Gary Neville in MNF

[coolhandluke]

How do you believe the media have ‘covered up’ grooming gangs?

They haven't. That's the job of the police force and local authorities.

 

[Deleted member 875]

How do you believe the media have ‘covered up’ grooming gangs?

 

[Bannerman]

The Tosin article was at a time when the issue of young players being vastly overpaid was a big talking point in the game. Also written by two different journalists, months apart, so bound to be written differently

Fair enough, but as I said you can understand black players being bit sensitive over stuff like that and as both play for the same club as Stirling you can see why he picked up on it.

As for grooming gangs the police and local councils are the guilty party's in that one.As I understand it a Times reporter played a significant part in exposing the Rotherham scandal.

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

Surprisingly for such an obvious gentleman the Chelsea fan appears to be lying.



Because it happens at every single football match doesn't make it acceptable. Why some grown adults feel the neccessity to shout obscene abuse at players is beyond me. I have no problem with swearing, I've been following the Blades since Hagan's era and let's be honest it's been difficult at times to keep a civil tongue, however, screaming insults at a particular individual is pathetic.

Perhaps Hal Cruttenden may have a point.

No ones saying it’s okay to abuse footballers on the terraces .
And no it doesn’t clearly show that he said those words even the black guy 2 rows behind said he did not hear any racial slurs .
And I’m no lip reader but I’d say black and manc could be quite similar.

Just feel it’s a bit wrong for a guy who may not have said what he’s accused of to lose his job etc , just because everyone has now all of a sudden decided to war a campaign.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The problem is that everyone is different, too many variables, people have totally different motives for being abusive and people have different motives for using racist language.

Some people want to create hurt and offense because in their mind it rattles the opponent and makes their performance worse, so perversely they think they are helping their club win a match. For others it’s an expression/ release for their personal pent up life frustrations, other people are plain stupid and have no awareness about what they do and the implications, others have mental health issues, some are anti establishment and if they do the oppositive of what they are told to do and of course for others their motivation is to express their internal racism.

A fan will abuse an overweight player by calling him fatty.
An feminine looking player they might call fairy or gay.
A player with long hair they might call gypo.
A black player, they think it might cause offense and upset their performance if they racially abuse.
Regards Sharp someone might make abusive references to his late son Louie.

Racism is only part of the issue, the bigger picture (which is getting worse due to social media) is that people thinks it’s normal to verbally abuse. Some even argue that it’s part of the passion in football making their territory more hostile giving them a badge of honour.

In the group of Chelsea fan in the video above I can see a black person stood next to them, wonder if he said anything?
If a black person uses the N word and abuses a fellow black player, then is that also racism.
What about the racism (using the N word and referring to women as prostitues) in rap music, shouldn’t that be banned?
But that’s another issue.

 

[coolhandluke]

No ones saying it’s okay to abuse footballers on the terraces .
And no it doesn’t clearly show that he said those words even the black guy 2 rows behind said he did not hear any racial slurs .
And I’m no lip reader but I’d say black and manc could be quite similar.

Just feel it’s a bit wrong for a guy who may not have said what he’s accused of to lose his job etc , just because everyone has now all of a sudden decided to war a campaign.

You've almost hit the nail fairly and squarely on the head there .

We all appear to be in serious danger of attempting to link two completely unrelated incidents .

The first incident involves sections of the media highlighting and vilifying the actions of a tactless, thoughtless, stupid individual who happens to be a very well paid high profile footballer .

The second incident involves a cretinous sub human thing racially abusing a football player .

How are the two related ? Are we saying that if sections of the media hadn't targeted RS he wouldn't have been racially abused . Does anyone seriously maintain that the obnoxious fucking prick at Stamford Bridge has only ever racially abused one player ? Seriously ????

Edit: I did say ' almost ' nailed it Wise, and the reason I say almost is because the prick at Chelsea was clearly racially abusing RS.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Agreed Jamie carragher taking the moral high ground is a bit rich when he was the captain of a team wearing tshirts supporting a racist

Yep. A man who spat in the face of a young girl not 6 months ago, taking the high moral ground doesn't sit comfortably with me...

