Could Warnock be our new Derek Dooley?

[shorehamview]

Answers on a postcard please to -
"Not a fucking chance in hell competition"
S24SU Towers
Next To The Noisy Women
Lower Meersbrook
Sheffield

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I'm surprised we've not had Pinchy jumping up and down screaming Bladey, Bladey, Bladey, fucking Blade.

I have a little sympathy for his point. We do have a very parochial set of supporters when it comes to naming possible new personnel in the club. Of course, I realise that this OP was probably more about NW, than a serious debate about the DOF role (Dooley never ever did it, we've never had one as a club) or the CEO role with emphasis on the football side (Dooley DID something very similar). Frankly, NW suits neither role and as others have said if he doesn't finally retire to his tractor after Rotherham, he will get another short-term management job.

But if we seriously want to talk about that role, I've said for a long time that many of the problems over the last few years are down to nobody with a football background having the ear and some influence with the board. Whether it is the appointment of managers, or the signing of players, or just someone to say, 'we play like this, so why you signing him?' It's a role for someone with experience and knowledge, but also someone who will happily sit in the background and advise (doesn't sound like a role playing to the strengths of NW does it?) Here's a few suggestions, some a bit controversial, but more suited than NW:

Ray Wilkins
David Pleat
Joe Royle
Howard Wilkinson
Alex Sabella
Peter Taylor
Kevin Keegan
Trevor Francis
Paul Hart
John Gregory
Nigel Spackman

 

[blade too long]

Is Neil prepared to have a leg off

 

[billyblademan]

I'm surprised we've not had Pinchy jumping up and down screaming Bladey, Bladey, Bladey, fucking Blade.

I have a little sympathy for his point. We do have a very parochial set of supporters when it comes to naming possible new personnel in the club. Of course, I realise that this OP was probably more about NW, than a serious debate about the DOF role (Dooley never ever did it, we've never had one as a club) or the CEO role with emphasis on the football side (Dooley DID something very similar). Frankly, NW suits neither role and as others have said if he doesn't finally retire to his tractor after Rotherham, he will get another short-term management job.

But if we seriously want to talk about that role, I've said for a long time that many of the problems over the last few years are down to nobody with a football background having the ear and some influence with the board. Whether it is the appointment of managers, or the signing of players, or just someone to say, 'we play like this, so why you signing him?' It's a role for someone with experience and knowledge, but also someone who will happily sit in the background and advise (doesn't sound like a role playing to the strengths of NW does it?) Here's a few suggestions, some a bit controversial, but more suited than NW:

Ray Wilkins
David Pleat
Joe Royle
Howard Wilkinson
Alex Sabella
Peter Taylor
Kevin Keegan
Trevor Francis
Paul Hart
John Gregory
Nigel Spackman

I think that list represents the difficulty of finding a suitable DoF, should we ever choose to have one. You need an old bastard, who no longer wants to be a manager, but is not considered a 'dinosaur'.
Nobody on that list stands out to be honest (other than Sabella), and a few look like disasters waiting to happen. To plonk another controversial, and mostly likely useless, name out there - someone like Nigel Worthington. Only just out of work, unlikely to get another job, respected/has contacts, and probably still vaguely au-fait with the modern game and all that comes with it.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I think that list represents the difficulty of finding a suitable DoF, should we ever choose to have one. You need an old bastard, who no longer wants to be a manager, but is not considered a 'dinosaur'.
Nobody on that list stands out to be honest (other than Sabella), and a few look like disasters waiting to happen. To plonk another controversial, and mostly likely useless, name out there - someone like Nigel Worthington. Only just out of work, unlikely to get another job, respected/has contacts, and probably still vaguely au-fait with the modern game and all that comes with it.

Plenty around, like you say old but not out of touch is required. Also depends how hands on you want. the DOF role in most situations is quite involved, player negotiations, transfer negotiations, contract renewals etc. Whereas the alternative of a more advisory role offers a broader suitability (the likes of Wilkinson, Pleat etc.)
You could perhaps add McClaren after the Newcastle farce and maybe Hoddle, Tony Woodcock (although most of his playing and all his management has been in Germany), Souness, Redknapp, Walter Smith just off the top of my head. Like I said, I don't think we need a DOF, but someone like Dooley who is around and able to advise a listening board on specific football issues.

My marker for the role, if they were in post would Clough have been able to assemble a squad of 40+ with shit-all quality in it?

 

[him behind you]

He's nothing like Derek Dooley. Dooley didn't seek publicity, got on with the job and knew when his time was up.

