Clough speaks on lack of deadline day movement...
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JOEYDEE
Active Member
JOEYDEE
Active Member
For one,stop saying 'how can I possibly say that ?',its a forum me owd so I can say what I want .
Regards Bray,yes he was a 'bonus' and a 'luxury',no sign of that yet .
Maguire v McGahey?,don't be silly
Injury prone Wallace v Conor Coady ?No contest
Even NC knows we need three more players,which he asked our board to get in..result..?
Fack all.
We will not got auto promotion this season unless we bring in a recognised striker,Ive been banging on about this on various threads for months,with plenty of opposition ,why ?
Porter re-signed,,WHY?,Higdon ..ok but needs someone to feed off him.Supermac ,ok but not finished article,Baxter ?.NOT A FRONT LINE STRIKER !ffs
So we,ve really no one ,not just this window but for ages !
Gonna change my name on here to 'proper pissed off '
Chezzy_Blade
Member
It's a genuine question "How can you say that these players will not be as good as Maguire and Coady based on so little competitive games? Surely you have to allow a settling period and time to gel with the new team mates, formations and tactics?
Maguire took a while before we saw the the best of him, in fact he took quite a bit of cosh for some silly mistakes and a good few questioned whether he was up to it, his finer days in a Sheffield United shirt came last season. McGahey is simply replicating Maguires journey in my opinion, graduating from the youth academy at Blackpool into a relegation battling first team and now a first team regular in a League One outfit. I doubted McGahey's ability at first but he has matured no end already and unless you have some mystical powers we can't really write him off as of yet.
Wallace fair enough had a couple of nasty injuries that have set his progress back a bit but this could well be to our luck and advantage. He is regarded by many as one of the hottest prospects outside of the top flight. You only have to look at Kevin McDonald, he suffered a couple of nasty injuries and his career drifted a little however look at where he went.
I'm not trying to be funny with anyone I'm just putting my points across, like you say it's a forum I can say what I want!. My thoughts and opinions are mine and yours are yours. I am looking at previous examples and trying to balance a bit of logic rather than writing people off simple as. There is no way we can say these players won't be as good as the previous ones after so little time at the club.
Ps:- If you do have some mystical powers and ways of looking into the future any chance of sending some winning lottery numbers my way? Only slipping the Leyton Orient fixture in alongside the Swindon one will empty the pockets significantly.
Woodwardfan
Woodwardfan
- Banned
- #35
1. I appreciate the level of communication from the MD and from the manager.
2. I find a degree of comfort in the fact that we were unwilling to do a panic deal on the final day of the Window.
3. I am a bit perturbed by the fact that we misjudged either the potential availability or the cost of each of three target players.
4. I am encouraged that the club is basically saying to us that there is money available and a clear intention to strengthen the squad even though we won the last three games.
5. I observe the manager and the MD "singing from the same songsheet", and no resentment about missed targets.
6. Missing those targets just might result in better quality players joining us on loan and therefore improve our chances of promotion.
7. I am fully in favour of having a couple of quality loan players in. To my mind having none is putting us at a disadvantage to other clubs. The key is to sign a Brayford or a Coady rather than a Paynter or a Cofie.
8. I don't see why we need a midfielder and hope Reed gets his chances as the season develops. Otherwise we should send him out on loan.
2. I find a degree of comfort in the fact that we were unwilling to do a panic deal on the final day of the Window.
3. I am a bit perturbed by the fact that we misjudged either the potential availability or the cost of each of three target players.
4. I am encouraged that the club is basically saying to us that there is money available and a clear intention to strengthen the squad even though we won the last three games.
5. I observe the manager and the MD "singing from the same songsheet", and no resentment about missed targets.
6. Missing those targets just might result in better quality players joining us on loan and therefore improve our chances of promotion.
7. I am fully in favour of having a couple of quality loan players in. To my mind having none is putting us at a disadvantage to other clubs. The key is to sign a Brayford or a Coady rather than a Paynter or a Cofie.
8. I don't see why we need a midfielder and hope Reed gets his chances as the season develops. Otherwise we should send him out on loan.
