I thought of, Austin & Eustace. The only other player I can think of who's maybe worth a look at was Orient's Romain Vincelot

 

[Rodley]

Michael Doyle and Jason Holt have left and one of the main tasks this summer is to add some height and strength to our central midfield, primarily in the holding role.

Some possible options:

Rodolph Austin - Athletic and tough tackling Leeds midfielder available on a free transfer.

Sam Morsy - Not the biggest, but very strong, perfect age and looks to have great potential.

Anthony Grant - Crewe's holding playmaker. Impressed me every time I've seen him. If he's going to get a move to a bigger club it must be this summer.

Yaser Kasim - Strong player with good composure. Impressive season for Swindon.

John Eustace - Not overly keen on a 35 year old who's been struggling with his knee. Derby may offer him a new contract, which shows he's still got decent ability though. Clough has signed him before.

Michael Bostwick - I'll include him here because he's been mentioned by others. 6'4 and would add some much needed height. Scored 7 goals last season for Peterborough. Is he good enough on the ball though? Just signed a new contract.



Current options:

Paul Coutts - only looks mobile enough for the holding role and that's even assuming he'll improve considerably with a good pre season.

Chris Basham - we thought he was signed for this role, but he's played box to box nearly every time he's been in midfield. Probably lacks the distribution skills that Clough wants in this role.

Louis Reed - Has got great potential as a Scholes/Pirlo type holding playmaker and started there last season. Will have to get stronger and improve defensively though.

James Wallace - Will he be fit?




Any more suggestions?

Championship released players: https://footballfragmento.wordpress.com/2015/05/07/championship-released-players-summer-2015/

League One released players: https://footballfragmento.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/league-one-released-players-summer-2015/

Would you partner one of those with Basham in a 4-4-2? I think Bash, Scoogs and one of those would be a good trio but I'm loathed to see one up top.

The squad will be huge if we make the 3-4 signings we need!

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Grant and Austin should certainly be interesting Clough. Possibly Morsy but I haven't seen enough of him to say.

 

[Pinchy]

I wouldn't rule out a midfielder but it's clear the priority is centre-backs (plural) and another striker [COG main target]. If (and it's a big one, I know) Wallace and Coutts are fully fit then they, together with Bash and Scoogs [Reed needs to go on loan and learn the game] are as good as you'll get in this league.

If we do go for a midfielder, let him do the full job, not use a meaningless modern appellation as an excuse to do half a job. We allowed Montgomery to get away with that for ten years. I thought we were supposed to be learning from our mistakes. A team needs two good quality centre midfielders. It's the beating heart of football. Your playmaker has to do his bit in pressing the ball; your artisan has to be able to play a bit as well. It's a good job no-one told Souness, Gemmill, Giles, Brady, Colin Bell, Alan Ball, Howard Kendall, Colin Harvey, Vieira, Toure and countless other proper footballers about "holding midfielders".

 

[Revolution]

I wouldn't rule out a midfielder but it's clear the priority is centre-backs (plural) and another striker [COG main target]. If (and it's a big one, I know) Wallace and Coutts are fully fit then they, together with Bash and Scoogs [Reed needs to go on loan and learn the game] are as good as you'll get in this league.

If we do go for a midfielder, let him do the full job, not use a meaningless modern appellation as an excuse to do half a job. We allowed Montgomery to get away with that for ten years. I thought we were supposed to be learning from our mistakes. A team needs two good quality centre midfielders. It's the beating heart of football. Your playmaker has to do his bit in pressing the ball; your artisan has to be able to play a bit as well. It's a good job no-one told Souness, Gemmill, Giles, Brady, Colin Bell, Alan Ball, Howard Kendall, Colin Harvey, Vieira, Toure and countless other proper footballers about "holding midfielders".

Agree 100%. I'm sick of hearing that certain midfielders aren't there to score or create anything. We always seem to have an abundance of these. Let's get people in who, shock horror, can tackle and shoot. Then perhaps we can ditch the 3 man non creating central midfield and there will be more space for more attacking players.

 

[Pinchy]

Agree 100%. I'm sick of hearing that certain midfielders aren't there to score or create anything. We always seem to have an abundance of these. Let's get people in who, shock horror, can tackle and shoot. Then perhaps we can ditch the 3 man non creating central midfield and there will be more space for more attacking players.

