#HerGameToo

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Yep. And one less 'paki'/'yid'/'nigger'/'[insert countless hideous comments]' utterance from the great unwashed which we ALL hear. Let's also include 'you fat bastard', 'bald cunt' and 'get your tits out for the lads' which is the lingua franca of a thankfully diminishing lesser-politically aligned cohort who happen to support the same team as we do. Should we tolerate this? No. Should groundstaff do anything about it? You be the judge of that. Moreover can anyone be offended by any of the above? Yes.

Will having a #HerGame event change any of that?

Absolutely not. Just like taking the knee didn't sweep racism in football away too.

pommpey

When was the last time you posted on this forum that you are broadly against chants such as - get your tits out?

(I am trying to suggest that #HerGameToo has already had a positive impact. United endorsed the initiative, I posted on this forum, you have declared your views, others have read them)

What harm do you think a campaign like #HerGameToo does to female fans?

 

[Inter_blade83]

Another point is the effect of excessive alcohol.
Is there a correlation between alcohol, verbal aggression and atmosphere.

The Qatar World Cup received bad press when they announced the alcohol ban.
However the feedback from most journalists and YouTubers was that it was the friendliest/safest, most family orientated tournament ever.
Many commented that the lack of drunk fans was a massive contributory factor regards it's success.

Britain does seem to have this culture of "one must be really drunk to enjoy anything".

Can confirm, was a pleasant experience. Plenty of women hailed it too, as they felt safe wherever they were in Qatar too.

 

[blade67]

THE SHEFFIELD UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED gender pay gap data for 2021-22 reporting year - GOV.UK

gender-pay-gap.service.gov.uk

In this organisation, women earn 75p for every £1 that men earn when comparing median hourly pay. Their median hourly pay is 25% lower than men’s.

I'm surprised it's that close to be honest given that 1st team football players and staff are all men, and they must make up the majority of the top earners

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Some really interesting points here, some are easy to agree with, others not so easy.

When I was playing sport, my two main games were cricket in the summer and badminton in the winter - in all the (too many) years that I played cricket, I can’t remember playing with or against a lady player. Different story with badminton, I played local leagues and Yorkshire League with players of county and international standard, and I can honestly say that if I was asked to name the best I ever played with, it would be a lady.

Fishing has been my biggest hobby virtually all my life, coarse/match/fly/and salmon fishing in that order, and after marriage I always had a companion and this grew into Our Gert getting more and more involved. Never a problem from any man about that, in fact, when I fished the Spey at Tulchan Lodge, she was offered full use of the hut (food, drinks etc) even though she wasn’t fishing that day.

She now has a rod in our syndicate week on the Upper Tweed every October, and I’d like to tell you that it’s a sobering feeling driving back home when she’s caught the most salmon, but I can’t do that because it’s a great feeling really…

Evidence?….

 

[pommpey]

When was the last time you posted on this forum that you are broadly against chants such as - get your tits out?

I haven't. And I won't. Simply because it would make not one jot of difference. That doesn't mean to say that a public, collective chant like that against an uncomfortable recipient isn't wrong. It is. GYTOFTL is the stuff of said dinosaurs. It's 'bantz' of the worst kind. But then again, where exactly do we draw the line here? I've heard some tasteless chants that have had me laughing my arse off guiltily. I've heard ones which are plainly wrong in whatever context. Are you going to stop it with hashtags and bibs? Am I going to stop it by objecting?

Nope

pommpey

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

Whilst I don't know what it may achieve in the long run, what I do know is that my 11-year-old daughter and my 11-year-old niece are so excited to see their favourite team embracing the fact that football is their game too. They've been playing for their girls team for 4/5 years now, they were inspired by the Lionesses last summer, they've been enthralled by SUFC since the they started watching in the Adkins season (maybe enthralled since their second season actually) and they love to see SUFC Women. It makes me feel more confident as their father/uncle that they may not have to worry about the (minority of) male fans who want to make crude/insensitive comments to them in the future as they grow up. It makes me feel more confident that SUFC will tackle the issues that could switch them off in the future, e.g. the toilet quantity and quality, a sense of belonging. If all it does is make 300 girls and their parents happier about their SUFC experience, it's worth doing. Yes, it's everybody's game but there's never been any doubt it's a man's game - we've had that phrase for years. #HerGameToo is a simple way for girls to know that they can play and watch football and nobody can ever stop them. Why would anybody object to that?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I'm still very happy to throw my support behind the Blades Fans who are #HerGameToo ambassadors and to applaud what United are also doing in partnership with the campaign this weekend.

