David Brooks - Sky Sports Article

[Sothall_Blade]

In all this talk of growth spurts and getting bigger, in the back of my mind is a wonder whether Brooks will 'do a Ronaldo'.

 

[Sean Thornton]

How do you know this? Do you work in football? Because everyone I’ve heard talking about it, who do work in the game, say it’s folly to try to keep players who want to leave, the best a club can do is to ‘convince’ them by offering them a new, much bigger contract, like Villa had to with Grealish.

Maybe we could have got him to stay for another year by giving him a decent pay rise but maybe Wilder thought the money would be better spent elsewhere.

The bottom line is we either find an owner who’s prepared to fund a promotion challenge or we keep having to sell players to provide the funding. Obviously the former is vastly preferable but that’s not where we are right now.

Irrespective, due to the boardroom dispute and historic losses, we needed the money.

A point conveniently forgotten by the Money Tree disciples who know how to run a football club turning over millions but losing them at the same time.

Is it a shite position to be in? - of course.

But that's the reality, no matter what inflated values we put on players now or in the "if he stayed" future.

Having an opinion on here costs us as posters absolutely nothing, because it's not the real world.

 

[Sean Thornton]

And there's a subtle difference between the sides. BushBlade talks in "maybes" as in "if he stayed another year" whereas some on the other side of the argument tend to almost guarantee their opinion or projection will come true.

Quite telling really.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Isn't that exactly what happened with Hirst the younger over in S6? Wilder has repeatedly made it clear that he is only interested in players who really want to be here.

Not really, Hirst never made an impact in the first team at the point Leicester showed interest. Not every player is the same either.

I know first hand about this situation anyway. Hirst basically didn't get a chance in the first team and was running out of contract, Wednesday wanted him to sign a new one on similar wages, his dad wanted assurances about him being in the first team squad and wages befitting that. Wednesday refused and banned him from featuring, or more so Chansiri did. So he couldn't prove he was worth it even if he wanted to.

 

[BushBlade]

Irrespective, due to the boardroom dispute and historic losses, we needed the money.

A point conveniently forgotten by the Money Tree disciples who know how to run a football club turning over millions but losing them at the same time.

Is it a shite position to be in? - of course.

But that's the reality, no matter what inflated values we put on players now or in the "if he stayed" future.

Having an opinion on here costs us as posters absolutely nothing, because it's not the real world.

The championship is frustrating. It’s full of clubs like us that could easily be in the PL but somehow can’t get there. And we sit and watch other clubs like Wolves who make it look easy and think ‘why can’t we just fucking do that?’

But going over old ground time and time again does no one any good. By supporting a club, you’re living vicariously. You’re trusting your emotions to people you have no influence over. And a lot of the time, you’ll get let down. Even Man U fans, who probably thought they’d dominate forever, have found this out. Why the fuck do people want to keep reliving the disappointing bits?

 

[Eric Cartman]

How do you know this? Do you work in football? Because everyone I’ve heard talking about it, who do work in the game, say it’s folly to try to keep players who want to leave, the best a club can do is to ‘convince’ them by offering them a new, much bigger contract, like Villa had to with Grealish.

Maybe we could have got him to stay for another year by giving him a decent pay rise but maybe Wilder thought the money would be better spent elsewhere.

The bottom line is we either find an owner who’s prepared to fund a promotion challenge or we keep having to sell players to provide the funding. Obviously the former is vastly preferable but that’s not where we are right now.

How do you know otherwise? Do you work in football?

Wednesday didn't suffer by not getting rid of Foresteri when he wanted to leave. Liverpool didn't suffer by keeping Suarez for an extra season. Blackburn haven't suffered by not selling Dack to WBA on deadline day.

These are just 3 examples without doing any digging at all of players who've carried on where they left off or even improved after having bids rejected despite being interested in moving away.

 

[Revolution]

I think the problem is taking the words of clubs, owners, directors and managers too literally at times, and imagining figures that aren't mentioned.

The Golden Rule - ignore what United say, watch what they do.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The Golden Rule - ignore what United say, watch what they do.

Exactly. Which leads to the question, why do some people seem very surprised, even when they've correctly predicted the outcome?

I mean, it's not as if it never happened before McCabe.

 

[Dronfield Blade]

If we get promoted sign him back up. The rumoured “50% sell on fee” gives us a fantastic advantage in a bidding war .

 

[BushBlade]

How do you know otherwise? Do you work in football?

Wednesday didn't suffer by not getting rid of Foresteri when he wanted to leave. Liverpool didn't suffer by keeping Suarez for an extra season. Blackburn haven't suffered by not selling Dack to WBA on deadline day.

These are just 3 examples without doing any digging at all of players who've carried on where they left off or even improved after having bids rejected despite being interested in moving away.

I’m not sure about Dack but Forestieri was given a large contract, as was Suarez. Neither worked out particularly well. Dack has only re-emerged this season. No one was interested beforehand as he was seen as fat and lazy.

But I already covered this in my previous post, maybe we could have got him to stay by paying him more, maybe Wilder thought he’d rather have the transfer fee.

