Clough's future - changes seem imminent

[Sothall_Blade]

I don't understand why Darren Ferguson would be disastrous. He has a very good record of getting promoted. As long as it was a one year contract and someone else was brought in to keep us up!

He's a wife beater for one thing:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7340149.stm

 

[Silent Blade]

Based on what, Silent? Last season stank. Forget the cup games and the fact that we limped into the play-offs (and limped out without gaining even a draw), there were far too many Crewe/Yeovil/Fleetwood performances to give any optimism about the coming season.



Something I'm sure that just about every other club could say. 'A good squad'? Not really. We had the basis of a good squad at the end of the 2013/14 season but we lost Maguire and Coady and - belatedly - got Brayford back. NC spent too long obsessing over O'Grady while other teams had already got their core squad and just needed to fine-tune.

For some strange reason (probably a version of the Stockholm Syndrome) some think that we, the fans, are to blame for the revolving door of managers citing our 'impatience'. It's not. It's the board constantly choosing the wrong man, pure and simple. If there's any truth in this NC rumour, please let it be because Mark Warburton is out there and not another excuse to get a Danny Wilson-esque factotum* in as replacement.

* Other shit managers are out there.

Dont think we will have the same number of bad luck as we had in 2014-15. We will have taller players and I dont think our star players will be leaving

 

[YES Blade]

Dont think we will have the same number of bad luck as we had in 2014-15. We will have taller players and I dont think our star players will be leaving

Bad luck? Can you please list the bad luck incidents we had over the season as I'm struggling to see how bad luck cost us the 20+ points needed to achieve automatic promotion.

 

[Silent Blade]

Bad luck? Can you please list the bad luck incidents we had over the season as I'm struggling to see how bad luck cost us the 20+ points needed to achieve automatic promotion.

Butler causing problems at training ground (Doyle and Collins involved)
Harry pulling off a stunt to force Clough to let him go to Hull
One of the worst seasons with injuries
We thought we were going to sign O'Grady but a change of management at Brighton stopped that
Terrible ref in 1st leg of play offs
Brayford Injury

I could name more

 

[YES Blade]

Butler causing problems at training ground (Doyle and Collins involved)
Harry pulling off a stunt to force Clough to let him go to Hull
One of the worst seasons with injuries
We thought we were going to sign O'Grady but a change of management at Brighton stopped that
Terrible ref in 1st leg of play offs
Brayford Injury

I could name more

Butler, Collins etc - Poor man management, also if your going to get rid of players you need to replace them
Harry - Obvious he was going to go, so should have replaced him
Injuries - We're not the only club that got injuries you know
O'Grady - Clubs miss out on transfer targets all the time, move on and sign someone who is available
Ref - That's football, but we should have taken our chances and defended better, he wasn't the sole reason we didn't make it to Wembley
Brayford - He only missed one match! Hardly a massive piece of bad luck

So to sum up, your definition of bad luck is my definition of bad management. It's funny how the best managers in football always seem to get the most good luck? Maybe there is a reason for that?

 

[billyblademan]

Butler, Collins etc - Poor man management, also if your going to get rid of players you need to replace them
Harry - Obvious he was going to go, so should have replaced him
Injuries - We're not the only club that got injuries you know
O'Grady - Clubs miss out on transfer targets all the time, move on and sign someone who is available
Ref - That's football, but we should have taken our chances and defended better, he wasn't the sole reason we didn't make it to Wembley
Brayford - He only missed one match! Hardly a massive piece of bad luck

So to sum up, your definition of bad luck is my definition of bad management. It's funny how the best managers in football always seem to get the most good luck? Maybe there is a reason for that?

One of my favourite quotes is by some Yankees player in the 1930s - "I'd rather be lucky than good"

People give me a strange look when I say that, but I like it.

 

[grafikhaus]

One of my favourite quotes is by some Yankees player in the 1930s - "I'd rather be lucky than good"

People give me a strange look when I say that, but I like it.

Or Gary Player, 'The more I practice, the luckier I get.'

 

[Silent Blade]

Butler, Collins etc - Poor man management, also if your going to get rid of players you need to replace them
Harry - Obvious he was going to go, so should have replaced him
Injuries - We're not the only club that got injuries you know
O'Grady - Clubs miss out on transfer targets all the time, move on and sign someone who is available
Ref - That's football, but we should have taken our chances and defended better, he wasn't the sole reason we didn't make it to Wembley
Brayford - He only missed one match! Hardly a massive piece of bad luck

So to sum up, your definition of bad luck is my definition of bad management. It's funny how the best managers in football always seem to get the most good luck? Maybe there is a reason for that?

How do you know it was poor man management? Are you saying that Clough shouldnt stand up to player power? If there is too much player power then the manager cannot run things properly

Harry claimed that he had sun stroke and was making other excuses to miss a pre-season match was the final straw. Who advised Harry to make these excuses? Do you know?

