COH - Not skint

[Badger Blade]

The fact we've chucked some money at signing Tanganga, a player we needed in an area we desperately needed to strengthen shows at least some type of ambition.

It's not sustainable to be "spunking money" as we've heard in the past but to just be sensible with it and take calculated gambles at the right time and on the right people and players, something we've got a chequered record with, especially under Wilder post 2019 and Heckingbottom where many of our best players cost absolutely nothing or were on loan. Anyone who we've spent sizable money on has generally flattered to deceive, and I'll add Sander Berge to that list who I don't think we saw 100% of, 100% of the time.

One thing I've been quite impressed with though is the general aura of the players we've signed. Seemingly smart lads who have their heads screwed on and can string a sentence together.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Maybe but they actually stumped up late 24 - when things looked very positive league table wise. I'm certainly not ITK - and what I've said is what seems to make sense to me. I don't think COH are skint but I cannot see them wanting to waste money ad infinitum.

I don’t doubt they had the champagne on ice when they finally signed the deal but they’d have been incurring costs for months before then.

I have wondered if they’d have replaced Wilder even if we had been promoted, although l’ve never, unlike some, believed in the “AI only” approach. This transfer window, assuming it’s not a Corporal Jones moment, would seem to bear that out. We will see.

I still believe we are still short of a decent striker though.

 

[coolasanidiot]

The fact we've chucked some money at signing Tanganga, a player we needed in an area we desperately needed to strengthen shows at least some type of ambition.

It's not sustainable to be "spunking money" as we've heard in the past but to just be sensible with it and take calculated gambles at the right time and on the right people and players, something we've got a chequered record with, especially under Wilder post 2019 and Heckingbottom where many of our best players cost absolutely nothing or were on loan. Anyone who we've spent sizable money on has generally flattered to deceive, and I'll add Sander Berge to that list who I don't think we saw 100% of, 100% of the time.

One thing I've been quite impressed with though is the general aura of the players we've signed. Seemingly smart lads who have their heads screwed on and can string a sentence together.

Ogbene interview typifies what you are saying in your final sentence - the bloke came across really well.

 

[Racing Blade]

No one can say that they haven’t spent money or invested in the squad, albeit at the eleventh hour. But it does seem to have been a scatter gun approach, led by panic rather than structured, planned strengthening of specific areas of the squad, targeting a specific type of player with desired skills, abilities and character traits.

I think we have to put this down to their collective lack of experience of both owning a football club and the future planning, associated time constraints and just the day to day running of the whole business. Instead of preparing for the window, assessing the squad, identifying areas of weakness and targets to improve them, in order to be ready to go as near the start of the season as possible. I think they’ve thought, we only just missed out last year, let’s wing it and see how we go. After 4 games with no points it feels like, they’ve basically ran into the store on the last day of the sales and filled their trolley, in the hope that when they get home, some of the stuff will fit.

Personally, I think they’ve done enough to be upper mid table, but I hope this has been a huge learning experience for them on our road to European domination.

I can't ever remember us bringing so many players in, in quick succession, so it inevitably feels a bit panicky.

I guess part of the problem has been that the gaping holes in Selles' opening gambit were difficult to anticipate until we kicked off against Bristol City and 25000+ could immediately see them. You would have hoped that the friendlies against Nice and Fulham would have shown something up, but maybe the closed doors approach didn't create the level of intensity required to properly test us.

We will soon see whether or not the remedial signings have done the trick, so the consensus, that going beyond the Charlton game without a win to our name equates to an urgent change to the coaching staff, still applies.

 

[coolasanidiot]

I have wondered if they’d have replaced Wilder even if we had been promoted

I think they would have - for the very reasons a lot of us like Chris Wilder, it's for those same reasons I think they disliked Chris Wilder.

 

[Bell4]

Football might not be something they're experts in, they made a big call on changing manager, slow on recruitment this window... But not skint.

So there's one boring assumption/conspiracy we can cross off the moaning list at least.

There's nothing to say they won't oversee a great era that's better than Prince Abdullah's... But it is far less likely if they're being berated by Sheffield United supporters online and in the stadium.

Why would they continue to invest long term if they're getting abuse? Actions have consequences. Can we be a bit classier and more patient than other fanbases?

N.B. I understand it's going badly on the pitch so far, but the impatience and chants for Selles also sit badly with me.

Agree

 

[Panini]

Totally and utterly agree with the highlighted comment. It was all held together with sellotape and string and the lot has fallen down now like a Blue Peter model.