 

[Sean Thornton]

How do you know otherwise? Do you work in football?

Wednesday didn't suffer by not getting rid of Foresteri when he wanted to leave. Liverpool didn't suffer by keeping Suarez for an extra season. Blackburn haven't suffered by not selling Dack to WBA on deadline day.

These are just 3 examples without doing any digging at all of players who've carried on where they left off or even improved after having bids rejected despite being interested in moving away.

I'd say keeping Forestfairy hasn't done the Pigs any good at all.

 

[Revolution]

I’m not sure about Dack but Forestieri was given a large contract, as was Suarez. Neither worked out particularly well. Dack has only re-emerged this season. No one was interested beforehand as he was seen as fat and lazy.

But I already covered this in my previous post, maybe we could have got him to stay by paying him more, maybe Wilder thought he’d rather have the transfer fee.

Didn't Dack get something like 35 goals and assists combined last season?

 

[grafikhaus]

We'll sell again, don't know where, don't know when,
But I know we'll sell again some sunny day.

We always do.

We cannot hold onto to good players for long.

As said every football club, ever. It was the only offer on the table and was good money. Of course he looks better now because he's surrounded by far better players and his talents will be wasted in the Welsh team.

Norwich fans will no doubt say they 'gave James Maddison away at £20m' when somebody like Man. City of Liverpool pay around £70m for him and he's an England regular.

The championship is frustrating. It’s full of clubs like us that could easily be in the PL but somehow can’t get there. And we sit and watch other clubs like Wolves who make it look easy and think ‘why can’t we just fucking do that?’

A takeover by Fosun International (value £170bn) might help?

This is what McCabe is up against.

 

[BushBlade]

Didn't Dack get something like 35 goals and assists combined last season?

Yes, in L1. I’m not aware of any PL interest in him last season.

 

[Eric Cartman]

I’m not sure about Dack but Forestieri was given a large contract, as was Suarez. Neither worked out particularly well. Dack has only re-emerged this season. No one was interested beforehand as he was seen as fat and lazy.

But I already covered this in my previous post, maybe we could have got him to stay by paying him more, maybe Wilder thought he’d rather have the transfer fee.

The bid for Dack was rejected in the summer so I'd argue that completely.

 

[Eric Cartman]

I'd say keeping Forestfairy hasn't done the Pigs any good at all.

Well they finished in the play offs when they wouldn't have without him so it wasn't that bad.

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

People seem the be forgetting the timeline, as though it’s “back to the future”.

Some people have this logic.

We sell Calvert-Lewin as an 18 year old for 1 million when he was 5th choice strike in league 1.
Over the years he plays with better players, developed and massively improves. Eventually when he’s 25 years old he plays for England and there’s talk he worth 30 million.

Some of our fans then have this weird logic of “why did we sell him as a 18 year old because if we’d have kept him he’d now be worth 30 million. Just proves we were robbed selling him for only 1 million”.

You can only judge deals taking in the factors at the time of the deal.
An example is most of our fans currnently think Ben Woodburn is poor but he could easily join another Championship club in January and look really impressive. I bet some of our fans will then be saying they knew all along that Woodburn was the most talented player at the club and we should have played him more.

Calvert lewin 30 million more like 330k

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well they finished in the play offs when they wouldn't have without him so it wasn't that bad.

That's not a definite though is it?

 

[BushBlade]

The bid for Dack was rejected in the summer so I'd argue that completely.

Sorry, can you expand? Are you saying a bid was turned down for Dack in the summer? Who from? And how much? I’m not saying it didn’t happen btw, Venkys never cease to surprise me.

 

[BushBlade]

As said every football club, ever. It was the only offer on the table and was good money. Of course he looks better now because he's surrounded by far better players and his talents will be wasted in the Welsh team.

Norwich fans will no doubt say they 'gave James Maddison away at £20m' when somebody like Man. City of Liverpool pay around £70m for him and he's an England regular.



A takeover by Fosun International (value £170bn) might help?

This is what McCabe is up against.

Absolutely but even then they could have got it wrong. Although with that money, you could get it wrong a few times and it’s still only loose change.

As I posted the other day, Dave Whelan let Wigan go for around £20m because he couldn’t afford to lose £10m a season, which was their projected losses. If our owners won’t put money in, we have to sell two Brooks every three seasons just to compete.

 

[bromtom]

Current Brooks thoughts, annoyed he left but not a regular.

Couldn't shoot, this was why I thought Woodburn would be an upgrade - every time Brooks had a shot from anywhere other than 6 yards out it was a bibbly bobbly one along the ground.

Obviously tricky, and good for getting past a man and driving us forward, and would try throughballs, but still think the thing we miss most about him is his contribution off the pitch. Duffy was far better with Brooks as competition. He was obviously brilliant (though inconsistent) but I think the fact that he was a quality attacking player from our academy, which is quite rare adds to the disappointment that he's gone.

On £12m, having seen £20m Maddison for Leicester, probably fair enough to be honest. Maybe us and Norwich should both have got more, but I think there's definitely a gap.

Big sell on, he didn't show any loyalty to us so he can coco outside of earning us some more money in a year or two.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Has he said that recently? Did he go into detail about how much? Was he just referring to the first tranche or all of it?

