COVID Passport

[Oldun]

Everyone needs the vaccine to protect those already with the vaccine because the vaccine isn’t 100% but let’s scrap tests that tell you whether you’ve got covid because the vaccines work, although you can still catch & transmit covid with the vaccine because the vaccines aren’t 100%. But don’t you dare question it you selfish bastards

Who is scrapping the tests? If you have had the vaccines but have COVID symptoms you still need a test.

 

[Oldun]

Thing is though, I had Covid without any of those symptoms. I felt a bit "achey", took some Day Nurse and felt fine. A family member insisted I should test even though i showed none of those symptoms. I did and it was positive.

Yes that’s one of the problems with COVID - you can have it without any symptoms. Pesky huh?

 

[Oldun]

Right.
Those of you who have made the free choice not to have the vaccine. And are worried the need for a Covid Passport may exclude you from nightclubs, pubs and/or football grounds.
I'm happy to help you in any way I can. So, specifically, what do you want those of us who have chosen the vaccine to do to help?

Not many takers for your advice are there? Too many people want to shift responsibility away from themselves. Lots of people claiming to be worried about long term safety. Probably the same people who will happily have a few pints before a match without worrying about the long term safety, or take some paracetamol to get rid of the hangover the day after.

 

[McGoaldrick]

Who is scrapping the tests? If you have had the vaccines but have COVID symptoms you still need a test.

What i’m upset about is vaccine passports with no alternative option of a test to get into events.

Thing is though, I had Covid without any of those symptoms. I felt a bit "achey", took some Day Nurse and felt fine. A family member insisted I should test even though i showed none of those symptoms. I did and it was positive.

This is a perfect example of how a vaccine only covid certification is flawed.

Bro science here, but if the vaccine lessens symptoms but you can still transmit the virus there may be more asymptomatic spread??

Sure, I get that it’s not popular not wanting the vaccine. But to exclude those people & not give them opportunity to go to football games/pubs/clubs etc (i’m sure the list will grow) is mental and not really supported by any logic or science.

Very frustrating when people are so in favour of it and so vindictive & eager to get the evil ‘anti-vaxxers’.

 

[Oldun]

What i’m upset about is vaccine passports with no alternative option of a test to get into events.

This is a perfect example of how a vaccine only covid certification is flawed.

Bro science here, but if the vaccine lessens symptoms but you can still transmit the virus there may be more asymptomatic spread??

Sure, I get that it’s not popular not wanting the vaccine. But to exclude those people & not give them opportunity to go to football games/pubs/clubs etc (i’m sure the list will grow) is mental and not really supported by any logic or science.

Very frustrating when people are so in favour of it and so vindictive & eager to get the evil ‘anti-vaxxers’.

Studies have shown that a single vaccination reduces likelihood of onward transmission by around 50%. That the actual science bro.

 

[Oldun]

What i’m upset about is vaccine passports with no alternative option of a test to get into events.

This is a perfect example of how a vaccine only covid certification is flawed.

Bro science here, but if the vaccine lessens symptoms but you can still transmit the virus there may be more asymptomatic spread??

Sure, I get that it’s not popular not wanting the vaccine. But to exclude those people & not give them opportunity to go to football games/pubs/clubs etc (i’m sure the list will grow) is mental and not really supported by any logic or science.

Very frustrating when people are so in favour of it and so vindictive & eager to get the evil ‘anti-vaxxers’.

Some more actual science for you

 

[McGoaldrick]

Some more actual science for you

A powerpoint. Fantastic. Thanks mate

 

[Oldun]

A powerpoint. Fantastic. Thanks mate

I can send you the articles as well if you would like? Hope this has allayed some of your fears.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

What i’m upset about is vaccine passports with no alternative option of a test to get into events.

This is a perfect example of how a vaccine only covid certification is flawed.

Bro science here, but if the vaccine lessens symptoms but you can still transmit the virus there may be more asymptomatic spread??

Sure, I get that it’s not popular not wanting the vaccine. But to exclude those people & not give them opportunity to go to football games/pubs/clubs etc (i’m sure the list will grow) is mental and not really supported by any logic or science.

Very frustrating when people are so in favour of it and so vindictive & eager to get the evil ‘anti-vaxxers’.

I have posted above that I am very willing to listen to people "in your position". And to see how you want people to help. I agree, we can't move forward with finger pointing. I'm desperate to be the opposite of vindictive. But, I'm at a loss as to how to help.