1889
Well-Known Member
What I fail to understand is, assuming that Clough didn't identify these targets over his Sunday dinner, why did we wait until the very last day of the transfer window to try and sign three players? Surely we should have had all the negotiations completed and everything in place last week if we seriously wanted these final pieces of the promotion jigsaw? Since I'm fairly sure we were told the exact same thing last transfer window, I can't decide whether the club statement suggests extremely bad organisation or bullshit, but I'm leaning towards the latter. 
Bladesway
Not a member of the reaction faction
isn't this a case of set the bar low enough and you will never be disappointed? I didn't expect us to sign anything on deadline day but had we sold anyone that really would have been a new low.
davidpinder
Well-Known Member
What I fail to understand is, assuming that Clough didn't identify these targets over his Sunday dinner, why did we wait until the very last day of the transfer window to try and sign three players? Surely we should have had all the negotiations completed and everything in place last week if we seriously wanted these final pieces of the promotion jigsaw? Since I'm fairly sure we were told the exact same thing last transfer window, I can't decide whether the club statement suggests extremely bad organisation or bullshit, but I'm leaning towards the latter.
I was thinking about this last night and what Mal Brannigan said didn't really make sense. He was asked about the 3 potential transfers which didn't happen and said the 3 bids were rejected because the players were to important to there clubs. He was then asked how quickly can a transfer be complete and he said easily in a day maybe half a day depending on how far the player must travel etc. He was then asked when negotiations started with the 3 potential transfers he then answered end of July for one, 2 weeks for one and a week for the other. Now surely the one who we enquired about a month ago we had put a bid before deadline day??? But we were told the deal didn't go through because the bid was rejected? Even the lad we enquired about a week ago we must have surely put a bid in earlier than Monday ? He also said you put an offer in and go from there so what have we been doing for a month from first enquiry?
Jim Chimmerney
Can hear the 'Cod Army' roar from his back garden
I was going to mention him yesterday. Both Wilson and Alan Judge were targets last season, both excellent players in this division and both now plying their trade in the Chumpionship. The fact we were after them shows that we know who we need, the fact we didn't get either also shows how hard it is to attract these players. Wilson was injured and then Coventry stood firm but Judge just didn't fancy us, presumably, in our position and went for the easier option with Brentford.
We are a big draw in this Division, or should be, but it still takes a lot for a player to drop down and we need to compensate the higher club so they're not losing out which brings in the fee / wages issue.
Jim Chimmerney
Can hear the 'Cod Army' roar from his back garden
Us: 'Is player x available'
Club: 'He may be, we're looking at a few deals ourselves, come back to us towards the end of the month'.
Everyone is shuffling their squads around during August, some clubs, like us
, did most of our business early doors, then you've got the likes of Blackpool who have only just got enough players to form a match day squad. Because we put a bid in on Monday doesn't mean we haven't been in contact regularly before that and, as it seems, it only finally became apparent that it wasn't going to happen late on Monday. Brayford is a perfect example.
SouthEssexBlade
...for wit and sage wisdom
Us: 'Is player x available'
Club: 'He may be, we're looking at a few deals ourselves, come back to us towards the end of the month'.
Everyone is shuffling their squads around during August, some clubs, like us
One of the drawbacks of a deadline (for all the Sky hype around it) is that it creates this brinkmanship. It only needs one club with iffy finances to decide to wait until the last minute to see if they can afford to buy/keep a player and the whole thing can back up. So a transfer being concluded can set off a chain of others, likewise one not happening for whatever reason can stop a chain of others happening. Clubs rarely conclude a move for a player in days, normally weeks or months of contact negotiating take place and talking to an acquaintance who does this at a club lower down than SUFC, agents can be a right fly in the ointment as well.
It was interesting to see how little activity there was in the lower divisions on deadline day. Talking again with the guy mentioned above, there is a move to use the loan market much more than previously. Expect that window to be busy for Divisions 1 and 2. Not that it's a healthy way for things to operate at all. At the moment Chelsea have 22 professionals out on loan, ridiculous situation that a club can simply hoard players like that.