If he's speaking of a lack of funds now, something must have changed.

Has Wilder actually bemoaned a lack of funds?

I’ve heard him say that we need a couple of high quality players to keep being competitive at the top but he hasn’t actually said there is no money available to get them.

I’m still hoping that he’ll be given a decent budget in January. I think he is too and he’s just asking for clarity and confirmation that he’ll be backed?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Has Wilder actually bemoaned a lack of funds?

I’ve heard him say that we need a couple of high quality players to keep being competitive at the top but he hasn’t actually said there is no money available to get them.

I’m still hoping that he’ll be given a decent budget in January. I think he is too and he’s just asking for clarity and confirmation that he’ll be backed?

I'm going on what's been said on the forum. All I recall was him saying he had to get it right "if he was allowed to".

Edit

"so, why is Wilder chelping on about having no money then? Or is he saying it just isn't enough? Or is he " for example.


Good thread though, sensible debate even with opposite opinions.

 

[itsinyerblood]

I'm going on what's been said on the forum. All I recall was him saying he had to get it right "if he was allowed to".

Hasn't Wilder almost mentioned that he has no control over the ambitions and aspirations of the club's owners? The inference being that he, CW, hoped their, the owners, ambition matched his own. I don't know about anyone else but I think it's clear that he hasn't been exactly blown away by the funds provided so far. Which brings us back to the comment, apparently made by the Prince, that when we achieve promotion to the Championship then he, the Prince, will provide a level of funding that's appropriate to a club with the ambition to seek promotion to the Premiership. Maybe what all this confirms is that everything needs to be confirmed in writing, rather than inexplicit phrases that can either be confirmed or denied at a later date.

 

[ThatJa]

The only way we'll ever be able to keep youngsters like Brooks is by playing in the Premier League. Not even sure why there is an arguement about it.

 

[derryblade]

Wilder has said in his latest interview that he has submitted his wish list to the owners for January and added that KM and the Prince wanted Premiership football as much as he did. Well that's reassured me roll on January

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I'm going on what's been said on the forum. All I recall was him saying he had to get it right "if he was allowed to".

Edit

"so, why is Wilder chelping on about having no money then? Or is he saying it just isn't enough? Or is he " for example.


Good thread though, sensible debate even with opposite opinions.

These are his actual words from before the Forest game:-

<< Before the trip to Forest, Wilder told a national newspaper: “I’m sure both owners would say for something like this to be settled in a courtroom is not ideal. It’s something I can’t do anything about. It doesn’t impact my job on a daily basis, but it impacts the club’s direction. Planning and structures have to be put on hold. It doesn’t stop us wanting to win games and there’s a saying in Sheffield about trying to get a pint out of a half-pint pot.

“It will be interesting to see what happens in the lead-up to January, to see what the attitude will be. Me and the supporters would say, ‘There’s a pot there at the end worth £190 million’ but it ain’t my dough or my decision. I’d like us to be a bit more ambitious and for those differences to be sorted out, but if that’s not the case, we’ll give it our best shot.”

Prior to the recent victory against Wigan at the Lane, Wilder said: “It just shows what can happen with a bit of backing and ambition.” He was referring to the Latics’ eight-year stay in the Premier League during which time they won the FA Cup and secured Europa League football at the DW Stadium.

“With all due respect, and I have respect for them, they're not the most glamorous of clubs. Most people in Wigan will probably tell you the rugby league lads are the biggest team there. But that doesn't matter if you've got that backing from the top. >>


A request for backing and ambition with the possibility of making their investment back and much more (plus the glory which should be an even bigger incentive for them than money)

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Explosive new interview from Wilder ahead of the Reading game going into the business in January: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06ttvtd

“Obviously as the time we struck the deal with Liverpool we had assumed that Ben would be featuring regularly and that the risk on our part was small. Unfortunately we haven’t been able to get him game time, and as a result of the agreement we’ve made all of the funds we received in the Brooks deal over the summer will have to be handed over to Liverpool. I’m not ‘appeh about it, but sometimes this is how things work out in football.” (Listen from 20m42)

 

[Topplayersleave]

The only way we'll ever be able to keep youngsters like Brooks is by playing in the Premier League. Not even sure why there is an arguement about it.

You can keep anyone who is under contract
Players and agents have the power if clubs let them

If a player wants to go but you don't want to sell then it's his problem

Fact is the United board wanted to sell him, and just like any other player that's sold they shift the emphasis and blame onto the player wanting to leave

Bullshitting in other words

 

[madeinsheffield]

Explosive new interview from Wilder ahead of the Reading game going into the business in January: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06ttvtd

“Obviously as the time we struck the deal with Liverpool we had assumed that Ben would be featuring regularly and that the risk on our part was small. Unfortunately we haven’t been able to get him game time, and as a result of the agreement we’ve made all of the funds we received in the Brooks deal over the summer will have to be handed over to Liverpool. I’m not ‘appeh about it, but sometimes this is how things work out in football.” (Listen from 20m42)

Nearly had me then, until I saw how long the interview was!