Do we need to pay any transfer fees where we are at?

[BushBlade]

Not saying, and never have said, he is creaming off the club. Let me make that clear.

I am saying he has misappropriated funds within the club for say, the Desso, when really we could have done with a couple of centre backs. I am saying he has possibly looked at Clough's list of targets and said "Nope, nope, nope, forget it, not him, not him either ... " and Clough has gone "Fuck you. I am out of here (by mutual consent, of course). Thanks for the payoff." But, y'know. He's the chairman, I am just some schmuck on a messageboard. He's not accountable to me, nor any of the supporters.

Even when 16000 of them part with £300 or so for season tickets.

So the last nine years of fucking wank is due to KM buying a Desso pitch?

 

[pommpey]

So the last nine years of fucking wank is due to KM buying a Desso pitch?

Of course it is, Bush.

That, and the myriad of fuck ups I listed earlier. Chief of these is defenstrating this club of its talent, and having nothing to show for the depletion out on the pitch.

pommpey

 

[Woodwardfan]

You sound like you know the figures, but despite us asking, you come up with nowt but bubbles.

pommpey

It would take so long and it's there for you to look up. Financial year end this month, accounts presented in December. Why not take some notice. Loads of threads in the past year, search for them and if you search on Sean Thornton's history he's the man with the detail, it's all there to see as you well know.

 

[BushBlade]

Of course it is, Bush.

That, and the myriad of fuck ups I listed earlier. Chief of these is defenstrating this club of its talent, and having nothing to show for the depletion out on the pitch.

pommpey

But that isn't what I'm disagreeing with. I've already said on this thread (and several hundred others) that he has not run the club properly.

Can you either

1. Accept that KM has lost a lot of money covering the losses made by the club.
Or
2. Provide concrete proof that he hasn't.

Because you're the one claiming that despite the club losing money hand over fist (supported by the accounts), the managers aren't being financially backed.

Or, set out your argument in a cohesive logical manner so that other people can understand the point you're making?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You might want to think about where we would be without the investment we have had

Probably struggling to put together a squad capable of mounting a serious promotion challenge even in League 1 whilst financing far fewer nights on the town than we have for Nigel Clough’s mates.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I once heard Kevin Blackwell describe transfer policy as follows:

If you're Chelsea, Man Utd or Real Madrid and you need a left back, you identify your No. 1 target, get the chequebook out and pay whatever it takes to sign that player.

However, if your Sheffield United you identify 5 left backs that could all do a job. You rank them 1 to 5 and then start negotiating at the top of the list, work your way down, and you end up with whichever left back out of the 5 will come.​

For the last 3 years we have been using the Chelsea, Man Utd, Real Madrid model and not been promoted; whereas now we have reverted back to any one from 5

This approach obviously takes longer as you have to negotiate with far more players, so we must just be patient, and see what happens.

I disagree that we have been using the model you say. If we had, we would have signed O Grady, Brayford and Coady in the summer of 2014 but instead, we missed out and got Higdon, Alcock and James Wallace. I don’t buy for a moment that any of them were our first choices.


We’ve still had several targets and had to take 2nd or 3rd choice sometims. Done was plan B after we lost out on Doyle.





Ps. If Jordan Stewart and Andy Taylor made Blackwell's list of left backs, you have to wonder who the other 3 were.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

True Woody and agree with you . The commitment and investment has always been there from the McCabes , in fact at certain times too much commitment as with Clough . It's easy for fans to knock the board and then manager . Wonder when the honeymoon period will be over for Wilder .

What we have to remember , millions of pounds in the past has been wasted at the lane , ok McCabes fault and money , but we can never say investments has not been there . Tried yes , failed yes.

I wouldn’t say “too much commitment”. I would say too little nous.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

'Unneeded new playing surface'.

However you want to brush over the tracks, the trail of rank incompetence and nest feathering is right there. 12 months ago you and I were arguing about much of the same thing and you were pleading for clemency for McCabe and the regime.

