Collins and Butler

[super_pig]

If he was good enough and his attitude was right he'd be playing. He knows what clough expects

dunno about that.. i was always the best player at football practice.. to everyones general astonishment i never made the school team.. in the end i used to go for the wind up

 

[flash-blade]

Is that so?

Didn't Collins come out a few weeks back and state that he wants to fight for his place?

not sure what that's got to do with anything. He's being the model pro rather than spitting the dummy out.

 

[flash-blade]

If he was good enough and his attitude was right he'd be playing. He knows what clough expects

His attitude has always been 100%, he might not be the best player in the world but I'd have him in the team at the moment as we need leaders and he's better than what we are playing, Cloughs bombed him, simple as

 

[SwissBlade]

not sure what that's got to do with anything. He's being the model pro rather than spitting the dummy out.

His attitude has always been 100%, he might not be the best player in the world but I'd have him in the team at the moment as we need leaders and he's better than what we are playing, Cloughs bombed him, simple as

Hence my question "is that so?"

From what Clough said after the Swindon game it was Collins who'd spat the dummy and put himself in exile. Clough said the door was open when Collins basically found his dummy.

Collins stated his commitment about a month later...

So do you know different? I'm only basing my judgement on what's actually been said, I've no reason to judge any other way. But if you've got different info crack on

 

[Cyprus Blade]

If proof was needed that neither of these two gentlemen will appear in a blades shirt again then our Nige's comment in the Star about Bashenbauer's suspension is somewhat revealing. Did he say "We have Neil Collins pushing for a return and we can recall Andy Butler" ? Nope - he never mentioned them, instead commenting,
"“We’ve got Terry Kennedy and Harrison McGahey who can both play there,” . Of course the possibility exists of both being in the back 4 (McGahey at RB eh Nige?) if Flynn, Alcock and Davies are not fit for the QPR game or more importantly the Preston game. I shall sleep soundly knowing that the way back is open for two established, if not perfect, players and that there is no grudge-bearing in our Nige. If the Butler fiasco was a one-off and our Nige felt his only way forward was to bite the bullet and cut his losses I would say fair enough - however the evidence would suggest NC has deficiencies in his man management, a tendency to see his bum and a long memory for transgressors. If this were a question about form in a pre-season friendly I have to say 3/4 of the team would be out on loan or shopping at Meadowhell

 

[Sheff de party]

Collins is a sound defender at this level if he had a decent frontman running at him he was in trouble he can get turned easily.
However in this division forwards of quality are few and far between so he always shown to be well capable at this level.
Butler is the best CH in the division

He's not even the best CH at Donny. Honestly, he's not.

 

[Sheff de party]

Can't believe we're talking about Butler as saving the season.

We have conceded only four goals more than Bristol City and Swindon, who have an extra 14/15 points.

We have scored 14 and 16 goals FEWER.

Clearly, the defence is not the problem and bringing back Collins, Butler, Lee Sandford, David Holdsworth or Chris Morgan himself isn't going to solve it. We need to score more goals. It's as simple as that.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

Can't believe we're talking about Butler as saving the season.

We have conceded only four goals more than Bristol City and Swindon, who have an extra 14/15 points.

We have scored 14 and 16 goals FEWER.

Clearly, the defence is not the problem and bringing back Collins, Butler, Lee Sandford, David Holdsworth or Chris Morgan himself isn't going to solve it. We need to score more goals. It's as simple as that.

THANK YOU for cutting through the crap Sheff.
All this bollocks about Collins and Butler was wearing me down.

 

[bartman]

- however the evidence would suggest NC has deficiencies in his man management,

What evidence is this then?
I must admit I struggling to see it. I am just seeing a manager how has made a mistake in buying a player and doesn't think another is good enough anymore
What evidence have you seen which I haven't. ?.

 

[Blade]

Can't believe we're talking about Butler as saving the season.

We have conceded only four goals more than Bristol City and Swindon, who have an extra 14/15 points.

We have scored 14 and 16 goals FEWER.

Clearly, the defence is not the problem and bringing back Collins, Butler, Lee Sandford, David Holdsworth or Chris Morgan himself isn't going to solve it. We need to score more goals. It's as simple as that.

And 11 were conceded in the few weeks between Colchester and Chesterfield from 16th September to 4th October with Collins playing. Hence McCarthy coming in and Collins being bombed out. In addition to this McGahey was taken out of the team too. Since then we've only conceded 13 in 19 or 0.68 goals per game which is acceptable. Wolves walked the league last year conceding 0.67 goals per game.

