Did our best not to win today

[BettingBlade]

as do all managers , pep guardiola got it wrong v Lyon midweek
sack him hes shit

Where have I said we should sack Wilder?

 

[Pinchy]

Apologies for posting late, i've had a torrid six hours in an S&M dungeon in Attercliffe, I'd forgotten the safe word and have been made a mess of. My arse is in absolute ribbons, and I've only just recovered the use of my right hand.

Today we have won despite CW, his substitutions again were awful & his change of shape added to our woe. He has to learn from this. We were also guilty of over passing, Norwood sitting too deep & a reluctance to deliver 1st or 2nd time. A trend is developing & needs to be nipped in the bud.

No apology required. You’d have been better off staying there than contributing this drivel. If you want a little bit of hoof, at least have the misguided courage to say so rather than resorting to euphemisms.

 

[BettingBlade]

They don’t, of course. It’s the sort of daft comment we get on here when we lapse from the perfection expected in every game. We are not permitted to lose (as all clubs, even the very best do) or even concede a goal without a display of self-entitled indignation.

No ones actually said that but do carry on twisting people’s words if it makes you feel more self-important.

 

[Pinchy]

Unrelated to this but I'll say it anyway, his goal was a peach, pure Billy. They were playing a line of 10 across the box or massed in the box yet he manages to find both10 yards of space and be on the end of the pass. Simple tap-in but pure genius.

Sycophantic Bladey drivel. The goal was all about Freeman and Goldie but we convert it into yet another Sharp glorification.

Tufty was absolutely right to take off both Sharp and Duffy. They routinely fade after about seventy minutes.

Dear, oh Bladey dear.

 

[Topplayersleave]

It wouldn't be United to do things the simple way would it

Even during the Villa game, for a few minutes after they'd pulled it back to 4-1 I fully expected a 4-4 draw

 

[Pinchy]

No ones actually said that but do carry on twisting people’s words if it makes you feel more self-important.

You describe a perfectly valid point made by BTL as pointless because it doesn’t suit your argument, then make a near identical point yourself, then accuse me of twisting words?

“Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.”

Lewis Carroll.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

why are we concentrating on them pulling 2 back and ignoring us sucking it up÷
then having the character to win it all over again

a game we lost last season
but lets all focus on the negatives as usual

Good post and my thoughts exactly ,
moved up a gear and win it again

 

[blade too long]

Where have I said we should sack Wilder?

I was advocating sacking Guardiola , spent all that money and lost at home

 

[BettingBlade]

You describe a perfectly valid point made by BTL as pointless because it doesn’t suit your argument, then make a near identical point yourself, then accuse me of twisting words?

“Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.”

Lewis Carroll.

That’s nice

 

[BettingBlade]

I was advocating sacking Guardiola , spent all that money and lost at home

Well, that makes you a moron then

 

[blade too long]

some seem to be of the view that Preston should not have the audacity to try and get back in a game after being so poor
but football has cliches for a reason

a game of 2 halves, come back from the dead, found their mojo , got into their stride.
yes they were flat for most of the game , but its never ever over till susan boyle sings

 

[blade too long]

Well, that makes you a moron then

why
its based on the fact managers make mistakes
we win and Wilder apparently has made lots of errors
he lost the plot
surely losing at home is more heanous , off with his head

your assessment of Wilder to me looks as daft as me calling for Guardiola to be sacked

we are all human , mistakes are part of life

 

[BettingBlade]

why
its based on the fact managers make mistakes
we win and Wilder apparently has made lots of errors
he lost the plot
surely losing at home is more heanous , off with his head

Once again your making things up that I haven’t said. You’ve taken legitimate points and twisted them to make it look like a meltdown just so you can be the self-righteous bigger Blade.

Maybe if you were a bit less childish you might be capable of engaging in a decent discussion.

 

[BettingBlade]

some seem to be of the view that Preston should not have the audacity to try and get back in a game after being so poor
but football has cliches for a reason

a game of 2 halves, come back from the dead, found their mojo , got into their stride.
yes they were flat for most of the game , but its never ever over till susan boyle sings

We are allowed to try and stop them though. You seem to have the view that we don’t have any control over what we do in a game.

