Fascinating Personality Analysis of Wilder

[knowsnowt]

Bell4 Why have you scrolled through my posts to put a laughing emoji under a post from January last year.?

My guess is, he thinks you're a knob.

 

[Bladesthorpe]

So I take it none of you critics saw him down 10 pints ? Thought not.

 

[mattbianco1]

Bell4 Why have you scrolled through my posts to put a laughing emoji under a post from January last year.?

The thread got bumped yesterday

 

[Silky Sabella]

So not being a disciplle of wonder manager Selles, not only qualifies me as a 'bedwetter', it now apparently means I'm bitter.

Who needs to pay for pschoanalysis, when you can come on here and the experts point out all your personality flaws for free.

Do like your reply coco

 

[Ace of Blades]

Might not have liked him downing 12pints, standing on tables and chanting songs about an opposition manager, either

Exactly.

 

[Ace of Blades]

How do you know he downed 10 pints ? were you there. As for your other 2 points what self respecting blade would'nt do that after doing the double over the pigs.
Did you make as much fuss when the pigs were singing about his daughter ?

Yes but they weren't in a professional position within the club. Morons will be morons but the board would not expect that kind of behaviour from their manager.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Might not have liked him downing 12pints, standing on tables and chanting songs about an opposition manager, either

This just makes me miss him more.

 

[Carlton Blade]

XG (Expected Goals) or summet says it should be lower, but thankfully the actual G (Goals) were what they were.

Actual goals said it was the only season in England this century where a team got 2 points a game from so few goals. Lowest scorers and worst goal difference to ever get 90+ Championship points. Huge numbers of fans went to the games and found the football hard to watch, weren't excited by the season at all.

But sure, nothing about it was in any way fortunate and it's just geeks and dweeb with spreadsheets who don't get it

It was an outlier season, it happens.

 

[Addison]

Might not have liked him downing 12pints, standing on tables and chanting songs about an opposition manager, either

Exactly this for half the Board. Plymouth away was the final straw.

 

[nopigfansintown]

United took the lead in games, shut the game down by controlling it and ran out comfortable in most matches. That was often mistaken for the opposite: a lack of goals and at times goal threat was seen as us struggling or 'labouring' to wins. In truth we snuffed out the opposition and games petered out. I'm not sure XG will tell you that. Interpreting the games individually and understanding them would. I've never been more comfortable during as many one goal wins in my life. We had bigger issues when we conceded first although that was admittedly mercilessly rare. XG also won't tell you the list of extenuating circumstances we had to navigate e.g. the small, knackered squad post October/pre Jan arrivals or the Arblaster and Souttar injuries. All key factors. When you add a summer that makes this one look easy to navigate it was pretty impressive to say the least. The contrast with the lack of control in games (basketball games) we've endured this season couldn't be starker. Good teams control the majority of games.

I love the singing in the pub lark. Anything that breaks down barriers between fans and players/management is great providing it's legal. We need more of it, not less. These days the kids wanting an autograph are treat like they're wanting tea with the King.It's hilarious to me how some people cried and wailed about Wilder going out for a few with his Sunday lunch, or for a party when he decompressed after the high pressure derby games he succeeded in. Jealous sad acts. Of course the pigs absolutely hated it which turned it from a nice picture into an everlasting masterpiece.

 

[Working Class Hero]

United took the lead in games, shut the game down by controlling it and ran out comfortable in most matches. That was often mistaken for the opposite: a lack of goals and at times goal threat was seen as us struggling or 'labouring' to wins. In truth we snuffed out the opposition and games petered out. I'm not sure XG will tell you that. Interpreting the games individually and understanding them would. I've never been more comfortable during as many one goal wins in my life. We had bigger issues when we conceded first although that was admittedly mercilessly rare. XG also won't tell you the list of extenuating circumstances we had to navigate e.g. the small, knackered squad post October/pre Jan arrivals or the Arblaster and Souttar injuries. All key factors. When you add a summer that makes this one look easy to navigate it was pretty impressive to say the least. The contrast with the lack of control in games (basketball games) we've endured this season couldn't be starker. Good teams control the majority of games.

I love the singing in the pub lark. Anything that breaks down barriers between fans and players/management is great providing it's legal. We need more of it, not less. These days the kids wanting an autograph are treat like they're wanting tea with the King.It's hilarious to me how some people cried and wailed about Wilder going out for a few with his Sunday lunch, or for a party when he decompressed after the high pressure derby games he succeeded in. Jealous sad acts. Of course the pigs absolutely hated it which turned it from a nice picture into an everlasting masterpiece.

