Did our best not to win today

[Ricky]

One thing the players could certainly do without is the confusion and having to work it out for themselves.

This shouldn't be a hard thing to avoid.

 

[Addison]

Wilder keeps getting it wrong late in games.

He (and Knill) need to sort it out because in the last 20 minutes, or 25 yesterday, the players clearly need all the help they can get.

He had reason to change things when he did but with Duffy and Johnson out wide and out of the way Preston started battering us down the flanks without even having to do anything different. They just brought Daniel Johnson on.

The way we went to pot after barely 65 minutes against that Preston team was just ridiculous really.

The last two games have shown us why we'll fall short if big improvements aren't made.

Daniel Johnson made a difference when he came on. The type of player we need to provide cover for Fleck, left footed and crisp passer of the ball. We needed to make a change but not the whole formation which confused the players. If you're going to move Duffy out onto the wing then you may as well bring him off. Our substitutions rarely work and we seem to lose momentum. Clarke was the best of the three simply because we went back to two up top and immediately went up the pitch and scored

 

[Ricky]

Daniel Johnson made a difference when he came on. The type of player we need to provide cover for Fleck, left footed and crisp passer of the ball. We needed to make a change but not the whole formation which confused the players. If you're going to move Duffy out onto the wing then you may as well bring him off. Our substitutions rarely work and we seem to lose momentum. Clarke was the best of the three simply because we went back to two up top and immediately went up the pitch and scored

Johnson was one I was keen on for January but he signed a new contract last month.

He might not be perfect but he'd allow us to replace Fleck or Duffy without changing the way we play.

 

[Dkc]

As others have said, we weren't doing great on 60 minutes. Preston were having more of the possession and bossing midfield. Changes were needed. OK it didn't work but to suggest that all was fine on 60 minutes is incorrect, I think Preston could well have scored if we hadn't made any changes

 

[Fulwood Blade]

My view on the subs was that there was no need to make one.

Yep, can see everyone's reasoning with this - but at 2 nil we shouldn't have been in any danger.

From what CW has said directly and indirectly, it will be a squad game this season, so at 2 nil can see his reasoning too - which is m ore long term and protecting against burn out.

No game midweek, so perhaps our A team v Millwall, but expect 2,3 or 4 changes for Blackburn. Would prefer the A team for Blackburn as we're going across.

Think it's a sign of things to come.

UTB

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

So much vitriol on this thread!

Let me clarify what I, for one, did and didn’t meant by the OP.

I didn’t mean that we REALLY tried not to win. It was, you know, a figure of speech.
I didn’t mean that I thought we were crap.
I didn’t mean, “let’s just focus on the negatives, even, or especially, if we win”.
I didn’t mean, “Wilder out!”
I didn’t mean I wish we’d lost.
I didn’t mean that I think any other team in the division would have managed the situation better than we did.
I didn’t mean the substitutions were badly thought out.
I didn’t mean I wish we’d hoof it.

I did mean that I couldn’t understand why, at 2-0 up, we stopped competing aggressively for the ball, stopped closing down their midfield, sat deep and gave them space to run into, right up to the edge of our box, all without any evident concern, or visible attempts to change this, from the technical area, for the best part of 25 minutes.

I also meant that this change in our play, and the territory we were surrendering as a result, made it visibly possible that Preston might pinch two quick goals to level the game. Admittedly, this was probably easier to see if you were at the match, and could therefore see where spaces were being left, here, there and everywhere, whenever we lost the ball ... as opposed to watching it through where someone else was pointing a camera, or listening to it on a radio. Visually, if you could see the whole pitch, the last 25 mins were quite alarming at times. I guess that forum members following the match from, let’s say, Spain, and having a pop at posters who could actually see this in front of them yesterday afternoon, may not have shared in the palpitations.

More than anything, I meant “We’re quite likely to lose a lead if, when we get a lead, we stop doing what it was that got us that lead in the first place, and, crikey, I wish we wouldn’t do this, it’s not good for my health, or for our chances of doing ourselves full justice this season”.

