Genuine leadership?

[lenners]

Gibson's comments:
“When I sat down and considered our start to the season, I felt that the league table was actually more favourable than some of our performances.
“Then I looked at the important games against the teams immediately around us and took those results into account.
“In general the results and the performances have not been to the level I would have hoped for.
“Before last night, our five home games had brought in seven points. That will not get us promoted and promotion is the only objective for the season.”

Fair play to him for not taking the easy way out and pointing at a league table when he knew things weren't right with the performances.

 

[Micalijo]

Absolutely spot on. Clear, meaningful statements from the top.

Wish he had been born a Blade. Genuine investment in the team, silverware and European football.

But, we've missed the boat in that sense, so it really is pretty pointless other than producing a team we are proud to watch in whatever division that maybe.

What could be better than a 2-0 win Saturday and getting in to find Blackie has been sacked? Remember he'll get paid up so no need for sympathy.

 

[JohnDenver]

Maybe he should have looked at the league table when they were still in the Prem.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Maybe he should have looked at the league table when they were still in the Prem.

Exactly. I'm amazed that anyone can really claim Gibson has shown great leadership - Southgate was so clearly out of his depth he should have been ditched at the end of the 06/07 season, let alone at any of the numerous opportunities in the last two. It was a major gamble appointing him in the first place. And let's not forget Gibson's other masterstroke in employing Bryan Robson for as long as he did, and only ditching him after several stale seasons.

 

[lenners]

Exactly. I'm amazed that anyone can really claim Gibson has shown great leadership - Southgate was so clearly out of his depth he should have been ditched at the end of the 06/07 season, let alone at any of the numerous opportunities in the last two. It was a major gamble appointing him in the first place. And let's not forget Gibson's other masterstroke in employing Bryan Robson for as long as he did, and only ditching him after several stale seasons.

Crikey, I imagine most Boro fans can scarcely believe their luck in having Gibson as chairman for the last decade or so.
Must have been the most dramatic transformation of a going nowhere club in modern history.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Nice man I'm sure, and shown great backing to whoever's managed them. Good sense of what makes a good manager? Hasn't shown it so far.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Nice man I'm sure, and shown great backing to whoever's managed them. Good sense of what makes a good manager? Hasn't shown it so far.

Yep, more similarities with McCabe than appear at first glance.

 

[Ollessendro]

Gibson's comments:
“When I sat down and considered our start to the season, I felt that the league table was actually more favourable than some of our performances.
“Then I looked at the important games against the teams immediately around us and took those results into account.
“In general the results and the performances have not been to the level I would have hoped for.
“Before last night, our five home games had brought in seven points. That will not get us promoted and promotion is the only objective for the season.”

Fair play to him for not taking the easy way out and pointing at a league table when he knew things weren't right with the performances.

Genuine leadership yes. He wasn't convinced with Southgate and has got rid. He's shown a bit of steel. Well done Steve.

Exactly. I'm amazed that anyone can really claim Gibson has shown great leadership - Southgate was so clearly out of his depth he should have been ditched at the end of the 06/07 season, let alone at any of the numerous opportunities in the last two. It was a major gamble appointing him in the first place. And let's not forget Gibson's other masterstroke in employing Bryan Robson for as long as he did, and only ditching him after several stale seasons.

But hold your horses. Would you sooner have a 'genuine' chairman who is clearly a plank (at least on the football side). Yes he has invested millions into the club, but where's it got them. He gave deadweight managers such as Robson, Mclaren and Southgate loads of money. His judgement is awful. And he decides to sack Southgate when they are down. It was clear to everyone (but Gibson) that Southgate was taking Boro down last season. They have a decent team as well. It's not like Hull or Pompey this year.

 

[Micalijo]

Boro is a nothing club with very little history and a very average fan base. Yet thanks to Gibson they attracted serious international footballers and lived the dream for a decent amount of time. Yes, serious hiccups along the way and loads of debt now but I think it is widely accepted from what I read that he is one of best chairmen around. OK Boro fans may have been unhappy with manager but to have a go at Gibson would be total madness and far less justifiable than the growing amount of stick our great leader is getting now, in my opinion.

 

[Ollessendro]

Boro is a nothing club with very little history and a very average fan base. Yet thanks to Gibson they attracted serious international footballers and lived the dream for a decent amount of time. Yes, serious hiccups along the way and loads of debt now but I think it is widely accepted from what I read that he is one of best chairmen around. OK Boro fans may have been unhappy with manager but to have a go at Gibson would be total madness and far less justifiable than the growing amount of stick our great leader is getting now, in my opinion.

You serious micalojo? Someone who has invested 100-200 million (I've no idea of the figure but it is very high) and won bugger all. Ok they won an FA cup and we're in the Mickey Mouse EUFA cup (or whatever it is called). A guy who puts his blind faith in Brian Robson, Steve Mclaren and Gareth Southgate. This doesn't bode as one of the best chairmans in the business for me. Patient yes. Footballling brain and nouss, absolutely not!