Do you have any details about Baki and hos deliverables to the club, by the way?

pommpey

We got a friendly against Fenerbache at the lane? Don’t know any more than that.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

BHe wanted to make all his signings early that summer, I bet most wish we had waited.
.

Our recruitment didn’t really get any better later that summer with Higdon, Alcock and McEveley coming in towards the end of the summer.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

He shouldn't have been allowed such control over player wages. The club should always have a reasonable wage structure that is stuck to, they have to take responsibility for straying away from that so easily. They put a (baseless and undeserved) level of trust in him that went way beyond what's right. We're a big football club, Nigel Clough is a bang average manager at best, as his record showed before we appointed him. Yet they allowed us to be completely at his mercy, right in the palm of his hand.

I think he earned so much goodwill in the spring of 2014 that those in charge got a little carried away. Most fans didn’t mind because we were told “game changing investment”. Little did we know it meant one season of decent backing in which our best player would still be sold as usual and then a period of austerity and chopping and changing managers immediately after. Brannigan’s role and his history with Clough seemed to compound matters in some ways.

 

[Sean Thornton]

We got a friendly against Fenerbache at the lane? Don’t know any more than that.

Whatever he does, he gets no money from the club. He's on the Princes payroll.

 

[Sean Thornton]

But that isn't what I'm disagreeing with. I've already said on this thread (and several hundred others) that he has not run the club properly.

Can you either

1. Accept that KM has lost a lot of money covering the losses made by the club.
Or
2. Provide concrete proof that he hasn't.

Because you're the one claiming that despite the club losing money hand over fist (supported by the accounts), the managers aren't being financially backed.

Or, set out your argument in a cohesive logical manner so that other people can understand the point you're making?

Don't forget "nest feathering" !

 

[BushBlade]

I disagree that we have been using the model you say. If we had, we would have signed O Grady, Brayford and Coady in the summer of 2014 but instead, we missed out and got Higdon, Alcock and James Wallace. I don’t buy for a moment that any of them were our first choices.


We’ve still had several targets and had to take 2nd or 3rd choice sometims. Done was plan B after we lost out on Doyle.





Ps. If Jordan Stewart and Andy Taylor made Blackwell's list of left backs, you have to wonder who the other 3 were.

Done was about Plan D after O Grady, Doyle and S Davis.

I do wonder how many times Clough ended up with fourth or fifth choice and how much we suffered from it. Maybe his last list was only first choices and he said 'if you want to go up, sign these, otherwise don't bother signing anyone but don't expect promotion'.

There is something fundamentally wrong at the club but none of us can really put our finger on what; nor are we likely to be able to without knowing the detail of how our club is run and the detail of how some of the successful clubs are run, as a benchmark.

In my industry I sometimes come across people who haven't ever worked for an effective organisation, they just get qualified and set up on their own and some get it more or less right, others are miles off but think they are doing a good job. Because they've never seen what a good job looks like.

I think we're like that as a club. No one at board level has ever worked for a successful club so they can pat themselves on the back and say 'we're doing a great job' without really comparing to or analysing a successful club. They keep doing what they think is a good job and wondering why it isn't successful. And no one is ever in the job long enough to learn from their mistakes.

On another thread I've discussed with Pommpey the financial situation as I think, generally speaking, KM has lost a lot of money and has, to an extent, backed the managers financially. I don't think it's a simple as there not being money invested.

It's far more complex than that and stems from the repeated failures to find a manager that can turn us around and/or give them sufficient time to do so. If there is a financial failure, it's the lack of realisation of how much it costs to sack a manager; not just compensation but the number of players that have to be shipped out each time we do it - the cost of paying them off and the cost of replacing them.

The board allowed Clough to spend over £2m in transfer fees and commit the club to high wages for several players for two and a half years in the JTW. And players that were fiercely loyal to him. If you do that, you have to understand that if you sack him, you have to allow to get rid of these players and replace them. And include the cost of doing so in your budget. We didn't so Adkins struggles and gets the sack. Now we go again, players to pay off, players to buy Where's the money coming from?