We are agreeing far too much of late! ️

 

[Pedro Verde]

Austin has offers from the Championship think that might rule him out

 

[Latters]

We are agreeing far too much of late! ️

It's amazing what can happen when you remove the name calling from a post. I even "liked" it. I don't think I've "liked" one of your posts since the halcyon days of Danny Wilson.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Agree 100%. I'm sick of hearing that certain midfielders aren't there to score or create anything. We always seem to have an abundance of these. Let's get people in who, shock horror, can tackle and shoot. Then perhaps we can ditch the 3 man non creating central midfield and there will be more space for more attacking players.

I wouldn't rule out a midfielder but it's clear the priority is centre-backs (plural) and another striker [COG main target]. If (and it's a big one, I know) Wallace and Coutts are fully fit then they, together with Bash and Scoogs [Reed needs to go on loan and learn the game] are as good as you'll get in this league.

If we do go for a midfielder, let him do the full job, not use a meaningless modern appellation as an excuse to do half a job. We allowed Montgomery to get away with that for ten years. I thought we were supposed to be learning from our mistakes. A team needs two good quality centre midfielders. It's the beating heart of football. Your playmaker has to do his bit in pressing the ball; your artisan has to be able to play a bit as well. It's a good job no-one told Souness, Gemmill, Giles, Brady, Colin Bell, Alan Ball, Howard Kendall, Colin Harvey, Vieira, Toure and countless other proper footballers about "holding midfielders".

The title didn't say "Technically poor midfielder" or similar though.

Why do you seem to assume a holding midfielder must be technically poor or not offer anything in an attacking sense? Why say that holding midfielders only do half a job when they do a role in a team that allows other players to attack more, thus giving them good balance overall?

Sergio Busquets scoring record for Barcelona is worse than Nick Montgomery's for us. It still seems to work ok for them. Andrea Pirlo is amazing to watch in a holding role, even though he doesn't bomb up and down the pitch constantly. When Reed started there last season it was also because of good distribution skills from deep, not because he wins more tackles than Doyle. You get different things from different holding midfielder types, but the important thing remains that the team need good balance from an attacking and defending perspective.

 

[Trigger Blade]

If we do go for a midfielder, let him do the full job, not use a meaningless modern appellation as an excuse to do half a job.

Why not go for a meaningless old appellation, inside forward

 

[Blade56]

Now that's what you call a 'Holding' midfielder

 

[Revolution]

The title didn't say "Technically poor midfielder" or similar though.

Why do you seem to assume a holding midfielder must be technically poor or not offer anything in an attacking sense? Why say that holding midfielders only do half a job when they do a role in a team that allows other players to attack more, thus giving them good balance overall?

Sergio Busquets scoring record for Barcelona is worse than Nick Montgomery's for us. It still seems to work ok for them. Andrea Pirlo is amazing to watch in a holding role, even though he doesn't bomb up and down the pitch constantly. When Reed started there last season it was also because of good distribution skills from deep, not because he wins more tackles than Doyle. You get different things from different holding midfielder types, but the important thing remains that the team need good balance from an attacking and defending perspective.

I assume that because I can't remember when we last had a holding midfielder who scored more than a couple of goals a season or made a couple of assists as season. As Pinchy says, all those years of Monty makes people think it's all right to carry such players. It isn't.

And spare me with Barcelona. the last time I checked they had the best player in the world up front supported by 2 other great strikers. We don't. Same with Pirlo. You're comparing apples with oranges.

Reed does offer something different, I agree. But again, it isn't goals or assists, at the moment. Hopefully he will improve on that.

My point is that someone has to be creative, and someone has to score. We saw last season the consequences of putting 3 in midfield who never score or assist with one man up front - you don't get enough goals. We still have some of those players. We need someone who has some end product in terms of goals. A Doyle clone or Reed clone or Basham clone does not give us the balance you rightly say we need.

Do any of the players you've named score 5 or 6 times a season? If so, I'd be interested. If not, forget it.

 

[blades78]

A little bit controversial but I'd like us to go for Richard Wood. I know he's ex w*dnesd*y, but always impressed me. Only 29, brilliant in the air and generally a solid centre back. It was no surprise that Crawley picked up when he went on loan there and then dropped off when he left. I cant see Rotherham wanting much for him.

 

[Caseh]

I wouldn't rule out a midfielder but it's clear the priority is centre-backs (plural) and another striker [COG main target]. If (and it's a big one, I know) Wallace and Coutts are fully fit then they, together with Bash and Scoogs [Reed needs to go on loan and learn the game] are as good as you'll get in this league.