 

[Micalijo]

Yes I am serious. I'm afraid I think your post is extremely poor Ollie. Not like you at all. I know you like having a pop but you usually do a lot better than that in terms of debate.

Factually wrong I believe and to call UEFA Cup Mickey Mouse for a club like Boro is really quite amusing.

 

[lenners]

Blimey, we haven't reached a cup final for over 70 years and we have fans who think Gibson doesn't know what he's doing after what Boro have achieved?

 

[Micalijo]

Must be silly season.

I'm sure Boro fans were cursing all those trips to Wembley and other venues for cup finals. I bet the trip to Rome was a right drag, and I'm sure that comeback in the UEFA cup semi meant nothing at all to the fans. After all, it was a meaningless competition.

 

[alcoblade]

I think what's being said is that in terms of picking managers, he's poor. That's because they've under achieved, given the massive backing Gibson has provided, where he's been exceptional.

UTB

 

[lenners]

I think what's being said is that in terms of picking managers, he's poor. That's because they've under achieved, given the massive backing Gibson has provided, where he's been exceptional.

UTB

Poor? How many cup finals? A European final? Fielding an entire team of players brought through the academy in a Premiership match?
I'll take that level of underachievement any day of the week.
They're only Middlesbrough for goodness sake.

 

[alcoblade]

Poor? How many cup finals? A European final? Fielding an entire team of players brought through the academy in a Premiership match?
I'll take that level of underachievement any day of the week.
They're only Middlesbrough for goodness sake.

Cup finals? One step better than our semi finals, but no cigar. But that's not my point.

Fielding academy players is either (or both) a measure of a good academy, or a failure of the players brought in. Neither necessarily reflect well on the manager.

That Gibson has been a force for good overall at Boro is undeniable, for me. That's a measure of his input in running the club and investment. But he has, in my opinion, hired 3 shite managers.

Robson, McClaren, Southgate. Care do disagree with any?

UTB

 

[S64 Blade]

Could you say 3 bad managers though? McClaren did get them to the UEFA cup final.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Fielding an entire team of players brought through the academy in a Premiership match?

How did that work out for them?

The only time they have ever seen any success is as a result of an enormous amount of money invested in the team. On both Robson-led promotions the amount spent dwarfed all other teams to such a ridiculous extent that anything other than promotion would have been a collosal failure. I would wager that any of the managers we have appointed from Bassett onwards would have been able to succeed with that degree of resources available to them. Their cup finals in the Juninho/Ravanelli et al years were to the detriment of their league standing - I don't think their fans were particularly consoled by the fact that their relegation season brought them 2 cup finals.

Under McLaren, they did very well in Europe, I will give you that, but again they spent a vast amount to help bring that success.

 

[lenners]

How did that work out for them?

The only time they have ever seen any success is as a result of an enormous amount of money invested in the team. On both Robson-led promotions the amount spent dwarfed all other teams to such a ridiculous extent that anything other than promotion would have been a collosal failure. I would wager that any of the managers we have appointed from Bassett onwards would have been able to succeed with that degree of resources available to them. Their cup finals in the Juninho/Ravanelli et al years were to the detriment of their league standing - I don't think their fans were particularly consoled by the fact that their relegation season brought them 2 cup finals.

Under McLaren, they did very well in Europe, I will give you that, but again they spent a vast amount to help bring that success.

How did that work out for them?
You can actually say that when we apparently haven't even got one single young player good enough to fill a place on our bench despite us being crap most of the season and playing in a crap league?
Jeez.

 

[lenners]

Cup finals? One step better than our semi finals, but no cigar. But that's not my point.

Fielding academy players is either (or both) a measure of a good academy, or a failure of the players brought in. Neither necessarily reflect well on the manager.

That Gibson has been a force for good overall at Boro is undeniable, for me. That's a measure of his input in running the club and investment. But he has, in my opinion, hired 3 shite managers.

Robson, McClaren, Southgate. Care do disagree with any?

UTB

Crumbs we really have got some deluded fans among our ranks if you really can't see what an immense success Middlesbrough have been over the last decade or so.
Southgate struggled but that was possibly inevitable after the hangover of a club like Middlesbrough for goodness sake reaching a European final.
As for the other two, their records stack up pretty well for a small town provincial club.
You can't argue with what they've achieved as a club and fair play to them for showing what can be possible.

 

[shorehamview]

Crumbs we really have got some deluded fans among our ranks if you really can't see what an immense success Middlesbrough have been over the last decade or so.

Yes, it's amazing what success spunking away the average income of a Central American Banana Republic on mediocre footballers can achieve. In the last 100 years they've won the League Cup once, and Division Two (in old money) twice. Bargain.

 

[alcoblade]

Crumbs we really have got some deluded fans among our ranks if you really can't see what an immense success Middlesbrough have been over the last decade or so.
Southgate struggled but that was possibly inevitable after the hangover of a club like Middlesbrough for goodness sake reaching a European final.
As for the other two, their records stack up pretty well for a small town provincial club.
You can't argue with what they've achieved as a club and fair play to them for showing what can be possible.

you're struggling with this aren't you Len. At no point am I questioning what Boro "achieved". I'm saying they;ve had 3 shite managers. Their achievements are a result of enormous investment. You may disagree, but stop side stepping.