Dare I say, I've seen/heard Jack Grealish get more abuse than any other footballer both online and in the ground... But I guess that's ok...

The wider issue is common decency towards fellow human beings first and foremost. Manc or black cunt - it's still not the behaviour you'd expect of a grown adult in 2018

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

You've almost hit the nail fairly and squarely on the head there .

We all appear to be in serious danger of attempting to link two completely unrelated incidents .

The first incident involves sections of the media highlighting and vilifying the actions of a tactless, thoughtless, stupid individual who happens to be a very well paid high profile footballer .

The second incident involves a cretinous sub human thing racially abusing a football player .

How are the two related ? Are we saying that if sections of the media hadn't targeted RS he wouldn't have been racially abused . Does anyone seriously maintain that the obnoxious fucking prick at Stamford Bridge has only ever racially abused one player ? Seriously ????

Edit: I did say ' almost ' nailed it Wise, and the reason I say almost is because the prick at Chelsea was clearly racially abusing RS.

Yeah but why was he non of us are lip readers what happened to innocent till proven guilty
No doubt the Chelsea fan is scum but not sure he says black instead of manc

 

[coolhandluke]

Yeah but why was he non of us are lip readers what happened to innocent till proven guilty
No doubt the Chelsea fan is scum but not sure he says black instead of manc

I'm no lip reader mate but it's patently obvious what he's saying .

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

I'm no lip reader mate but it's patently obvious what he's saying .

It isn’t it’s either black or manc

 

[Bannerman]

Yeah but why was he non of us are lip readers what happened to innocent till proven guilty
No doubt the Chelsea fan is scum but not sure he says black instead of manc

Seems pretty obvious what he's saying, while I agree with him being banned from football grounds, which will no doubt be a relief to the poor sods who sit near him, I'm not much in agreement with him losing his job.
If that part is true then unless his job entails something that is relevant to his behaviour then it seems a bit over the top. Banning should be the end of it.

 

[LJBlade]

It isn’t it’s either black or manc

I wasn't sure, until I saw the close up video that Bannerman posted in post #54.

Watching that it seems fairly obvious to me that he's saying 'black'.

 

[stringer]

Poor hate-preacher Tommy/Stephen, bound by the same reporting restrictions as everyone else - to ensure people get a fair trial

 

[stringer]

Fair enough, but as I said you can understand black players being bit sensitive over stuff like that and as both play for the same club as Stirling you can see why he picked up on it.

As for grooming gangs the police and local councils are the guilty party's in that one.As I understand it a Times reporter played a significant part in exposing the Rotherham scandal.

I can. Not excusing it, just offering a bit of context that might have been overlooked

 

[Blade56]

Tackled the Raheem Sterling racism issue - head on.

Shame sterling saw fit to have an automatic rifle tattooed on his leg. Diminishes his moral position somewhat. That said there is no room for racism and we should all confront any racism we witness (albeit risking life and limb).

 

[Davalon]

If I heard a United fan racially abusing a player I'd confront him in a second.

I find it quite interesting what lengths people will go to in arguing that whatever has happened isn't racist, when they have no proof either way. The argument in the press has moved on to the fact that racism is on the rise in society and football fans are just a reflection of that rise. This is fact. It isn't made up to suit an agenda.

If you think it is, go out and proove it, just saying that there isn't an issue and saying that black people who raise this as an issue are blaming others for their own failings really shows how fundamentally racist you are. (Davalon that's not directed at you, just the first line).

Nice straw man but I accept it's not aimed at me personally.

No-one from what I've seen is defending racism, and not that many defending verbal abuse of any kind.

What we've got, however, is one incident with a few fans abusing a player where one comment may or may not have included the word black (having watched it a number of times I think the bloke with glasses said Manc). I note Sterling hasn't been directly quoted as saying he said that, and has spoken more of his concern over the press.

The hypocrisy is strong on this one, as is the use of this incident to further agendas.

Brexit hasn't made more racists, is just given a bit more of a voice to a few existing racists. Racism at football in this country hasn't spiralled because of Brexit.

The biggest statement Football and the players in this country could have made against racism, was to hammer John Terry. Instead he got off lightly, with many black players even vouching for him. A fan who may not have even used racist language has been tried and found guilty by some of those same people.

