Gary Neville in MNF

[Davalon]

If football is serious about cleaning itself up, then it needs to do it across the board unequivocally.

Managers need to stop asking fans to create a hostile environment at home games to intimidate the opposition.

High profile players need much stronger punishments for verbally abusing referees like we see most weeks on tv.

And as this stems from society as a whole, we need to tackle racism and racist comments across the whole spectrum. No softly softly approach to certain MPs or non whites, because it's 'sensitive' or doesn't fit the agenda.

You don't tackle or improve racism by choosing the bits that suit you. It exists across every race, religion, and culture, and until it's shown to be completely intolerable across the board, too much of it is just for show.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

Check his stats for Man City.

Do you think the correlation between the likes of you giving him extreme criticism compared to if say Harry Kane missed the same chance, and how it’s portrayed in the media has anything to do with why he’s below average for his talent level for England - yet has a great scoring record for the best team on the planet under the encouraging Pep Guardiola?

I was referring to him playing for England. I don`t support Man. City, but do support England. Whether his England performances are the result of media criticism, or whether his performances brought about the media criticism, I will leave you to judge. A one off miss from Harry Kane is a red herring in the context of this discussion.

 

[Davalon]

I think the Ashley Cole angle is revisionism. If i remember correctly, Ashley Cole ended up being the highest capped english full back ever and he was 33 yrs old when he retired from the england side, prior to leaving for Roma. At that point he was no longer the player he once was, had an ankle injury that he couldn't shake and he'd lost his blistering pace. Roma soon realised this, and he only made 11 appearances in two seasons in rome. he's since moved on to the US, which in all fairness is a joke league.

In 2014, at international level Luke Shaw & Leighton Baines (Baines was chosen ahead of him in the Professional Footballers’ Association’s team of the year) were seen as better/younger players, and at club level, Chelsea thought that Filipe Luis was a better option. Cole's top flight career basically came to an end, and he dropped out of the spotlight. No matter the player, i don't expect to be kept informed of how a 37 yr ex international full back is getting on for the Hackensack Woodturners in the US leagues.

He was voted england player of the year in 2010, he was given a special award on reaching 100 caps and again on his 102nd cap (he was made captain). A fuss was made.

Obviously you can't totally discount a racial element to Cole's unpopularity, but I put it part down to him shooting a work experience kid with an air rifle and refusing to apologise until pressured, for thinking that Arsenal should pay £5k a week to his agent on his behalf, who thought £55k a week was a gross insult (he wanted £60k a week with £5k going to said Agent), who told reporters to 'fuck off' when asked to speak to the media after winning the Champions League, who disrespected the ‘Respect’ campaign by turning his back on the ref when being booked, who used to put in some awful challenges on his fellow professionals, who labelled the Football Association a 'bunch of twats', who posed in a white frilly suit for a lottery ad campaign, who allegedly had three affairs behind cheryl coles back, who thought he'd achieved enough at 25 to write an autobiography, who got done driving at over 100 mph in a 50 and argued the toss. Arsenal fans called him 'Cashley' cole due to his percieved greed and lack of gratitude. He comes over as being a bit of an arse to be honest.

The amount of people suddenly forgetting all that and blaming it all on his skin colour is revisionism in the extreme.

 

[Davalon]

Why is calling out racism such a red rag to a bull for some (presumably white) people? Why are people so quick to say 'that's not racism'? How has this possibly generated five pages of debate? Everyone has presumably accepted now that racism = bad, so why are we so quick to say it's not the case, rather than investigate why some people suggest it is? Raheem Sterling has literally nothing to gain from calling it out.

I'd love to have a proper objective discussion about this.

Calling out racism doesn't seem a rag bull to anyone on here.

It's the utter hypocrisy and revisionism that is grinding some gears.

If Chris Wilder got accused of a racist comment with no equivocal proof at the time, what do you think the overwhelming view on here would be?

