Emotions like that.....depths of despair, to YEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Marty_Mcfly said:
All these folks saying they dont celebrate now, I've not seen one person not celebrate a goal regardless of VAR. I certainly still celebrate until VAR signals.

Controversial but I dont mind VAR, it's the way offside is judged that gets me. If they only gave clear and obvious offside I'd be fine with it.
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When I say I don’t celebrate, I obviously jump up and cheer, it’s a reflex action. Then I just stop and think “what was wrong with that one then”.
 

VAR settling down nicely at last ( as it always would!).

Rice handball could not be seen by ref or linesman. Step in VAR, brilliant. Great decision awful rule!! Needs changing.

Less and less controversy each week. Emotion yes,but Moyes and Rice were talking nonsense. Correct decision, bad rule.

Mourinho diverting and talking rubbish too. Correct decision, goal.
 
Marty_Mcfly said:
Fuck the lines off and if you cant see it with a camera angle level with play it's not off.
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I'd like daylight between the players , there has to be daylight between the ball and the goal line for it to count as the ball crossing the line so why not the same with defender and attacker
 
O
Marty_Mcfly said:
All these folks saying they dont celebrate now, I've not seen one person not celebrate a goal regardless of VAR. I certainly still celebrate until VAR signals.

Controversial but I dont mind VAR, it's the way offside is judged that gets me. If they only gave clear and obvious offside I'd be fine with it.
Click to expand...

Offside rule will be adjusted, nothing so certain. Again its the poor rule, not VAR itself.
 
Marty_Mcfly said:
All these folks saying they dont celebrate now, I've not seen one person not celebrate a goal regardless of VAR. I certainly still celebrate until VAR signals.

Controversial but I dont mind VAR, it's the way offside is judged that gets me. If they only gave clear and obvious offside I'd be fine with it.
Click to expand...
My feelings exactly. Get more decisions right than before, but if you need to use MS Paint to give offside then not offside for me.
 
I don’t remember ever laughing so much in a football ground as I did on Friday night after the VAR incident. It was so poetic, and so slapstick, on so many levels simultaneously. I was still laughing when I got home. Still laughing when I woke up next morning. And I’m smiling again now, typing this.

But fuck VAR, still, frankly. It remains an abomination, for all the many different reasons exhaustively rehearsed by hundreds of thousands of fans across the land in the last few months.

And the claim that it is “settling down” is utterly spurious. Just as it was utterly spurious when made after the New Year‘s games (Wesley’s heel, with his back to goal, anyone?).

Nothing whatsoever about VAR has changed since the most recent high profile omnishambles clusterfuck of the holiday period. The Stockley Park bureaucrats have been lucky this weekend, that’s all, in so far as no-one has had an armpit, nasal hair or boot cap rulable offside from 40 yards out. Not yet anyway. Two games still to go.

Ditto, the claim that fans only complain about VAR when it goes against their own team is equally misguided. One of the more memorable moments during the Man City game, after the front inch of Moose’s boot apparently gave him an advantage just the wrong side of the halfway line, was the blocks of home fans either side of us joining in with, and applauding, the “Fuck VAR” song.

VAR. Still a triumph of technocracy over art. Still a stain on the beautiful game.
 
ive said way before this. that take offsides out & VAR wouldnt be the intolerable issue it currently is because under this rule the only goal that should've been was man city jesus goal in august when from a corner it brushed a guy hand on the way through to jesus who scored that qas neither deliberate or gaining an advtange . Friday it was correct decision for me it comes under gaining an obvious advatange rather than handball & i wasnt surprised by equaliser because we had got lucky before our sloppiness in possession & expected it would bite us if he continued as premier league will punish these errors

but still even this morning taking about it you cant help but have a huge smile on the face & couldnt have happened to a better team. what a roar outside of a derby or cup game. i cant remember such a noise at the end of the match for long time. maybe Brentford or Crystal palace 1st home league wins of either season
 
ShockingBadBuy said:
I don’t remember ever laughing so much in a football ground as I did on Friday night after the VAR incident. It was so poetic, and so slapstick, on so many levels simultaneously. I was still laughing when I got home. Still laughing when I woke up next morning. And I’m smiling again now, typing this.

But fuck VAR, still, frankly. It remains an abomination, for all the many different reasons exhaustively rehearsed by hundreds of thousands of fans across the land in the last few months.

And the claim that it is “settling down” is utterly spurious. Just as it was utterly spurious when made after the New Year‘s games (Wesley’s heel, with his back to goal, anyone?).