If we do go for a midfielder, let him do the full job, not use a meaningless modern appellation as an excuse to do half a job. We allowed Montgomery to get away with that for ten years. I thought we were supposed to be learning from our mistakes. A team needs two good quality centre midfielders. It's the beating heart of football. Your playmaker has to do his bit in pressing the ball; your artisan has to be able to play a bit as well. It's a good job no-one told Souness, Gemmill, Giles, Brady, Colin Bell, Alan Ball, Howard Kendall, Colin Harvey, Vieira, Toure and countless other proper footballers about "holding midfielders".

You're right. Claude Makalele was crap. He couldn't pass the ball around like a playmaker so obviously he was no use.

Only one of the best midfielders of his generstion, though.

 

[Revolution]

You're right. Claude Makalele was crap. He couldn't pass the ball around like a playmaker so obviously he was no use.

Only one of the best midfielders of his generstion, though.

What does Makelele have to do with our midfield needs in league one?

And if Makelele had Reed and Scougall and Coutts next to him, I doubt his teams would have done so well.

 

[Caseh]

What does Makelele have to do with our midfield needs in league one?

And if Makelele had Reed and Scougall and Coutts next to him, I doubt his teams would have done so well.

You had your rant about midfielders only doing half a job and that they should be doing everything, so I pointed out one of those "half a job" midfielders. That would have walked into every team on the planet. The issue with those types of player, its the manager that needs to build the team based on having such a player. Not all midfielders have to be an attacking threat, that's how you end up unbalanced.

 

[Pinchy]

Why not go for a meaningless old appellation, inside forward

Now you're talking! Colin Addison, Willie Carlin. Two of my all-time favourites. I'd bringemback in an instant

Don't forget the half-backs though!

 

[Pinchy]

You had your rant about midfielders only doing half a job and that they should be doing everything, so I pointed out one of those "half a job" midfielders. That would have walked into every team on the planet. The issue with those types of player, its the manager that needs to build the team based on having such a player. Not all midfielders have to be an attacking threat, that's how you end up unbalanced.

They have to play their part, though. Not stand on the half-way line 'holding'. Half a job means half a passenger. It's not acceptable. The very best players aren't interested in this technical whiteboard crap. They do what's natural and instinctive and it works. Lesser players can emulate, though not equal, their example.

Imagine telling Franz Beckenbauer or Michel Platini - "You're holding today mate..."

 

[Bergen Blade]

I assume that because I can't remember when we last had a holding midfielder who scored more than a couple of goals a season or made a couple of assists as season. As Pinchy says, all those years of Monty makes people think it's all right to carry such players. It isn't.

And spare me with Barcelona. the last time I checked they had the best player in the world up front supported by 2 other great strikers. We don't. Same with Pirlo. You're comparing apples with oranges.

Reed does offer something different, I agree. But again, it isn't goals or assists, at the moment. Hopefully he will improve on that.

My point is that someone has to be creative, and someone has to score. We saw last season the consequences of putting 3 in midfield who never score or assist with one man up front - you don't get enough goals. We still have some of those players. We need someone who has some end product in terms of goals. A Doyle clone or Reed clone or Basham clone does not give us the balance you rightly say we need.

Do any of the players you've named score 5 or 6 times a season? If so, I'd be interested. If not, forget it.

Barcelona most often play 4-3-3 with Messi one of the front three.

I was far from Montgomery's biggest fan, but he was a regular in a team that when promoted in 2005/06 had good balance offensively and defensively. But it's time to leave Monty as the centre of all midfield debates. There are no end of possible ways to achieve such a balance, but that should remain the aim, not a 6 goal criterion for your holding midfielder, which I think would exclude both Busquets and Pirlo.

I don't see anything wrong with using world class player types to compare with player types at our level, and lower. That's comparing a good apple with a not so good apple. Bear in mind that the not so good apples are also playing against not so good oranges. A quick winger at our level obviously won't be as good as the ones at world class level, but like the latter, he should be able to get past his (third division) full back, get crosses in, score a few goals, etc. So it's all about getting the right blend of decent fruit, even if they're not world class. If we can do that I'm optimistic that Basham and Scougall will chip in with a few, as should our new centre backs and forwards and full backs, maybe even the new holding midfielder.