I understand the argument that you won't stop sexism with hashtags. But, I remain completely unconvinced by the argument that you'll make sexism worse by hashtags.

 

[Flumps]

I'm still very happy to throw my support behind the Blades Fans who are #HerGameToo ambassadors and to applaud what United are also doing in partnership with the campaign this weekend.

I understand the argument that you won't stop sexism with hashtags. But, I remain completely unconvinced by the argument that you'll make sexism worse by hashtags.

Could potentially argue it puts it out there for ridicule and brings our the sexist jokes? Of which they won't like. Its a reach but for some reason we have this insane idea you can stop "online hate" and you just can not.

I think a lot of people are just getting tired of every weekend some team seemingly supporting some new cause. I don't want to put words in their mouths but I kind of assume United are pro women's football, not only because, why wouldn't you be? But also they hosted multiple Euro games and regularly post about our own lasses team. I also believe they're anti racist, discrimination yada yada.

I don't think many people will think it's a bad thing, they certainly shouldn't do but it does get tiring. I'm amazed how much the Euros boosted peoples interest in women's football and a few on here have mentioned how since then their kids have gotten excited about it which is incredible to see, I remember being super excited when I was young about going to the match.

 

[jt64]

I'm surprised it's that close to be honest given that 1st team football players and staff are all men, and they must make up the majority of the top earners

It's a median value, so the entire first team squad could take an 80% pay cut and the figure wouldn't change. Which, as it is not comparing like for like salaries at all, is completely fucking meaningless anyway

 

[Linz]

Putting some lasses' pictures on the screen, I'm sure, will be lovely for them but ultimately I don't think it'll make much difference to anything in the long run.

Just like nothing has changed since I pointed out the optics of putting a panel of middle-aged blokes out to placate fans, particularly female ones, at a Q&A about the "Ched scenario"...

 

[JackSUFC]

The “lock” on the Kop bog used to be an outstretched leg and foot if you ever had the misfortune of having to have a “sit down visit”.

Surely no one has ever braved a sit down trip to the Kop bogs?

 

[pommpey]

Yes, it's everybody's game

Agreed. Absolutely

but there's never been any doubt it's a man's game

Hang on. Make your mind up.

Today - football is accessible and performed by women and men. It's everyone's game.

Historically, it hasn't been. But that is as much history as slavery and emancipation

Hastags, bibs and even fucking rainbows will change nothing. While we are on that subject, I don't doubt that there are still a criminally high amount of closeted gay men within senior football. No amount of pinkness and 'raising awareness' will bring them out. What will bring them out are attitudes within the professional game and it's backers and sponsors and attitudes on the terraces.

pommpey

 

[Nesh Blade]

Agreed. Absolutely



Hang on. Make your mind up.

Today - football is accessible and performed by women and men. It's everyone's game.

Historically, it hasn't been. But that is as much history as slavery and emancipation

Hastags, bibs and even fucking rainbows will change nothing. While we are on that subject, I don't doubt that there are still a criminally high amount of closeted gay men within senior football. No amount of pinkness and 'raising awareness' will bring them out. What will bring them out are attitudes within the professional game and it's backers and sponsors and attitudes on the terraces.

pommpey

You’ve got a lot of views on what isn’t going to work, but what do you propose will change attitudes in the professional game? These corporate publicity stunts are kinda only of interest to corporate people, but you’re saying that’s who needs to change?

 

[Bartleby]

Just like taking the knee didn't sweep racism in football away too.

pommpey

Don't think anyone with half a brain cell ever expected that it would, but it is a gesture that does no harm. The anger that it seemed to elicit from some, like on here in shoutbox at the start of every game, surprised me at times, maybe it shouldn't have.

 

[Digs blade]

It’s a game open to all. Long may that continue.

Will the women ever be comparable with men ? Not in my life time

Have I any interest in the women game? Absolutely none

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

Agreed. Absolutely



Hang on. Make your mind up.

Today - football is accessible and performed by women and men. It's everyone's game.

Historically, it hasn't been. But that is as much history as slavery and emancipation

Hastags, bibs and even fucking rainbows will change nothing. While we are on that subject, I don't doubt that there are still a criminally high amount of closeted gay men within senior football. No amount of pinkness and 'raising awareness' will bring them out. What will bring them out are attitudes within the professional game and it's backers and sponsors and attitudes on the terraces.

pommpey

How many times have you heard the phrase "It's a women's game" over the years? I've certainly heard "It's a man's game" uttered regularly. That's what I'm referring to when I say there's no doubt it's a man's game - we've heard it over and over and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that there will be hundreds of girls all over the country who stopped watching, playing or enjoying football because they thought it was a boy thing.

