Duffy, Sharp and Wilder

[Sean Thornton]

I think Chris wants to sell Billy because he scores a lot of goals and that makes him seem like he’s a really good player but apparently he’s not and he’s quite old and his legs have gone but not many people know that and so if they see how many goals he’s scored they might think he’s worth a lot of money and put a big offer in for him and then we will be rich and can buy another striker whose much younger than Billy with better legs and he can go straight into the first team and replace one of the 2 old crocks up front except that we won’t pay anyone higher wages than what Billy has had and even when Billy’s gone that will still be the maximum we’ll pay because it’s like a club tradition and stuff and our club motto is “don’t spunk money - spunk opportunities instead” or summat like that in Latin.

See kids. Say no to drugs.

 

[BushBlade]

Were you claiming that when you were defending him for around three months at the beginning of this year?

Or have you developed a nasty case of forum hindsight. It's very contagious

I was the first person on BM to call him Micky Adams Mk 2. Just getting that out there for when he gets the sack after losing to QPR.

 

[sheffielder]

Were you claiming that when you were defending him for around three months at the beginning of this year?

Or have you developed a nasty case of forum hindsight. It's very contagious

Just looking at what’s in front of my eyes. Alienating Duffy and Sharp when they squad is thread bare I will imagine has gone down a treat

 

[Sean Thornton]

I was the first person on BM to call him Micky Adams Mk 2. Just getting that out there for when he gets the sack after losing to QPR.

One good thing if that happens, even the Billy Boys and Duffmen will be behind Wilder when the protest hits the car park. Be a lot more there than the sorry Wilson turnout.

They wouldn't dare. Would they?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Just looking at what’s in front of my eyes. Alienating Duffy and Sharp when they squad is thread bare I will imagine has gone down a treat

Not what I asked is it?

 

[sheffielder]

Not what I asked is it?

I was defending him, but his team selection and as said those players makes me think something is wrong in the dressing room

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Wilder needs to swallow some pride and get Duffy and Sharp back in that starting line up on Saturday. He also needs to get Stearman back in the centre of defence. And start Woodburn in order to give us some pace.

Whatever the reason for excluding them, they don’t seem like foootball reasons to me. If he’s fell out with them then sort it out because he needs them ultimately to keep him in a job.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I was defending him, but his team selection and as said those players makes me think something is wrong in the dressing room

Now AND then? Only I can't recall anyone suggesting a split at that time, although they could have of course.

 

[BushBlade]

I was defending him, but his team selection and as said those players makes me think something is wrong in the dressing room

It could do with a redec, some of the pegs are loose and it stinks of sweat and failure.

 

[mattbianco1]

Have you adjusted for not being available through injury or suspension? You can't count those as "missing" if they couldn't play.

Genuine question btw, l don't know the answer.

I haven't no. The 'possible minutes' were purely based on games that they actually played in. Sharp featured in 35 games (28 starts). If he had played the entire 90mins in each of those games he would've played 3,150 mins.

I know he was out for 4 games in September and he never got suspended and 3 of those games were cup games. So that means that there are a further 10 league games that he was either an unused sub or injured.

Not sure if this means anything but the 3 cup games, he played 62, 88 and 89 mins and scored 1.

 

[mattbianco1]

On Clarke. The most frustrating part for me is that he wasn't consistent enough apart from the purple patch mid season. We were still creating the chances throughout the season but he wasn't taking them.

He are his goals in the games (left number denotes app number, a dash is a blank).

1. -
2. -
3. -
4. -
5. -
6. 2
7. 2
8. -
9. -
10. -
11. -
12. -
13. 4
14. 1
15. 3
16. 1
17. -
18. 1
19. -
20. -
21. -
22. -
23. 1
24. -
25. -
26. -
27. -
28. -
29. -
30. -
31. -
32. -
33. -
34. 1
35. 1
36. -
37. 1
38. -
39. 1

Clarke ONLY featured in League games.

 

[mattbianco1]

Here's Sharp's.

1. 1
2. -
3. -
4. 1
5. -
6. 2
7. -
8. -
9. -
10. 1
11. 1
12. -
13. -
14. 2
15. -
16. -
17. -
18. -
19. -
20. -
21. -
22. -
23. 1
24. 2
25. -
26. -
27. 2
28. -
29. -
30. -
31. -
32. -
33. -
34. -
35. -
36. -
37. 1

Sharp NEVER scored when coming off the bench (7 games)

 

[DronnieBlade]

Here's Sharp's.