Oh, and I really enjoyed the game, I thought we played some good stuff, I thought the winner was beautifully crafted, and if that Preston side are deservedly bottom of the division, then the bottom of the division, and the division as a whole, is likely to be a lot stronger this season than it was last year.

Is that positive, and clear, enough?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

So much vitriol on this thread!

Let me clarify what I, for one, did and didn’t meant by the OP.

I didn’t mean that we REALLY tried not to win. It was, you know, a figure of speech.
I didn’t mean that I thought we were crap.
I didn’t mean, “let’s just focus on the negatives, even, or especially, if we win”.
I didn’t mean, “Wilder out!”
I didn’t mean I wish we’d lost.
I didn’t mean that I think any other team in the division would have managed the situation better than we did.
I didn’t mean the substitutions were badly thought out.
I didn’t mean I wish we’d hoof it.

I did mean that I couldn’t understand why, at 2-0 up, we stopped competing aggressively for the ball, stopped closing down their midfield, sat deep and gave them space to run into, right up to the edge of our box, all without any evident concern, or visible attempts to change this, from the technical area, for the best part of 25 minutes.

I also meant that this change in our play, and the territory we were surrendering as a result, made it visibly possible that Preston might pinch two quick goals to level the game. Admittedly, this was probably easier to see if you were at the match, and could therefore see where spaces were being left, here, there and everywhere, whenever we lost the ball ... as opposed to watching it through where someone else was pointing a camera, or listening to it on a radio. Visually, if you could see the whole pitch, the last 25 mins were quite alarming at times. I guess that forum members following the match from, let’s say, Spain, and having a pop at posters who could actually see this in front of them yesterday afternoon, may not have shared in the palpitations.

More than anything, I meant “We’re quite likely to lose a lead if, when we get a lead, we stop doing what it was that got us that lead in the first place, and, crikey, I wish we wouldn’t do this, it’s not good for my health, or for our chances of doing ourselves full justice this season”.

Oh, and I really enjoyed the game, I thought we played some good stuff, I thought the winner was beautifully crafted, and if that Preston side are deservedly bottom of the division, then the bottom of the division, and the division as a whole, is likely to be a lot stronger this season than it was last year.

Is that positive, and clear, enough?

Don't try and back now, yer bastard!

 

[snootyfenooty]

So much vitriol on this thread!

Let me clarify what I, for one, did and didn’t meant by the OP.

I didn’t mean that we REALLY tried not to win. It was, you know, a figure of speech.
I didn’t mean that I thought we were crap.
I didn’t mean, “let’s just focus on the negatives, even, or especially, if we win”.
I didn’t mean, “Wilder out!”
I didn’t mean I wish we’d lost.
I didn’t mean that I think any other team in the division would have managed the situation better than we did.
I didn’t mean the substitutions were badly thought out.
I didn’t mean I wish we’d hoof it.

I did mean that I couldn’t understand why, at 2-0 up, we stopped competing aggressively for the ball, stopped closing down their midfield, sat deep and gave them space to run into, right up to the edge of our box, all without any evident concern, or visible attempts to change this, from the technical area, for the best part of 25 minutes.

I also meant that this change in our play, and the territory we were surrendering as a result, made it visibly possible that Preston might pinch two quick goals to level the game. Admittedly, this was probably easier to see if you were at the match, and could therefore see where spaces were being left, here, there and everywhere, whenever we lost the ball ... as opposed to watching it through where someone else was pointing a camera, or listening to it on a radio. Visually, if you could see the whole pitch, the last 25 mins were quite alarming at times. I guess that forum members following the match from, let’s say, Spain, and having a pop at posters who could actually see this in front of them yesterday afternoon, may not have shared in the palpitations.

More than anything, I meant “We’re quite likely to lose a lead if, when we get a lead, we stop doing what it was that got us that lead in the first place, and, crikey, I wish we wouldn’t do this, it’s not good for my health, or for our chances of doing ourselves full justice this season”.