Nothing whatsoever about VAR has changed since the most recent high profile omnishambles clusterfuck of the holiday period. The Stockley Park bureaucrats have been lucky this weekend, that’s all, in so far as no-one has had an armpit, nasal hair or boot cap rulable offside from 40 yards out. Not yet anyway. Two games still to go.

Ditto, the claim that fans only complain about VAR when it goes against their own team is equally misguided. One of the more memorable moments during the Man City game, after the front inch of Moose’s boot apparently gave him an advantage just the wrong side of the halfway line, was the blocks of home fans either side of us joining in with, and applauding, the “Fuck VAR” song.

VAR. Still a triumph of technocracy over art. Still a stain on the beautiful game.
Click to expand...

Agreed, still horseshit.
 
Marty_Mcfly said:
Fuck the lines off and if you cant see it with a camera angle level with play it's not off.
Click to expand...

The lines are there because there usually isn’t a camera angle level with play, so without lines the picture doesn’t tell you much. By removing the lines you’re basically make it very difficult for the person viewing the image to know whether it’s offside or not.

Of course, you can then say ‘if it’s difficult, go with the ref’s decision’ but in that case why have VAR at all? Basically you end up in a position where whether the decision is overturned or not depends on camera angle, and a person looking at an image which appears to show the officials got it wrong, trying to decide whether it was ‘clearly‘ wrong or just a little bit wrong. You’d be better off just allowing the officials on the field to take an instant decision, and accept it. That way you don’t get the delays and the uncertainty about every goal.

Trying to make VAR less accurate just leaves you with all its negative elements and none of its positive elements.

Simple solution - scrap VAR.
 
VAR no goal went completely mental shouting take that you cheating f****** C ****
 
I was ready to smash the fucking tv up when that prick Snodgrass scored and started cupping his ears.

When I saw it was checking V.A.R and then come up as goal disallowed I was absolutely buzzing jumping around the room the look on that smug prick Snodgrass's face was an absolute picture 🤣😂🤣😂

That was Karma at it's finest just to see them cockney wankers suffer 🤣🤣🤣🤣

That was up there with Duffy silencing the pigs 🤣🤣🤣
 
When the ball crosses the line I have a habit of looking straight to the linesman. And when I see the flag is down I know it's a goal. Or I did until this season. Now when the ball crosses the line I don't know if it's a goal, I don't know why it might not be a goal, and I still don't know if it's a good decision or not.

I don't see that as anything but a huge negative.
 

Anyone else switch off the telly after it went in? I did, watched the replay, didn't spot the handball, not offside. I thought there was nothing wrong with it, so I turned off the TV and went out. Only in the pub did I see it had been chalked off.
 
WorkingtonBlade said:
The lines are there because there usually isn’t a camera angle level with play, so without lines the picture doesn’t tell you much. By removing the lines you’re basically make it very difficult for the person viewing the image to know whether it’s offside or not.

Of course, you can then say ‘if it’s difficult, go with the ref’s decision’ but in that case why have VAR at all? Basically you end up in a position where whether the decision is overturned or not depends on camera angle, and a person looking at an image which appears to show the officials got it wrong, trying to decide whether it was ‘clearly‘ wrong or just a little bit wrong. You’d be better off just allowing the officials on the field to take an instant decision, and accept it. That way you don’t get the delays and the uncertainty about every goal.

Trying to make VAR less accurate just leaves you with all its negative elements and none of its positive elements.

Simple solution - scrap VAR.
Click to expand...

If the camera angle isn't there (and by that I mean slap bang in line and level) then you simply cannot gauge player positions correctly. And I won't have anyone tell me different. If i use a tape measure I have to look at it dead on to get an accurate measurement. Any kind of angle distorts the result. Same rule applies here.
 
WorkingtonBlade said:
The lines are there because there usually isn’t a camera angle level with play, so without lines the picture doesn’t tell you much. By removing the lines you’re basically make it very difficult for the person viewing the image to know whether it’s offside or not.

Of course, you can then say ‘if it’s difficult, go with the ref’s decision’ but in that case why have VAR at all? Basically you end up in a position where whether the decision is overturned or not depends on camera angle, and a person looking at an image which appears to show the officials got it wrong, trying to decide whether it was ‘clearly‘ wrong or just a little bit wrong. You’d be better off just allowing the officials on the field to take an instant decision, and accept it. That way you don’t get the delays and the uncertainty about every goal.

Trying to make VAR less accurate just leaves you with all its negative elements and none of its positive elements.