It's uncomfortable but to me this was unavoidable. None of the managers between Wilder's two spells had the scope to change things very much so this period was always going to be like ripping the sticking plaster off.

Someone else mentioned it was like Ferguson at Man United. Too much influence in too many areas failing on one person. Ignored it because results were good enough for the end to justify the means.

It's a hard one for fans to take because knocking something down is quick but building takes time.

 

[SwissBlade]

I was only outlining they're not skint.

Most of what you've said can be put down to learning. You'd think they'd learn from this summer.

You were outlining that you believe that they're not skint, but you expanded on that, so i added my part to why i think that they don't necessarily need a free ride now.

If you're happy for this summer to be considered a learning exercise, thats fine. I personally don't see it that way and its potentially a very expensive learning exercise.

"I don't see that they're really that interested in the success and sustainability of the club at the top level." - this is just an emotional reaction isn't it - no basis for saying that. Inexperience leads to errors in all walks of life - none of what's happened means they lost interest almost immediately in a sizeable and public investment. If they did... Presumably it'd be thousands of supporters slagging them off.

I don't consider that an emotive statement. The statement is made from the position we are in right now on 2nd September. I don't say it lightly and I believe that there is a strong basis for it, not only on the two key areas below, but for the entire club.

Manager - There was no plan. Last summer, Wilder was on a month to month contract before the ownership change was completed, they'd started in the background and there was a strong belief that Wilder would be replaced. Upon completion, we had recruited a squad capable to sustain a challenge for top two and Wilder was not only retained, but eventually handed a long term deal. We lost the play off final, they took time to deliberate, spoke to other managers with experience managing championship midtable and relegation chasing sides, before appointed the sacked Hull manager, Selles... One generic statement about Selles being a culture setter, some mention of promotion and sustaining the club in the Premier League, there was a comment about patience being required.

Recruitment - Based on this summer, i can conclude that there is no plan from COH in terms of their strategy and how that aligns with Selles and the Promotion and Sustainability statement. They have been extremely reactive in the transfer market, generally. They have brought in a number of players since they arrived which are for the future. It took, something like one and a half months to sign a player on a permanent that was close to being ready for the the first team, they have continued with a profile of young players with League one and Lower end Championship experience (often very limited in games). It took until the final week of the window to make a statement signing of Tanganga, the same to bring in experience in Ings and at the very last moment we got Mee. The young lads are profiled quite similarly in terms of attributes such as pacey wingers, tall centre halves, but potential has to also be realised, when you take Barry and Bindon as examples, they are a long way off. The patience comment starts to stand out now more than the promotion and sustaining in the PL comment.

A lot of what happened last summer and in January, could have generated many lessons to be learnt from. They had from February to June to perform their internal lessons learnt and season review. The sacked the manager, thats their perogative, but seemingly it was done without a plan for how Selles was to be back. They were quick to sell, but as they have maintained the entire recruitment department from last season and the Administration within the club hasn't changed too much either (so there is a wealth of experience to lean on). Why has this summer been so slow and reactive to problems? It was glaringly obvious we needed experienced defenders, strikers and defensive midfielders. We got the experienced defenders, eventually and lots of young, fast, head down wingers, but where are the experienced central midfielders? Where is the experienced centre forward that suits this system? We offered McBurnie a deal, but got Ings, very different players.

I think they're interested in running this club with as little thought as possible and hoping for success. They're certainly not behaving like they are planning for it. Just reacting and hoping for the best. And i think if i could be convinced that they are interested in the success of the club, then I don't think that this gets any better for them as i would consider them incompetent. Right now i will stick to my initial statement

 

[brownblade]

You were outlining that you believe that they're not skint, but you expanded on that, so i added my part to why i think that they don't necessarily need a free ride now.

If you're happy for this summer to be considered a learning exercise, thats fine. I personally don't see it that way and its potentially a very expensive learning exercise.


I don't consider that an emotive statement. The statement is made from the position we are in right now on 2nd September. I don't say it lightly and I believe that there is a strong basis for it, not only on the two key areas below, but for the entire club.

Manager - There was no plan. Last summer, Wilder was on a month to month contract before the ownership change was completed, they'd started in the background and there was a strong belief that Wilder would be replaced. Upon completion, we had recruited a squad capable to sustain a challenge for top two and Wilder was not only retained, but eventually handed a long term deal. We lost the play off final, they took time to deliberate, spoke to other managers with experience managing championship midtable and relegation chasing sides, before appointed the sacked Hull manager, Selles... One generic statement about Selles being a culture setter, some mention of promotion and sustaining the club in the Premier League, there was a comment about patience being required.

