Does Wilder deserve credit for the present crop from the Academy

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Bladeinleeds

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Think that’s unfair.. I’m not in the militant wilder support group

but he gave minutes to

DCL
Ramsdale
Adams
Brookes

And he had them all sold before they could establish themselves,then apart from those players who else came through pre Covid who was good enough to make it? Brookes also suffered from a long term illness didn’t he which curtailed his involvement

Weren’t three of them sold his first preseason without playing? Not sure we can claim he gave them minutes. Though might be mixing time lines to be fair…

not stating he wanted them out by any means, and they would have probable gone anyway but i don’t think he was really that bothered by them going. He used the the funds very well indeed - we can all admit and it was probably the right decision.

Covid is also a red herring, he could have quarantined them to move them into first team if he’d wanted to. the likes of n’daiye and norringron davies are over 21 - so wouldn’t have been like throwing Jebbo in at 16/17.

I like wilder - he was a good manager but he wasn’t without fault. He wasn’t a developer, that’s pretty self evident from his history in the game and time with us. Nothing wrong with wanting seasoned pros, so I don’t think we can suddenly claim he couldn’t have played the kids if he wanted.

He clearly didn’t want to. he didn’t give brooks ago once we were promoted from league 1 ‘because it wouldn’t have been fair ‘ - which is patiently nonsense. He had his squad and he stuck to it irregadless
 

Greenblades

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One of the early things that CW did, I believe, was to overhaul the Academy. He brought in Jack Lester to over see it and it seems that things have moved on very much in the right direction since. I do not follow the Academy closely but I know that last season both U18's and U 23's were excellent. More importantly it appears that there is a crop of players who are thought to have real potential. The classic example is Ndaiye whose debut last Saturday was breath taking in a game I will never forget. Fortunately it seems that PA intervened to make sure he was given a contact otherwise we might have lost him. He appears to be an absolute gem and will surely go onto great things hopefully with us.
In addition we have Jebbison (who apparently Everton wanted to buy for £5 mill) and a number of other players some of whom have gone out on loan but who are widely tipped as stars of the near future; Lopata, Gordon, Brunt, Seriki and others. Would be interested to hear what regular followers of the U18's and U23's who post on here think.

Could the overhaul be one of Wilder's best decisions and can we nurture some others who are as good as Ndaiye?
I think he recommended Brian Deane and Tony Agana too……. Oh wait a minute …… put em together and what have you got …. Another bloody CW thread. ……… Next……..!,,,
 

Revolution

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Players from our academy who played league games under Wilder (not including players sold and re-signed):

David Brooks, 30 games (21 as sub)
George Long, 3 games
Jake Eastwood, 1 game (as a sub)
Regan Slater, 1 game (as a sub)
Antwoine Hackford, 1 game (as a sub)
 

EddieColquhoun

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One of the early things that CW did, I believe, was to overhaul the Academy. He brought in Jack Lester to over see it and it seems that things have moved on very much in the right direction since. I do not follow the Academy closely but I know that last season both U18's and U 23's were excellent. More importantly it appears that there is a crop of players who are thought to have real potential. The classic example is Ndaiye whose debut last Saturday was breath taking in a game I will never forget. Fortunately it seems that PA intervened to make sure he was given a contact otherwise we might have lost him. He appears to be an absolute gem and will surely go onto great things hopefully with us.
In addition we have Jebbison (who apparently Everton wanted to buy for £5 mill) and a number of other players some of whom have gone out on loan but who are widely tipped as stars of the near future; Lopata, Gordon, Brunt, Seriki and others. Would be interested to hear what regular followers of the U18's and U23's who post on here think.

Could the overhaul be one of Wilder's best decisions and can we nurture some others who are as good as Ndaiye?
Did CW cut himself short by asking for a £4m pay-off?
 