Oh, and I really enjoyed the game, I thought we played some good stuff, I thought the winner was beautifully crafted, and if that Preston side are deservedly bottom of the division, then the bottom of the division, and the division as a whole, is likely to be a lot stronger this season than it was last year.

Is that positive, and clear, enough?

Can't fool me. It's because you hate Wilder, Sharp and Lundstram and have an agenda.

 

[blade too long]

You're a propagandist.

It's getting to that time of the season where you tell everyone there's no reason why we can't finish top two, and get uppity when people think you're getting carried away..

our chances of top 2 are slim , but theres every chance of 4th to 6th based purely on resourses
I may be under estimating our capabilities , seen very few consistantly better
boros hit 2 blanks of late leeds are stumbling
propagandists are those that belittle our worth at every opportunity

with what weve had to work with we are surprising ourselves

 

[Iceybabey]

Good observation - my boy noticed the same - he also said we went back to 3 at the back at 2-2.

We can I suppose question why we went to 4-5-1, but well done the the management and players in being able to change it again and then step up to win the game.

UTB

For me, it seemed we was slowly loosing more and more control in midfield due to Preston's changes. From what I saw it looked as though Preston put three up top right up against our back three to press and to stop us moving the ball side to side. This affected our whole game and Preston started to get a strong foot in midfield. CW changed it and put Bash in front of a back four, with Fleck LCM and Norwood RCM, Duffy on the right and Johnson on the left-
this summer Wilder has brought people in who bring specific attributes to the table and I mentioned in a previous post about how likely we are to see changes in our shape during games and Bash in midfield and Johnson as a winger were the main points I made.

Anyway, I believe Wilder made the changes to wrestle back control in midfield with Bash in their to be an enforcer as well as protect the back four. The changes didn't work and the players struggled to make it work. Personally, I would have thrown Lunny in for Duffy and gone with three in the middle. I think we went straight back to our usual formation straight from kick off after conceding and credit to the team we got what we deserved in the end.

 

[Bergen Blade]

For me, it seemed we was slowly loosing more and more control in midfield due to Preston's changes. From what I saw it looked as though Preston put three up top right up against our back three to press and to stop us moving the ball side to side. This affected our whole game and Preston started to get a strong foot in midfield. CW changed it and put Bash in front of a back four, with Fleck LCM and Norwood RCM, Duffy on the right and Johnson on the left-
this summer Wilder has brought people in who bring specific attributes to the table and I mentioned in a previous post about how likely we are to see changes in our shape during games and Bash in midfield and Johnson as a winger were the main points I made.

Anyway, I believe Wilder made the changes to wrestle back control in midfield with Bash in their to be an enforcer as well as protect the back four. The changes didn't work and the players struggled to make it work. Personally, I would have thrown Lunny in for Duffy and gone with three in the middle. I think we went straight back to our usual formation straight from kick off after conceding and credit to the team we got what we deserved in the end.

Both Preston's goals came following overlapping runs from their full backs, first down our left, then down our right. On each occasion our central midfield went missing and Duffy twice failed to compensate, meaning our full backs were exposed.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

It also showed that Enda Stevens is a better player than many like to believe.

competition is the answer, and he didn't play Wednesday.

UTB

 

[Revolution]

Yep, can see everyone's reasoning with this - but at 2 nil we shouldn't have been in any danger.

From what CW has said directly and indirectly, it will be a squad game this season, so at 2 nil can see his reasoning too - which is m ore long term and protecting against burn out.

No game midweek, so perhaps our A team v Millwall, but expect 2,3 or 4 changes for Blackburn. Would prefer the A team for Blackburn as we're going across.

Think it's a sign of things to come.

UTB

I think you are right, but we do not have a good enough squad to be taking our first XI - which is basically the team that started Saturday and against Villa - and removing 4 players at a time from it like we did against Birmingham.