Simple solution - scrap VAR.
Click to expand...
Another solution would be to augment a grid onto the screen view of the pitch to give an idea of relative positions on the pitch, the lines are fixed and dont move with players, if isnt clear and obvious within a certain amount of time it isnt given.

The EPL/FA will get nowhere in trying Scrap VAR other than further alienating us from the rest of the FIFA and UEFA membership, other countries seem to be implementing it without any issues, it almost feels like the FA dont want it so they've made it unworkable in an attempt to lobby support from English fans.

For that reason I'm accepting it and think the FA and EPL need to come up with practical solutions to fix it.
 
ShockingBadBuy said:
I don’t remember ever laughing so much in a football ground as I did on Friday night after the VAR incident. It was so poetic, and so slapstick, on so many levels simultaneously. I was still laughing when I got home. Still laughing when I woke up next morning. And I’m smiling again now, typing this.

But fuck VAR, still, frankly. It remains an abomination, for all the many different reasons exhaustively rehearsed by hundreds of thousands of fans across the land in the last few months.

And the claim that it is “settling down” is utterly spurious. Just as it was utterly spurious when made after the New Year‘s games (Wesley’s heel, with his back to goal, anyone?).

Nothing whatsoever about VAR has changed since the most recent high profile omnishambles clusterfuck of the holiday period. The Stockley Park bureaucrats have been lucky this weekend, that’s all, in so far as no-one has had an armpit, nasal hair or boot cap rulable offside from 40 yards out. Not yet anyway. Two games still to go.

Ditto, the claim that fans only complain about VAR when it goes against their own team is equally misguided. One of the more memorable moments during the Man City game, after the front inch of Moose’s boot apparently gave him an advantage just the wrong side of the halfway line, was the blocks of home fans either side of us joining in with, and applauding, the “Fuck VAR” song.

VAR. Still a triumph of technocracy over art. Still a stain on the beautiful game.
Click to expand...


You're talking about the rules without realising it SBG.

VAR does not make the rules, but it will change the bad ones, one of which you rightly focus on.

The other one is that stupid ' unintentional handball' rule that poor old West Ham suffered.
 
I'm talking about VAR. Not rules.

1: "Level" is not offside in the rules, but VAR is not able to recognise "level" because no two body profiles are exactly the same. Therefore, VAR is not applying the rules, it is tacitly rewriting them.

2: As described in great detail, by people far more tech savvy than me, the technology is currently unable to identify such marginal offsides correctly.

There are none so deaf as those who are always right about everything. Apart, perhaps, from those who always know better what other people are actually talking about.
 
ShockingBadBuy said:
I'm talking about VAR. Not rules.

1: "Level" is not offside in the rules, but VAR is not able to recognise "level" because no two body profiles are exactly the same. Therefore, VAR is not applying the rules, it is tacitly rewriting them.

2: As described in great detail, by people far more tech savvy than me, the technology is currently unable to identify such marginal offsides correctly.

There are none so deaf as those who are always right about everything. Apart, perhaps, from those who always know better what other people are actually talking about.
Click to expand...


Ok Sbb.

In the year 2019 the very wealthy EPL installed technology that isn't up to the task at hand even though money was no object and they had a choice of when to introduce a new innovation to improve the game. How likely is that?

' Tech savy fans on here know better, how likely is that?

Even taking the unlikely potential for a minute discrepancy, my comfort is that it is so much bettter than a trailing linesman way behind play, trying to guess.

My other comfort is that it is the same for every club. I am 100% happy to take that comfort while others let it spoil their enjoyment, that's up to them in the year 2020 in the age when technological leaps are achieved almost daily.

Now to the rules. If there is any doublt whatsoever about the accuracy and also 'same for all' isnt good enough, then arbitrarily change the rule to include a 6 inch margin,, still better than scrapping the use of technology. Trouble is there would still be a line and a toe-nail.

The expedient could be removed when confidence in the technology is achieved - for internet forums, for fans on the terraces and players and some managers etc. They don't trust the fairness of the system and they do matter, of course they matter. The league has failed to communicate the system to create confidence.

The part of the body to be measured could be changed too I suppose, if it helps thousands of fans face up to the essential use of technology to build a system over a period to make the game less corrupt and unjust.

We all have a view which part of the body should be observed for offside. When all parts of the body are behind except an armpit (Pukki) are onside then its so ridiculous, but thats the rule being followed literally. Lacks common sense, yes it does.