1. 1
2. -
3. -
4. 1
5. -
6. 2
7. -
8. -
9. -
10. 1
11. 1
12. -
13. -
14. 2
15. -
16. -
17. -
18. -
19. -
20. -
21. -
22. -
23. 1
24. 2
25. -
26. -
27. 2
28. -
29. -
30. -
31. -
32. -
33. -
34. -
35. -
36. -
37. 1

Sharp NEVER scored when coming off the bench (7 games)

Crucially, tellingly, that’s 8 in first 14 when starting regularly, and most telling of all, when a certain Scottish fella was dictating games, creating plenty of overloads, from which Sharp thrives as service in to is both better and more frequent.

UTB

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

I think the Wednesday fans might have been on to something last season.

Sharp and Duffy spitroasted Wilder's daughter.

 

[Silent Blade]

I dont have a twitter account but I believe Duffy's girlfriend has deleted her tweet which is a sensible thing to do.

 

[mattbianco1]

I dont have a twitter account but I believe Duffy's girlfriend has deleted her tweet which is a sensible thing to do.

Indeed she has. Last tweet 4 days ago.

The OP doesn't make sense now

In other news, Jade Sharps fucking Scottish!! Who'd a thunk it

 

[BladeInIreland]

We could have 100 different managers come in to make the decision. 99 out of 100 would use Billy off the bench.

The other being adkins.

 

[Champagneblade]

Billy Sharp Stats last season:
28 starts
6 sub
13 goals
4 assists

Minutes on Pitch 2361.
Minutes per goal = 181.

Leon Clarke Stats last season:
38 starts
1 sub
19 goals
5 assists

Minutes on Pitch 3332.
Minutes per goal = 175.

So basically, they are equally as shit as each other. Clarke has a better minute/goal ratio...

HOWEVER... I will still defend Sharp over Clarke:

Sharp played in 35 games - 35 x 90 (mins) = 3060 which means he missed 700 minutes which equates to an avg of 67 mins played per game.
700 mins is 7.7 games missed by being substituted/subbed on.

Clarke played in 39 games - 39 x 90 (mins) = 3510 which means he missed 178 minutes which equates to an avg of 85 mins played per game.
178 mins is 1.9 games missed by being substituted/subbed on.

Sharp can score a lot of goals in 7 games.

Initially some good stats but I’m not clear how you then skew your conclusion to Billy.

Leon has a higher goals per game.
Leon has a fractionally better contribution to goals than Billy (goal + assist).
In terms of team play, Leon is a lot more help defending corners and set pieces. He’s also quicker and better in the air going forwards.

What is Billy better at than Leon, statistically or otherwise?

Billy was also on pens for 2 of his league goals. Yes they all count but had Leon been on them it could well have been 21 vs 11 not 19 vs 13.

 

[mattbianco1]

Initially some good stats but I’m not clear how you then skew your conclusion to Billy.

Leon has a higher goals per game.
Leon has a fractionally better contribution to goals than Billy (goal + assist).
In terms of team play, Leon is a lot more help defending corners and set pieces. He’s also quicker and better in the air going forwards.

What is Billy better at than Leon, statistically or otherwise?

Billy was also on pens for 2 of his league goals. Yes they all count but had Leon been on them it could well have been 21 vs 11 not 19 vs 13.

I skew to Billy on personal preference that's all. Coming off the bench and being benched restricted his chances of scoring. If Billy had played 90 mins each game, I think he would've scored more. Personal opinion thats all.

The facts show Clarke is marginally better with goals per game etc. I think a telling part is that Sharp never scored when coming on as a sub (6 games). He would have probably got a couple if he'd started maybe?!?

 

[DronnieBlade]

Initially some good stats but I’m not clear how you then skew your conclusion to Billy.

Leon has a higher goals per game.
Leon has a fractionally better contribution to goals than Billy (goal + assist).
In terms of team play, Leon is a lot more help defending corners and set pieces. He’s also quicker and better in the air going forwards.

What is Billy better at than Leon, statistically or otherwise?

Billy was also on pens for 2 of his league goals. Yes they all count but had Leon been on them it could well have been 21 vs 11 not 19 vs 13.

Champagne.

Honestly and without fear of contradiction.

Statistically it’s not even close. A bit of a landslide in fact based on last seasons numbers.

Leon wins more headers. That’s about it.

It becomes painfully obvious that this statistic by itself is the be all and end all for a VERY high percentage of our fan base, and skews the overall perception of a more widespread and balanced overview of all other meaningful and measurable KPIs (Key Performance Indicators).

UTB

 

[Silent Blade]

Initially some good stats but I’m not clear how you then skew your conclusion to Billy.

Leon has a higher goals per game.
Leon has a fractionally better contribution to goals than Billy (goal + assist).
In terms of team play, Leon is a lot more help defending corners and set pieces. He’s also quicker and better in the air going forwards.