Injuries and suspensions will happen (Norwood is a cert to get 5 yellow cards at some point) and will allow for changes. There is also scope for one or two changes here and there if you want to rotate. But switches like we saw against Birmingham do not seem to be desirable on the basis of form shown recently by backup players.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I think you are right, but we do not have a good enough squad to be taking our first XI - which is basically the team that started Saturday and against Villa - and removing 4 players at a time from it like we did against Birmingham.

Injuries and suspensions will happen (Norwood is a cert to get 5 yellow cards at some point) and will allow for changes. There is also scope for one or two changes here and there if you want to rotate. But switches like we saw against Birmingham do not seem to be desirable on the basis of form shown recently by backup players.

I totally agree our A team can beat every single team in this division, but think back to when we played Hull on Sky in February.

It was dire, just totally unlike how we could play and he said afterwards that "our legs had gone and we were running on empty". The problem I believe was he thought the lack of investment in August and the JTW had thwarted our chances and the JTW signings just weren't good enough to make a real difference - particularly Holmes and Leonard.

As a prime example - Stevens has stepped up this season (and well done to him) and he didn't play on Wednesday - but it was his involvement in the 87th minute that created the winner. It's small margins at the top of every division, and some of us are believing it will be very very tight this season.

Just think we are going to have to get used to changes and it's up to the management to "control" the changes. Birmingham was a bit of an experiment, but seeing how well they did against Leeds (even with limited possession) shows they may well be in a false position, so a draw may have been a good result.

We just need to manage our players well - even Billy looks really sharp (pun) and glad to see at last that Clark can be substituted as happened v Birmingham.

Our management seem more confident in this division this season and for me we won't blow up this season. Signs are looking very good for an assault on top 6.

UTB

 

[mattbianco1]

Daniel Johnson changed the game for them. Once he came on they started passing the ball about quite well. It was around 10 minutes later that Wilder decided to change it up because of this new found game plan that Preston had (he brought Marvin Johnson on for Sharp on 74). This was to give us an extra body in midfield so has not to let them get a foothold in the game.

And we kind of went to this formation:

Henderson
Freeman Egan O'Connell Stevens
Basham
Duffy Norwood Fleck Johnson
McGoldrick​

Unfortunately, out of nowhere, they smashed 2 in against the run of play. This then forced Wilder to make a switch back to two up top by bringing Duffy off for Clarke. And within two minutes, we'd scored.

It struck me as like the Bristol City game last December - we went down to 10-men but continued to press and that ultimately cost us a point from the game. Some questioned that decision and said we should sometimes just take what's on offer rather than go for the kill constantly.
The Preston game was total opposite. Wilder tried to hold onto what we had because Preston were coming in to the game. If we hadn't let those goals in, Wilder would have been applauded for taking off Sharp to firm up midfield - i think the latest saying is "Game Management". Unfortunately for us, their Johnson was better than our Johnson and controlled the midfield when he came on. For me, we would have been better putting Lundstram or Stearman on (with Basham in midfield if the latter was chose), so like this:

Henderson
Freeman Stearman Egan O'Connell Stevens
Basham Norwood Fleck
Duffy
McGoldrick

or

Henderson
Freeman Basham Egan O'Connell Stevens
Lundstram Norwood Fleck
Duffy
McGoldrick
​

I think they would've been better options than Johnson. But i'm just a fan, what do i know.

 

[Eric Cartman]

We were starting to lose the midfield before we made changes. If Wilder hadn't done anything he'd been severely criticised. The changes were decent in theory, he had to strengthen the midfield, but the players weren't able to adapt/stop the sloppiness.

In hindsight I think Lundstram for Duffy and Washington for Sharp would have sufficed, but Wilder may have been reluctant to throw on Lundstram following some criticism + that interview the other day? Moving Basham into midfield is something that's worked before though.