Name a club who finished above us that had more injuries than us (or about the same as us)

A change of management at Brighton was bad timing for us - you cant argue with that

The ref wasnt the sole reason but was one of the big reasons we didnt make it to Wembley

Losing Brayford caused us to re-shuffle our defence and that was bad luck, Clough's biggest fault was to put in Scougall at half time rather than keep Basham in midfield

 

[YES Blade]

How do you know it was poor man management? Are you saying that Clough shouldnt stand up to player power? If there is too much player power then the manager cannot run things properly

Harry claimed that he had sun stroke and was making other excuses to miss a pre-season match was the final straw. Who advised Harry to make these excuses? Do you know?

Name a club who finished above us that had more injuries than us (or about the same as us)

A change of management at Brighton was bad timing for us - you cant argue with that

The ref wasnt the sole reason but was one of the big reasons we didnt make it to Wembley

Losing Brayford caused us to re-shuffle our defence and that was bad luck, Clough's biggest fault was to put in Scougall at half time rather than keep Basham in midfield

Butler and Collins - Putting aside who's fault the fall out was, Collins or Butler didn't make an appearance after 7th October, why couldn't he have sorted out replacement(s) so we didn't have two full backs playing at centre half in the most important match of the season?

Harry - Don't care who advised him, it was obvious he was going to leave (1 year left on contract, bids received in June) so why is it a massive surprise that he left? Again sort out a replacement.

Injuries - Where was this massive injury crisis? Scougall fair enough, Wallace poor record and was always possible, Kennedy same as Wallace. Who were the first team regulars that we had to manage without for long periods?

O'Grady - Transfers fail to happen in football for a variety of reasons, are we the only club who missed out on players? You just have to move on to other targets.

Play-off Semi - We didn't make it because we we're good enough, simple as that.

 

[Silent Blade]

Butler and Collins - Putting aside who's fault the fall out was, Collins or Butler didn't make an appearance after 7th October, why couldn't he have sorted out replacement(s) so we didn't have two full backs playing at centre half in the most important match of the season?

Harry - Don't care who advised him, it was obvious he was going to leave (1 year left on contract, bids received in June) so why is it a massive surprise that he left? Again sort out a replacement.

Injuries - Where was this massive injury crisis? Scougall fair enough, Wallace poor record and was always possible, Kennedy same as Wallace. Who were the first team regulars that we had to manage without for long periods?

O'Grady - Transfers fail to happen in football for a variety of reasons, are we the only club who missed out on players? You just have to move on to other targets.

Play-off Semi - We didn't make it because we we're good enough, simple as that.

McCarthy was thought to be the answer to our CB problem but he was shockingly poor. Admit this to yourself at the time McCarthy first came to us, it seemed that we had made a good signing

Howard, McEveley, Harris and Flynn were out for spells, Ben Davies and Higdon were starting more games than not before they had long lay offs. Done had groin injury problems in March and April so he was used sparingly, same for Steve Davies (foot injury)

 

[Bergen Blade]

Butler and Collins - Putting aside who's fault the fall out was, Collins or Butler didn't make an appearance after 7th October, why couldn't he have sorted out replacement(s) so we didn't have two full backs playing at centre half in the most important match of the season?

I made an attempt at explaining the management's reasons here:

http://scandinavianblades.webs.com/...3305870-clough-explains-lack-of-centre-halves

 

[YES Blade]

McCarthy was thought to be the answer to our CB problem but he was shockingly poor. Admit this to yourself at the time McCarthy first came to us, it seemed that we had made a good signing

Howard, McEveley, Harris and Flynn were out for spells, Ben Davies and Higdon were starting more games than not before they had long lay offs. Done had groin injury problems in March and April so he was used sparingly, same for Steve Davies (foot injury)

Paddy McCarthy did look a good signing but it didn't work out, his last match was Boxing Day, why didn't we sign another centre half before the end of the season?

So nothing really major injury wise then, or did Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston have the same 11 every week?

 

[Silent Blade]

So nothing really major injury wise then, or did Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston have the same 11 every week?

Bristol City, MK Dons and Preston were luckier than us on the injury front

 

[Blade56]

Derby remain a championship club, finished 8th compared to 14th when he was sacked. 1 1/2 years to climb 6 places, all that shows is changing manager has not really worked

But if you look at the fortunes of every club Tony Pullis has gone to it makes the argument that changing the manager (with the right man) does work

 

[Silent Blade]

Paddy McCarthy did look a good signing but it didn't work out, his last match was Boxing Day, why didn't we sign another centre half before the end of the season?

Problems with FFP, players agents, shortage of quality CBs that clubs are reluctant to loan? Do you know?

 

[Silent Blade]

But if you look at the fortunes of every club Tony Pullis has gone to it makes the argument that changing the manager (with the right man) does work

When was the last time we had a manager that got us promotion in his first season when we werent relegated in the previous season?