We absolutely need to improve our attacking threat. We've scored 23 in those 19 games. 1.22 goals per game. Wolves managed 1.93. Tranmere went down scoring 1.13. As obvious as it may seem we need to start threatening teams earlier. We've only scored 5 first half goals all season ffs. 3 of those came in the first 5 games. Since then we've managed 2 goals in 765 first half minutes. Woeful.

We have to up the tempo and start harassing teams from the first minute, we showed capabilities against Southampton and if we put half as much pressure on league one defenders we'd create so many more chances. Switch the ball quicker to pull the opposition out of shape. Stop wasting free kicks by taking them short immediately with nobody on and take a moment, start getting men and the ball in the box where we might cause trouble.

 

[wizadry]

What evidence is this then?
I must admit I struggling to see it. I am just seeing a manager how has made a mistake in buying a player and doesn't think another is good enough anymore
What evidence have you seen which I haven't. ?.

He goes on to say if it was a lot to do with the pre season form and i'd like to add early season form then we wouldn't have had hardly any players playing,i think that's a fair assesment

Some are missing the point regarding the defence and why some are still not happy with it,this along with the lack of attacking intent for long periods and you're going to have problems in achieving your goals,stoping them and scoring them.Now i know we're not conceding many but the ones we do concede are normally very sloppy indeed and end up costing us quite a substantial amount of points,don't get me wrong you can't stop every goal,but i have to admit alot of ours could have been prevented with a commanding Centre Half,leading to more points on the table.

The way in which Clough sets his side up means he needs a commanding CB to stop these things happening,because lets face it,we'd get a fucking nose bleed if we scored 2 or 3.

We all know we need to score more but we should also know that Cloughy likes a 1-0 win,the only chance you have of this is if you stop the silly goals.If some fans don't know what to expect of Clough by now then i suggest you start watching Synchronised Swimming or something

 

[JohnDenver]

He goes on to say if it was a lot to do with the pre season form and i'd like to add early season form then we wouldn't have had hardly any players playing,i think that's a fair assesment

Some are missing the point regarding the defence and why some are still not happy with it,this along with the lack of attacking intent for long periods and you're going to have problems in achieving your goals,stoping them and scoring them.Now i know we're not conceding many but the ones we do concede are normally very sloppy indeed and end up costing us quite a substantial amount of points,don't get me wrong you can't stop every goal,but i have to admit alot of ours could have been prevented with a commanding Centre Half,leading to more points on the table.

The way in which Clough sets his side up means he needs a commanding CB to stop these things happening,because lets face it,we'd get a fucking nose bleed if we scored 2 or 3.

We all know we need to score more but we should also know that Cloughy likes a 1-0 win,the only chance you have of this is if you stop the silly goals.If some fans don't know what to expect of Clough by now then i suggest you start watching Synchronised Swimming or something

Totally agree. Clough's success last year was built on solid defence, nicking the first goal, then opening teams up on the break. We were very good at it.

Without HM and Brayford it's all gone south. Our capacity to concede a goal to our opponent's first attempt on target is a bigger problem than lacking firepower.

 

[bartman]

He goes on to say if it was a lot to do with the pre season form and i'd like to add early season form then we wouldn't have had hardly any players playing,i think that's a fair assesment

Some are missing the point regarding the defence and why some are still not happy with it,this along with the lack of attacking intent for long periods and you're going to have problems in achieving your goals,stoping them and scoring them.Now i know we're not conceding many but the ones we do concede are normally very sloppy indeed and end up costing us quite a substantial amount of points,don't get me wrong you can't stop every goal,but i have to admit alot of ours could have been prevented with a commanding Centre Half,leading to more points on the table.

The way in which Clough sets his side up means he needs a commanding CB to stop these things happening,because lets face it,we'd get a fucking nose bleed if we scored 2 or 3.

We all know we need to score more but we should also know that Cloughy likes a 1-0 win,the only chance you have of this is if you stop the silly goals.If some fans don't know what to expect of Clough by now then i suggest you start watching Synchronised Swimming or something

I agree. But this isn't poor man management,it is down to NC for not getting the right players in.

 

[wizadry]

I agree. But this isn't poor man management,it is down to NC for not getting the right players in.

I personally think he's brought some decent players in for this division but doesn't always play them or play them in their best position which is mind boggling at times.

