Fleck v Basham

[Kabba Kabba Doo]

I see Fleck as more of a "defensive midfielder" than Basham, Fleck can win the ball better than Bash and Bash is more box to box, unfortunately he's just useless when he gets in their box!

 

[1danewhitehouse]

this thread is actually getting interesting now.

It's pointing to:

1) do we want a defensive midfielder
2) do we want a more attacking midfielder.

Question to people - who played the really quality ball for Done's goal and what ultimately was United's winner?
It looked like Fleck from the sky footage - if it was, then there is the answer?

Do we want to be more exciting?

I really like a Basham - have been a fan since he joined, but Is the choice becoming a no brainer or is Basham 2nd on the team sheet as CW said he was a "senior" player?

UTB

If Basham is injured, it will be a case of see how we go with Fleck in his position Saturday. If we’re too open and they cut through us, we have an argument for Basham to come back in when fit. If we dominate midfield and create and score goals, then Fleck is likely to stay. Good to have competition though and I hope it keeps the likes of Coutts on his toes as we know he is prone to slacking off.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Bashams an ok player but I dont think he puts in as many tackles as some people think, I reckon his main attributes is his fitness and ability to cover ground and work rate, not knocking him but if he is out it will be interesting to see how we go on with fleck in there with coutts and Duffy, a midfield I llike the look of, good footballers, out playing tge opposition, however, I remember a few years ago when we were wanting monty out because he wasnt good enough, and how many times when he was out did we miss him. If bash is out for two or three games it will be interesting to see where we are when he is ready to come back.

Agree on the point re Monty. I think we might realise we miss Bash more than we thought when he’s not there. Dare I say it, I think he does quite a bit of “unseen” work. Ideally, he would be available for Scunny away as I think that’s a really tough game. When we’re at home against lesser opposition, I’d like to see Fleck in there to have the extra creativity.


I think the contribution of Basham and Done are underrated by some fans due to their lack of composure on the ball at times. They are two players that are ideal for the high tempo pressing game Wilder wants. It’s not all about Basham making the tackle. It’s about the harrying and pressing and competing for 50/50s etc. The current set up with him and Done chasing anything that moves means a lot of loose balls fall to the likes of Coutts and Duffy to get us going on the attack again. I didn’t see the Wimbledon game but this was particularly evident against Gillingham. Sharp also contributes well in a similar way but not quite to the same extent. There was some talk of gegenpressing last season and Bash/Done are integral to us doing that. Ideally, we would have a player who has that tenacity and energy combined with some quality on the ball or even better, 2 of them like we did with McCall and Brown back in the day.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

All midfield players should be capable of tackling.
The myth that we need height in midfield is just that. It's not height that is key, its strength.

Fleck may be short, but he is very strong and more than capable of putting a tackle in.

I think Coutts and Fleck will work well

You don’t necessarily need height in midfield but you do need some aerial ability throughout the team. We are playing with 2 little uns up front. Losing Basham might mean we don’t have enough headers of the ball in the team for set pieces as despite being tall Coutts is crap in the air.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

A good way to incorporate them both in the team would be to play a diamond in midfield. Starting lineup like this:

Moore

Freeman -------Ebanks-Landell -------O'Connell ------ Lafferty

------------------------------ Basham----------------------------------

-------------------- Coutts -------------- Fleck-----------------------

------------------------------- Duffy -----------------------------------

------------------- Sharp ------------- Done/Lavery

Appreciate we would be relying on the full backs for width but with duffy and done/lavery ocassionaly drifting wide it would give options for fleck and coutts whilst Basham is taking care of defensive midfield.

Problem is, for all his limitations, I think we maybe need Wright as the organiser at the back. And if we play him, I think we maybe need 3 centre halves to cover for his lack of pace. A bit like Clough’s first season with Doyle in midfield. He was no longer mobile enough to play in a 442 but we needed him to hold it all together and give the license to others to carry the ball forward so we accommodated him by playing Coady and Scougall alongside him.


I think 2 CBs flanked by Freeman and Lafferty as you suggest would leave us extremely vulnerable defensively.

 

[Antonb]

From what I have seen of fleck playing so far, he is vastly overrated on this board. I hope he plays better when he gets back in the team. Basham has been overall more effective. And scougall has too.

 

[joshua thompson]

I'm really looking for thoughts on this rather than giving a point of view.
Many have said we were better once Fleck came on. However we won the first half, drew the second so the stats may say otherwise.
My preference would probably be Fleck, but don't ask me why.

Okay I know many may not agree with what I am about to say, but I think Basham is key this year, he gives 110% every game, and for me he is our defensive midfielder. Yes he is not the best on the ball or can pick out an pass but he does defend well and actually gets stuck in, but he is a much better CB than midfielder for sure.