The answer is Reg Freeman in 1952-53

 

[YES Blade]

Bristol City, MK Dons and Preston were luckier than us on the injury front

Yep they all finished above us because they were luckier than us.

I'm done with discussing this, so just to sum up, poor managerial decisions being put down to bad luck is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[itsinyerblood]

But if you look at the fortunes of every club Tony Pullis has gone to it makes the argument that changing the manager (with the right man) does work

Correction 56, it makes an argument but is hardly definitive. Well done to Pulis of course, but there are probably just as many instances of another manager on the vacancy merry-go-round who jumped from club to club to club and hasn't been able to prevent relegation from happening.....and I'm sure that each club relegated also thought they had the 'right' man who could do a job for them.

 

[YES Blade]

When was the last time we had a manager that got us promotion in his first season when we werent relegated in the previous season?

The answer is Reg Freeman in 1952-53

Watford, Bristol City, Burton Albion and Shrewsbury have all been promoted this season with managers who's first full season was this season and in some cases they have been manager less than a season.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I made an attempt at explaining the management's reasons here:

http://scandinavianblades.webs.com/...3305870-clough-explains-lack-of-centre-halves

Berg , you should put your name forward for a job at the lane , you would be a asset. Sorry but Clough would not answer the questions to explain himself . He has a plan and committed to being right .
We can speculate , but speculation is what it is.

UTB

 

[Silent Blade]

Watford, Bristol City, Burton Albion and Shrewsbury have all been promoted this season with managers who's first full season was this season and in some cases they have been manager less than a season.

But it has only happened to us once and that was Reg Freeman.Out of our new managers when our club is in the same division as in the previous season it didnt happen to John Harris who got us promotion in his 2nd full season on each occasion (came in 1959, promotion in 1961 and returned in 1969, promotion in 1971), Sirrel got the sack at the start of what was supposed to be his 2nd full season, Haslam got us relegated in his first full season, McEwan didnt take us up in his first full season, took Warnock 6 and half years before we went up, Blackwell didnt take us up in his first full season.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Paddy McCarthy did look a good signing but it didn't work out, his last match was Boxing Day, why didn't we sign another centre half before the end of the season?

So nothing really major injury wise then, or did Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston have the same 11 every week?

The CB was a debacle and cost us big time . Insights a great thing . At the time , CB do not grow on trees , and the ones any good are already playing first team football. Other CB who would have been available , ( and not getting enough game time , to be thrown straight in to the team ) , would have been either past there sell buy date , or coming back from injury.

Clough with Collins , Butler and the McCarthy business actually snookered himself.

UTB

 

[DSB-91]

I'd be stunned if Clough goes. I haven't seen any evidence from the board to suggest he's under pressure. Phipps always seems full of praise and quick to assure anyone who will listen that Clough is the right man. If they are seriously considering parting ways with him they're doing a good job of keeping it quiet.

 

[YES Blade]

But it has only happened to us once and that was Reg Freeman.Out of our new managers when our club is in the same division as in the previous season it didnt happen to John Harris who got us promotion in his 2nd full season on each occasion (came in 1959, promotion in 1961 and returned in 1969, promotion in 1971), Sirrel got the sack at the start of what was supposed to be his 2nd full season, Haslam got us relegated in his first full season, McEwan didnt take us up in his first full season, took Warnock 6 and half years before we went up, Blackwell didnt take us up in his first full season.

Thanks for the history lesson, but can you please tell me how football in the 50s, 60s and 70s is relevant to modern day football and what other clubs are doing to achieve promotion?

 

[Ben_1982]

I know Jim is in town later this week. Unsure why

 

[Pedro Verde]

I know Jim is in town later this week. Unsure why

Probably football business he is co chairman of SUFC

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Probably football business he is co chairman of SUFC

The dreaded vote of confidence comes on Friday. Board meeting 10.30am.

UTB

 

[finlaytheblade]

Thanks for the history lesson, but can you please tell me how football in the 50s, 60s and 70s is relevant to modern day football and what other clubs are doing to achieve promotion?

History is relevant as it shows how difficult it is for a new manager to achieve promotion early in there tenure.
there are always exceptions to the norm but it is not just blades managers who have difficulty getting over the line
Big season for clough coming up !!

 

[maxstertheblade]

The dreaded vote of confidence comes on Friday. Board meeting 10.30am.

UTB

What ya mean?

 

[robbiez666]

My reasons for thinking he'd be a disaster.

Sacked twice by the same chairman at Peterborough.
Not exactly well known for tightening defences up.
Lost over 50% of games whilst PNE manager.
Peterborough, a team with not dissimilar expectations to ourselves last August, were 15th this season when they sacked him.
His style of football would require completely changing the squad rather than just making a few additions.

Plus, he's only had 1 promotion hasn't he and that was through the play-offs?

He's had 3 promotions with 'Boro. He also got relegated on 54 points. I don't want Darren Ferguson but his record is good. Especially in this league.