Opinions we have are different sometimes and i don't personally agree that you need cast iron evidence to have one,but for me his man management has to be questioned on a numerous of situations at our club.Instead of sorting attitudes out and try to get them to come to terms with how he manages the club,he bombs them out completely,i don't think i need examples of this and our league position is suffering,not only because of the lack of funds but our manager under performing in his roles.With these 2 things combined,it's a recipe for disaster.Lets see what January brings.

 

[Lane Ender]

He's not even the best CH at Donny. Honestly, he's not.

Butler has been a key player for Donny since his loan.

 

[Sheff de party]

Butler has been a key player for Donny since his loan.

A key player for an average mid table side does not mean he'd solve all our problems. The Donny fans i know also rate McCullough more highly.

 

[awblade]

The difference being that Butler is our player. We have a poor defence and we have one of our more experienced players out on loan at a rival

 

[bartman]

The difference being that Butler is our player. We have a poor defence and we have one of our more experienced players out on loan at a rival

Is the defence that poor or is the fact we struggle to score more than one goal per game the real issue

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

If proof was needed that neither of these two gentlemen will appear in a blades shirt again then our Nige's comment in the Star about Bashenbauer's suspension is somewhat revealing. Did he say "We have Neil Collins pushing for a return and we can recall Andy Butler" ? Nope - he never mentioned them, instead commenting,
"“We’ve got Terry Kennedy and Harrison McGahey who can both play there,” . Of course the possibility exists of both being in the back 4 (McGahey at RB eh Nige?) if Flynn, Alcock and Davies are not fit for the QPR game or more importantly the Preston game. I shall sleep soundly knowing that the way back is open for two established, if not perfect, players and that there is no grudge-bearing in our Nige. If the Butler fiasco was a one-off and our Nige felt his only way forward was to bite the bullet and cut his losses I would say fair enough - however the evidence would suggest NC has deficiencies in his man management, a tendency to see his bum and a long memory for transgressors. If this were a question about form in a pre-season friendly I have to say 3/4 of the team would be out on loan or shopping at Meadowhell

Whether its Butler , Collins , McNuts or any other player . We have all been watching the blades long enough ,and you don't have to be a football manager or genius ,to know when something is right or wrong . It is clearly all wrong at BDTBL , and whether or not bringing in new players will deal with the root cause of the problem , i have no idea. Us supporters are not daft , but the fans and board are relying heavily on Mr Clough to get things right on the field of play . The board must have faith in the manager , but January will be the month , whether or not us fans have faith in them both.

One thing is for certain , i am not enjoying my football and all that goes with it at the lane and i never expect us to win every match we play. Bury the hatchet Mr Clough , for the good of the team and club.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

By all accounts Butler will never again play for us and it's time to forget about him.

 

[Guesty]

This is the point I was making when half the fans were wanking themselves silly about United 1-0ing their way to promotion. A team cannot rely on close fought victories alone . The margins for error are simply too small. In our case, we've started to concede alarmingly simple goals with regularity without sufficient firepower to compensate for that. We've never once threatened to run away with a game this year and if you don't run away with games sooner or later you're going to get caught, repeatedly.

Now nobody in their right mind would argue that Collins or Butler are a panacea for all our ills. But it is this weakness at the back which has made our apparently fool-proof plan of getting promoted by scoring just one goal a game fall apart like a cake in a bath. We need to either tighten up at the back or sign the kind of forward who scores enough goals to cover up deficiencies elsewhere.

 

[Jonboy60]

This is the point I was making when half the fans were wanking themselves silly about United 1-0ing their way to promotion. A team cannot rely on close fought victories alone . The margins for error are simply too small. In our case, we've started to concede alarmingly simple goals with regularity without sufficient firepower to compensate for that. We've never once threatened to run away with a game this year and if you don't run away with games sooner or later you're going to get caught, repeatedly.

Now nobody in their right mind would argue that Collins or Butler are a panacea for all our ills. But it is this weakness at the back which has made our apparently fool-proof plan of getting promoted by scoring just one goal a game fall apart like a cake in a bath. We need to either tighten up at the back or sign the kind of forward who scores enough goals to cover up deficiencies elsewhere.

Your right guesty, at this level every team is going to let in silly schoolboy error goals, but the top 4 seem to have the fire power to negate the goals against column. We don't.

 

[JasonEllis]

Is the defence that poor or is the fact we struggle to score more than one goal per game the real issue

As stated above (and accepted), whilst the overall record for goals conceded is good, I think this is more to do with restricting the number of chances that the oppo has.

The problem with the defence appears to be that when the oppo gets their one chance, invariably in recent weeks we have conceded.

