Fleck v Basham

[Bladesthorpe]

Were not going to agree on this so it's pointless carrying on with the debate. Just can't believe you think Bash offers nothing in the physicality department, we must be watching a different player.

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

You can't have Coutts and Fleck as the main two in centre mid, especially in t' pub league. I'm not a fan of Basham but I'd have him and Whiteman as the two in centre mid, then perm 2 from 4 of Coutts, Duffy, Fleck and Scougal for the wide positions. That's assuming Wilder stops faffing about with this deeper lying role for Sharp and goes for a definite 4-4-2, with Clarke as leader of the line (currently a waste of the best striker at the club being stuck on the bench).

Leon Clarke is better than billy sharp?

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

"faffing about" = the team winning every league game Clark hasn't started and none of the games he did start.

Well that's bloody obvious, all Clarke's good work was going to waste as his strike partner was faffing about 10-20 yards too deep. Two out of his four starts he was motm by a country mile (as per Handsworth Blades SC and in the shake up for one of the other games).

 

[PokerBlade]

I said in the closed season that the only reason I'd hold on to Basham was a matter of priority. Of all the players we needed out and replacing from last year, Basham was the least bad. We've had to make huge changes to the squad, completely overhauling the defence (with only Freeman having been in the squad last year), desperately needing a new keeper, having to add a wide player, a big striker, a replacement for Baxter. Through all that Basham was the one you could look at and say "He'll do for now".

But now we're at the point where we have almost completely reworked the side, and the new mix is looking like it's coming together well, Basham's becoming that priority. There's still question marks over the defence, and another central defender might have to be looked at, and someone who can play wide left might be needed unless we stick to this 3-5-2, but come January he's near the top of the list to be improved upon now.

 

[Revolution]

Well that's bloody obvious, all Clarke's good work was going to waste as his strike partner was faffing about 10-20 yards too deep. Two out of his four starts he was motm by a country mile (as per Handsworth Blades SC and in the shake up for one of the other games).

Well, Sharp's good work is not going to waste with Done replacing Clarke.

I wonder how many Sharp will have to score before people stop demanding his replacement? Mind you, Beattie got 22 - with the next highest scorer bagging 4 - and you wanted him out of the team didn't you?

 

[wizadry]

We'll soon find out, Basham is going to be missing for a few games with a thigh strain. I prefer Fleck as a footballer but we have to pick each game on merit, form, fitness and the opposition.

 

[Ricky]

We'll soon find out, Basham is going to be missing for a few games with a thigh strain. I prefer Fleck as a footballer but we have to pick each game on merit, form, fitness and the opposition.

Who's said that? I bloody hope not, the next two games will be very bad ones for him to miss.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Who's said that? I bloody hope not, the next two games will be very bad ones for him to miss.

A news reader on the radio.

 

[Jesus_was_a_Blade]

Crazy idea... pick the players that are in-form, whoever they might be.

I wouldn't complain about any combination of Fleck/Duffy/Coutts/Basham. Obviously winning goes a long way towards this.

For me Fleck is our best midfielder, looks to be one of the most creative players we have, but also puts a shift in. And for a smaller guy he's not afraid to get stuck in.

That being said, if Basham is fit Saturday you'd struggle to make a case for changing a team that has won 3 on the bounce.

UTB

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Question for any academy watchers - how far away is whiteman??

I've like the bits have seen from him. Looks to be mobile, decent on the ball and could play the basham roll (we don't have many alternatives)

If his goal against Wednesday is anything to go by could provide something at the other end of the pitch too.

Fleck coutts and basham looks like a decent three to me - give fleck the freedom to play further up.

 

[wizadry]

Who's said that? I bloody hope not, the next two games will be very bad ones for him to miss.

It might not be a bad thing Ricky, the reason being we will have everyone high on confidence and the person who comes in (probably Fleck) will have to prove his worth whilst Basham gets back fit to stay in the team and I have every confidence Fleck can step up to the plate.

 

[Ricky]

It might not be a bad thing Ricky, the reason being we will have everyone high on confidence and the person who comes in (probably Fleck) will have to prove his worth whilst Basham gets back fit to stay in the team and I have every confidence Fleck can step up to the plate.

I'm confident in Fleck too and the hunger will be there to keep himself in the team but he's a different type of player to Basham. Peterborough and Scunthorpe have goals in them, we could do with Basham to help close them down and break things up. Take him out of that midfield and we don't have much mobility or physicality.