 

[McGoaldrick]

I can send you the articles as well if you would like? Hope this has allayed some of your fears.

If you’ve read them yourself I respect that pal, genuinely. Although it looks like that is nabbed off twitter. And I understand you’re passionate about it. However please realise that not wanting the jab doesn’t mean individuals are going round trying to pass it onto everyone. And doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways around it.

I have posted above that I am very willing to listen to people "in your position". And to see how you want people to help. I agree, we can't move forward with finger pointing. I'm desperate to be the opposite of vindictive. But, I'm at a loss as to how to help.

I also appreciate this. My take would be to get in contact with local MPs when vaccine passports try to move through parliament. A strong opposition is needed really to avoid social exclusion. I’m not a fan of covid certification to be honest, however some form of it with testing as an option is a much better middle ground than vaccines only. And as I say, I think is probably more reliable?

 

[bromtom]

What i’m upset about is vaccine passports with no alternative option of a test to get into events.

This is a perfect example of how a vaccine only covid certification is flawed.

Bro science here, but if the vaccine lessens symptoms but you can still transmit the virus there may be more asymptomatic spread??

Sure, I get that it’s not popular not wanting the vaccine. But to exclude those people & not give them opportunity to go to football games/pubs/clubs etc (i’m sure the list will grow) is mental and not really supported by any logic or science.

Very frustrating when people are so in favour of it and so vindictive & eager to get the evil ‘anti-vaxxers’.

I think with your alternative point, it's that such a test doesn't really exist, not to the extent that it'd be comparable to being double vaccinated in the "safety" stakes.

A LFT is quick but has a very small window of being useful, and a PCR "to make sure" is accurate but takes days to get results, so you're sat waiting for results when you could have been infected in the meantime unless you've isolated, and such a "to make sure" test is not encouraged unless you have symptoms I don't think, because of load on the labs.

Vaccines reduce transmission significantly, so if you're in a double vaxxed crowd it's actually safer, even if someone still has it, for you and anyone they give it to.

If there's people who just have tests, if the test missed it, they're more likely to transmit it than someone with a vaccine, and if they get it it'll be far worse.

I do totally understand the ID concerns (although I think the time to be concerned for our privacy and have it actually do something has been and gone) but wouldn't be adverse personally to them if they are short term, like they last 12 months and then we see where we are, if the pandemic is still ongoing to the same level (I know covid will be with us for a long time) and they're still necessary then reissue or reactivate them, however it works, but they should be strictly for medical purposes and have no other tacked on shit in the future, I'd appreciate that being made into law if they come.

I'm not going to say I know everything about the ID debate though, so that might be simplistic or daft view on it.

 

[Oldun]

If you’ve read them yourself I respect that pal, genuinely. Although it looks like that is nabbed off twitter. And I understand you’re passionate about it. However please realise that not wanting the jab doesn’t mean individuals are going round trying to pass it onto everyone. And doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways around it.

I also appreciate this. My take would be to get in contact with local MPs when vaccine passports try to move through parliament. A strong opposition is needed really to avoid social exclusion. I’m not a fan of covid certification to be honest, however some form of it with testing as an option is a much better middle ground than vaccines only. And as I say, I think is probably more reliable?

I’m just trying to point out that some of your statements on vaccine effectiveness aren’t necessary correct. Everyone is being offered the opportunity to be vaccinated so why would anyone need to be socially excluded unless they choose to be? Vaccination is the way out of the last 18 months. Why would people choose not to take it unless they have a very specific medical reason why they can’t (in reality this is very few people).

 

[McGoaldrick]

I think with your alternative point, it's that such a test doesn't really exist, not to the extent that it'd be comparable to being double vaccinated in the "safety" stakes.

A LFT is quick but has a very small window of being useful, and a PCR "to make sure" is accurate but takes days to get results, so you're sat waiting for results when you could have been infected in the meantime unless you've isolated, and such a "to make sure" test is not encouraged unless you have symptoms I don't think, because of load on the labs.

Vaccines reduce transmission significantly, so if you're in a double vaxxed crowd it's actually safer, even if someone still has it, for you and anyone they give it to.

If there's people who just have tests, if the test missed it, they're more likely to transmit it than someone with a vaccine, and if they get it it'll be far worse.