Recruitment - Based on this summer, i can conclude that there is no plan from COH in terms of their strategy and how that aligns with Selles and the Promotion and Sustainability statement. They have been extremely reactive in the transfer market, generally. They have brought in a number of players since they arrived which are for the future. It took, something like one and a half months to sign a player on a permanent that was close to being ready for the the first team, they have continued with a profile of young players with League one and Lower end Championship experience (often very limited in games). It took until the final week of the window to make a statement signing of Tanganga, the same to bring in experience in Ings and at the very last moment we got Mee. The young lads are profiled quite similarly in terms of attributes such as pacey wingers, tall centre halves, but potential has to also be realised, when you take Barry and Bindon as examples, they are a long way off. The patience comment starts to stand out now more than the promotion and sustaining in the PL comment.

A lot of what happened last summer and in January, could have generated many lessons to be learnt from. They had from February to June to perform their internal lessons learnt and season review. The sacked the manager, thats their perogative, but seemingly it was done without a plan for how Selles was to be back. They were quick to sell, but as they have maintained the entire recruitment department from last season and the Administration within the club hasn't changed too much either (so there is a wealth of experience to lean on). Why has this summer been so slow and reactive to problems? It was glaringly obvious we needed experienced defenders, strikers and defensive midfielders. We got the experienced defenders, eventually and lots of young, fast, head down wingers, but where are the experienced central midfielders? Where is the experienced centre forward that suits this system? We offered McBurnie a deal, but got Ings, very different players.

I think they're interested in running this club with as little thought as possible and hoping for success. They're certainly not behaving like they are planning for it. Just reacting and hoping for the best. And i think if i could be convinced that they are interested in the success of the club, then I don't think that this gets any better for them as i would consider them incompetent. Right now i will stick to my initial statement

Swiss, I'll have to get back to you on this one.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

It's uncomfortable but to me this was unavoidable. None of the managers between Wilder's two spells had the scope to change things very much so this period was always going to be like ripping the sticking plaster off.

Someone else mentioned it was like Ferguson at Man United. Too much influence in too many areas failing on one person. Ignored it because results were good enough for the end to justify the means.

It's a hard one for fans to take because knocking something down is quick but building takes time.

We don't have time. This is the last season of parachute payments

 

[SwissBlade]

Swiss, I'll have to get back to you on this one.

No probs, no rush.

 

[Panini]

We don't have time. This is the last season of parachute payments

You're welcome to believe it's now or never. I prefer to relax and enjoy it rather than thinking there's some Doomsday lurking in the future.

We didn't have parachute payments in 2006 or 2019 and many other clubs have done the same.

The wobbly foundations were always going to crumble, it wasn't a choice. They were held together - whatever that means - by someone who isn't here any more.

I don't know if Selles can turn things round but he's been backed in the transfer market and that implies they have some patience. Everyone wants success immediately, that's not in doubt. Some clubs need immediate success because they've spent and got it wrong. They're in genuine now or never territory.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

I don't think they're skint. I'm not convinced they're rich enough to fund a full-on promotion attempt or a serious attempt to remain in the Prem either.

Tanaganga is the only ONE out of EIGHT purchases who's come in for a chunky fee and you can be pretty confident we'll be able to sell him for a hefty price too.
The other seven... it's anyone's guess if they'll ever justify a decent fee though Mee and Ings are too old I imagine. This is after we've sold both Souza and Anel for chunky transfer fees.

The majority of our signings this summer can either be described as young inexperienced gambles (Matos, Barry, Bindon, Zatterstrom, Soumaré, Ukaki, Polndakov) veterans looking for one last payday (Mee, Ings)or questionable quality (McGuinness, Godfrey, Chong, Ogbene)

It doesn't scream "serious promotion attempt" to me. But with a decent manager we should have a chance in or around the play-offs.





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[PrestwichBlade]

You're welcome to believe it's now or never. I prefer to relax and enjoy it rather than thinking there's some Doomsday lurking in the future.

We didn't have parachute payments in 2006 or 2019 and many other clubs have done the same.

The wobbly foundations were always going to crumble, it wasn't a choice. They were held together - whatever that means - by someone who isn't here any more.

I don't know if Selles can turn things round but he's been backed in the transfer market and that implies they have some patience. Everyone wants success immediately, that's not in doubt. Some clubs need immediate success because they've spent and got it wrong. They're in genuine now or never territory.