 

[Davalon]

Carlton Palmer.

Racism the reason for his popularity on here?

 

[Eric Cartman]

I was referring to him playing for England. I don`t support Man. City, but do support England. Whether his England performances are the result of media criticism, or whether his performances brought about the media criticism, I will leave you to judge. A one off miss from Harry Kane is a red herring in the context of this discussion.

Harry Kane misses quite a few chances for England. But that doesn’t fit with the agenda you have against Sterling, who’s a winger not a striker.

 

[Deleted member 875]

The reason for Carlton Palmers lack of popularity on here is because he was/is a cunt.

 

[LondonBlade89]

Calling out racism doesn't seem a rag bull to anyone on here.

It's the utter hypocrisy and revisionism that is grinding some gears.

If Chris Wilder got accused of a racist comment with no equivocal proof at the time, what do you think the overwhelming view on here would be?

Having read five pages of talk, I'm fairly certain it does seem like a red rag to a bull. But OK, ignoring that, where's the hypocrisy? I've seen you talking about Ashley Cole revisionism. So I get that. The hypocrisy?

As for the Wilder comment, I don't get how that's relevant.

 

[Eric Cartman]

It’s 2018, people are offended by everything and that’s sad. Even the word faggot in Fairtytale of New York - we know this and as a society we have a number of snowflakes.

BUT - and I cannot stress this enough - if you don’t think Sterling is subjected to over the top criticism due to his race you are a first class moron. Harry Kane dives to win a foul and it’s ‘clever forward play’ - Sterling or Alli? ‘England star diving shame’.

Racism is prevalent in the press. It might be because the head honchos ARE racist, it might just be to shamefully sell their product, to generate clickbait, to gain more publicity because after all no publicity is bad publicity.

If you can’t see it you’re missing what’s staring you straight in the face.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

What's the chance of Tosin Adarabioyo going to his local bank, asking for the terms of a mortgage in proportion to his salary?

Do people actually think people go out and spend £2,500,000 in a single transaction?

Who are we to judge, stop following the words of the media and start to think for yourselves.

You've asked 2 questions there that you don't even know the answers to.

Who has even said he spent 2.5m in a single transaction? He probably did the same as Foden, who the original comparison was made with., therefore the point still stands.

 

[Davalon]

Having read five pages of talk, I'm fairly certain it does seem like a red rag to a bull. But OK, ignoring that, where's the hypocrisy? I've seen you talking about Ashley Cole revisionism. So I get that. The hypocrisy?

As for the Wilder comment, I don't get how that's relevant.

Because racists clearly exist, and therefore a white racist football fan may well find Cole and Sterling a target for them.

In the same way a racist United fan might see Carlton Palmer as a target.

Palmer has had plenty of stick on here at times. If someone had suggested racism was the underlying reason for that, what do you think the overwhelming reaction on here would have been, even from the more moderate considered posters?

As for Wilder, my point was that I'm extremely confident he would get huge support on here if accused of 100% unproven racism. Just like Terry got from many quarters despite his comments being clear as day to a blind man on a flying horse.

This is the hypocrisy.

I'm not supporting any kind of racism. It boils my piss how people think they can just choose which racism to they wish to confront when it suits their agenda, rather than constantly attack all of it.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I think quite a few of the posters on this thread are missing a salient point and as a result cannot see the issue. I say this with sincerity - the crowd at the Lane are guilty of a few things but racism is not one of them. In this instance the Lane crowd are a poor reference point for commenting on racist behaviour, for the right reasons. At no time have I seen anything like that being reported elsewhere recently, nor have I for 20+ years now. Some of the stuff witnessed at other grounds and in the media is beyond belief in this day and age and is abhorrent, RS & GN are 100% correct in what they say. Does anyone really think Kyle Walker would sit amongst our fans if the redneck shits being identified at other grounds were sat amongst them?

 

[Davalon]

The reason for Carlton Palmers lack of popularity on here is because he was/is a cunt.