I do totally understand the ID concerns (although I think the time to be concerned for our privacy and have it actually do something has been and gone) but wouldn't be adverse personally to them if they are short term, like they last 12 months and then we see where we are, if the pandemic is still ongoing to the same level (I know covid will be with us for a long time) and they're still necessary then reissue or reactivate them, however it works, but they should be strictly for medical purposes and have no other tacked on shit in the future, I'd appreciate that being made into law if they come.

I'm not going to say I know everything about the ID debate though, so that might be simplistic or daft view on it.

That is a fair point mate & likewise I won’t claim to have all the answers. However it makes little sense to me why the UK are using more tests than the entirety of Europe right now if they aren’t good enough to continue using.

And with the ID, I could sit out for a year if that was the case. Obviously wouldn’t be happy and it’d be one less voice at blades game, but this government time and time again have asked for an inch and then taken a mile. I would have no faith that they’d only last 12 months.

I’m just trying to point out that some of your statements on vaccine effectiveness aren’t necessary correct. Everyone is being offered the opportunity to be vaccinated so why would anyone need to be socially excluded unless they choose to be? Vaccination is the way out of the last 18 months. Why would people choose not to take it unless they have a very specific medical reason why they can’t (in reality this is very few people).

I won’t speak on behalf of everyone, but I’m sure there are a number of different reasons for concern. I imagine a lot are not opposed to taking it, but would rather wait for more info & peer review. I know it’s been approved for emergency use, but clinical trials don’t end until mid 2023 I believe.

Blood clots will obviously be one concern. I also notice that in the powerpoint from twitter you sent, pfizer’s findings were in the table and you told me it’s “the science”. Pfizer have been found guilty in one of the biggest lawsuits ever for lying about data in trials. The government’s constant flip-flops and lack of scientific decision making will not be easing fears either.

I don’t think vaccination is a bad thing mate, I just think it should be a non-coerced choice.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Vaccination works. It promotes immunity in individuals. And therefore gives the disease no room to breathe & mutate. And it eventually dies & becomes a thing of the past. I'm not talking about Covid, I'm talking generally. So, when we choose the Vax, we are trying to protect ourselves, protect others and protect future generations. We acknowledge that comes with a risk. The risk that the particular vaccine might hurt us individually. People who are choosing to not be vaxxed need to at least understand that point of view. To understand why people who choose the Vax feel passionately about it. Because it's a collective thing, it's helping others, it feeeeels good.
And, in turn, people who choose the Vax have to go with persuasion, logic, appealing to the greater good. Not finger pointing & accusations at those who choose not to Vax. (And I've been guilty of that recently).

(I appreciate this doesn't deal with the Vax Pass point)

 

[Bladeloyal]

My take is why wouldn't someone get vaxed .but the vaccine passport threat is just that it's a stick to get more done ,Boris will soon back track .as he does on most things .

 

[Beat Jedi]

Wonder how it would go down if someone suggested banning all fatties from supermarkets

Further to that point, why don’t we give passports and QR codes to pedos and rapists? Because it would be an invasion of privacy and against their human rights. They get a new fucking name and protected from any abuse.

But god forbid you don’t want a vaccine, kick them folk out of society instead

It might end up there! Anyone who thinks these passports will begin and end with covid vaccine status are naive. Some might finally get angry about it when their phone doesn't let them in Macca Ds!

 

[Oldun]

That is a fair point mate & likewise I won’t claim to have all the answers. However it makes little sense to me why the UK are using more tests than the entirety of Europe right now if they aren’t good enough to continue using.

And with the ID, I could sit out for a year if that was the case. Obviously wouldn’t be happy and it’d be one less voice at blades game, but this government time and time again have asked for an inch and then taken a mile. I would have no faith that they’d only last 12 months.


I won’t speak on behalf of everyone, but I’m sure there are a number of different reasons for concern. I imagine a lot are not opposed to taking it, but would rather wait for more info & peer review. I know it’s been approved for emergency use, but clinical trials don’t end until mid 2023 I believe.

Blood clots will obviously be one concern. I also notice that in the powerpoint from twitter you sent, pfizer’s findings were in the table and you told me it’s “the science”. Pfizer have been found guilty in one of the biggest lawsuits ever for lying about data in trials. The government’s constant flip-flops and lack of scientific decision making will not be easing fears either.

I don’t think vaccination is a bad thing mate, I just think it should be a non-coerced choice.