JOEYDEE
Active Member
Fair do's Chezzy,only time will tell.
I do in fact have some winning lottery numbers for you ...only thing is they're last weeks
itsinyerblood
Well-Known Member
Having followed the forum posts over the last two or three days, the one outstanding omission that stands out amongst the majority of those who believe that the club should act in a near suicidal manner when it comes to spending 'big' in order to secure promotion, is the absence of context when it comes to how spending patterns can come back to haunt you unless you are completely at ease with the way spend now and pay later works. I see that Clough and the board have been referred to as liars, probably as hysterical a statement as I've read on this forum. Yes, hysterical! It's the type of infantile nonsense that follows when the uninformed have no other way to express themselves than by having outbursts that are intended to wound.
There's a small-ish group on here who would be quite happy for the club to go into debt no matter what the consequences. One poster on here mentioned the club was in debt. When I pointed out that this wasn't the case the fragility of this poster bordered on a classic passive-aggressive position of repeating the same question, over and over. It seems that pointing this out to the poster was completely the wrong thing to do, which underlines the analogy of infantilism, this lot of hysterical shouters aren't interested in ensuring the club don't return to a position where it might stand on the brink of a financial nightmare, no, this doesn't matter at all to them that the idea of bankruptcy could actually happen. They probably think this happens to other clubs, and that SUFC is exempt from the rules of business that affect every one else.
Silly terms are banded about on here, thinking things through appears to be followed by the use of the word 'clapper', as if applying one's grey matter was somehow a crime. Well it might be for them, but there are those of us who grasp the reality that having got ourselves on a good financial footing we should then commence to screw up all the good work that put us in that position. It's not so much a case of 'in Clough we trust', but more a case of I appreciate why it's important not to compromise ourselves even though other clubs appear willing to do so. These clubs, these bastions of wayward economics, seem to be the ones our posters point towards as examples of how to run a business. Give it time darlings, wait and see where this profligate attitude gets these clubs. Try and have a little perspective based on the next 3-5 years, that is if you can keep your blood pressure down.
The flow of short, pithy, posts that are sneering and full of contempt for a considered point of view soon get lost within a matter of minutes. I just wish these same posters could see beyond their own limited opinions and attitudes and appreciate that there might just be a reason for things that exist outside of their own perspectives.....but I doubt this will happen, and that what we'll continue to get are the same hysterical, threatening posts that impress no one, other than tell us that there's a correct way to run a business and then there's their way.
There's a small-ish group on here who would be quite happy for the club to go into debt no matter what the consequences. One poster on here mentioned the club was in debt. When I pointed out that this wasn't the case the fragility of this poster bordered on a classic passive-aggressive position of repeating the same question, over and over. It seems that pointing this out to the poster was completely the wrong thing to do, which underlines the analogy of infantilism, this lot of hysterical shouters aren't interested in ensuring the club don't return to a position where it might stand on the brink of a financial nightmare, no, this doesn't matter at all to them that the idea of bankruptcy could actually happen. They probably think this happens to other clubs, and that SUFC is exempt from the rules of business that affect every one else.
Silly terms are banded about on here, thinking things through appears to be followed by the use of the word 'clapper', as if applying one's grey matter was somehow a crime. Well it might be for them, but there are those of us who grasp the reality that having got ourselves on a good financial footing we should then commence to screw up all the good work that put us in that position. It's not so much a case of 'in Clough we trust', but more a case of I appreciate why it's important not to compromise ourselves even though other clubs appear willing to do so. These clubs, these bastions of wayward economics, seem to be the ones our posters point towards as examples of how to run a business. Give it time darlings, wait and see where this profligate attitude gets these clubs. Try and have a little perspective based on the next 3-5 years, that is if you can keep your blood pressure down.
The flow of short, pithy, posts that are sneering and full of contempt for a considered point of view soon get lost within a matter of minutes. I just wish these same posters could see beyond their own limited opinions and attitudes and appreciate that there might just be a reason for things that exist outside of their own perspectives.....but I doubt this will happen, and that what we'll continue to get are the same hysterical, threatening posts that impress no one, other than tell us that there's a correct way to run a business and then there's their way.