You can think that hashtags, bibs and rainbows won't make a difference but it will make a difference to the people that matter most: the girls. Anything like this will keep reinforcing that message that they can enjoy football too, that the club cares about their matchday experience and it might, and I say might because some people will be knobheads until the day they die, make a couple of young men think slightly differently too. You seem to have a big issue with it when actually it will make little difference to your match experience other than a bit of background noise, a different logo on the advertising hoardings and a few images on the big screen. But I can tell you that it means the world to my little girl that her team, SUFC, and #HerGameToo are linked up to promote that girls have as much right to the game as the boys, that she is just as important as any other SUFC fan. I agree with you that the experience for girls and women is ten times better now than it was 30 years ago but the myth that football is a boys' game is still - often without realising it - promoted; to me, the #HerGameToo campaign is simply promoting that we can still improve the experience for girls and women and reinforcing that message that they should be able to enjoy the game as much as anybody else. It's not a silver bullet to fix everything - but it's a small step that won't hurt anybody and might help to further progress.

 

[Gaini Blade]

I've nothing against women, my mum was one. But watching them play football is bloody boring if we're honest.

My mum was too - what are the odds?!

 

[Gaini Blade]

Disgraceful. The club need to rectify this as soon as possible by no longer hiring women for low paid roles. #Equality

Does that mean that I'm contributing to equality by being a male in one of the low paid jobs? I feel a lot better now.

 

[Ned the Donkey]

I'm still very happy to throw my support behind the Blades Fans who are #HerGameToo ambassadors and to applaud what United are also doing in partnership with the campaign this weekend.

I understand the argument that you won't stop sexism with hashtags. But, I remain completely unconvinced by the argument that you'll make sexism worse by hashtags.

Like hashtag fucking anything it's not that it makes things directly worse, more that it's the pretense of doing something rather than actually doing something. Empty performative bollocks.

If, in this instance, they're going to encourage women and girls to play football then get off fucking Twitter and actually do something. Take your daughter/neice and her mates down the park for a kick about, get them to join in a game, chances are - in my experience - the boys won't bat an eyelid. More formally ref a game, be fixtures secretary for a League, all sorts.

And generally (though it might not apply in this case) fighting discrimination with more discrimination is beyond fucking stupid. Divide and fucking Rule.

 

[Bartleby]

If, in this instance, they're going to encourage women and girls to play football then get off fucking Twitter and actually do something. Take your daughter/neice and her mates down the park for a kick about, get them to join in a game, chances are - in my experience - the boys won't bat an eyelid.

In my experience lots of people are actually doing this.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

2

United have announced a new partnership with Her Game Too. Tackling sexism and championing women in sports.

Blades delighted to partner with #HerGameToo

To celebrate International Women's Day, Sheffield United is delighted to announce a new and exciting partnership with #HerGameToo

www.sufc.co.uk

Could it be sexist to assume that someone using the “Her” pronoun is a woman?

 

[Bartleby]

You seem to have a big issue with it when actually it will make little difference to your match experience other than a bit of background noise, a different logo on the advertising hoardings and a few images on the big screen.

Tbf, I might be wrong but I think, in his way, he was saying he doesn't have an issue with it?

 

[EddieColquhoun]

THE SHEFFIELD UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED gender pay gap data for 2021-22 reporting year - GOV.UK

gender-pay-gap.service.gov.uk

In this organisation, women earn 75p for every £1 that men earn when comparing median hourly pay. Their median hourly pay is 25% lower than men’s.

If the ticket office staff get a pay rise and Iliman and Anel leave it might improve things.

 

[KeithEdsgoalWards]

My mum was too - what are the odds?!

We might be related!

 

[robbiez666]

I've known a lot of women over my life who have given up sport/athletics in their teens due to the reaction of boys.

While some initiatives are better than others, normalising girl/women participating in/watching sport is only a good thing.

Girls playing football should be as normal as boys playing football. Ditto any sport. There are a lot of people trying to make this happen and a vocal minority spending their time trying to malign their efforts.

 

[pommpey]

You’ve got a lot of views on what isn’t going to work, but what do you propose will change attitudes in the professional game? These corporate publicity stunts are kinda only of interest to corporate people, but you’re saying that’s who needs to change?

