GoalWatch - our defending vs Barnsley

[Bergen Blade]

1-0: Kozluk makes a long throw into our box. Geary gets his head to the ball, but only flicks it on. An unmarked Colace makes a clever touch, finding de Silva. He shoots hard into the far side of the goal.

Looking at our marking, Harper marks de Silva, and Quinn marks Colace. They both become ball watching and gets pulled towards the first aerial challenge, leaving «their men» unmarked. Realising the ball falls to Colace they BOTH try to press him, but as he passes it on, it means that de Silva can even make a touch before shooting.

So, personal mistake from Harper and Quinn, and our management is free of blame? No. The reason they get pulled towards the ball is because they see a big space behind the first challenge, and they belive that's where the ball is going to drop. We are still missing a zone man who doesn't have any marking responsibility. If we had such a player strategically positioned behind the first challenge (red circle), ready to clear any bouncing/flicked on ball, the likes of Quinn and Harper could (and would) have focused exclusively on their marking duties.

We have conceded similar goals of late, and it's time to correct it - on the training pitch.

2-1: Kozluk (again!) takes a free kick in his own half and knocks it up to Macken. Davies challenges him, but the ball bounces, Macken races to the byline and crosses for Bogdanovic to score.

I think Blackwell will blame Davies. For me, this is another goal that highlights the weakness of a man marking system. There is no cover behind the first challenge. If our defender loses out, they are through.

The 2nd photo below shows how the rest of the backline would have been positioned in a zonal marking system.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Anyone reckon Geary is not ideal to challenge for the first header?

 

[raul]

PMSL - I opened this thread fully expecting Geary to feature heavily, but second sentence?? Bloody hell Bergs, give the little guy a break

 

[Knackered Blade]

1-0: Kozluk makes a long throw into our box. Geary gets his head to the ball, but only flicks it on. An unmarked Colace makes a clever touch, finding de Silva. He shoots hard into the far side of the goal.

Looking at our marking, Harper marks de Silva, and Quinn marks Colace. They both become ball watching and gets pulled towards the first aerial challenge, leaving «their men» unmarked. Realising the ball falls to Colace they BOTH try to press him, but as he passes it on, it means that de Silva can even make a touch before shooting.

So, personal mistake from Harper and Quinn, and our management is free of blame? No. The reason they get pulled towards the ball is because they see a big space behind the first challenge, and they belive that's where the ball is going to drop. We are still missing a zone man who doesn't have any marking responsibility. If we had such a player strategically positioned behind the first challenge (red circle), ready to clear any bouncing/flicked on ball, the likes of Quinn and Harper could (and would) have focused exclusively on their marking duties.

We have conceded similar goals of late, and it's time to correct it - on the training pitch.

2-1: Kozluk (again!) takes a free kick in his own half and knocks it up to Macken. Davies challenges him, but the ball bounces, Macken races to the byline and crosses for Bogdanovic to score.

I think Blackwell will blame Davies. For me, this is another goal that highlights the weakness of a man marking system. There is no cover behind the first challenge. If our defender loses out, they are through.

The 2nd photo below shows how the rest of the backline would have been positioned in a zonal marking system.

For the first goal, I think Harper is to blame. If he had stuck with de Silva and Quinn had challenged Colace, then the problem would have eased. However Harper followed the ball towards Colace and you can see the look on Quinn's face, thinking "Where's Harper going?" and where shall I go. Quinn ends up doing nothing, but it's not really his fault. If you want to be ultra critical, Quinn should have gone to mark de Silva, when Harper followed the ball.

For the second goal, I actually blame Treacy. If he had marked their right winger, then Geary could have taken a more sensible covering position to help out the central defenders. As Kozluk was taking the free kick, this would have been more sensible, as Treacy is doing nothing in the position he has taken. As it turned out, Geary was unable to help out Davies when Macken turned Davies. In my mind, each fullback should have one eye on their covering duties in the centre and one eye on their winger. Kilgallon did this very well in the first half when he stopped Bogdanovic. This is one area where Taylor has to improve in my opinion.

So I don't quite agree with your analysis. For me it is Harper and Treacy who are at fault for the goals. This lack of organisation is costing United. Some of it must be due to the lack of continuity within the players I would have thought.

 

[Bergen Blade]

PMSL - I opened this thread fully expecting Geary to feature heavily, but second sentence?? Bloody hell Bergs, give the little guy a break

Thanks for being one of rather few that actually opened the thread!

First paragraph is just a description of the situation. Why shouldn't I have said that Geary got his head to it? I like Geary, he's got a lot of good qualities and I'm glad he's back. I am also sure that it it not him that insisted on him being one of two players challenging for a header following a long throw. This type of defensive organisation, determining who marks who and who stands where, is the responsibility of the management.

In my opinion the main mistake here is the lack of a zone man behind the first challenge. It is what causes Quinn and Harper to become ball watching.

Individuals are not important when doing analyses. I state what I think we could have done, and no breaks will be given to anyone.

 

[Bergen Blade]

For the first goal, I think Harper is to blame. If he had stuck with de Silva and Quinn had challenged Colace, then the problem would have eased. However Harper followed the ball towards Colace and you can see the look on Quinn's face, thinking "Where's Harper going?" and where shall I go. Quinn ends up doing nothing, but it's not really his fault. If you want to be ultra critical, Quinn should have gone to mark de Silva, when Harper followed the ball.

