Clough Poll

[Woodwardfan]

125 out of 19000?

Sounds like a Tory majority?

125 out of 321 serious Blades with the enthusiasm and commitment to spend hours on a Blades Fans Forum. 125 special blokes indeed!

A worthy sample if ever there was one.

The result will be a bit like the Labour single seat in Scotland for 40% of the vote. Whatever the pole here it's the Prince who decides anyway.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Can you think of any questions that is easy for a manager to give a straightforward answer? No manager can see through a crystal ball regarding possible changes in the next 12 months such as injuries, being forced to sell players, signing "all that glitters is not gold" players (such as Butler and McCarthy), bad attitude players, pressure from players agents etc. Many fans have a long memory of managers pledges and if the pledges are not kept (which usually happens due to unforeseen circumstances) then the fans would go into an unison and calling the manager "a liar". I went to watch BIFA Q and As when Spackman was our manager and then when Heath was the manager and it was really hard for them to give straighforward answers so I am totally against Managers Q and As

How about something like:

Q: We've had problems at centre half this season, and many fans wonder why we didn't sign a specialist or two in January?

NC: It is something we looked at all season. As you know we brought in Paddy McCarthy in October, but it didn't quite work and we wanted more in terms of composure and passing also from our centre halves. In McCarthy's last five games we had two 1-1 home draws vs Oldham and Notts County, then lost at home to MK Dons, then drew 1-1 at Fleetwood and lost 1-2 at Port Vale. Something wasn't quite working and when we tried moving Chris Basham back there we played better. Him and McEveley were in great form and showed their class, even against Premiership opposition, against some top class strikers.

As the January transfer window shut Basham and McEveley were still our first choice. Kennedy had made a successful come back in the reserves and finally looked ready to play a part. We sent Harrison McGahey out on loan to regain his match fitness, hoping that playing regularly would mean we'd had another good and ready option towards the end of the season. We also had Brayford and Alcock, and Collins was rejoining training at that stage too. Despite this we bid for three more centre halves in the January transfer window, but ultimately the deals fell through. When we couldn't get any of them we thought we'd go with what we had, although another one did reject a loan move a bit later. Remember that we brought in nine players between November and February, and were reluctant to add even more, if we could avoid it, as it can bring instability. The ones we did bring in all played a part though.

What happened later was that McEveley injured his shoulder, Kennedy suffered a set back with his knee, McGahey struggled for form at Tranmere and Collins also looked rusty after his long lay off.

We'd hoped we'd cope physically in midfield without Basham, but we struggled there too. We maintained a hope that James Wallace would recover to play a part at the end of the season, but then he broke down again. We brought Coutts in to add strength to midfield, but he too needed more time to get up to speed than we hoped. Doyle still got stuck in, but couldn't quite help us dominate the midfield area the way we wanted to. We've worked ever so hard with Baxter, but covering enough grass in midfield remained a problem for him, Scougall was injured, Reed lost his form and Holt brought goals, but didn't really help us win the midfield battle. This meant we were desperate to play Basham in midfield, but our injury problems at centre half meant - most often - that we couldn't.

In hindsight we do wish we'd moved on to the next name on our centre half list, but we did think we had enough to cope.


Q: How do you plan to avoid similar problems next season?


NC: We'll be looking at bringing in three new centre halves this summer. Experience, aggression, determination, height and strength is what we're looking for. This should release Brayford (eventually) and Basham to play at right back and midfield respectively, and make us physically a lot stronger, and bigger, as a team. We've learned a lesson this season about the need to hold our own physically. Also when plan A, B and C collapses and you have to field a plan D that will also hold their own. We will not be pushovers next season. We're fed up with conceding headers, let alone trying to think of good corner routines when you've got no six footers in the box!