 

[Bergen Blade]

They have to play their part, though. Not stand on the half-way line 'holding'. Half a job means half a passenger. It's not acceptable. The very best players aren't interested in this technical whiteboard crap. They do what's natural and instinctive and it works. Lesser players can emulate, though not equal, their example.

Imagine telling Franz Beckenbauer or Michel Platini - "You're holding today mate..."

Why tell Platini that, he was part of "le Carré Magique", the Magic Square, where Luis Fernandez played a holding, defensive role. I presume you'd instruct Platini to not do 'half a job' and get back chasing those nippy opposition midfielders.

 

[Revolution]

Barcelona most often play 4-3-3 with Messi one of the front three.

I was far from Montgomery's biggest fan, but he was a regular in a team that when promoted in 2005/06 had good balance offensively and defensively. But it's time to leave Monty as the centre of all midfield debates. There are no end of possible ways to achieve such a balance, but that should remain the aim, not a 6 goal criterion for your holding midfielder, which I think would exclude both Busquets and Pirlo.

I don't see anything wrong with using world class player types to compare with player types at our level, and lower. That's comparing a good apple with a not so good apple. Bear in mind that the not so good apples are also playing against not so good oranges. A quick winger at our level obviously won't be as good as the ones at world class level, but like the latter, he should be able to get past his (third division) full back, get crosses in, score a few goals, etc. So it's all about getting the right blend of decent fruit, even if they're not world class. If we can do that I'm optimistic that Basham and Scougall will chip in with a few, as should our new centre backs and forwards and full backs, maybe even the new holding midfielder.

I get it now. You think we need a holding midfielder, and that they don't need to score goals, to"balance" the attacking contribution you are optimistic the likes of Basham and Scougall will provide.

I'm not so optimistic. I prefer to focus on the evidence of my own eyes, which is that both players have very poor scoring records as they can't finish and don't get in good positions, and that Scougall has no ball control and spent most of last season getting knocked off the ball. We need balance, yes, In the sense that we need someone to score the goals these 2 and Coutts won't. Basham is your holding midfielder for me.

And chipping in with a few here are there isn't enough. We need 5 or 6 players at or close to double figures, at least.

 

[Revolution]

Why tell Platini that, he was part of "le Carré Magique", the Magic Square, where Luis Fernandez played a holding, defensive role. I presume you'd instruct Platini to not do 'half a job' and get back chasing those nippy opposition midfielders.

Again, apples and oranges. If Scougall got 15 goals a season from midfield, as platini did, of course you wouldn't tell him to defend. But he doesn't. He scored once. Basham didn't score in the league. We need better.

 

[forever_blade]

Michael Doyle and Jason Holt have left and one of the main tasks this summer is to add some height and strength to our central midfield, primarily in the holding role.

Some possible options:

Rodolph Austin - Athletic and tough tackling Leeds midfielder available on a free transfer.

Sam Morsy - Not the biggest, but very strong, perfect age and looks to have great potential.

Anthony Grant - Crewe's holding playmaker. Impressed me every time I've seen him. If he's going to get a move to a bigger club it must be this summer.

Yaser Kasim - Strong player with good composure. Impressive season for Swindon.

John Eustace - Not overly keen on a 35 year old who's been struggling with his knee. Derby may offer him a new contract, which shows he's still got decent ability though. Clough has signed him before.

Michael Bostwick - I'll include him here because he's been mentioned by others. 6'4 and would add some much needed height. Scored 7 goals last season for Peterborough. Is he good enough on the ball though? Just signed a new contract.



Current options:

Paul Coutts - only looks mobile enough for the holding role and that's even assuming he'll improve considerably with a good pre season.

Chris Basham - we thought he was signed for this role, but he's played box to box nearly every time he's been in midfield. Probably lacks the distribution skills that Clough wants in this role.

Louis Reed - Has got great potential as a Scholes/Pirlo type holding playmaker and started there last season. Will have to get stronger and improve defensively though.

James Wallace - Will he be fit?




Any more suggestions?

Championship released players: https://footballfragmento.wordpress.com/2015/05/07/championship-released-players-summer-2015/

League One released players: https://footballfragmento.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/league-one-released-players-summer-2015/

Bostwick's a cracking shout, watched him closely at The Lane & he would add a much needed presence in midfield, would love Sam Morsy aswell.

Just get Kyle McFadzean & Matt Mills* in at centre half & we're cooking on gas!

*Mills will no doubt have offers from Championship clubs so can't see him dropping down but there'd be no harm in us trying to persuade him here