I could have written that myself, you see things exactly the way I do.

Winning and having a manager with personality ticks two massive boxes for me!

 

[Rodley]

Actual goals said it was the only season in England this century where a team got 2 points a game from so few goals. Lowest scorers and worst goal difference to ever get 90+ Championship points. Huge numbers of fans went to the games and found the football hard to watch, weren't excited by the season at all.

But sure, nothing about it was in any way fortunate and it's just geeks and dweeb with spreadsheets who don't get it

It was an outlier season, it happens.

Great defence, clinical strikeforce. Great coaching, man management and motivating?

 

[Carlton Blade]

Great defence, clinical strikeforce. Great coaching, man management and motivating?

Ok defence post Souttar, excellent with him. Not sure what struggling to score goals leads to you thinking great coaching? A clinical strike force would likely have scored more goals? With the last part, I assume you're saying that the players quality wasn't that great and the team outperformed it's talent level?

There's over 45k team seasons on FBRef/Stathead and less than 1.4 goals per game/2 or more points a game happened 57 times globally. The majority in weird leagues like Greece, Venezuela, Iran. Only United in England.

United were a good team, 3rd best in the division. The points total was the anomoly, that's all.

 

[Rodley]

Ok defence post Souttar, excellent with him. Not sure what struggling to score goals leads to you thinking great coaching? A clinical strike force would likely have scored more goals? With the last part, I assume you're saying that the players quality wasn't that great and the team outperformed it's talent level?

There's over 45k team seasons on FBRef/Stathead and less than 1.4 goals per game/2 or more points a game happened 57 times globally. The majority in weird leagues like Greece, Venezuela, Iran. Only United in England.

United were a good team, 3rd best in the division. The points total was the anomoly, that's all.

But if our G is higher than XG, presumably that means we’re scoring more goals than ought to have? If so, I don’t think you can attribute that over a season to chance.

 

[Carlton Blade]

But if our G is higher than XG, presumably that means we’re scoring more goals than ought to have? If so, I don’t think you can attribute that over a season to chance.

You took the piss out of xG about 3 posts ago and I never even mentioned it here But I've just had a quick look and United were almost exactly at their xG for, conceded 36 with an xG against of 46.

There have been 576 Championship teams since it because the Championship in 01/02. The 63 goals United scored ranks them 184th. 36 conceded = 16th. +27 GD = 63rd. Using those numbers to rank every Championship team, United 24/25 come out 60th, but they have the 22nd best points total. The 60th best points total is 82. That seems more in line with what United were last season.

 

[Rodley]

You took the piss out of xG about 3 posts ago and I never even mentioned it here But I've just had a quick look and United were almost exactly at their xG for, conceded 36 with an xG against of 46.

There have been 576 Championship teams since it because the Championship in 01/02. The 63 goals United scored ranks them 184th. 36 conceded = 16th. +27 GD = 63rd. Using those numbers to rank every Championship team, United 24/25 come out 60th, but they have the 22nd best points total. The 60th best points total is 82. That seems more in line with what United were last season.

I’ll be honest my reading of anything on here is cursory at best.

I think the point above begs the question - why? If we were scoring fewer than usual and conceding more, why did we continue to win? We’d been crafted into a winning machine. That to me again comes down to coaching rather than luck or chance.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I’ll be honest my reading of anything on here is cursory at best.

I think the point above begs the question - why? If we were scoring fewer than usual and conceding more, why did we continue to win? We’d been crafted into a winning machine. That to me again comes down to coaching rather than luck or chance.

Then why didn't the coaching work v Leeds, Burnley or Sunderland? Or in the 3 game losing streak? Teams that win leagues tend to win games comfortably. United relied on a formula of winning close games. You only need a tiny change in luck to start drawing/losing those games.

All 3 United promotion teams scored at least 73 and had a goal difference of +30. But 24/25 won the most points

 

[Rodley]

Then why didn't the coaching work v Leeds, Burnley or Sunderland? Or in the 3 game losing streak? Teams that win leagues tend to win games comfortably. United relied on a formula of winning close games. You only need a tiny change in luck to start drawing/losing those games.

All 3 United promotion teams scored at least 73 and had a goal difference of +30. But 24/25 won the most points

I think Leeds and Burnley were just beyond us in terms of ability. Sunderland was a one off.

For me you have to acknowledge that the formula of winning close games wasn’t by chance but an output of the excellent management and coaching of the team. That we fell short of Leeds and Burnley is no shame.

I think we can all afford to be a bit more sanguine about how good the coaching was under CW when we see how bad it has become in a short few months.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I think Leeds and Burnley were just beyond us in terms of ability. Sunderland was a one off.