Have a listen to the above SBB and see what you think. Bit off topic for the thread which covered all the fuss when the technology quite rightly helped decide the result in added time. Before VAR I hated such injustices and that would have been another despite having the league's best referee in charge. Bad rule but nevertheless - no goal!!
 
Woodwardfan said:
Ok Sbb.

In the year 2019 the very wealthy EPL installed technology that isn't up to the task at hand even though money was no object and they had a choice of when to introduce a new innovation to improve the game. How likely is that?

' Tech savy fans on here know better, how likely is that?

Even taking the unlikely potential for a minute discrepancy, my comfort is that it is so much bettter than a trailing linesman way behind play, trying to guess.

My other comfort is that it is the same for every club. I am 100% happy to take that comfort while others let it spoil their enjoyment, that's up to them in the year 2020 in the age when technological leaps are achieved almost daily.

Now to the rules. If there is any doublt whatsoever about the accuracy and also 'same for all' isnt good enough, then arbitrarily change the rule to include a 6 inch margin,, still better than scrapping the use of technology. Trouble is there would still be a line and a toe-nail.

The expedient could be removed when confidence in the technology is achieved - for internet forums, for fans on the terraces and players and some managers etc. They don't trust the fairness of the system and they do matter, of course they matter. The league has failed to communicate the system to create confidence.

The part of the body to be measured could be changed too I suppose, if it helps thousands of fans face up to the essential use of technology to build a system over a period to make the game less corrupt and unjust.

We all have a view which part of the body should be observed for offside. When all parts of the body are behind except an armpit (Pukki) are onside then its so ridiculous, but thats the rule being followed literally. Lacks common sense, yes it does.

Have a listen to the above SBB and see what you think. Bit off topic for the thread which covered all the fuss when the technology quite rightly helped decide the result in added time. Before VAR I hated such injustices and that would have been another despite having the league's best referee in charge. Bad rule but nevertheless - no goal!!
Click to expand...


Whose gone deaf ? ShockingBadBuy
 
Dkc said:
Anyone else switch off the telly after it went in? I did, watched the replay, didn't spot the handball, not offside. I thought there was nothing wrong with it, so I turned off the TV and went out. Only in the pub did I see it had been chalked off.
Click to expand...
Yes. I admit it. Kicked the chair several times and turned over. Then turned back again shortly after to check we hadn’t completely collapsed and lost all three points to find it had been disallowed.
 
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Ainsley Harriott said:
If the camera angle isn't there (and by that I mean slap bang in line and level) then you simply cannot gauge player positions correctly. And I won't have anyone tell me different. If i use a tape measure I have to look at it dead on to get an accurate measurement. Any kind of angle distorts the result. Same rule applies here.
Click to expand...
It’s called parallax.
 
Not sure I see the value of the VAR debate anymore, at least not with folk who simply refuse to listen to any voice other than their own, despite the existence--and repeated articulation--of vast swathes of opinion and evidence weighed against them.

Reports of my deafness greatly exaggerated. I'm just not engaging directly with trolls anymore. Particularly not one who displays such open contempt for other members. And especially not a recently banned one, whose main aim nowadays seems to be winding other members up to the point that they too receive infractions or bans.

A charming way to spend your free time, I'm sure.
 
Dkc said:
Anyone else switch off the telly after it went in? I did, watched the replay, didn't spot the handball, not offside. I thought there was nothing wrong with it, so I turned off the TV and went out. Only in the pub did I see it had been chalked off.
Click to expand...

In the pub?

Nice.
 

Marty_Mcfly said:
Another solution would be to augment a grid onto the screen view of the pitch to give an idea of relative positions on the pitch, the lines are fixed and dont move with players, if isnt clear and obvious within a certain amount of time it isnt given.

The EPL/FA will get nowhere in trying Scrap VAR other than further alienating us from the rest of the FIFA and UEFA membership, other countries seem to be implementing it without any issues, it almost feels like the FA dont want it so they've made it unworkable in an attempt to lobby support from English fans.

For that reason I'm accepting it and think the FA and EPL need to come up with practical solutions to fix it.
Click to expand...

I've said before that whatever computer they use could easily spit out a margin of error and anything less than that margin could just be classed as onside. My only hesitation with that is that what we're admitting is that the technology isn't completely accurate (relative to say goal-line tech). But the entire point of VAR is that it's hugely greater accuracy would make up for the delay in decision making.

Linesman are already fairly accurate. If what we're now saying is that VAR is only a marginal improvement at best then I go back to my big complaint which is that I want instant decisions.
 
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