I think the board may be secretly accepting that we probably won't go up this season. Their aim, in my opinion, is to get the club running at break even so it doesn't matter to them when we go up, they're not losing money so it's less of a priority. Even if we're running at break even we should still be able to compete with most L1 clubs financially.

I'll be disappointed if we don't go up but even more disappointed if Wilder gets the boot and the blame but I suspect the board have bought in a Bladey blade in the hope that we, the supporters, will give him time and tolerance and they won't have to sack him to sell season tickets.


Edit: actually it's not on another thread, it's on this one.

 

[BushBlade]

Don't forget "nest feathering" !

No, I'm not doing metaphor, simile or analogy. I want plain English, in real sentences, in a logical order. Otherwise my brain doesn't compute. Especially today, I've had a week off work where I've stayed away from computers and social media and communicated to my friends using the spoken word. I'm now struggling to adapt to 'writing' again and reading is an effort. I need spoon feeding for the next few days until I've turned back into the Microsoft compatible automaton it's necessary to be to do my job and communicate my thoughts in the written form.

 

[pommpey]

But that isn't what I'm disagreeing with. I've already said on this thread (and several hundred others) that he has not run the club properly.

Can you either

1. Accept that KM has lost a lot of money covering the losses made by the club.
Or
2. Provide concrete proof that he hasn't.

Because you're the one claiming that despite the club losing money hand over fist (supported by the accounts), the managers aren't being financially backed.

Or, set out your argument in a cohesive logical manner so that other people can understand the point you're making?

Its a bit of both, isn't it? I'd say McCabe has lost money in the club, but he cannot but have recouped some of it in overall value and by selling good players and instructing the purchase of cheap, very inferior replacements. I give you McDonald and Maguire as examples of that and their immediate transferred in replacements. It isn't rocket science, and as much as it isn't difficult to understand why the club is sliding down the pan. Surely though, sometime around 2013 when the Prince was persuaded to join the board and invest, where was the net output or result of that? Was it to save McCabe throwing in the towel and selling at a massive loss? I mean, we haven't heard anything of him since, have we? How much actually has been ploughed into paying off Weir, Clough and Adkins and their silence? Warnock wasn't backwards in coming forwards in telling anyone who'd listen how shabbily he'd been treat, and all those since have been strangely invisible in any reason for their departures. Why? Is it money? If not, what is wrong with articulating what went wrong at Bramall Lane?

Or don't you want to know? It seems pretty bloody important, because the same bloody mistakes and errors seem to be being made, and as much as I am confident about Wilder's mettle as a manger, I will be fucking unimpressed if we fail to recruit and reinforce the squad, have a less than worthy first part of the season, take the issue to the bitter end of the JTW and finish ignominiously outside the automatics and end up with his predictable sacking in May 2017.

pommpey

 

[BushBlade]

Its a bit of both, isn't it? I'd say McCabe has lost money in the club, but he cannot but have recouped some of it in overall value and by selling good players and instructing the purchase of cheap, very inferior replacements. I give you McDonald and Maguire as examples of that and their immediate transferred in replacements. It isn't rocket science, and as much as it isn't difficult to understand why the club is sliding down the pan. Surely though, sometime around 2013 when the Prince was persuaded to join the board and invest, where was the net output or result of that? Was it to save McCabe throwing in the towel and selling at a massive loss? I mean, we haven't heard anything of him since, have we? How much actually has been ploughed into paying off Weir, Clough and Adkins and their silence? Warnock wasn't backwards in coming forwards in telling anyone who'd listen how shabbily he'd been treat, and all those since have been strangely invisible in any reason for their departures. Why? Is it money? If not, what is wrong with articulating what went wrong at Bramall Lane?

Or don't you want to know? It seems pretty bloody important, because the same bloody mistakes and errors seem to be being made, and as much as I am confident about Wilder's mettle as a manger, I will be fucking unimpressed if we fail to recruit and reinforce the squad, have a less than worthy first part of the season, take the issue to the bitter end of the JTW and finish ignominiously outside the automatics and end up with his predictable sacking in May 2017.

pommpey

Don't I want to know? I wouldn't be discussing it if I didn't want to know. It puzzles me how we continually downgrade players but our expenses seem to go up.