I think with Fleck, he is clearly a very good player, I hope he pushes into the team soon, Coventry's best player of season last year and after seeing him at Bramall Lane it is clear he can pick out a pass and is great on the ball, his problem is his height and strength, but he is probably our best ball playing midfielder. Personally I hope he plays more and pushes through, however I think Coutts is performing well lately so may have to wait.

UTB

 

[Grizzly blade]

You don’t necessarily need height in midfield but you do need some aerial ability throughout the team. We are playing with 2 little uns up front. Losing Basham might mean we don’t have enough headers of the ball in the team for set pieces as despite being tall Coutts is crap in the air.

And normally I would agree.
However, we are playing 3 centre backs, so technically that should make up for a lack of height taking out Basham. Heading is their bread and butter.
So although Coutts isn't a fan of heading it, going a spare man in our box when defending is a job he's more than capable of if you have 3 centre halves to do most of that work.
Plus, when we play Clarke he can head it.

 

[Boxer Blade]

A good way to incorporate them both in the team would be to play a diamond in midfield. Starting lineup like this:

Moore

Freeman -------Ebanks-Landell -------O'Connell ------ Lafferty

------------------------------ Basham----------------------------------

-------------------- Coutts -------------- Fleck-----------------------

------------------------------- Duffy -----------------------------------

------------------- Sharp ------------- Done/Lavery

Appreciate we would be relying on the full backs for width but with duffy and done/lavery ocassionaly drifting wide it would give options for fleck and coutts whilst Basham is taking care of defensive midfield.

Okay I know many may not agree with what I am about to say, but I think Basham is key this year, he gives 110% every game, and for me he is our defensive midfielder. Yes he is not the best on the ball or can pick out an pass but he does defend well and actually gets stuck in, but he is a much better CB than midfielder for sure.

I think with Fleck, he is clearly a very good player, I hope he pushes into the team soon, Coventry's best player of season last year and after seeing him at Bramall Lane it is clear he can pick out a pass and is great on the ball, his problem is his height and strength, but he is probably our best ball playing midfielder. Personally I hope he plays more and pushes through, however I think Coutts is performing well lately so may have to wait.

UTB

George Osborne got hammered for saying 110%, but I agree with your point.

 

[coolhandluke]

This appears to be a no brainer really .

The last 3 games have seen us win 3 and score 7 . The midfield has consisted of Basham , Coutts and Duffy . Why change it when it's quite clearly not broken ?

Even if we over react to the goals against column during these 3 games what are we saying ? That Basham needs to be replaced by Fleck because he's a better defensive midfielder ? Really ????

Don't forget .... its the defences job to stop conceding . We have had a different defensive lineup in the last 3 games . Maybe this has more to do with us conceding 4 in the last 3 games than our very own sacrificial lamb ..... Basham ?

Whilst the debate in this thread has been very good there's also clear evidence that some of the posters on here aren't prepared to give Basham the time of day even when he's been clearly positively instrumental in games .

Thank the good fucking lord above * CW doesn't appear to pick sides based upon pet likes and dislikes . He picks players on merit and merit alone . If Basham was playing shit he'd be out ..... simple .

* ( no offence meant booker4 )

 

[Antonb]

Just watched Second half of Wimbledon game and despite the one pass to done for the goal he was average . And didn't notice him most of the half. He hasn't done enough to force himself into the team yet. Coutts and basham were more effective.

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

Flasham

 

[Booker4]

This appears to be a no brainer really .

The last 3 games have seen us win 3 and score 7 . The midfield has consisted of Basham , Coutts and Duffy . Why change it when it's quite clearly not broken ?

Even if we over react to the goals against column during these 3 games what are we saying ? That Basham needs to be replaced by Fleck because he's a better defensive midfielder ? Really ????

Don't forget .... its the defences job to stop conceding . We have had a different defensive lineup in the last 3 games . Maybe this has more to do with us conceding 4 in the last 3 games than our very own sacrificial lamb ..... Basham ?

Whilst the debate in this thread has been very good there's also clear evidence that some of the posters on here aren't prepared to give Basham the time of day even when he's been clearly positively instrumental in games .

Thank the good fucking lord above * CW doesn't appear to pick sides based upon pet likes and dislikes . He picks players on merit and merit alone . If Basham was playing shit he'd be out ..... simple .

* ( no offence meant booker4 )

One of the many things I like about Wilder is that players play on merit. I thought Adkins was going to be great at man management but he seemed only to praise Hammond and Sharp from my memory. Wilder's been very complimentary of players he inherited - that have performed: namely Coutts and Freeman.

* Ha ha lol mate. UTB