Davalon

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297398567.gallery.jpg
Look at our sexy European manager who keeps himself in great shape into his 50's 😍
 

Torrix1889

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Players from our academy who played league games under Wilder (not including players sold and re-signed):

David Brooks, 30 games (21 as sub)
George Long, 3 games
Jake Eastwood, 1 game (as a sub)
Regan Slater, 1 game (as a sub)
Antwoine Hackford, 1 game (as a sub)

Point proved.....end of thread.
 

N20 Blade

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When Slater played at Ipswich in the cup, he made a big deal of pushing him towards the away fans and I thought maybe it was the start of a new, more proactive approach with younger players but no it was a false dawn. Even though he played Brooks regularly that season, one always sensed it wasn't something he was particularly comfortable with. Strange that for someone forward thinking in many respects, he was so conservative in others. Remember when Clough played Adams v Spurs, thought it was a brave decision, and the harder ones often are.
 

LarryLargeSwede

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Wasn't early was it? 2019 JL became Academy Manager.

Didn't TB leave to join Man Utd?
Did TB leave or was there an agreement to leave due to a clash of ideas, direction and personality between himself and the 1st team management set-up plus the Chief Exec?. He was a McCabe appointment.

TB took the Man Utd job a good while after leaving The Blades. Maybe a contractual obligation not to get a job for a certain period of time. Like a gardening leave?

An friend who works for United and used to work with/for TB told me that he has already been promoted to Head U18's coach there and sent me this link.

https://weallfollowunited.com/2021/...t-travis-binnion-as-their-new-under-18-coach/
 
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Booker4

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Absolutely not.

no slight at wilder but he showed absolutely zero inclination to play any academy players - preference was for established professionals.

brooks is the only one and his hand was forced because of just how good he was. Even then he wasn’t really a regular.

RND would have saved us 15k a week and 2m fee we paid for Lowe. but wilder never gave him a chance.

we may not have had much of a chance but he didn’t exactly pound the table to keep ramsdale or DCL

Fair enough when things were working (which they did for 90% of his time here) but he never gave any academy lads a chance even when it patently wasn’t

His strengths lay elsewhere but he had no interest in developing young play.
Sorry BladeinLeeds, but can't agree with much of that. Just out of interest how do you know that Wilder didn't fight tooth and nail to keep DCL and Rammers? You have to remember we were in League One and broke when those deals happened, I would make a decent assertion that Wilder had no choice to keep them or if he did then at the cost of a much reduced budget. Also the players would have no doubt wanted the move to PL clubs and to vastly increase their salary. DCL said he just couldn't turn the move down. To also lose Adams, who was our most creative player at the time, and then go onto win the league I'd say Wilder can only be praised for that season.

As for Wilder never playing youngsters, all of the lads coming through now such as Brunt, Lopata, Jebbison, Hackford, Brunt, Seriki and Ndiaye, out of all of those lads we've only seen Ndiaye make the breakthrough, I don't include Jebbo because Slav has decided he can go on loan this season and not use him. So back to last season when we were bottom of the league and desperate for points, I'm not so sure that introducing and of the above would have made any difference and possibly just damaged their confidence. Hecky only used Jebbo in the last few games when there was nothing to lose by then.

As far as I can see the only argument against Wilder and the youngsters is with RND and buying Lowe instead, but last summer RND had only played at League One level, I would say a loan on the Championship was his natural progression and in his interests to play every week over being a back-up for Enda, who was undoubtedly first choice. I think the signing of Lowe was a bizarre in a way, given that RND was probably only one season away from coming into the first team, but we needed cover right then and if Enda breaks his leg just after the window closes then he needed someone more experienced than RND.
 

Bladeinleeds

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Sorry BladeinLeeds, but can't agree with much of that. Just out of interest how do you know that Wilder didn't fight tooth and nail to keep DCL and Rammers? You have to remember we were in League One and broke when those deals happened, I would make a decent assertion that Wilder had no choice to keep them or if he did then at the cost of a much reduced budget. Also the players would have no doubt wanted the move to PL clubs and to vastly increase their salary. DCL said he just couldn't turn the move down. To also lose Adams, who was our most creative player at the time, and then go onto win the league I'd say Wilder can only be praised for that season.