Is it a general trend? Is it a knock on effect of the stupid money paid in the PL and, to a lesser extent (but relatively more stupid) the championship.

Or is it the cost of continually sacking managers? Something I've mentioned in a post above.

 

[pommpey]

Don't forget "nest feathering" !

In context, it is a fair assessment.

In the cold light of day, if I owned most of a football club and it was shedding worth like a snake does its skin, I'd be redirecting capital to maintain it's material market value, rather than ploughing money into the playing staff. I mean, why should I? 16000 voters agree with my strategy.

pommpey

 

[BushBlade]

In context, it is a fair assessment.

In the cold light of day, if I owned most of a football club and it was shedding worth like a snake does its skin, I'd be redirecting capital to maintain it's material market value, rather than ploughing money into the playing staff. I mean, why should I? 16000 voters agree with my strategy.

pommpey

So, what you're saying is, if you owned the Blades, you'd fuck us over?

 

[pommpey]

So, what you're saying is, if you owned the Blades, you'd fuck us over?

Yep. Well done McCabe!

pommpey

 

[spongebobblade]

Yep. Well done McCabe!

pommpey

Pommpey,
I'm not looking for an argument but my main objection was that you were saying MacCabe had invested fuck all in United yet in post 133 you agreed with Bushblade when he pointed out the investment in the squad!
Nobody disagrees that he's fucked up big style and often goes about things in totally the wrong way. In post 79 you say that everything other than what happens on the pitch is down to the chairman and board. We both know signings etc are not down to the chairman so whether it's Clough, Adkins or whoever manages, buck stops with them with regards to choice. If they don't work out then its wasted money by the men who sign them. Surely we can agree on that

 

[pommpey]

We both know signings etc are not down to the chairman so whether it's Clough, Adkins or whoever manages, buck stops with them with regards to choice. If they don't work out then its wasted money by the men who sign them. Surely we can agree on that

You actually understand how the transfer thing works in a football club, don't you?

pommpey

 

[Snowman]

You actually understand how the transfer thing works in a football club, don't you?

pommpey

Well, tell you what. I am willing to be enlightened Obi Wan Enoki. How does the "transfer thing" work in a football club?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Done was about Plan D after O Grady, Doyle and S Davis.

I do wonder how many times Clough ended up with fourth or fifth choice and how much we suffered from it. Maybe his last list was only first choices and he said 'if you want to go up, sign these, otherwise don't bother signing anyone but don't expect promotion'.

There is something fundamentally wrong at the club but none of us can really put our finger on what; nor are we likely to be able to without knowing the detail of how our club is run and the detail of how some of the successful clubs are run, as a benchmark.

In my industry I sometimes come across people who haven't ever worked for an effective organisation, they just get qualified and set up on their own and some get it more or less right, others are miles off but think they are doing a good job. Because they've never seen what a good job looks like.

I think we're like that as a club. No one at board level has ever worked for a successful club so they can pat themselves on the back and say 'we're doing a great job' without really comparing to or analysing a successful club. They keep doing what they think is a good job and wondering why it isn't successful. And no one is ever in the job long enough to learn from their mistakes.

On another thread I've discussed with Pommpey the financial situation as I think, generally speaking, KM has lost a lot of money and has, to an extent, backed the managers financially. I don't think it's a simple as there not being money invested.

It's far more complex than that and stems from the repeated failures to find a manager that can turn us around and/or give them sufficient time to do so. If there is a financial failure, it's the lack of realisation of how much it costs to sack a manager; not just compensation but the number of players that have to be shipped out each time we do it - the cost of paying them off and the cost of replacing them.

The board allowed Clough to spend over £2m in transfer fees and commit the club to high wages for several players for two and a half years in the JTW. And players that were fiercely loyal to him. If you do that, you have to understand that if you sack him, you have to allow to get rid of these players and replace them. And include the cost of doing so in your budget. We didn't so Adkins struggles and gets the sack. Now we go again, players to pay off, players to buy Where's the money coming from?