Likewise the amount of United fans commenting on the fact that it doesn't matter if racist language was used against Sterling, because any abuse is out of order, is ok but then why aren't they saying this when our fans do it every single game.

 

[Bert]

Yeah but why was he non of us are lip readers what happened to innocent till proven guilty
No doubt the Chelsea fan is scum but not sure he says black instead of manc

Silent Blade, are you able to be of assistance here

 

[I should coco]

Why some grown adults feel the neccessity to shout obscene abuse at players is beyond me. I have no problem with swearing, I've been following the Blades since Hagan's era and let's be honest it's been difficult at times to keep a civil tongue, however, screaming insults at a particular individual is pathetic.

Your 'pathetic' is my 'support'. I like to think that some of the abuse I gave Chris Woods that rainy night at the Pig, contributed to him having such a shit game.

Prehaps the next time Gareth Ainsworth makes an appearance in the away dug out, you will join me in some applause for his footballing achievements,

Well said. There are plenty who just need abuse.

I'm a grown man and of course know it isn't big and it isn't clever, but the game isn't played in a kindergarten and some players just deserve it.

Also written by two different journalists, months apart, so bound to be written differently

One was in the printed paper and one online. I'm not normailly a defender of the Daily Fascist, but the old "society's to blame" line does wear a bit thin at times.

 

[stringer]

One was in the printed paper and one online. I'm not normailly a defender of the Daily Fascist, but the old "society's to blame" line does wear a bit thin at times.

Was it? I've only seen grabs of both stories online to be honest

 

[Eric Cartman]

Racism is unacceptable, but it's also unacceptable to call something racist when it isn't, and it needs to be called out. The media articles have absolutely nothing to do with race, it's really that simple. Saying there are 'racial undertones' in a factually correct sports article, is quite frankly ridiculous, in my opinion.

I’d love you to explain this then

 

[Silent Blade]

Silent Blade, are you able to be of assistance here

Not really, there is a lot of guesswork in lip-reading. It depends on how good the speaker is at lipspeaking. I have difficulty in understanding people with broad accents such as Scottish, Scouse and Geordies. Am unable to see the video at work but might do when I get home. Just asked a workmate to say "Manc" and "Black" to me. They are similar but there is obvious tongue movement for "Black"

 

[Eric Cartman]

Anyone who doesn’t think Sterling is being subjected to harsher treatment than his white counterparts due to him being black is a fucking idiot.

Fair point Gary made about Ashley Cole as well. Best left back in England and Premier League history and he was basically forgotten about as soon as he left the division. No big fuss about him when he played either, simply vilified for moving to Chelsea for ‘money’.

 

[Silent Blade]

Silent Blade, are you able to be of assistance here

Thinking again, if someone is speaking I would trust a friend's (or one of my children's) hearing (and interpret for me) more than my lip-reading skills

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

Anyone who doesn’t think Sterling is being subjected to harsher treatment than his white counterparts due to him being black is a fucking idiot.

Fair point Gary made about Ashley Cole as well. Best left back in England and Premier League history and he was basically forgotten about as soon as he left the division. No big fuss about him when he played either, simply vilified for moving to Chelsea for ‘money’.

I am more critical of Sterling than any other regular England player. That is because of his abysmal scoring record as a forward, his lack of vision, his inability to choose the best option as regards passing, or when to keep the ball. His race, religion, class, or any other personal element, has nothing whatsoever to do with the "treatment" I give him. Do I qualify for the description in your first sentence ?

 

[Bannerman]

Your 'pathetic' is my 'support'. I like to think that some of the abuse I gave Chris Woods that rainy night at the Pig, contributed to him having such a shit game.



Well said. There are plenty who just need abuse.

I'm a grown man and of course know it isn't big and it isn't clever, but the game isn't played in a kindergarten and some players just deserve it..

I was also less than kind to Christopher that night, however my comments - which he couldn't hear anyway - were more concerned with his inability to catch a cold and an enquiry as to whether or not he was a vampire, seeing as how he was so afraid of crosses.
At no time did I mention his race, religion or his mother.