What is Billy better at than Leon, statistically or otherwise?

Billy was also on pens for 2 of his league goals. Yes they all count but had Leon been on them it could well have been 21 vs 11 not 19 vs 13.

You have saved me from a lot of typing when I was about to reply!

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Champagne.

Honestly and without fear of contradiction.

Statistically it’s not even close. A bit of a landslide in fact based on last seasons numbers.

Leon wins more headers. That’s about it.

It becomes painfully obvious that this statistic by itself is the be all and end all for a VERY high percentage of our fan base, and skews the overall perception of a more widespread and balanced overview of all other meaningful and measurable KPIs (Key Performance Indicators).

UTB

You’re absolutely correct. The stats are just about meaningless. I read such things all the time and sometimes I think “just leave the fans to enjoy the speculation around the stats”, because it’s part and parcel of the game. But they aren’t statistically relevant and conclusions can’t be drawn on them.

It’s far more accurate to form opinions on what you see in terms of the performance.

Clarke is a very strange player. I personally think the lad has some serious issues going on, he strikes me as suffering from depression or bi-polar disease to be more precise. One minute he’s up in the air and playing like a man possessed, the next he’s flat as a damp dishcloth and looking out of sorts. His career has been like that and we’re lucky we’ve seen the best of him. We can’t rely on him ultimately because we don’t know which of his personalities we are dealing with.

Sharp is a different animal. Always gives 100%, always dangerous, but limited without someone to play off. Useless in the air, no pace on the ground.

Neither are ideal but comparing who scored how many and when is about as helpful as comparing what they had for breakfast. Put the stats aside a minute and look at the overall contribution to the team. It tells you far more. Same for all the players for that matter.

 

[DronnieBlade]

You’re absolutely correct. The stats are just about meaningless. I read such things all the time and sometimes I think “just leave the fans to enjoy the speculation around the stats”, because it’s part and parcel of the game. But they aren’t statistically relevant and conclusions can’t be drawn on them.

It’s far more accurate to form opinions on what you see in terms of the performance.

Clarke is a very strange player. I personally think the lad has some serious issues going on, he strikes me as suffering from depression or bi-polar disease to be more precise. One minute he’s up in the air and playing like a man possessed, the next he’s flat as a damp dishcloth and looking out of sorts. His career has been like that and we’re lucky we’ve seen the best of him. We can’t rely on him ultimately because we don’t know which of his personalities we are dealing with.

Sharp is a different animal. Always gives 100%, always dangerous, but limited without someone to play off. Useless in the air, no pace on the ground.

Neither are ideal but comparing who scored how many and when is about as helpful as comparing what they had for breakfast. Put the stats aside a minute and look at the overall contribution to the team. It tells you far more. Same for all the players for that matter.

Interesting.

“Look at the contribution to the team” you say.

How might this be possible ?

Trust your instincts ?
Your opinions ?
What you (believe) you see ?

The above is EXACTLY what I am wanting to strip out of the situation.

The human brain is a very powerful thing. It is possible to convince yourself of almost anything !!

Suffice to say your rather glib dismissal of a balanced / widespread and meaningful statistical comparison is not a view I share.

Used well, they take out the “human error” aspect as above and provide real factual and beyond dispute evidence.

Which in my book, carry’s significantly more weight than ones opinion !!

UTB

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Interesting.

“Look at the contribution to the team” you say.

How might this be possible ?

Trust your instincts ?
Your opinions ?
What you (believe) you see ?

The above is EXACTLY what I am wanting to strip out of the situation.

The human brain is a very powerful thing. It is possible to convince yourself of almost anything !!

Suffice to say your rather glib dismissal of a balanced / widespread and meaningful statistical comparison is not a view I share.

Used well, they take out the “human error” aspect as above and provide real factual and beyond dispute evidence.

Which in my book, carry’s significantly more weight than ones opinion !!

UTB

Jeepers! I’m totally confused now. I thought I was agreeing with you!

I must have got you confused with someone else?

It probably won’t help one iota, but i do work with stats and understand them. P values, confidence intervals, etc.

The stats mentioned on lots of football forums aren’t “stats” at all, in so much as they are statistically meaningless. They are interesting from an entertainment value though, and at best, may suggest some kind of trend.

A bit like the, “United have not lost a game in which player X started”, or “United have not beaten team X for 73 years”. It’s all eyewash I’m afraid and has no statistical relevance in the vast majority of cases.

Hope that helps. Not sure it will. And sorry if I ruined a bit of fun here with the boring truth!

 

[DronnieBlade]

Jeepers! I’m totally confused now. I thought I was agreeing with you!