I think the board may be secretly accepting that we probably won't go up this season. Their aim, in my opinion, is to get the club running at break even so it doesn't matter to them when we go up, they're not losing money so it's less of a priority. Even if we're running at break even we should still be able to compete with most L1 clubs financially.

I'll be disappointed if we don't go up but even more disappointed if Wilder gets the boot and the blame but I suspect the board have bought in a Bladey blade in the hope that we, the supporters, will give him time and tolerance and they won't have to sack him to sell season tickets.


Edit: actually it's not on another thread, it's on this one.

Good post. Don't quite agree with the reason the Board don't fully expect promotion this season, but otherwise I agree with most of what you say.

I believe/guess that Clough had to be sacked after a problem at a Board Meeting, otherwise he might still be here.

I guess that season ticket sales in May this year frightened McCabe and that got Adkins the sack, despite the Hammond commitment, or maybe because of the Hammond commitment, whichever way you look at that fateful mistake.

The Hammond example is the sort of nonsense that KM was railing on when he sacked Wilson and others before him. Loads of cash on expensive, experienced players who don't contribute anything whatsoever. He changed the way forward but along came the prince and it switched back to the same 'owd way, yet again to fail.

I think we're back to a similar concept as when Weir was appointed but with more money, in other words the club does not have to pay it's way but it probably has to reduce it's losses until we go up to the next leveland that's common sense surely. We need different signings once we go up.

I am almost certain Wilder will get at least 2 years to show progress as the Board have nowhere else to go. They hope for promotion this season but they have no right to expect it because Wilder is having to conduct a major clear-out and settling everything down after that obviously takes time unless the manager is a miracle worker and he's only worked one of those one season in 707 games!

If Wilder keeps the fans on his side by the end of next season then I'm sure he'll get more time even without promotion.

P.S. O'Gragy was needed by his club that January and beyond. Didn't Doyle go to the Championship? Davies came and wasn't good enough IMO.

 

[Sean Thornton]

In context, it is a fair assessment.

In the cold light of day, if I owned most of a football club and it was shedding worth like a snake does its skin, I'd be redirecting capital to maintain it's material market value, rather than ploughing money into the playing staff. I mean, why should I? 16000 voters agree with my strategy.

pommpey

So while losing money he's feathering his nest at the same time?

The simple, very simple way to see what McCabe has put into the club - and effectively lost - is to add up the cost of shareholding in the relevant three companies and add to that the amount shown as a share premium in the SUFC accounts.

To make the result more palatable, you can always deduct the interest taken out, but only the profit element of that because there will have been acost to it but unfortunately, unlike for the figures mentioned above, we don't have that information, but I doubt it's going to make a big difference overall.

 

[pommpey]

Well, tell you what. I am willing to be enlightened Obi Wan Enoki. How does the "transfer thing" work in a football club?

Well (hope you are sitting nicely) ....

Like most companies whereby there is an investment fund, the recipient manager of that department approaches the board for a share of that fund, based upon his or her projected requirements in the coming one, three or five financial years. Many times the ambitions will outstrip the available funds and many times the board will disagree with the projections and ambitions and indeed the overall requirements of the managers (or directors, or 'people in charge of that department, whatever phrase is used) Sometimes a nice compromise will take place, whereby phased financial injection and clever project management might see the whole business over the line.

That line for us is obviously 'promotion to the league above, with a view to staying there'. Now if that investment fund has been significantly mis-spent (on say, brand new shithouses and a new coffee machine) rather than on key issues (like say, an expensive, yet versatile and service-free piece of equipment which increases output) then you can imagine the company's returns at the end of the year. Another thing which can shit in your shareholder's chip bag is selling the company's Ford Transit, the forklift, the shelves in the warehouse and the desks in the office and even the only remaining typist who can spel propurlee.

Following me?