My views on Gareth Ainsworth and Andy Johnson are explained in post 60 on page 3 of this thread.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Anyone who doesn’t think Sterling is being subjected to harsher treatment than his white counterparts due to him being black is a fucking idiot.

Fair point Gary made about Ashley Cole as well. Best left back in England and Premier League history and he was basically forgotten about as soon as he left the division. No big fuss about him when he played either, simply vilified for moving to Chelsea for ‘money’.

I think the Ashley Cole angle is revisionism. If i remember correctly, Ashley Cole ended up being the highest capped english full back ever and he was 33 yrs old when he retired from the england side, prior to leaving for Roma. At that point he was no longer the player he once was, had an ankle injury that he couldn't shake and he'd lost his blistering pace. Roma soon realised this, and he only made 11 appearances in two seasons in rome. he's since moved on to the US, which in all fairness is a joke league.

In 2014, at international level Luke Shaw & Leighton Baines (Baines was chosen ahead of him in the Professional Footballers’ Association’s team of the year) were seen as better/younger players, and at club level, Chelsea thought that Filipe Luis was a better option. Cole's top flight career basically came to an end, and he dropped out of the spotlight. No matter the player, i don't expect to be kept informed of how a 37 yr ex international full back is getting on for the Hackensack Woodturners in the US leagues.

He was voted england player of the year in 2010, he was given a special award on reaching 100 caps and again on his 102nd cap (he was made captain). A fuss was made.

Obviously you can't totally discount a racial element to Cole's unpopularity, but I put it part down to him shooting a work experience kid with an air rifle and refusing to apologise until pressured, for thinking that Arsenal should pay £5k a week to his agent on his behalf, who thought £55k a week was a gross insult (he wanted £60k a week with £5k going to said Agent), who told reporters to 'fuck off' when asked to speak to the media after winning the Champions League, who disrespected the ‘Respect’ campaign by turning his back on the ref when being booked, who used to put in some awful challenges on his fellow professionals, who labelled the Football Association a 'bunch of twats', who posed in a white frilly suit for a lottery ad campaign, who allegedly had three affairs behind cheryl coles back, who thought he'd achieved enough at 25 to write an autobiography, who got done driving at over 100 mph in a 50 and argued the toss. Arsenal fans called him 'Cashley' cole due to his percieved greed and lack of gratitude. He comes over as being a bit of an arse to be honest.

 

[Manuel Azaña]

The over reactive unstable behaviour is way over the top, sometime it looks like the abusers have mental health issues.

I'm looking forward to perpetuating this myth the next time i'll be down at BDTBL.

Maybe i'm just 'over reacting' in my unstable world?

 

[Eric Cartman]

I am more critical of Sterling than any other regular England player. That is because of his abysmal scoring record as a forward, his lack of vision, his inability to choose the best option as regards passing, or when to keep the ball. His race, religion, class, or any other personal element, has nothing whatsoever to do with the "treatment" I give him. Do I qualify for the description in your first sentence ?

Check his stats for Man City.

Do you think the correlation between the likes of you giving him extreme criticism compared to if say Harry Kane missed the same chance, and how it’s portrayed in the media has anything to do with why he’s below average for his talent level for England - yet has a great scoring record for the best team on the planet under the encouraging Pep Guardiola?

 

[LondonBlade89]

Why is calling out racism such a red rag to a bull for some (presumably white) people? Why are people so quick to say 'that's not racism'? How has this possibly generated five pages of debate? Everyone has presumably accepted now that racism = bad, so why are we so quick to say it's not the case, rather than investigate why some people suggest it is? Raheem Sterling has literally nothing to gain from calling it out.

I'd love to have a proper objective discussion about this.

 

[Manuel Azaña]

I think it is a joke that a guy who nobody has heard of, nowhere near the first team and might never even kick a professional football (at the time of the story) can go and spend 2m+ on a property for their parents.

What's the chance of Tosin Adarabioyo going to his local bank, asking for the terms of a mortgage in proportion to his salary?

Do people actually think people go out and spend £2,500,000 in a single transaction?

Who are we to judge, stop following the words of the media and start to think for yourselves.