I must have got you confused with someone else?

It probably won’t help one iota, but i do work with stats and understand them. P values, confidence intervals, etc.

The stats mentioned on lots of football forums aren’t “stats” at all, in so much as they are statistically meaningless. They are interesting from an entertainment value though, and at best, may suggest some kind of trend.

A bit like the, “United have not lost a game in which player X started”, or “United have not beaten team X for 73 years”. It’s all eyewash I’m afraid and has no statistical relevance in the vast majority of cases.

Hope that helps. Not sure it will. And sorry if I ruined a bit of fun here with the boring truth!

I understood you were agreeing.

I also work with numbers. I’d like to think I have a reasonable grasp of understanding and interpreting them.

Our OPINIONS (let me make this at least clear) differ on this.

A single statistic can, quite obviously, be skewed to magnify a particular view or perspective.

A dozen or so measured, meaningful and highly relevant statistics CAN provide a much more balanced overall view.

Ideally you would need more. Several hundred + to make the sample size ideal.

But there just isn’t several hundred + stats out there to use in this case, thus the reason the lower number is used.

UTB

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Compare Sharp and Clarke's stats over their entire career and Sharp blows him out of the water.

Before last season Clarke's Championship record was 35 goals in 180 matches.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Compare Sharp and Clarke's stats over their entire career and Sharp blows him out of the water.

Before last season Clarke's Championship record was 35 goals in 180 matches.

If we want to be blunt about Leon's career, until last season he's been utter wank. To compare him with Billy over the last 12 years is fucking absurd.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I understood you were agreeing.

I also work with numbers. I’d like to think I have a reasonable grasp of understanding and interpreting them.

Our OPINIONS (let me make this at least clear) differ on this.

A single statistic can, quite obviously, be skewed to magnify a particular view or perspective.

A dozen or so measured, meaningful and highly relevant statistics CAN provide a much more balanced overall view.

Ideally you would need more. Several hundred + to make the sample size ideal.

But there just isn’t several hundred + stats out there to use in this case, thus the reason the lower number is used.

UTB

I bet most of us work with numbers. Statistics are something entirely different. That’s about coming to a factual conclusion based on evidence that is supported by the numbers. Statistics cannot be “skewed” like you say. They stand up to scientific rigour. I’m not saying folk don’t try to skew them, they most certainly do, but numerically it is absolutely clear what is factual and what is not.

Take a coin from your pocket. Toss it and see how it lands. Do it 10 times. You may get heads 9 times out of 10. What does that tell you?

(The answer is absolutely nothing btw).

In “football science” that tells you that heads is more likely to turn up than tails. This is what football stats are largely based on.

But in science you’d have to toss that coin at least 100 times and heads (or tails) would have to win at least 95 times out of 100 for it to have any scientific meaning. Otherwise, it’s totally meaningless.

I have no time whatsoever for half-arsed statistics conjured up by football fans trying to prove a point or journalists trying to spark interests in a column.

I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be awkward or difficult. But I do understand the relevance of such numbers and what I’m saying is it means nothing statistically. So you’re far better off taking a wider view of the players overall performance and basing your conclusions on that.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I bet most of us work with numbers. Statistics are something entirely different. That’s about coming to a factual conclusion based on evidence that is supported by the numbers. Statistics cannot be “skewed” like you say. They stand up to scientific rigour. I’m not saying folk don’t try to skew them, they most certainly do, but numerically it is absolutely clear what is factual and what is not.

Take a coin from your pocket. Toss it and see how it lands. Do it 10 times. You may get heads 9 times out of 10. What does that tell you?

(The answer is absolutely nothing btw).

In “football science” that tells you that heads is more likely to turn up than tails. This is what football stats are largely based on.

But in science you’d have to toss that coin at least 100 times and heads (or tails) would have to win at least 95 times out of 100 for it to have any scientific meaning. Otherwise, it’s totally meaningless.

I have no time whatsoever for half-arsed statistics conjured up by football fans trying to prove a point or journalists trying to spark interests in a column.

I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be awkward or difficult. But I do understand the relevance of such numbers and what I’m saying is it means nothing statistically. So you’re far better off taking a wider view of the players overall performance and basing your conclusions on that.

It's the interpretation that can be skewed surely? As we can see......

 

[Cerberus Blade]

It's the interpretation that can be skewed surely? As we can see......

Yes of course. I agree entirely.

It’s the difference between facts and opinions. A fact cannot be skewed. It’s absolutely 100% indisputable - and this is what “Statistics” show.

But most people can’t distinguish between a “statistic” or a “trend” or an “opinion” which is really concerning when it comes down to the interpretation.