You don't solidify the midfield by putting a winger on for a striker and confuse everyone.
You solidify the midfield by bringing Stearman on and pushing Basham into midfield. It works, it's worked before, it doesn't confuse anyone and gives everyone a job to do.

The good thing is we'll never see that sub again.

 

[Iceybabey]

Both Preston's goals came following overlapping runs from their full backs, first down our left, then down our right. On each occasion our central midfield went missing and Duffy twice failed to compensate, meaning our full backs were exposed.

That's why Duffy was soo pissed off when he came off.

 

[Maidenhead]

No you are insinuating that I want Wilder out. We are allowed to criticise you know it doesn’t mean we are having a meltdown does it? Losing the two goal lead was down to poor management, yes, but it doesn’t mean I don’t think Wilder is a great manager.

I genuinely don’t think you understand the difference between constructive criticism and slagging the team off, because there is a massive difference. We are discussing this one game not the whole season, or Wilder’s reign as a whole.

I agree we’ve done well to win it in the end, but we got out of jail massively

So you think Wilder told Stevens to charge out and take JOC's man, leaving a PNE player in behind, where he should have been, for the first goal?

Very similarly for the 2nd two defenders (I'm not sure who they were) came charging out at the ball leaving a PNE player in behind to cross the ball into a dangerous area.

For a couple of minutes our defenders were like schoolboys chasing the ball, I actually commented on it at the time just before the second goal, but somehow that's Wilder's fault?

 

[BettingBlade]

So you think Wilder told Stevens to charge out and take JOC's man, leaving a PNE player in behind, where he should have been, for the first goal?

Very similarly for the 2nd two defenders (I'm not sure who they were) came charging out at the ball leaving a PNE player in behind to cross the ball into a dangerous area.

For a couple of minutes our defenders were like schoolboys chasing the ball, I actually commented on it at the time just before the second goal, but somehow that's Wilder's fault?

It’s because they were getting no protection from the midfield. Once Wilder switched it around no one in midfield actually knew where they were supposed to be hence Preston were able to start to play through us. Leaving us exposed

 

[Maidenhead]

It’s because they were getting no protection from the midfield. Once Wilder switched it around no one in midfield actually knew where they were supposed to be hence Preston were able to start to play through us. Leaving us exposed

How much protection do you want on the edge of our own box?

2 players each made 1 bad decision and both times it cost us.

If no player ever made a defensive mistake then there would be very few goals in the game.

You may notice that our 3rd came in a very similar way from a ball inside a ball watching full back.

Alex Neil's fault?

 

[BettingBlade]

How much protection do you want on the edge of our own box?

2 players each made 1 bad decision and both times it cost us.

If no player ever made a defensive mistake then there would be very few goals in the game.

You may notice that our 3rd came in a very similar way from a ball inside a ball watching full back.

Alex Neil's fault?

The reason that happened is because ordinarily a midfielder would tuck in to double up on the man with the ball meaning the centre half can cover the space in behind should an overlapping run be made.

Because we had lost that extra man in midfield it meant there was more space in the middle of the pitch meaning we didn’t have as much control over it which Preston exploited. We controlled the midfield all game until we made the changes.

Clearly we aren’t used to playing that way and unfortunately in those situations players have to make that decision of whether to stay or go. We probably could have defended it better yes but it looked like most players were confused by the system.

 

[Grecian2000]

Great thread this.

I'm seriously impressed that we have a "newbie" on board whose never crossed swords with BTL before. Quality stuff.

Made doubly pleasing by Pinchy going into serious stereo typical mode. Not often he can get in a dig at Billy ("Sycophantic Bladey drivel. The goal was all about Freeman and Goldie but we convert it into yet another Sharp glorification"), make up some guff about supporters wanting us to fail ("Many of them will have been heartily disappointed at our superbly crafted winner") AND accusing a poster of wanting "Hoof" because he says we over passed a bit ("If you want a little bit of hoof, at least have the misguided courage to say so rather than resorting to euphemisms") all in a fabulous hour of bollocks.