They weren’t a good side and we allowed them back in. Them getting back in it was easily preventable. That’s the whole point of this thread.

 

[blade too long]

Once again your making things up that I haven’t said. You’ve taken legitimate points and twisted them to make it look like a meltdown just so you can be the self-righteous bigger Blade.

Maybe if you were a bit less childish you might be capable of engaging in a decent discussion.

so youve not said us blowing a 2 goal lead was down to mistakes of judgement
if thats the case Im sorry
did our best not to win today , sounds like criticism to me
when we played the full 90 to do just that ,,, win, as the late winner showed

if its childish to back the players and manager for showing character to win it ,,, guilty

 

[blade too long]

We are allowed to try and stop them though. You seem to have the view that we don’t have any control over what we do in a game.

They weren’t a good side and we allowed them back in. Them getting back in it was easily preventable. That’s the whole point of this thread.

easily peventable
really , so youve played at professional level
preston are a capable team , won here in April fair and square, , Id expect them to play a part in any game
Im sure their manager will, hed be in trouble if they put no effort in at all in 90 minutes
teams go on about good game management , when theyve actually won

leeds lost 0/2 at home to preston in the league cup so they didnt crush them did they

 

[BettingBlade]

so youve not said us blowing a 2 goal lead was down to mistakes of judgement
if thats the case Im sorry
did our best not to win today , sounds like criticism to me
when we played the full 90 to do just that ,,, win, as the late winner showed

if its childish to back the players and manager for showing character to win it ,,, guilty

No you are insinuating that I want Wilder out. We are allowed to criticise you know it doesn’t mean we are having a meltdown does it? Losing the two goal lead was down to poor management, yes, but it doesn’t mean I don’t think Wilder is a great manager.

I genuinely don’t think you understand the difference between constructive criticism and slagging the team off, because there is a massive difference. We are discussing this one game not the whole season, or Wilder’s reign as a whole.

I agree we’ve done well to win it in the end, but we got out of jail massively

 

[BettingBlade]

easily peventable
really , so youve played at professional level
preston are a capable team , won here in April fair and square, , Id expect them to play a part in any game
Im sure their manager will, hed be in trouble if they put no effort in at all in 90 minutes
teams go on about good game management , when theyve actually won

If you had to have played professional football to comment on it then this forum would be pointless and your argument would be just as invalid as mine.

Preston, were categorically not in the game at all until we changed shape and stopped doing the good things that we were doing. It didn’t need to be changed because we were hurting Preston the way we were set up.

With better subs, if we’d have gone like for like when taking off Sharp and Duffy for example, PNE wouldn’t have got anywhere near us. I’d have liked to have seen Woodburn on to see if he could get some confidence back. I’m glad Clarke came on as he needs the minutes too. Bringing Johnson on for Sharp was just bizarre at that time in the game

 

[blade too long]

Preston, were categorically not in the game at all until we changed shape and stopped doing the good things that we were doing. It didn’t need to be changed because we were hurting Preston the way we were set up.

so youve never in your time watching football have never seen a side being out played come to life before

they scored a consolation goal then just out of waking up and having a go at last got a lucky deflection
must have seen it a 1000 times in 50 years of watching
just gob smacked you think its impossible for a team to come to life after being crap


have you never ever seen us play shite , then finally put in a bit of effort
I can name 300 games off the top of my head where we only played for 15 minutes
and some we got results from

 

[Davalon]

thats their job , not ours
thats the crux of the matter
no scapegoating , they wont say its because we brought Clarke on
weve come back into games after being 2 down nd playing shite
but football will always be full of games like this,

Had we not upped it again and won thered be a problem
but over the 90 we won , by right despite errors
and the day we eradicate all errors is the year we win the champions leaguwe

Propaganda.

Fans have every right to discuss a performance and where they think it could have been better.

For 20 minutes second half it's the first time I've genuinely questioned Wilder's management.

That doesn't mean I wasn't delighted with the win or that I enjoy being negative.

 

[BettingBlade]

so youve never in your time watching football have never seen a side being out played come to life before

they scored a consolation goal then just out of waking up and having a go at last got a lucky deflection
must have seen it a 1000 times in 50 years of watching
just gob smacked you think its impossible for a team to come to life after being crap


have you never ever seen us play shite , then finally put in a bit of effort
I can name 300 games off the top of my head where we only played for 15 minutes
and some we got results from

BUT THAT ONLY HAPPENED WHEN WE CHANGED OUR SHAPE!!!