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Revolution
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I've been hearing this argument since McCabe turned the taps off just after the Beattie sale.
Where does it get these clubs? Above us in the table, as a rule.
If the last 20 years of football has taught us anything, it's that the clubs that spend the most (definitely on wages, usually on transfers) tend to do the best. There's plenty of data to back this up. There are honourable exceptions - us in the Bryan Robson era, Burnley now - but that's the way it works as a rule.
This club has income far in excess of any other club in this division. Second most last season. Most in 2012-3. It is not readily apparent that this income is being put to the best use.
Nobody wants bankruptcy. People want a couple of players who are, you know, game changing, rather than selling such players and wringing their hands about how we can't keep them.
Us : is player x available for 150k or less?
Other club : no
A month later
Us : i know we asked before but is player x available for 150 k or less
Other club no
Us: ok is he available for loan next week ?
Other club : no
A month later
Us : i know we asked before but is player x available for 150 k or less
Other club no
Us: ok is he available for loan next week ?
raul
On the right side of the wrong car
Why can't you just be grateful we're not Southampton or something?
itsinyerblood
Well-Known Member
You should take note of the punctuation mate
itsinyerblood
Well-Known Member
As regards the purchasing of better quality players, completely agree Rev, trouble is, not sure who, of this type of player, would want to come to a Div 1 team? The historical arguments could take ages to dissemble so I'm not going to bother, but as and when we're in a position to I would hope/expect we'll chase the type of players you mention. Maybe I'm being dense, but has anyone asked Clough, Jim or whoever, about the income from last season and why it's not been used to purchase that much 'desired' player(s)? Bearing in mind the wages that accompany this, it could be that a few million earnt today may not last too long when stacked up against the sizeable wages expected by said players. And all with no guarantee of success to ensure that signing a player like this would become the difference we had hoped for.
Why all the tears and panic?
Some would say that the most influential 2 signings of last season were Coady and the "beard". Were they not loan players?
Are loads of premiership and championship players going to be made available on loan soon?
Are we not gathering wins and points nicely at the moment?
Do we not have a game for a while?
Why the panic and rush when players that we possibly couldn't afford to buy are to become available for loan soon.
Do we trust Nigel to get it right? I certainly do!
My biggest fear is some club poaches Nigel with numerous clubs looking for a manager that can get results and reduce ridiculous wage bills. If the fans at his current club are moaning at his endeavours, then he may be inclined to leave. Trust him and support him
Some would say that the most influential 2 signings of last season were Coady and the "beard". Were they not loan players?
Are loads of premiership and championship players going to be made available on loan soon?
Are we not gathering wins and points nicely at the moment?
Do we not have a game for a while?
Why the panic and rush when players that we possibly couldn't afford to buy are to become available for loan soon.
Do we trust Nigel to get it right? I certainly do!
My biggest fear is some club poaches Nigel with numerous clubs looking for a manager that can get results and reduce ridiculous wage bills. If the fans at his current club are moaning at his endeavours, then he may be inclined to leave. Trust him and support him
metalblade
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Sigh couldn't you have sugar coated it a little more ? While you are at it please tell us all which poster has actually stated that the club should spend beyond it's means, that way your long essay while not sound like such a load of hot air. If not maybe you should join the Speak plain English Society I hear it does marvelous work in extacting heads from arseholes.
itsinyerblood
Well-Known Member
Ah, one of the chief antagonists....I bet you were a wonder at school, always telling the teachers how to do their job, and because they couldn't get a word in sideways you've gone through life assuming that what leaves your lips has worth..
If something beyond a couple of sentences is beyond you, the answer is simple, don't read it. Can I ask, does the society you refer to have a reason why the word plain is in lower case? Just asking like. Maybe rushing your reply shouldn't depend on your fit of indignation.
madeinsheffield
Well-Known Member
If you were a player, would you willingly drop a division to a club who say they are aiming for promotion, yet have failed in recent years? Just as deep down most of us would have taken the money as HM has, would you take a cut? This is why the correct loan players can work.