Exactly. And Ashley Cole wasn't?

If he'd played for the Pigs he'd be up there with the most hated for sure.

 

[LondonBlade89]

Because racists clearly exist, and therefore a white racist football fan may well find Cole and Sterling a target for them.

In the same way a racist United fan might see Carlton Palmer as a target.

Palmer has had plenty of stick on here at times. If someone had suggested racism was the underlying reason for that, what do you think the overwhelming reaction on here would have been, even from the more moderate considered posters?

As for Wilder, my point was that I'm extremely confident he would get huge support on here if accused of 100% unproven racism. Just like Terry got from many quarters despite his comments being clear as day to a blind man on a flying horse.

This is the hypocrisy.

I'm not supporting any kind of racism. It boils my piss how people think they can just choose which racism to they wish to confront when it suits their agenda, rather than constantly attack all of it.

This reply has thrown me. So basically your issue is with double standards? Like people accusing the media of being racist when they wouldn't accuse Chris Wilder of the same thing? I think that's an entirely separate point about owning up to and accepting negative things about someone who means a lot to you. I don't think that's an issue specific to race. Clearly, it can be a race issue, but it'd be the same if Wilder was offensive in other ways too.

It's your prerogative but I do find it odd that the biggest thing in all of this that annoys you is that people "think they can just choose which racism to confront when it suits their agenda, rather than constantly attack all of it"?

I mean, it is annoying if someone acknowledges the racism of some people but not those close to their heart. But I think the bigger issue is when people don't acknowledge racism at all.

 

[Davalon]

I think quite a few of the posters on this thread are missing a salient point and as a result cannot see the issue. I say this with sincerity - the crowd at the Lane are guilty of a few things but racism is not one of them. In this instance the Lane crowd are a poor reference point for commenting on racist behaviour, for the right reasons. At no time have I seen anything like that being reported elsewhere recently, nor have I for 20+ years now. Some of the stuff witnessed at other grounds and in the media is beyond belief in this day and age and is abhorrent, RS & GN are 100% correct in what they say. Does anyone really think Kyle Walker would sit amongst our fans if the redneck shits being identified at other grounds were sat amongst them?

Come and tell that to the known 'face' in his 50s who sits near me. Once or twice a season he likes to espouse his views on black players.

I believe he may have been reported but has never been banned.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Come and tell that to the known 'face' in his 50s who sits near me. Once or twice a season he likes to espouse his views on black players.

I believe he may have been reported but has never been banned.

Just chin the cunt

 

[Davalon]

This reply has thrown me. So basically your issue is with double standards? Like people accusing the media of being racist when they wouldn't accuse Chris Wilder of the same thing? I think that's an entirely separate point about owning up to and accepting negative things about someone who means a lot to you. I don't think that's an issue specific to race. Clearly, it can be a race issue, but it'd be the same if Wilder was offensive in other ways too.

It's your prerogative but I do find it odd that the biggest thing in all of this that annoys you is that people "think they can just choose which racism to confront when it suits their agenda, rather than constantly attack all of it"?

I mean, it is annoying if someone acknowledges the racism of some people but not those close to their heart. But I think the bigger issue is when people don't acknowledge racism at all.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be acknowledged at all.

If people can't see why a professional footballer defending John Terry, but hanging a fan out to dry for at worst the exact same comment, is a problem in dealing with this then I give up.

You don't root out this problem and resolve it in any way but just choosing the victims that suit you. It seems clear too many in society wish to do just that.

 

[Davalon]

Just chin the cunt

I did have words a few years ago. If I told you who backed him up you'd despair.

 

[LondonBlade89]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be acknowledged at all.

If people can't see why a professional footballer defending John Terry, but hanging a fan out to dry for at worst the exact same comment, is a problem in dealing with this then I give up.

You don't root out this problem and resolve it in any way but just choosing the victims that suit you. It seems clear too many in society wish to do just that.