Jesus fucking Christ. I’m going to stop replying now because you clearly cannot read or you are just refusing to try and comprehend what I’m saying.

They probably could have come to life earlier but we were doing a very good job of not allowing them to. You know which is kind of what football is all about, stopping the other team from getting going and all. Once we changed the shape and made the subs we invited the pressure.

We’re going round in circles now. You have your opinion and I have mine.

 

[blade too long]

With better subs, if we’d have gone like for like when taking off Sharp and Duffy for example, PNE wouldn’t have got anywhere near us. I’d have liked to have seen Woodburn on to see if he could get some confidence back. I’m glad Clarke came on as he needs the minutes too. Bringing Johnson on for Sharp was just bizarre at that time in the game

now thats a point
you said Wilders subs were bizzare , but your advocating putting on a player lacking confidence , surely that would have been risky
.
All subs are calculated risks , when they work woohhoo
if teams score against you , your a clutz

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

No apology required. You’d have been better off staying there than contributing this drivel. If you want a little bit of hoof, at least have the misguided courage to say so rather than resorting to euphemisms.

My post had nothing to do with hoof and didn't use euphemisms.

As I've previously posted, I thought at times last season, we seemed to over pass the ball, commonly involving 5 men in a move, when 3 would have been more advantageous. Moving the ball from RCB out towards LWB for example. We seemed to play safe, and that was possibly due to the personnel we employed and the limitations of their passing range. Against Villa our passing was fast, incisive and positive and done in the right areas, shots were quickly taken and crosses/through balls made at the right time. A joy to watch, an absolute joy to watch. I thought the obvious reason was the signing of Norwood, and his more expansive range of passing & superior technical ability. Against Birmingham there were shades of it returning, and yesterday there were also shades of it returning. It may be my eyes deceiving me, but I thought Norwood appeared to be slightly more withdrawn in both games. Yesterday, square and backwards passing became more prevalent as the game progressed. It's not lazy play per se, just easier/safer play. You could argue that outlets for other passes were being cut out by Preston, it might have been a bit of both.

Regarding the quicker delivery of the ball, there were a number of occasion in the 1st half particularly were be broke onto the edge of the Preston box and checked back, and checked back again. Duffy seemed the main culprit. There were times when we were evens against them, and they're out of shape, Duffy's breaking towards the box on the angle, drops the shoulder shifts it, creates a yard, and then cuts back again. He's created a great opportunity to either shoot or pass,and does neither. Preston regroup, go back into their lines and the moment is lost. It also seems to attract a forward out of the box, and involve themselves then in a triangle of passing between the midfielder and the wing back. Also the WB needs the ball to run onto and whip a cross in, once he's passed the CM and stationary and you pass him the ball, 9 times out of 10 he knocks it back down the line to where its come from. That's got nothing to do with hoof ball, it's a habit that caused frustration last season, and I don't want to see it return.

*Edit: My 5 men over passing refers to us attacking as opposed to retaining possession, which i appreciate the need to do at points in a game.

 

[blade too long]

Propaganda.

Fans have every right to discuss a performance and where they think it could have been better.

For 20 minutes second half it's the first time I've genuinely questioned Wilder's management.

That doesn't mean I wasn't delighted with the win or that I enjoy being negative.

youve questioned his management for putting on johnson for sharp
2/0 up save sharp a bit for next week
hardly an unusual swop
perhaps he trusts his players too much

how about putting on Clarke to over run their defence to pull it apart for the winner , giving Edna room

genius management

 

[BettingBlade]

now thats a point
you said Wilders subs were bizzare , but your advocating putting on a player lacking confidence , surely that would have been risky
.
All subs are calculated risks , when they work woohhoo
if teams score against you , your a clutz

Making a like for like sub is massively different from changing the entire formation to the point where players haven’t got a fucking clue where they are playing.

At that time the game was relatively low risk because Preston didn’t look like getting back in the game at that time. We could have put someone like Woodburn on and just told him to go and try and get on the ball and make something happen and it wouldn’t have made a difference because Duffy was knackered anyway and he would have injected some pace against a side who’s two clogger centre halves wouldnt have been able to cope with.