I see who is losing who too. But do you ask yourself WHY they are pulled towards the ball? We will not always win the first header from a long throw. Sometimes the ball will be flicked on, and for example against Cardiff we allowed the ball to bounce in the area before Whittingham ran onto it and scored. Why not have a free man to attack or clear these loose balls?

For the second goal, I actually blame Treacy. If he had marked their right winger, then Geary could have taken a more sensible covering position to help out the central defenders. As Kozluk was taking the free kick, this would have been more sensible, as Treacy is doing nothing in the position he has taken. As it turned out, Geary was unable to help out Davies when Macken turned Davies. In my mind, each fullback should have one eye on their covering duties in the centre and one eye on their winger. Kilgallon did this very well in the first half when he stopped Bogdanovic.

In any case, who tells the players where to stand and who to mark at set pieces?

 

[Vistoma]

Perhaps we should watch how the opposition mark against us for long throws as we seem to do f**k all from them

 

[Grecian2000]

Perhaps we should watch how the opposition mark against us for long throws as we seem to do f**k all from them

Add to that corners and free kicks and I think we have a plan.

 

[TonyAgana]

1-0: We are still missing a zone man who doesn't have any marking responsibility.

Wilf's the zone.

 

[grafikhaus]

Bergen for manager! :thumbup:

 

[oldblade]

For the first goal, I think Harper is to blame. If he had stuck with de Silva and Quinn had challenged Colace, then the problem would have eased. However Harper followed the ball towards Colace and you can see the look on Quinn's face, thinking "Where's Harper going?" and where shall I go. Quinn ends up doing nothing, but it's not really his fault. If you want to be ultra critical, Quinn should have gone to mark de Silva, when Harper followed the ball.

For the second goal, I actually blame Treacy. If he had marked their right winger, then Geary could have taken a more sensible covering position to help out the central defenders. As Kozluk was taking the free kick, this would have been more sensible, as Treacy is doing nothing in the position he has taken. As it turned out, Geary was unable to help out Davies when Macken turned Davies. In my mind, each fullback should have one eye on their covering duties in the centre and one eye on their winger. Kilgallon did this very well in the first half when he stopped Bogdanovic. This is one area where Taylor has to improve in my opinion.

So I don't quite agree with your analysis. For me it is Harper and Treacy who are at fault for the goals. This lack of organisation is costing United. Some of it must be due to the lack of continuity within the players I would have thought.

The point is (very well highlighted by Bergen) that Harper should never have had to make a decision had the tactics been right and a zone man employed.

We conceding so many goals at the moment that it has got to the stage where 3 in the last 2 games actually seems quite good! The sheer number of goals being conceded suggests to me that there is something very wrong organisationally, rather than it being down to individual errors.

 

[Ollessendro]

Thanks again Bergen.

I have to agree with Knackered that Harper is at fault for the first goal. I don't give a monkeys anout systems, zonal defending, man marking or whatever. That is plain school boy defending. Harper forgets about his man and chases the ball (like an under 11 player would). It leaves enough space for Anderson to control and shoot.

Harper needs to get his act togehter. Time and time again Bergen, myself and others have pointed out that he could and should have broke up attacks that lead to goals. This week he was completely at fault. I like him mind. He's energetic, enthusiastic and looks good on the ball (when it's not hoofed over his head). However (particularly when playing with Quinn) he needs to defend better. He often looks leathargic tracking back and makes the wrong decision time and time again. Like him or not, this period has showed us how clearly we miss a good solid defensive midfielder such as Monty.

The second goal is typical of Sheffield United of late. Piss poor defending! Davies isn't strong enough in the challenge. Long hoofs like that should be bread and butter for him. Instead, not only does he get held off, but he gets turned as well. That's poor defending and mistake number 1. Geary is sleeping at this point and it's too late for him to help his centre back out. I'll forgive him for this as he's been out for a long time and as Knackewred points out he has one eye on the winger. Blaming Treacy is harsh though and I don't agree that it is his fault. Davies should have dealt with that long ball. Still there are more errors to come. The marking in the centre is awful. Fortune is terribly positioned and should be much tighter to Zlatan Ibrahimovic (yes we are making average players look like superstars again) and therefore he is also at fault. Fortune should never have given Zlatan that much space. Still, when Davies gets turned Walker can see we are in trouble. Walker has a good view (he can see Fortune is a) rubbish and b) out of position) and should be busting a gut to get infront of Ibrahimovic. People may think this is harsh on Walker. It's not his fault. However (and particularly with his pace) he could have saved us by being aware and working for his team mates. How many time has this happened in the last 8 weeks? Players not working hard enough for their team mates. Anyway, Imbrahimovic has an easy tap in (although he does his Ched Evans impression and almost misses) after a decent ball into the centre by Iniesta. Barnsley-celona 2-1 up.

 

[Rustyblade]

The sheer number of goals being conceded suggests to me that there is something very wrong organisationally, rather than it being down to individual errors.

Would it be hijacking to quote the Star in this case?

Blackwell - who recently insisted: "Whatever anyone says about one of my sides, they can't claim they're not organised".

 

[Come from away]

Bergen - appreciate the threads though don't comment much. Wife says I spend too much time on here as it is, happy to see you continue.