As for Wilder never playing youngsters, all of the lads coming through now such as Brunt, Lopata, Jebbison, Hackford, Brunt, Seriki and Ndiaye, out of all of those lads we've only seen Ndiaye make the breakthrough, I don't include Jebbo because Slav has decided he can go on loan this season and not use him. So back to last season when we were bottom of the league and desperate for points, I'm not so sure that introducing and of the above would have made any difference and possibly just damaged their confidence. Hecky only used Jebbo in the last few games when there was nothing to lose by then.

As far as I can see the only argument against Wilder and the youngsters is with RND and buying Lowe instead, but last summer RND had only played at League One level, I would say a loan on the Championship was his natural progression and in his interests to play every week over being a back-up for Enda, who was undoubtedly first choice. I think the signing of Lowe was a bizarre in a way, given that RND was probably only one season away from coming into the first team, but we needed cover right then and if Enda breaks his leg just after the window closes then he needed someone more experienced than RND.

Dont get me wrong - wilder did lots of brilliant things. And he’s deservedly earned credit for those things. I just don’t see why we are feeling the need to suggest he’s some sort of champion of youth when he’s just really not. His desire was clearly and unequivocally for experienced pros.

I am by no means suggesting it was wrong of him not to play youth. It wouldn’t be a stretch to suggest we might never have got promoted if he’d kept dcl and ramsdale and not used the funds from their sale effectively.

On dcl, ramsdale etc. I clearly have no insight but think - if his preference been for developing youth. His priorities might have been different and he might have forgone a couple of signings to push harder to keep some of the youth. They may obviously still have been sold but I guess we might have fought harder on fees and to convince them they would get time in the side.

As for the introduction of youth. we hadn’t won in 20 odd games and were down to 3 midfielders in total, none of whom were playing well. We had absolutely zero creativity and the season was done by October. There was no more risk in introducing them then than for PH at the end of the year. Imo. Still they were no where to be seen - despite in wilders apparent own words ‘n’daiye being the most talented player at the club.’

He could have got some of the young squad experience on the bench when we were doing ok in the first PL season. We chose an to put Leon Clark and k. freeman in the side at the end of the first PL instead of any youth opportunities at that stage.

It’s hard to develop players and getting youth into the side is either a priority or it’s not. Wilder didn’t give brooks a look in until it was unavoidable given how he was playing for England, he was all set to send him to L2. To my mind it’s obviously it wasn’t a key priority for him.

that’s wilders philosophy- and it’s clearly worked for him. He’s just clearly not the northern Arsene Wenger
 

Balham Blade

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Did TB leave or was there an agreement to leave due to a clash of ideas, direction and personality between himself and the 1st team management set-up plus the Chief Exec?. He was a McCabe appointment.

TB took the Man Utd job a good while after leaving The Blades. Maybe a contractual obligation not to get a job for a certain period of time. Like a gardening leave?

An friend who works for United and used to work with/for TB told me that he has already been promoted to Head U18's coach there and sent me this link.

https://weallfollowunited.com/2021/...t-travis-binnion-as-their-new-under-18-coach/
Newton Heath's Head of Academy Operations is Nick Cox, formerly of this parish. He worked with Binnion at Shirecliffe so would have been instrumental in bringing him into the Man U system. From what I've read on here Binnion was well thought of at United but I wonder whether he's more suited to being an age group coach than full blown academy manager/U21s coach. The two roles (U18s coach and academy manager) are totally different.

Lots of discussion of Binnion's departure and the subsequent arrival of Jack Lester here: https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/academy-reshuffle.73544/
 

Stu_Blade

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Definitely moved on from Wilder but it must be a difficult job to gamble whether a player is ready for first team football. It's probably easier in the cups if you aren't heavily invested in them but I suppose that's why you are paid the money for making decisions and if David Moyes hadn't of gambled on Wayne Rooney in 02/03 season he might have not made it who knows.
 

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