Why would we want a DOF who was simply a motivator? If that's the criteria from the past Bassett would be a far better choice.

In any event DD wasn't a DOF. Ever.

Spot on Sean. Dooley was a star, sat in the background and appeared to support the manager without getting too involved, I honestly don't ever recall DD commenting on the manager's actions or team issues. Does anyone seriously believe that Warnock would do that and leave the manager to get on with on the pitch issues? I can't and think it would be a disaster - may as well go down the Leeds route and try a chairman that buys players and picks teams etc.

 

[Eskimo]

He's nothing like Derek Dooley. Dooley didn't seek publicity, got on with the job and knew when his time was up.

Why would we want a DOF who was simply a motivator? If that's the criteria from the past Bassett would be a far better choice.

In any event DD wasn't a DOF. Ever.

Why would we want a motivator at the club?
I'd have the motivator with the rotavator back tomorrow.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Why would we want a motivator at the club?
I'd have the motivator with the rotavator back tomorrow.

In a DOF role?

 

[Eskimo]

Sort of.
In the same way that Dooley played to his strengths by doing what he did (whatever that was). We'd engage Warnock to do what he's' good at, motivation, belief, passion, interviews, goading the opposition other stuff.

 

[ghandi]

I'm mesmerised by all this hankering after a Dooley type character. What did Dooley actually do that made any difference bearing in my mind he was on the board going back to Brearley? I'd be very interested to hear of any and I don't mean generalisations, hearsay and platitudes.

 

[blade too long]

from an obituary for dooley

Dooley's time at United had its difficult moments. In 1993, for example, he threatened to resign when the club's chairman sold Brian Deane to Leeds for £2.9 million. He retired as United's chief executive in 1996, but returned three years later as chairman. He was instrumental in the appointment as manager of Neil Warnock, who took United to three Cup semi-finals and, in 2006, back to the Premiership, though they survived only one season. Dooley stood down with promotion secured, becoming United's life vice-president.

he was responsible for Warnock

 

[Woodwaaard]

I'm mesmerised by all this hankering after a Dooley type character. What did Dooley actually do that made any difference bearing in my mind he was on the board going back to Brearley? I'd be very interested to hear of any and I don't mean generalisations, hearsay and platitudes.

Me too, during the vast majority of Mr Warnock's tenure, Mr Dooley's brief was to sort out the car parking arrangements for pass holders, officials, guests etc.
Nice bloke though

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I'm mesmerised by all this hankering after a Dooley type character. What did Dooley actually do that made any difference bearing in my mind he was on the board going back to Brearley? I'd be very interested to hear of any and I don't mean generalisations, hearsay and platitudes.

Bassett and Warnock both speak highly of him in their books. Saying he was always there when they had an issue and he was a great conduit between manager and the money men. I think he had a hand in the appointment of both. But I don’t know if that’s what we specifically require right now.


People look at clubs like Swansea, Southampton, West Brom, Watford etc. and see they have a DoF and they seem to transition from manager to manager quite comfortably because they have someone above them dealing with player recruitment etc. to ensure there is consistency in terms of recruiting players for the way they want to play. It might take a different type of manager to be successful at a club with that structure. Pocchetino seems great for it being successful at Southampton and Spurs. I’m undecided as to whether it’s the right route for us. It does help clubs cope better with the short lived nature of managerial reigns these days. That’s been a big problem for us. We sack a manager, appoint a new one who wants to play a different way but is stuck with the old guy’s players, then sack him just as he’s starting to shape his own squad, then someone else with a different style and the wrong players and so on. I think we need to do one of two things.


1. Ensure there is a consistency in style and that any change in manager does not change the style or the type of players required. This might be best achieved having a DoF overseeing player recruitment with the head coach becoming more dispensible.


2. Stick with a manager for a long period. Don’t pull the trigger and let him have a prolonged crack at trying to build a team the way he wants it. Let him develop young players, tweak the squad year on year and back him to do a long term job.


They are the only 2 ways I can see for us to get out of this cycle of shit we seem to be stuck in.

 

[Silent Blade]

I'm mesmerised by all this hankering after a Dooley type character. What did Dooley actually do that made any difference bearing in my mind he was on the board going back to Brearley? I'd be very interested to hear of any and I don't mean generalisations, hearsay and platitudes.

Persuading Bassett not to resign after our relegation to division 3 in 1988 was one of the things that made a difference

 

[Bladesince59]

Just get him back as manager.