If it's to be Coutts, Fleck and Duffy in midfield for those two games though they should be entertaining games, we'll play to win and those three all have proper quality.

 

[wizadry]

I'm confident in Fleck too and the hunger will be there to keep himself in the team but he's a different type of player to Basham. Peterborough and Scunthorpe have goals in them, we could do with Basham to help close them down and break things up. Take him out of that midfield and we don't have much mobility or physicality.

If it's to be Coutts, Fleck and Duffy in midfield for those two games though they should be entertaining games, we'll play to win and those three all have proper quality.

Good post but i think Fleck has more mobility and physicality than people give him credit for.

 

[Ricky]

Good post but i think Fleck has more mobility and physicality than people give him credit for.

I agree, he's certainly not nesh, or slow or weak. But Fleck's primarily a ball player, Basham's primarily defensive minded, as well as having the extra height and mobility.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

this thread is actually getting interesting now.

It's pointing to:

1) do we want a defensive midfielder
2) do we want a more attacking midfielder.

Question to people - who played the really quality ball for Done's goal and what ultimately was United's winner?
It looked like Fleck from the sky footage - if it was, then there is the answer?

Do we want to be more exciting?

I really like a Basham - have been a fan since he joined, but Is the choice becoming a no brainer or is Basham 2nd on the team sheet as CW said he was a "senior" player?

UTB

 

[Ricky]

We still need to play with a more defensive midfielder in there, we're conceding too many goals and the defence could do with the protection. If we're playing without wingers and with three or possibly four central midfielders then one of them has to be more defensive minded, there's more than enough room in there for the more attacking minded.

Basham has to start for now, but I'd still like us to sign a reliable, solid defensive midfielder. We've got enough to keep possession and create openings with Fleck, Coutts and Duffy for starters. Basham does a decent enough job most of the time but I'd like someone more convincing, more natural in the position with more ability on the ball.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Bashams an ok player but I dont think he puts in as many tackles as some people think, I reckon his main attributes is his fitness and ability to cover ground and work rate, not knocking him but if he is out it will be interesting to see how we go on with fleck in there with coutts and Duffy, a midfield I llike the look of, good footballers, out playing tge opposition, however, I remember a few years ago when we were wanting monty out because he wasnt good enough, and how many times when he was out did we miss him. If bash is out for two or three games it will be interesting to see where we are when he is ready to come back.

 

[McGrath]

We need Basham to win the ball for the likes of Fleck to find the passes.

Midfield play is as much as winning the ball as it is about playing the ball. A lot of our problems over recent seasons have been because we've been a walkover in midfield.

 

[Boxer Blade]

We need Basham to win the ball for the likes of Fleck to find the passes.

Midfield play is as much as winning the ball as it is about playing the ball. A lot of our problems over recent seasons have been because we've been a walkover in midfield.

Understand, but I dont think bash is a particularly good ball winner, ideas ok in principle but I thinh fleck can tackle just as good as bash, difference is as I said fleck will never run around the pitch as much as bash, which is a asset in itself.

 

[larkymasher]

Problem is Fleck and Coutts are too similar, but they are the 2 best midfielders we have. Also even though Basham can't jump, he does give us height in both boxes.

I think we have to give Fleck and Coutts a full game together.

 

[Grizzly blade]

All midfield players should be capable of tackling.
The myth that we need height in midfield is just that. It's not height that is key, its strength.

Fleck may be short, but he is very strong and more than capable of putting a tackle in.

I think Coutts and Fleck will work well

 

[ScottishBlade93]

A good way to incorporate them both in the team would be to play a diamond in midfield. Starting lineup like this:

Moore

Freeman -------Ebanks-Landell -------O'Connell ------ Lafferty

------------------------------ Basham----------------------------------

-------------------- Coutts -------------- Fleck-----------------------

------------------------------- Duffy -----------------------------------

------------------- Sharp ------------- Done/Lavery

Appreciate we would be relying on the full backs for width but with duffy and done/lavery ocassionaly drifting wide it would give options for fleck and coutts whilst Basham is taking care of defensive midfield.

 

[wizadry]

A good way to incorporate them both in the team would be to play a diamond in midfield. Starting lineup like this:

Moore

Freeman -------Ebanks-Landell -------O'Connell ------ Lafferty

------------------------------ Basham----------------------------------

-------------------- Coutts -------------- Fleck-----------------------

------------------------------- Duffy -----------------------------------

------------------- Sharp ------------- Done/Lavery

Appreciate we would be relying on the full backs for width but with duffy and done/lavery ocassionaly drifting wide it would give options for fleck and coutts whilst Basham is taking care of defensive midfield.