That’s an independent study involving over a million participants and published in an international peer reviewed journal. It doesn’t get much more scientifically rigorous than that.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2101765

 

[McGoaldrick]

That’s an independent study involving over a million participants and published in an international peer reviewed journal. It doesn’t get much more scientifically rigorous than that.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2101765

More info on long-term impacts and/or risks I meant. Maybe should have specified that better.
Remember I’m just throwing suggestions out there to answer your question of why people may resist. I understand that the jab lowers transmission. You’ve drilled that point home do not worry lad that remains irrelevant if you’re going out and don’t have covid in the first place

 

[manxblade]

Yes that’s one of the problems with COVID - you can have it without any symptoms. Pesky huh?

you could have the jab. it doesn't stop you getting covid and it doesn't stop you passing it on but it will get you a good social credit score

 

[Bladeloyal]

One wonders why in certain city's Manchester being one that well less than 50% of adults have had the two doses .maybe if NHS care for people choosing not to have the Vax then hospitalised was charged for then the take up might increase .and we might all get out of this shit show sooner .

 

[Beat Jedi]

My take is why wouldn't someone get vaxed .but the vaccine passport threat is just that it's a stick to get more done ,Boris will soon back track .as he does on most things .

Hopefully right. Why did it suddenly become ok to just prove jab for nightclubs but a neg test isn't acceptable? It's just to increase jab take up. Why's the same not acceptable for holidays? Because a nice little earner has developed for some companies (probably Hancock's mates (our new shirt sponsor lol!) around holidays charging over the odds for testing packages. You can go on the government website and fill your house with free tests if u want. Can I go on holiday now then? Nah that'll cost u 200 quid or whatever.

 

[Oldun]

you could have the jab. it doesn't stop you getting covid and it doesn't stop you passing it on but it will get you a good social credit score

Not sure about social credit but it does significantly reduce your risk of getting COVID, and it does significantly reduce your risk of passing it on if you do get it.

 

[Bladeloyal]

Very true ,once something is started up and it's making a tidy profit very rarely does that business stop . Lft.s if good enough for schools and work then there's no justification for not using them on holidays .but logic doesn't allways come into it .

 

[Oldun]

Very true ,once something is started up and it's making a tidy profit very rarely does that business stop . Lft.s if good enough for schools and work then there's no justification for not using them on holidays .but logic doesn't allways come into it .

Yes because LFTs have worked so well for schools haven’t they.

 

[Silent Blade]

Football fans will need a two-jab Covid vaccination to attend matches with capacities above 16,000 from the end of September IF infection rates stay dangerously high, as Prime Minister Boris Johnson moves to protect the NHS in the autumn

Says about 20,000

Vaccination proof may be required to attend sports events of about 20,000 or more capacity

Fans may be required to show proof of full vaccination to attend sports venues with capacities of about 20,000 or more by the end of September.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bladeloyal]

Yes because LFTs have worked so well for schools haven’t they.

I wasn't quoting their effectiveness because I personally think they are a bad test and no test is better than a bad one .but the government uses them

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Not many takers for your advice are there? Too many people want to shift responsibility away from themselves. Lots of people claiming to be worried about long term safety. Probably the same people who will happily have a few pints before a match without worrying about the long term safety, or take some paracetamol to get rid of the hangover the day after.

I'll have had both vaccines by the time season starts. I don't agree with covid passports. It is people right to not have to have the vax, or be unduly coerced into having it.
As a society, I don't see what we gain from forcing people who don't want one into it. Hospitalisations and deaths are down to next to nothing, that was always the target, and it's been achieved. No need for further enforcements.

 

[Harrisblade]

Yes that’s one of the problems with COVID - you can have it without any symptoms. Pesky huh?

I think some on here still don't believe that

 

[blades95]

Not sure about social credit but it does significantly reduce your risk of getting COVID, and it does significantly reduce your risk of passing it on if you do get it.

A big issue I've noticed during the pandemic is that so many people struggle to understand things that aren't absolutes.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Not sure about social credit but it does significantly reduce your risk of getting COVID, and it does significantly reduce your risk of passing it on if you do get it.

And significantly reduces your chances of being hospitalised by it. Given those facts and the widespread uptake of the vax, along with natural immunity from infection, I don't think people need to be worrying about the stragglers who haven't had it or don't want it.