So, the nice Mr Weir/Clough/Adkins/Wilson/whoever says to Mr McCabe, "What are this year's objectives, please?" and if it is "Automatic Promotion" you'd think, just like the company mentioned, you'd need decent equipment and staff. Certainly well above what you have at the moment. I mean, sacking more staff is not really the way to recovery is it, particularly when you are at the lowest limit of your talent to sustain your position in and amongst your competitors. But don't worry. People might just say "Everything's gonna be alright" on internet messageboards, because you have a new manager to boss your frankly crap residual workforce. Three times over ... over four years.

So ... Clough/whoever says "To achieve this, we need to buy these" and Mr McCabe looks at his list and says, "I don't think so, Brian." Mr Adkins/Clough says "How the fuck do you expect me to motivate a talentless shower of dickwads to beat Brunsmeer Juniors next week in the cup/league/friendly/headers and volleys?"

Mr McCabe looks at his club, looks at the new pitch he has bought and looks at the manager and says, "You'll think of something."

In short, manager goes to chairman who has the money. Manager has transfer targets, chairman has other ideas. Guess who wins?

pommpey

 

[Woodwardfan]

Well (hope you are sitting nicely) ....

Like most companies whereby there is an investment fund, the recipient manager of that department approaches the board for a share of that fund, based upon his or her projected requirements in the coming one, three or five financial years. Many times the ambitions will outstrip the available funds and many times the board will disagree with the projections and ambitions and indeed the overall requirements of the managers (or directors, or 'people in charge of that department, whatever phrase is used) Sometimes a nice compromise will take place, whereby phased financial injection and clever project management might see the whole business over the line.

That line for us is obviously 'promotion to the league above, with a view to staying there'. Now if that investment fund has been significantly mis-spent (on say, brand new shithouses and a new coffee machine) rather than on key issues (like say, an expensive, yet versatile and service-free piece of equipment which increases output) then you can imagine the company's returns at the end of the year. Another thing which can shit in your shareholder's chip bag is selling the company's Ford Transit, the forklift, the shelves in the warehouse and the desks in the office and even the only remaining typist who can spel propurlee.

Following me?

So, the nice Mr Weir/Clough/Adkins/Wilson/whoever says to Mr McCabe, "What are this year's objectives, please?" and if it is "Automatic Promotion" you'd think, just like the company mentioned, you'd need decent equipment and staff. Certainly well above what you have at the moment. I mean, sacking more staff is not really the way to recovery is it, particularly when you are at the lowest limit of your talent to sustain your position in and amongst your competitors. But don't worry. People might just say "Everything's gonna be alright" on internet messageboards, because you have a new manager to boss your frankly crap residual workforce. Three times over ... over four years.

So ... Clough/whoever says "To achieve this, we need to buy these" and Mr McCabe looks at his list and says, "I don't think so, Brian." Mr Adkins/Clough says "How the fuck do you expect me to motivate a talentless shower of dickwads to beat Brunsmeer Juniors next week in the cup/league/friendly/headers and volleys?"

Mr McCabe looks at his club, looks at the new pitch he has bought and looks at the manager and says, "You'll think of something."

In short, manager goes to chairman who has the money. Manager has transfer targets, chairman has other ideas. Guess who wins?

pommpey

Pommpey, that's your bottom line isn't it?!

Modern managers want to know about next year's players' wage budget and the transfer fund before they discuss their own salary FGS.

That's exactly why we only got Weir when we did and Clough once we got money from the prince.

Think again.

 

[Gibbo89]

One of your better posts Pommpey, at least you had to think a little and come 'off usual message' which you trot out time after time after time.

The difference between us is that I believe supporting the club involves buying a season ticket and backing the team at games whenever provided with the slightest encouragement and never ever booing.

It's being positive about a new manager and hoping he is the one who can turn the tide.

It's about trying to achieve a balance on this forum with positivity when appropriate so that the handful of posters like you do not gain any credibility, particularly amongst younger members who might start to believe you. Our new manager is trying to unite every section of the club and you are trying to foster disunity, indeed anarchy. IMO you are acting just like a Wednesdayite insurgent would if he wanted to cause disharmony amongst us. I'm not saying you are a Wednesdayite but you're acting like a blue and white geeky nerd, tapping away his vitriol whenever there's the slightest setback in S2.