What? To elevate women in football? It's an evolutionary thing. It will grow of its own accord and has done. Anyone who compares the women's game with the mans and makes a conclusion 'it's shit' is both stupid and bigoted. It's the same game, same rules, but and entirely different environment played at a different tempo and philosophy. If you expect them to play like men, prepare to be disappointed. Suspend your dyed in beliefs and fucking enjoy. But don't try to force the issue. It's taken decades to grow men's football through various stages of it's development from its early development to the highly technical, high-stakes competitiveness that it is today. Hashtags won't level that. Left to its own devices, a decade, maybe two will allow women's football to move in its own direction and own its own characteristics, unique to women. If you want it 'just like the men's game' you're gonna fuck up, because it is currently unattainable and not desired by both sports.

And yes, with regard closeted gay players (less so in the women's game) the pressure on image makers and sponsors weighs heavy on some. Its a shame - a massive shame. It's like everything that should have been learned from the tragedy that was Justin Fashnau wasn't and that liberty that should have happened, and been celebrated accordingly, wasn't. How many openly gay players can you name? Maybe we should hashtag it and wear bibs ...

pommpey

 

[Gaini Blade]

We might be related!

Bro, is it really you?!

 

[coaxingstar71]

How many times have you heard the phrase "It's a women's game" over the years? I've certainly heard "It's a man's game" uttered regularly. That's what I'm referring to when I say there's no doubt it's a man's game - we've heard it over and over and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that there will be hundreds of girls all over the country who stopped watching, playing or enjoying football because they thought it was a boy thing.

You can think that hashtags, bibs and rainbows won't make a difference but it will make a difference to the people that matter most: the girls. Anything like this will keep reinforcing that message that they can enjoy football too, that the club cares about their matchday experience and it might, and I say might because some people will be knobheads until the day they die, make a couple of young men think slightly differently too. You seem to have a big issue with it when actually it will make little difference to your match experience other than a bit of background noise, a different logo on the advertising hoardings and a few images on the big screen. But I can tell you that it means the world to my little girl that her team, SUFC, and #HerGameToo are linked up to promote that girls have as much right to the game as the boys, that she is just as important as any other SUFC fan. I agree with you that the experience for girls and women is ten times better now than it was 30 years ago but the myth that football is a boys' game is still - often without realising it - promoted; to me, the #HerGameToo campaign is simply promoting that we can still improve the experience for girls and women and reinforcing that message that they should be able to enjoy the game as much as anybody else. It's not a silver bullet to fix everything - but it's a small step that won't hurt anybody and might help to further progress.

I'll obviously admit that I don't know you and your little girls from Adam (and Eve I should probably add) but I'm sceptical that the connection between SUFC and #HerGameToo "means the world" to your little girl.
You've already said how they were enthralled after first watching the Blades in the Atkins/early Wilder era and I would think like all of us, including Linz and her Nannan, they soon became hooked on going to games, win or lose, laugh or cry. In this respect there is total equality.
Boys or Girls, a childs interest in any sport should surely be encouraged by their parents and, thankfully, now there's no reason why any little girl who wants to play or watch football cannot do so. I walk the dog round the park at the weekend and it's noticeable that there's as many girls games as boys. I go to Bramall Lane and there many many more ladies going than there ever was, it's great to see and from what I've seen and those I talk to, they all love it.
You know what, crack on, it doesn't affect me there's another 'worthy' hashtag cause, it's harmless fluff, so enjoy, but come on let's not kid ourselves how important it is, when all the things it stands for already exist.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

"Don't positively support something that I already support and is already happening and doesn't need supporting anyway, in that way you've chosen. Support it this other way that I've decided is better"

 

[pommpey]

"Don't positively support something that I already support and is already happening and doesn't need supporting anyway, in that way you've chosen. Support it this other way that I've decided is better"

More like:

"Why are we doing this? What net effect will hastagging a situation already in process? Who is behind this, and when we examine the metrics, is there any real need for it? Who exactly is this aimed at? Is this not inherently discriminatory in an opposite sense against another specific group? What are public attitudes saying regading this? Is there any need? What will be the overall outcome, even marginally?"

These aren't questions aimed at 'doing nothing'. They are questions aimed solely at the rationale behind it to highlight if there isn't some wider political driver behind this and the real intent is just being used as a convenient vehicle to wide on whilst actually championing a larger feminist narrative against a 'patriarchy' standpoint which is as baseless and pointless as it seems (and actually is) when it's exposed to the sunlight.

No one ... but no one supporting this ... has told us in detail what the outcomes of this are meant to achieve. And if you use the the words 'raise awareness' in the answer, you are instantly highlighting yourself as hijacked and brainwashed. Raising awareness is a hollow, empty gesture of the mediocrity of modern opinion formers.

pommpey