 

[BettingBlade]

Propaganda.

Fans have every right to discuss a performance and where they think it could have been better.

For 20 minutes second half it's the first time I've genuinely questioned Wilder's management.

That doesn't mean I wasn't delighted with the win or that I enjoy being negative.

You won’t get through to him mate. Apparently we’re supposed to happy clap our way through the season and not be concerned about silly little things like allowing a poor side, who weren’t creating anything, back into a game that was effectively finished.

We can’t say anything negative about Wilder as constructive or legitimate as it might be

 

[Ricky]

Wilder keeps getting it wrong late in games.

He (and Knill) need to sort it out because in the last 20 minutes, or 25 yesterday, the players clearly need all the help they can get.

He had reason to change things when he did but with Duffy and Johnson out wide and out of the way Preston started battering us down the flanks without even having to do anything different. They just brought Daniel Johnson on.

The way we went to pot after barely 65 minutes against that Preston team was just ridiculous really.

The last two games have shown us why we'll fall short if big improvements aren't made.

 

[Davalon]

youve questioned his management for putting on johnson for sharp
2/0 up save sharp a bit for next week
hardly an unusual swop
perhaps he trusts his players too much

how about putting on Clarke to over run their defence to pull it apart for the winner , giving Edna room

genius management

You're a propagandist.

It's getting to that time of the season where you tell everyone there's no reason why we can't finish top two, and get uppity when people think you're getting carried away.

I think wel

You won’t get through to him mate. Apparently we’re supposed to happy clap our way through the season and not be concerned about silly little things like allowing a poor side, who weren’t creating anything, back into a game that was effectively finished.

We can’t say anything negative about Wilder as constructive or legitimate as it might be

I don't have a problem with people preferring to be positive but I think some can't wait to jump on anything they can brand negative.

I had a dig at someone the other night for slagging Norwood off as I thought it was unfair and out of order the way they did it.

I fully expected plenty of people to comment on much of the second half yesterday, and think it's perfectly normal and understandable.

The main positive for me is that last season doing that we'd have ended up with 1 point if we were lucky. Likewise I think we'd have lost to Brum too.

Any long term football supporters know that fans will dissect performances. We may not all agree on the dissections obviously but a few on here seem to want a North Korean state forum.

 

[Birdwell Blade]

Wilder keeps getting it wrong late in games.

He (and Knill) need to sort it out because in the last 20 minutes, or 25 yesterday, the players clearly need all the help they can get.

He had reason to change things when he did but with Duffy and Johnson out wide and out of the way Preston started battering us down the flanks without even having to do anything different. They just brought Daniel Johnson on.

The way we went to pot after barely 65 minutes against that Preston team was just ridiculous really.

The last two games have shown us why we'll fall short if big improvements aren't made.

Good post and gets the thread back on topic, away from the sissy namecalling.

I couldn’t go yesterday so forgive me if I’m wide of the mark, but all those I spoke to last night said the same, in that the changes seemed a bit bizarre and contributed to us conceding. I don’t think it’s the first time that either a) wilder/knill have got it wrong or b) the players haven’t responded well/done what they’ve been asked to do. Might be a bit of both.

The more important point is, whilst Wilder & Knill are not above criticism, they have a great track record of righting wrongs and turning things around. They do a lot more good than bad.

 

[robbiez666]

To me, it looked quite clear after about 55-60 minutes that midfield and attack were looking leggy. I was shocked no sub happened around 60 minutes as it was clear we'd lost the legs to press them deep and we ended up going longer as the midfield.

Duffy looked shattered and obviously should have come off earlier. The obvious replacement would have been Lundstram (if he'd wanted to shut up shop) or Woodburn (if he'd wanted to try and keep at them). Norwood also looked tired to me and became less and less effectual and stopped dropping deep to pick the ball up. Fleck tried to help but also looked tired. We'd completely lost the midfield by 65 minutes and the strikers then became ineffective due to the way we were playing.

I'd have brought Stearman on and pushed Bash into midfield (for the legs) for Normwood and Lundstram for Duffy. Taken one of the strikers off for Washington. Tried to stretch the play at their end.