McCabe said a few weeks ago that he was open to offers for his remaining half of the club "to the right buyer". By that he means a suitable buyer who will protect the interests of the club and the fans; he will not do 'a Philip Green' and let us fall into the wrong hands. He admitted mistakes and he coughed up loads of cash to pay off Adkins and his team, having previously paid off Clough and his team. Investment in the club was somewhere well over £8m just to do what we did overall. Bad managerial appointments are expensive and add to the costs and nobody regrets it more than McCabe, but in it's own way shows ambition actually.

At this point in time, as Keen says above in his excellent post, "we are where we are and the club is where it is"" ; it's the only starting point we've got right now.

You feel the need to agitate yet again at a time most people are hoping for unity helped by progress on the pitch. IMO every manager needs a full year to show what his imprint on the club can be and we have a Blade as manager who desperately needs the support of every fan in the attempt to unify the club. What you are doing is working against Chris Wilder and I sense you may even wish for him to fail.

It's not the time to go over and over all your list of things from the past yet again. It's time to back our new manager for a year at least. You're right I did support Clough and Adkins, I also supported Weir actually - it's the thing for a supporter to do when we have a new manager, not what you're doing Pommpey. Wilder has a good budget and he will spend it wisely, I'm sure of that. Let it all unfold and you'll only need to concern yourself with McCabe if the new manager fails. Give us all some space because we all need it.

Try to post about football matters not your obsessions which are not current. By the way if we are top of the league by Xmas it does not absolve McCabe from his past mistakes and mis-management and all those wasted years, we will still be "where we are". He will leave one day but let's be careful what we wish for.

Absolutely spot on and one of the best posts ever. Shame I can only give it one like. Pommpey you're getting more and more like Barney and Len, repeating the same old bile. It's been said enough so why not leave it, at least till they start kicking the ball about again.

 

[Snowman]

Well (hope you are sitting nicely) ....

Like most companies whereby there is an investment fund, the recipient manager of that department approaches the board for a share of that fund, based upon his or her projected requirements in the coming one, three or five financial years. Many times the ambitions will outstrip the available funds and many times the board will disagree with the projections and ambitions and indeed the overall requirements of the managers (or directors, or 'people in charge of that department, whatever phrase is used) Sometimes a nice compromise will take place, whereby phased financial injection and clever project management might see the whole business over the line.

That line for us is obviously 'promotion to the league above, with a view to staying there'. Now if that investment fund has been significantly mis-spent (on say, brand new shithouses and a new coffee machine) rather than on key issues (like say, an expensive, yet versatile and service-free piece of equipment which increases output) then you can imagine the company's returns at the end of the year. Another thing which can shit in your shareholder's chip bag is selling the company's Ford Transit, the forklift, the shelves in the warehouse and the desks in the office and even the only remaining typist who can spel propurlee.

Following me?

So, the nice Mr Weir/Clough/Adkins/Wilson/whoever says to Mr McCabe, "What are this year's objectives, please?" and if it is "Automatic Promotion" you'd think, just like the company mentioned, you'd need decent equipment and staff. Certainly well above what you have at the moment. I mean, sacking more staff is not really the way to recovery is it, particularly when you are at the lowest limit of your talent to sustain your position in and amongst your competitors. But don't worry. People might just say "Everything's gonna be alright" on internet messageboards, because you have a new manager to boss your frankly crap residual workforce. Three times over ... over four years.

So ... Clough/whoever says "To achieve this, we need to buy these" and Mr McCabe looks at his list and says, "I don't think so, Brian." Mr Adkins/Clough says "How the fuck do you expect me to motivate a talentless shower of dickwads to beat Brunsmeer Juniors next week in the cup/league/friendly/headers and volleys?"

Mr McCabe looks at his club, looks at the new pitch he has bought and looks at the manager and says, "You'll think of something."