For me you have to acknowledge that the formula of winning close games wasn’t by chance but an output of the excellent management and coaching of the team. That we fell short of Leeds and Burnley is no shame.

I think we can all afford to be a bit more sanguine about how good the coaching was under CW when we see how bad it has become in a short few months.

I think Wilder did a good job and the team finished up in the position it should have. I think it was a very good job keeping the group together but left a lot of meat on the bone attacking wise. In other words, fantastic management, ok coaching

My only point is "92 points" being said over and over doesn't take into account a large element of fortune. "3rd, after having to bring in a lot of players" and I'm fully on board

 

[I should coco]

My only point is "92 points" being said over and over doesn't take into account a large element of fortune. "3rd, after having to bring in a lot of players" and I'm fully on board

I understand what you are saying and I like your detailed analyis.

A few posts back you acknowledged it was an outlier season, but this doesn't alter the fact thta we did get 92 points. I get why you don't want to over emphasise that and what it suggests, but it is still true.

As you say, there was an element of good fortune, and I would suggest the conerse for this season (albeit with a very small sample size). Poor set up, in game coaching and subsitutions mean we sit very deservedly on zero points. Those suggesting we were 'unlucky', miss the point, that you can be 'lucky' or 'unlucky' for 46 games.

 

[mattbianco1]

Then why didn't the coaching work v Leeds, Burnley or Sunderland? Or in the 3 game losing streak? Teams that win leagues tend to win games comfortably. United relied on a formula of winning close games. You only need a tiny change in luck to start drawing/losing those games.

All 3 United promotion teams scored at least 73 and had a goal difference of +30. But 24/25 won the most points

If you win 1-0 or 5-0, you still get 3 points.

"One nil, to the Arsenal!!"

 

[Carlton Blade]

I understand what you are saying and I like your detailed analyis.

A few posts back you acknowledged it was an outlier season, but this doesn't alter the fact thta we did get 92 points. I get why you don't want to over emphasise that and what it suggests, but it is still true.

As you say, there was an element of good fortune, and I would suggest the conerse for this season (albeit with a very small sample size). Poor set up, in game coaching and subsitutions mean we sit very deservedly on zero points. Those suggesting we were 'unlucky', miss the point, that you can be 'lucky' or 'unlucky' for 46 games.

Every game is it's own discrete event. Winning 28 games from that goals for/against record is an extremely rare circumstance which means it's worthy of trying to figure out why that happened and if it's sustainable. 92 points were achieved, but even during the season, results fell more back to expectation levels in the 2nd 23 games (51 points v 41 points).

There's another United team with an almost identical 'profile'

United 24/25 - GF 64 GA 39 PTS 80
United 08/09 - GF 63 GA 36 PTS 92

24/25 were obviously more efficient with how they scored and conceded their goals. But the question is, can that be controlled or is there an element of 'luck'. I'd say it's a bit of both

 

[Carlton Blade]

If you win 1-0 or 5-0, you still get 3 points.

"One nil, to the Arsenal!!"

In any 1 game, 1 goal wins are great. But if you had to defend a 1 goal lead for 30 minutes, 46 times or a 2 goallead for 30 minutes, 46 times I would say that your expected points return would be much higher from the 2 goal lead because you've added margin for error/luck to your probability.

The counter argument is that you're more likely to concede a goal while trying to get a 2nd. My view is, even the best defenses in the world concede goals, not everything can be controlled.

 

[billyblademan]

In any 1 game, 1 goal wins are great. But if you had to defend a 1 goal lead for 30 minutes, 46 times or a 2 goallead for 30 minutes, 46 times I would say that your expected points return would be much higher from the 2 goal lead because you've added margin for error/luck to your pro ability.

The counter argument is that you're more likely to concede a goal while trying to get a 2nd. My view is, even the best defenses in the world concede goals, not everything g can be controlled.

Case in point QPR away. They got a penalty out of nowhere (Buzzer with his weird handball thing he did a couple of games in a row), but luckily Campbell had scored his rocket so we had a cushion.

 

[Tony Currie]

People (including the board) underestimate the position and 92 points achieved. It's now coming back to bite them.

1) It was a major rebuild during the summer - losing many of the premier league players.
2) Injuries to key players (Souttar, Arblaster) became a major obstacle to overcome, resulting in a more defensive style.
3) Wilder himself said we were still in the rebuild stage half way through the season.
4) Extremely unlucky in the final (VAR being used - badly)
5) Leeds were a good example of giving the manager another season to complete the job.