In my opinion this points to weakness in defence, regardless of the number of goals conceded overall

 

[awblade]

If we are to play as Clough wants, which is scoring just one goal and going on to win. The defense needs to be much better than it is. Comparing our Goals Conceded to Wolves and whoever else is pretty much pointless. They are much more attacking teams, so will be likely to concede more goals, we are trying to go the opposite way. But it's not working, and it's shit football too

 

[metty]

As Bartman says, the problem lies with our inability to score goals. The stats tell us that in the league we have had 271 shots at goal this season scoring only 28 goals. That is a diabolical return of a goal for nearly every 10 attempts.

 

[Sirius]

This is the point I was making when half the fans were wanking themselves silly about United 1-0ing their way to promotion. A team cannot rely on close fought victories alone . The margins for error are simply too small. In our case, we've started to concede alarmingly simple goals with regularity without sufficient firepower to compensate for that. We've never once threatened to run away with a game this year and if you don't run away with games sooner or later you're going to get caught, repeatedly.

Now nobody in their right mind would argue that Collins or Butler are a panacea for all our ills. But it is this weakness at the back which has made our apparently fool-proof plan of getting promoted by scoring just one goal a game fall apart like a cake in a bath. We need to either tighten up at the back or sign the kind of forward who scores enough goals to cover up deficiencies elsewhere.

The Chelseas of this world can afford to sign players for the fun of it, knowing they will not play regularly, if at all,
On the other hand we can't afford that luxury. According to most, Butler is the player who should be at the heart of our defence.
You signed him Nigel, so play him and stop being a mardy arse . Your personal likes and dislikes, falling out with players you signed could cost us promotion.
Just a little tip about life in general Nige. You don't have to like some of the people you work for/with. provided that they are good at what they do Please take that on board and FFS get a settled team.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Sorry but I'm feeling a bit despondent looking through the team and recent performances. Will Sunday "kickstart the season" Well the prospect of a defensive line-up the like of

Kennedy MacGahey McEvelely Harris or worse MacGahey Kennedy McEvelely Harris

lining up against QPR is not something likely to induce me to bet my house on. Alcock may be fit though he was out of form before he got injured - hope he is back though. There's always Collins Nigel - decent scapegoat if it all goes tits up .

In form midfielders hard to find -err Scougall - poor all season, Baxter - definitely off the boil but, with Reed, the only one likely to create a goal, Doyle - tries hard, shouts a lot, but very limited, Wallace - always ruddy injured, K Wallace - new, Reed - must start, McGinn - not really, Murphy - must start but will he be in the mood, JCR - low flying aircraft beware, (interesting that the club's web site refers to McNuts as a midfielder and Baxter as a striker)

Up front - McNuts - must start but I bet he doesn't, Higdon - not set the world on fire has he, Porter - shopping at Meadowhall, Adams - new but I like what I have seen so far, O'Grady - gone sadly,

We'll either upset all the odds and sneak a win or get thumped - I hope for the former but fear the latter.

 

[wizadry]

Sorry but I'm feeling a bit despondent looking through the team and recent performances. Will Sunday "kickstart the season" Well the prospect of a defensive line-up the like of

Kennedy MacGahey McEvelely Harris or worse MacGahey Kennedy McEvelely Harris

lining up against QPR is not something likely to induce me to bet my house on. Alcock may be fit though he was out of form before he got injured - hope he is back though. There's always Collins Nigel - decent scapegoat if it all goes tits up .

In form midfielders hard to find -err Scougall - poor all season, Baxter - definitely off the boil but, with Reed, the only one likely to create a goal, Doyle - tries hard, shouts a lot, but very limited, Wallace - always ruddy injured, K Wallace - new, Reed - must start, McGinn - not really, Murphy - must start but will he be in the mood, JCR - low flying aircraft beware, (interesting that the club's web site refers to McNuts as a midfielder and Baxter as a striker)

Up front - McNuts - must start but I bet he doesn't, Higdon - not set the world on fire has he, Porter - shopping at Meadowhall, Adams - new but I like what I have seen so far, O'Grady - gone sadly,

We'll either upset all the odds and sneak a win or get thumped - I hope for the former but fear the latter.

Keep your chin up mate.You never know,Porter might bring us something nice back.

Do they sell players at Meadowhell

 

[Cyprus Blade]

a refund of his wages ?

I'll be screaming and bellowing for the blades on sunday as always but some of the stuff does make you wonder.

 

[stannyblade]

Mates a Donny fan and says Butler has been brilliant for them. Our loss imo