In short, manager goes to chairman who has the money. Manager has transfer targets, chairman has other ideas. Guess who wins?

pommpey

Yes I understand all that. But if only it were that simple. There is so much in your analysis which could be"picked off" as it is too simplistic. Can I just say I have general sympathy with your view but "chairman has other ideas" covers a multitude of sins. If I was to respond in full there would be half a page if not more of a boring post which, whilst accepting there have been mistakes, does take into account the economic argument McCabe and family have faced. At the end of the day most of it is his money or family/business money and he can spend it how he wants. If it were me, I would be looking for a reasonable balance to ensure promotion whilst not chucking another 8 million (for instance) down the pan which upsets the trustees of the McCabe/Scarborough pension funds. You have no idea of the financial arrangements which underpin the financing of this club as 99% of fans don't.

In short. Chairman will always win. What's your point? "Here's the investment fund. Its empty because some daft bastard spent it (with our assistance). There is no more until you generate it. Sorry. Get on with it". What's he supposed to say. "Well, here we go again. Have a bottomless pit, me and the lads will suck it up no matter what"? Chairman will always win. Who do you think should do? You with your £300 invested?

And yes? Is it his fault that he was advised he could trust someone to spend it and he ended up with the crock of shite he did? Of course it his fault!!!!!. He did what he was supposed to do which is employ " a football man" which was Mal Brannigan. Just get real. he has made a complete cock up of it since the last premiership season, but he has been ably assisted by a complete set of wasters and chancers that he could expect to rely upon (except for Julian Winter).


AAAAAAAAAARRRGGGGHHHH

 

[Woodwardfan]

Yes I understand all that. But if only it were that simple. There is so much in your analysis which could be"picked off" as it is too simplistic. Can I just say I have general sympathy with your view but "chairman has other ideas" covers a multitude of sins. If I was to respond in full there would be half a page if not more of a boring post which, whilst accepting there have been mistakes, does take into account the economic argument McCabe and family have faced. At the end of the day most of it is his money or family/business money and he can spend it how he wants. If it were me, I would be looking for a reasonable balance to ensure promotion whilst not chucking another 8 million (for instance) down the pan which upsets the trustees of the McCabe/Scarborough pension funds. You have no idea of the financial arrangements which underpin the financing of this club as 99% of fans don't.

In short. Chairman will always win. What's your point? "Here's the investment fund. Its empty because some daft bastard spent it (with our assistance). There is no more until you generate it. Sorry. Get on with it". What's he supposed to say. "Well, here we go again. Have a bottomless pit, me and the lads will suck it up no matter what"? Chairman will always win. Who do you think should do? You with your £300 invested?

And yes? Is it his fault that he was advised he could trust someone to spend it and he ended up with the crock of shite he did? Of course it his fault!!!!!. He did what he was supposed to do which is employ " a football man" which was Mal Brannigan. Just get real. he has made a complete cock up of it since the last premiership season, but he has been ably assisted by a complete set of wasters and chancers that he could expect to rely upon (except for Julian Winter).


AAAAAAAAAARRRGGGGHHHH

Trevor Birch was the real culprit, on over £500k p.annum.

Then what did he do, became an Administrator of insolvent companies.

McCabe doesn't only choose bad football managers, he chooses bad M.D's and Chief Execs, that's for sure.

Maybe the man is so, so lucky to be in property right at the right time, so what? Fact is that he has spent his kids' inheritance on our club. Whatever you and I might say about ' pin money' and a 'drop in the ocean for a multi-millionaire', he knows as a Yorkshireman, that he has wasted over £50m already, with no change in fortunes it will be a lot more. It's his kids' money he is spending, not his own, it's money he would never have spent.

 

[spongebobblade]

You actually understand how the transfer thing works in a football club, don't you?

pommpey

Yes. The manager identifies the players he wants. He is responsible if they flop just like he takes the acclaim if the signing is a successful one.
Fuck me if we ran out of bog roll on a match day you'd find a way to blame MacCabe.
I despair