No need to give up. It turns out we're basically arguing the same point. I guess you weren't the one I was speaking to with my original post.

I completely agree that throwing the book at a fan and letting John Terry off is diabolical. Terry is an absolute weapon. To be honest, to even repeat the line back at Anton Ferdinand in the way he did is (which was his defence) absolutely not on and indicative of someone comfortable with racist language. But that's another discussion.

 

[Bert]

Exactly. And Ashley Cole wasn't?

If he'd played for the Pigs he'd be up there with the most hated for sure.

He wouldn't be more hated than Terry Curran though.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

As an aside, the Daily Mail has named and posted the address and photograph of the home of the Chelsea fan involved on its website, which is f'king totally unforgivable in my humble opinion.

 

[Eric Cartman]

As an aside, the Daily Mail has named and posted the address and photograph of the home of the Chelsea fan involved on its website, which is f'king totally unforgivable in my humble opinion.

Couldn’t agree more especially when they’re as guilty of it as he is

 

[gordoncharles]

As an aside, the Daily Mail has named and posted the address and photograph of the home of the Chelsea fan involved on its website, which is f'king totally unforgivable in my humble opinion.

Thanks for the tip. There's nothing there that doesn't lead me to believe this whole thing is blown out of all proportion and it's not even essential they find some actual racism. The way trial by media works is that someone is having to prove he didn't say something, which is of course impossible. But we shall see. One corroborating witness will be enough. At the moment the Mail can't even find someone to complete the charcater assasination in his own street. And they will have tried.

I did actually love this line from the Mail. Clearly they've being holding a seance to try and find the smoking gun proof

"Joe Mercer was a few seats along when the incident took place during Chelsea's match against Manchester City"

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Thanks for the tip. There's nothing there that doesn't lead me to believe this whole thing is blown out of all proportion and it's not even essential they find some actual racism. The way trial by media works is that someone is having to prove he didn't say something, which is of course impossible. But we shall see. One corroborating witness will be enough. At the moment the Mail can't even find someone to complete the charcater assasination in his own street. And they will have tried.

I did actually love this line from the Mail. Clearly they've being holding a seance to try and find the smoking gun proof

"Joe Mercer was a few seats along when the incident took place during Chelsea's match against Manchester City"

The whole unsavory episode also highlights the gross unfairness of the operation of the economic system in this country; the north/south divide. The value of his house has gone up over £1m since he bought it less than 20 yrs ago. The bastard.

 

[Fanny magnet]

As an aside, the Daily Mail has named and posted the address and photograph of the home of the Chelsea fan involved on its website, which is f'king totally unforgivable in my humble opinion.

Did they get it off their mailing list

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

Harry Kane misses quite a few chances for England. But that doesn’t fit with the agenda you have against Sterling, who’s a winger not a striker.

I don`t have an agenda against Sterling. You try to make it sound as if I have decided to dislike him as an individual and then form an agenda to exploit that. You are introducing a racist agenda which is nothing at all to do with my comments and criticism of him purely as an England player. Harry Kane has nothing to do with it. You are looking to broadly attach a racist label where it does not belong.

 

[anglian blade]

I am not sure that calling someone a black cunt is racist. Offensive yes , racist? It depends on the context. At football matches cunt is preceeded by fat, slow, irish, scots, ginger, or any other characteristic the abuser can think of. Monkey chants and banana throwing are clearly racist and calling someone a black cunt in a situation where no abuse is being hurled would be too, but football crowds have always been places where being abuseive offensive is commonplace.

 

[Bladesman]

 

[Captain Obvious]

Didn't Yaya Toure accuse him of being racist for not playing him? Or was it because he didn't get a birthday card...I can't remember.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Didn't Yaya Toure accuse him of being racist for not playing him? Or was it because he didn't get a birthday card...I can't remember.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...cuses-pep-guardiola-having-problems-africans/