Collins and Butler

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breeny

breeny

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Any chance we can get confirmation of exactly why the above 2 players aren't getting anywhere near the pitch???
 



I heard a rumour (and it is only a rumour) that Butler had been promised the Captain's armband when he joined. There was some sort of stand off on the training ground with Doyle, and Clough had to back track, leading to heated words being said. Not sure if there is anythingt in it.
 
Cheers - like I say though it'd be nice to get some official comment.
 
flash-blade said:
the way both players have been treat is a disgrace, especially Collins who had a bad game at Swindon along with others but Cloughs bombed him.
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Think Butlers gone to them Donnie tramps on a free , on your avatar where's that guy in the black jumper from . North Derbyshire?.
 
Collins and Butler: a central defence partnership as good as any in the league. Donny could do a lot, lot worse.
 
I was told that Butler advised Harry to go to Hull, Clough got wind of it and that was that..

whatever really happened we wont get to know, but rather than put his own feelings to one side and put the club and team first Clough decided to "get him back" like a child and loaned him out, he's doing very well at Doncaster by all accounts, could have been just what the team needed, somebody with a spine to stand up to Nigel, a leader on the pitch..

this situation with butler is the sole reason i don't want clough to buy anybody in Jan, whoever he buys he knocks the life out of straight away and turns them into a boring plodding donkey just going through the motions, I don't like how clough treats players that the club pay hard earned money for, what next, sign rooney fall out with him and loan him back to man utd, good managers manage the player for the good of the team, they don't send them away so they don't have to see them in the corridors and feel arkward,, gutless clough, and the rest of the squad seems to be suffering from witnessing this spoilt brat attitude to man management, not to mention how nervous they must feel knowing that's thier fate should they dare to say anything other than YES BOSS..
 
Tezza1889 said:
I was told that Butler advised Harry to go to Hull, Clough got wind of it and that was that..

whatever really happened we wont get to know, but rather than put his own feelings to one side and put the club and team first Clough decided to "get him back" like a child and loaned him out, he's doing very well at Doncaster by all accounts, could have been just what the team needed, somebody with a spine to stand up to Nigel, a leader on the pitch..

this situation with butler is the sole reason i don't want clough to buy anybody in Jan, whoever he buys he knocks the life out of straight away and turns them into a boring plodding donkey just going through the motions, I don't like how clough treats players that the club pay hard earned money for, what next, sign rooney fall out with him and loan him back to man utd, good managers manage the player for the good of the team, they don't send them away so they don't have to see them in the corridors and feel arkward,, gutless clough, and the rest of the squad seems to be suffering from witnessing this spoilt brat attitude to man management, not to mention how nervous they must feel knowing that's thier fate should they dare to say anything other than YES BOSS..
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go on then. Who has he fallen out with(rather than dropped for poor performance) and who has he knocked the life out of ? Also, how does he treat the players? I'm just curious as from your comments you must know a few players in the squad to have so much information .
 
I'm sure a few saw Collins (of whom I've always admired for his no nonsense style of defending) and Butler ( of whom I'd heard only good things) play pre season and against Mansfield.
They were, quite frankly, shocking, and had I been manager ( thank fuck I ain't!), I'd have been thinking who I could replace them with asap.
All of a sudden they have morphed into Baresi & Canavaro to listen to some on here.
 
LSF said:
I'm sure a few saw Collins (of whom I've always admired for his no nonsense style of defending) and Butler ( of whom I'd heard only good things) play pre season and against Mansfield.
They were, quite frankly, shocking, and had I been manager ( thank fuck I ain't!), I'd have been thinking who I could replace them with asap.
All of a sudden they have morphed into Baresi & Canavaro to listen to some on here.
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Tbf though mate Collins hasn't turned into a bad defender overnight,he'd just lost his CB partner who he had a very good understanding with.It's all about partnerships at the back and we haven't had a settled one all season,now this is bad management whether they have fell out or not.
 
wizadry said:
Tbf though mate Collins hasn't turned into a bad defender overnight,he'd just lost his CB partner who he had a very good understanding with.It's all about partnerships at the back and we haven't had a settled one all season,now this is bad management whether they have fell out or not.
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You'll note my admiration of Collins in my post, always liked him. However his form pre/early season was debatable, hence Clough (unfairly IMO) totally writing him out of the script. Butler did nothing except look Baxteresque in stature, and get turned easier than a deciduous tree in Autumn. He appears to be doing OK at Donny however.
 
LSF said:
You'll note my admiration of Collins in my post, always liked him. However his form pre/early season was debatable, hence Clough (unfairly IMO) totally writing him out of the script. Butler did nothing except look Baxteresque in stature, and get turned easier than a deciduous tree in Autumn. He appears to be doing OK at Donny however.
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His form was debatable,but like i said he wasn't going to be great with whoever came in straight away,just like the rest of the squad really,you will,the majority of time,take time to get an understanding with whoever you play with at the back,it doesn't come overnight.You're right though,Cloughy has been unfair in his treatment of Collins,like he was the main bloke doing every mistake which wasn't the case.
 
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Collins is a sound defender at this level if he had a decent frontman running at him he was in trouble he can get turned easily.
However in this division forwards of quality are few and far between so he always shown to be well capable at this level.
Butler is the best CH in the division
 
Butler is a strange one but sometimes whether a fall out or not (I think there must have been a fall out of some kind but we don't know) itjust doesn't work out.