I think we will get a few decent loans in and ship a few out, players can be released from contracts and it happens more these days especially lower down. How many people had heard of John Brayford and Conor Coady before they came here? There will be other players such as that out there, that's why NC is doing what he does and we are all on here between doing what we do for a living.
Keep the faith
I think we will get a few decent loans in and ship a few out, players can be released from contracts and it happens more these days especially lower down. How many people had heard of John Brayford and Conor Coady before they came here? There will be other players such as that out there, that's why NC is doing what he does and we are all on here between doing what we do for a living.
Keep the faith
Latters
Well-Known Member
You should take note of the punctuation mate
What's the punctuation mate, is it an app?
- Staff
- #55
I'm not concerned either. If the other team doesn't want to sell, fair enough. I'd rather us sign nobody and wait than signing someone just for the sake.
Also, how do we know we "couldn't afford" said players? I'm sure Clough and Brannigan will agree on a maximum value they're prepared to pay for a target. If clubs want more than that, then we move on. There's no point spending more than we think a player is worth just because we have the money available (IF we have the money available).
Also, how do we know we "couldn't afford" said players? I'm sure Clough and Brannigan will agree on a maximum value they're prepared to pay for a target. If clubs want more than that, then we move on. There's no point spending more than we think a player is worth just because we have the money available (IF we have the money available).
SouthEssexBlade
...for wit and sage wisdom
No you're wrong Daz, we should be in a panic and throwing money at it like it's gone out of fashion. We should be spending like Man Utd did and a £6m loan deal with £250k a week salary on a crock, or agree a fee double of what he's worth for a winger from Madrid. Or even better, spunk away £12m on an average forward like Southampton did. Spend, spend, spend it works, 'Arry won Portsmouth the FA Cup doing it, so worth it!
Woodwardfan
Woodwardfan
- Banned
- #58
I agree but it is far less a problem on here than a certain other forum. At least the moderators on here step in to maintain certain standards.
sheffielder
Welcome Positive Nigel
I am not sure where this urban myth has come from where you can't sign a loan player before the end of the transfer deadline. Coady was brought in early last summer. The loan window opens next week and you can only get players for 3 months when it does. They
At the end of the day, it was Nigel who said the team was short and went for 3 players on transfer deadline day. So after buying 11/12 players in the summer we are still short and this 18 man squad he wanted. How big is that now?
Higdon hadn't even trained with his club before transferring to us a week before the season starts. Of course there has been money spent, however we look to be doing everything on the cheap. Nigel tried to replace Doyle and Collins this summer, on the cheap.
Since when has this club been big spenders that clubs think they can hold us to ransom? This pre-season it should have been about bringing in 4-5 quality players and then supplementing with loans. We have brought in a new team and we still need loans. I think that is an admittance that there were mistakes made this summer.
At the end of the day, it was Nigel who said the team was short and went for 3 players on transfer deadline day. So after buying 11/12 players in the summer we are still short and this 18 man squad he wanted. How big is that now?
Higdon hadn't even trained with his club before transferring to us a week before the season starts. Of course there has been money spent, however we look to be doing everything on the cheap. Nigel tried to replace Doyle and Collins this summer, on the cheap.
Since when has this club been big spenders that clubs think they can hold us to ransom? This pre-season it should have been about bringing in 4-5 quality players and then supplementing with loans. We have brought in a new team and we still need loans. I think that is an admittance that there were mistakes made this summer.
I'm one of the first to knock the club if i think it needs knocking,and i do get very disappointed with them sometimes,but on this occasion i was basing my post on an interview from Cloughy a few weaks ago,where he said we will be getting a couple of loans in,so i basically stated If we do get the loans,which i don't see no reason as to not getting them,then i will be reasonably happy,just as long as we get them.
As i referred to above,me too didn't expect anyone in,but thats only because i heard that interview,otherwise i might have felt differently,and as for us selling someone on deadline day,that wouldn't be nice would it,but i don't think it would have been a new low as we have done it time and time again.Overall i'm content atm,team gelling better and 1 or 2 loans and we won't be far off at all.
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