Completely agree. In fact, post play-off, the owners, in one of their few communications, explicitly said we may need to be patient. That implies to me (and I accept I may be wrong on this), that there isn't necessarily this "cliff edge" for next season and beyond.

 

[Brian Deane]

I don't think they're skint. I'm not convinced they're rich enough to fund a full-on promotion attempt or a serious attempt to remain in the Prem either.

Tanaganga is the only ONE out of EIGHT purchases who's come in for a chunky fee and you can be pretty confident we'll be able to sell him for a hefty price too.
The other seven... it's anyone's guess if they'll ever justify a decent fee though Mee and Ings are too old I imagine. This is after we've sold both Souza and Anel for chunky transfer fees.

The majority of our signings this summer can either be described as young inexperienced gambles (Matos, Barry, Bindon, Zatterstrom, Soumaré, Ukaki, Polndakov) veterans looking for one last payday (Mee, Ings)or questionable quality (McGuinness, Godfrey, Chong, Ogbene)

It doesn't scream "serious promotion attempt" to me. But with a decent manager we should have a chance in or around the play-offs.





.

My take is that the young inexperienced ones have been brought in as potential to make profit further down the road.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

My take is that the young inexperienced ones have been brought in as potential to make profit further down the road.

That's my take too. Potential being just another word for gamble really.

 

[GymClassHero]

Football might not be something they're experts in, they made a big call on changing manager, slow on recruitment this window... But not skint.

So there's one boring assumption/conspiracy we can cross off the moaning list at least.

There's nothing to say they won't oversee a great era that's better than Prince Abdullah's... But it is far less likely if they're being berated by Sheffield United supporters online and in the stadium.

Why would they continue to invest long term if they're getting abuse? Actions have consequences. Can we be a bit classier and more patient than other fanbases?

N.B. I understand it's going badly on the pitch so far, but the impatience and chants for Selles also sit badly with me.

For all their faults they have our their money where their mouths are - I've been pleased with the majority of signings in this window and there seems to be a good blend of youth and experience.

However they've still made a mistake appointing Selles. I hope I'm wrong about that and will happily eat my words.

 

[andy m]

Absolutely but be realistic we are already 12 points behind. Promotion has gone this season. Just staying up right now is the target.

We are actually 10 point behind the promotion places and 6 point behind where we need to be (if you believe that 2 point per game will achieve promotion), but lets not let reality get in the way of being overly dramatic.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

I have no answer to your question, but only going on the way they have invested so far as they have reacted to knock backs rather than building the solid base of experience first

Part of me thinks it was always there plan to do most of their business towards the end of the window. The fact that we've lost 4 on the bounce probably makes it look more reactionary than it actually is. Their biggest failing for me this window is letting Souza and Anel go before the season started... if you're going to buy most players at the last minute, then hold on to the ones you're up for selling a few weeks longer to avoid being battered in the seasons early games.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Isn’t that the norm for most clubs? We don’t know the details but we’ve not exactly pushed the boat out signing top players on top deals? I’d hazzard the wage bill is considerably lower than at the end of last season. Understandable with the drop in income but we’ve done nothing earth shattering.

I don’t think so no, certainly not at the levels they’ve now committed to.
You say the wage bill is lower but our incomings are lower and drop off a cliff at the end of the season. The board have criticised for relying on loans and not putting in foundation for the future particularly in defence where we’ve two long term center halves who are seen as very good at this level and there’s experience that’s been brought in around them.
We’ve signed a young technical defensive midfielder who could be here a long time or be sold for significant profit, to play alongside two other youth graduates giving us a long term base there too.
Upfront and wide we’re a little lacking in long term options but maybe that’s something for another day/window and we’re certainly have options now compatible to last season.

 

[SwissBlade]

Part of me thinks it was always there plan to do most of their business towards the end of the window. The fact that we've lost 4 on the bounce probably makes it look more reactionary than it actually is. Their biggest failing for me this window is letting Souza and Anel go before the season started... if you're going to buy most players at the last minute, then hold on to the ones you're up for selling a few weeks longer to avoid being battered in the seasons early games.

That's a really good point regarding Souza and Anel, also for Hamer. Those three are big players for us and it would've been sensible to bide the time and let the pressure also drive the prices up towards the end of the window.

No problem to do some of the business late, thats the nature of the game, but at least get some players in for when the season started, we started the season with absolute bare bones and its left us in a terrible position. It was always obvious that after seeing the team sheets we put out in pre season, we'd struggle come the opening game of the season.