Only thing is with that formation mate is we look unbelievably strong going down the right but fucking woefully short down the left.

 

[Grizzly blade]

At the moment, I can't see us switching back to four at the back. We have won three on the bounce so until something changes we will stick with what is working.

Wing back suits Freeman...not so much Lafferty.
So A switch won't be a huge problem back there, but it would mean leaving out one of Wright, O Connell or LANDELL.
Wright may be crucial for his vocal addition however, and adding that bit of nouse.

So I just don't see any change to formation for the time being, even though we have the squad to do it. So it's three spots available in middle of midfield. Coutts is cementing one, Duffy seems to be falling into a free role, and that leaves one place left for Bash and Fleck to fight for. It may be that injuries are the only time changes will be made. Bash may be out for a couple and then struggle to get his place back, waiting for someone else to drop out.
Personally I like that. Players know where they stand.

 

[Bladesman]

Who is better Fleck or Basham?

 

[Slim Man]

I'm very excited to see a Basham-less midfield. For every time Basham wins the ball he gives it away twice so it's irrelevant. We won't lose the ball as much with Coutts & Fleck so the need for a ball winner is lessened.

Fleck can get about the pitch and put a tackle in and in fairness to him Coutts has been getting stuck in of late. People talk of height yet Basham can't hear a ball so that's irrelevant and we have 3 centre halves anyway so there's your height in both boxes.

We won't miss Basham at all. I'll say it now.

 

[Ricky]

Having watched the Wimbledon game on Bladesplayer I wouldn't say we had any more control of midfield or the game in general in the second half with Fleck than we had in the first with Basham. Fleck did play a couple of key passes though and we did have more counter attacking opportunities.

 

[Chali 2na]

Clarke as leader of the line (currently a waste of the best striker at the club being stuck on the bench).

In what way is Clarke better than Sharp?

Sharp has more goals this season, more last season and a better ratio in this division and the divison above.

Freeman Duffy Coutts Fleck Lavary

Looks like an impressive league 1 midfield to me. Pace, passing and goals all in there. Think this should be first choice for home games. Perhaps use Basham more for the tricky away fixtures.

Didn't know Lavery could play LWB?

 

[Yewsman]

I'm confident in Fleck too and the hunger will be there to keep himself in the team but he's a different type of player to Basham. Peterborough and Scunthorpe have goals in them, we could do with Basham to help close them down and break things up. Take him out of that midfield and we don't have much mobility or physicality.

If it's to be Coutts, Fleck and Duffy in midfield for those two games though they should be entertaining games, we'll play to win and those three all have proper quality.

The other thing to remember is that CW wants to play the pressing game so all the players are tasked with closing down, tackling the opposition particularly in midfield. This seems to be working as we are now winning the ball back in midfield far more than last season from what I have seen. I am sure as the players get more used to Wilder's system we will get even better at this. This means the need for a "defensive" midfielder is lessened and CW himself has said he does not think of midfielders as defensive or attacking. They are simply midfielders who should be able to do everything. Having said that of course some players are better at closing down, tackling, mobile etc than others and Bash certainly comes into that category for me and he does add height. Will be interesting to see what happens if we have to play without him. Only then will we truly know if we miss him!

 

[itsinyerblood]

The other thing to remember is that CW wants to play the pressing game so all the players are tasked with closing down, tackling the opposition particularly in midfield. This seems to be working as we are now winning the ball back in midfield far more than last season from what I have seen. I am sure as the players get more used to Wilder's system we will get even better at this. This means the need for a "defensive" midfielder is lessened and CW himself has said he does not think of midfielders as defensive or attacking. They are simply midfielders who should be able to do everything. Having said that of course some players are better at closing down, tackling, mobile etc than others and Bash certainly comes into that category for me and he does add height. Will be interesting to see what happens if we have to play without him. Only then will we truly know if we miss him!

All good points raised Yewsman. I think Basham fills a role all the while he seems to provide many of the qualities you describe. Jack of most trades, master of none is how I'd categorise Bash, a willing trier who cannot be faulted, but when a quality defensive-midfield tackler becomes available, someone we'll all recognise as more than capable of providing the skills we need, then I suspect Basham will be surplus to requirements.