UTB

 

[ghandi]

You serious micalojo? Someone who has invested 100-200 million (I've no idea of the figure but it is very high) and won bugger all. Ok they won an FA cup and we're in the Mickey Mouse EUFA cup (or whatever it is called). A guy who puts his blind faith in Brian Robson, Steve Mclaren and Gareth Southgate. This doesn't bode as one of the best chairmans in the business for me. Patient yes. Footballling brain and nouss, absolutely not!

Which is about 190-198 million that St Kev has invested. Gibson invested his money Mccabe like Strappon is looking for outside investment.

McCabe's quote to RS "Hey Seth there's nobody more ambitious than me". Sadly comparisons with Boro prove this is not case where in the case of Gibson his action has matched his words.

 

[Micalijo]

Some poeple will argue the world is flat, some will argue that Bunn is an adequate keeper, but this argument that somehow Gibson has not provided Boro's fans with what they could realistically have expected over the period of his ownership is quite easily the most ludicrous I have ever heard on any subject on any forum or media outlet.

 

[shorehamview]

McCabe's quote to RS "Hey Seth there's nobody more ambitious than me".

There are things you can measure, like bank balance, inside leg, skidders in pants and so on. And there are things that aren't quantifiable, like love, passion, commitment and ambition. For example, who is the more passionate? The fan who shouts and screams every mnatch, or the one who keeps quiet but ends up with high blood pressure and a heart attack?

How can McCabe say that "there's nobody more ambitious than me"? I reckon that there are many United fans who have put a higher percentage of their money into United than McCabe has. I want United to be winning trophies every season. I want us to win the Champion's League three years in a row. Does that mean I have more ambition than McCabe, who merely wants us to be a successful Premier League club?

 

[Micalijo]

There are things you can measure, like bank balance, inside leg, skidders in pants and so on. And there are things that aren't quantifiable, like love, passion, commitment and ambition. For example, who is the more passionate? The fan who shouts and screams every mnatch, or the one who keeps quiet but ends up with high blood pressure and a heart attack?

How can McCabe say that "there's nobody more ambitious than me"? I reckon that there are many United fans who have put a higher percentage of their money into United than McCabe has. I want United to be winning trophies every season. I want us to win the Champion's League three years in a row. Does that mean I have more ambition than McCabe, who merely wants us to be a successful Premier League club?

Are you saying that screaming at Blackwell (ie KB Out) is good for your health? If so, can you get word around a bit for Saturday please? I really hope you are right by the way.

 

[lenners]

you're struggling with this aren't you Len. At no point am I questioning what Boro "achieved". I'm saying they;ve had 3 shite managers. Their achievements are a result of enormous investment. You may disagree, but stop side stepping.

UTB

Not struggling in the slightest.
Middlesbrough have massively over-achieved over the last decade or so and I don't think that would have been possible with three 'shite' managers.
Not managerial geniuses but 'shite'? Nope.

 

[Darren]

Not struggling in the slightest.
Middlesbrough have massively over-achieved over the last decade or so and I don't think that would have been possible with three 'shite' managers.
Not managerial geniuses but 'shite'? Nope.

Have to agree with you. Over the last 15 seasons, Middlesbrough have spent 12 seasons in the premier league, reached 1 FA Cup final, 3 League Cup finals (winning one) and a UEFA Cup final. You don't do that with shite managers, no matter how much money you invest.

 

[ghandi]

There are things you can measure, like bank balance, inside leg, skidders in pants and so on. And there are things that aren't quantifiable, like love, passion, commitment and ambition. For example, who is the more passionate? The fan who shouts and screams every mnatch, or the one who keeps quiet but ends up with high blood pressure and a heart attack?

How can McCabe say that "there's nobody more ambitious than me"? I reckon that there are many United fans who have put a higher percentage of their money into United than McCabe has. I want United to be winning trophies every season. I want us to win the Champion's League three years in a row. Does that mean I have more ambition than McCabe, who merely wants us to be a successful Premier League club?

I take your point but if you see my post in full I was highlighting how Gibson was prepared to invest his own money to match his ambitions whereas the achievements of SUFC on the football field (trophy success and playing style) wouldn't seem to feature too highly on our Chairman's list of ambitions

 

[alcoblade]

Have to agree with you. Over the last 15 seasons, Middlesbrough have spent 12 seasons in the premier league, reached 1 FA Cup final, 3 League Cup finals (winning one) and a UEFA Cup final. You don't do that with shite managers, no matter how much money you invest.

...and I'll have to disagree. Southgate, Robson and McClaren prove it to me.

Surely there's no debate that Robson is "shite"? He acheived much the same as the rest. If you chuck enough money at it, you can almost polish a turd.

UTB