Collins was part of the reason we find ourselves down here and hss wanted bombing out for three Seasons.
 
Lane Ender said:
Collins is a sound defender at this level if he had a decent frontman running at him he was in trouble he can get turned easily.
However in this division forwards of quality are few and far between so he always shown to be well capable at this level.
Butler is the best CH in the division
Click to expand...

Basham, Aden Flint, Bailey Wright are three better than him.

Collins has been at fault for so many goals in the last three and a half seasons I don't know how he has shown he is capable.
 



LSF said:
You'll note my admiration of Collins in my post, always liked him. However his form pre/early season was debatable, hence Clough (unfairly IMO) totally writing him out of the script. Butler did nothing except look Baxteresque in stature, and get turned easier than a deciduous tree in Autumn. He appears to be doing OK at Donny however.
Click to expand...
thats the problem, why is he doing better at Donny. And not doing it back at the lane. Argument with clough or not, he's on loan, we're struggling at the back, he's ours, bring the twat back.
 
Bladepicker said:
Basham, Aden Flint, Bailey Wright are three better than him.

Collins has been at fault for so many goals in the last three and a half seasons I don't know how he has shown he is capable.
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Opinions that's mine
 
Collins was part of the reason we find ourselves down here and hss wanted bombing out for three Seasons.[/QUOTE]


Bombing out wow that's brutal I only said he was capable:)
 
Tezza1889 said:
I was told that Butler advised Harry to go to Hull, Clough got wind of it and that was that..

whatever really happened we wont get to know, but rather than put his own feelings to one side and put the club and team first Clough decided to "get him back" like a child and loaned him out, he's doing very well at Doncaster by all accounts, could have been just what the team needed, somebody with a spine to stand up to Nigel, a leader on the pitch..

this situation with butler is the sole reason i don't want clough to buy anybody in Jan, whoever he buys he knocks the life out of straight away and turns them into a boring plodding donkey just going through the motions, I don't like how clough treats players that the club pay hard earned money for, what next, sign rooney fall out with him and loan him back to man utd, good managers manage the player for the good of the team, they don't send them away so they don't have to see them in the corridors and feel arkward,, gutless clough, and the rest of the squad seems to be suffering from witnessing this spoilt brat attitude to man management, not to mention how nervous they must feel knowing that's thier fate should they dare to say anything other than YES BOSS..
Click to expand...

Managers manage, workers work or in Utd's case players play.

It's just how a business is and football is no different - perhaps the lunatics should run the asylum?

The trouble is no one does know the full story and probably never will - speculation just makes people bitter as they use the situation that suits their own needs to moan at something else.

Would have preferred to see Butler play, but it's not going to happen - as for not buying anyone else - bit silly really.

If you ACTUALLY did know the full story, and if Clough was right............what then?

UTB
 
Even if clough as had a fall out with Butler, bring him back, play him, don't play him, but for fucks sake let's not help our rivals shall we. I HATE YOU BUTLER, as Blakey would say.
 
flash-blade said:
the way both players have been treat is a disgrace, especially Collins who had a bad game at Swindon along with others but Cloughs bombed him.
Click to expand...

Is that so?

Didn't Collins come out a few weeks back and state that he wants to fight for his place?
 
SwissBlade said:
Is that so?

Didn't Collins come out a few weeks back and state that he wants to fight for his place?
Click to expand...

He did say that mate, but unless he means fighting for it during training, not sure how he can, he doesn't even get a place on the bench
 
Fulwood Blade said:
Managers manage, workers work or in Utd's case players play.

It's just how a business is and football is no different - perhaps the lunatics should run the asylum?

The trouble is no one does know the full story and probably never will - speculation just makes people bitter as they use the situation that suits their own needs to moan at something else.

Would have preferred to see Butler play, but it's not going to happen - as for not buying anyone else - bit silly really.

If you ACTUALLY did know the full story, and if Clough was right............what then?

UTB
Click to expand...
Dont know and dont need to know the full story , its not coronation st its football , lg 1 football and we are going to be part of a long running saga at this rate
 
lets say that Collins and Butler have gone. Why not try Kennedy and McGahey instead of watching our reserve left back and utility player making the same mistakes week in week out? At least the youngsters wil probably get better
 
judge said:
Dont know and dont need to know the full story , its not coronation st its football , lg 1 football and we are going to be part of a long running saga at this rate
Click to expand...
a manager decides he has made a mistake and tries to rectify this by giving the player the option to go out on loan the player accepts the situation and goes on loan he is on better money than he was at walsall the player is happy and clough see s a way of rectifyinghis mistake why does there have to be a fall out same applies with Collins clough decides he wants t o improve on him and leaves him out of squad no need for a fall out as fans you may not agree with his decisions but as manager he has the right to make them if he is wrong it may come back to bite him on the bum. professionals in all
walks of life have to make decisions regarding individuals time will tell whether clough is right.My opinion is we are missing
Maguire badly and clough is still trying to put a solid defence together ,goals conceded from set pieces this has become a nightmare and if we had cut out most of thos this season we would be up there with the 4 runnerway leaders and obviously
clough feels Butler and Collins aint the answer its a problem he has to solve quickly.
 



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