Collins will go this summer. We'll be looking at sending McGahey out on loan for the first six months. We won't be relying on Kennedy, but he'll meet for pre season training and see how his knee reacts. If he's ok, he'll challenge with the other three for a place in the team.​

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

For me he has to go. The aim this season was top 2 and promotion. He signed a lot of players in Summer and in January so it's his team now. For me the rot set in when Maguire was sold and he fell out with Butler (probably the two events are linked). Not replacing Maguire, not signing a decent striker, not really knowing his best XI. He has to go I'm afraid. He's a nice guy but way too negative. I feel sorry for him but he's not up to the task.

Not a dig at you TexasBlade but the point about Clough falling out with Butler that everybody makes.

Why does everybody blame NC for the falling out?

For example, what if Butler was acting all Billy Big Bollocks and wouldn't back down when NC stood up to him?

What is NC supposed to do, let him get away with it?

Nobody knows why Collins and Butler became out of favour and idle speculation helps no-one.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

How about something like:

Q: We've had problems at centre half this season, and many fans wonder why we didn't sign a specialist or two in January?

NC: It is something we looked at all season. As you know we brought in Paddy McCarthy in October, but it didn't quite work and we wanted more in terms of composure and passing also from our centre halves. In McCarthy's last five games we had two 1-1 home draws vs Oldham and Notts County, then lost at home to MK Dons, then drew 1-1 at Fleetwood and lost 1-2 at Port Vale. Something wasn't quite working and when we tried moving Chris Basham back there we played better. Him and McEveley were in great form and showed their class, even against Premiership opposition, against some top class strikers.

As the January transfer window shut Basham and McEveley were still our first choice. Kennedy had made a successful come back in the reserves and finally looked ready to play a part. We sent Harrison McGahey out on loan to regain his match fitness, hoping that playing regularly would mean we'd had another good and ready option towards the end of the season. We also had Brayford and Alcock, and Collins was rejoining training at that stage too. Despite this we bid for three more centre halves in the January transfer window, but ultimately the deals fell through. When we couldn't get any of them we thought we'd go with what we had, although another one did reject a loan move a bit later. Remember that we brought in nine players between November and February, and were reluctant to add even more, if we could avoid it, as it can bring instability. The ones we did bring in all played a part though.

What happened later was that McEveley injured his shoulder, Kennedy suffered a set back with his knee, McGahey struggled for form at Tranmere and Collins also looked rusty after his long lay off.

We'd hoped we'd cope physically in midfield without Basham, but we struggled there too. We maintained a hope that James Wallace would recover to play a part at the end of the season, but then he broke down again. We brought Coutts in to add strength to midfield, but he too needed more time to get up to speed than we hoped. Doyle still got stuck in, but couldn't quite help us dominate the midfield area the way we wanted to. We've worked ever so hard with Baxter, but covering enough grass in midfield remained a problem for him, Scougall was injured, Reed lost his form and Holt brought goals, but didn't really help us win the midfield battle. This meant we were desperate to play Basham in midfield, but our injury problems at centre half meant - most often - that we couldn't.

In hindsight we do wish we'd moved on to the next name on our centre half list, but we did think we had enough to cope.


Q: How do you plan to avoid similar problems next season?


NC: We'll be looking at bringing in three new centre halves this summer. Experience, aggression, determination, height and strength is what we're looking for. This should release Brayford (eventually) and Basham to play at right back and midfield respectively, and make us physically a lot stronger, and bigger, as a team. We've learned a lesson this season about the need to hold our own physically. Also when plan A, B and C collapses and you have to field a plan D that will also hold their own. We will not be pushovers next season. We're fed up with conceding headers, let alone trying to think of good corner routines when you've got no six footers in the box!

Collins will go this summer. We'll be looking at sending McGahey out on loan for the first six months. We won't be relying on Kennedy, but he'll meet for pre season training and see how his knee reacts. If he's ok, he'll challenge with the other three for a place in the team.​

Top post Bergen Blade ^^^^^^^^^^ what the man said

Probably not far off the truth

 

[SotonBlade]

Nobody knows why Collins and Butler became out of favour and idle speculation helps no-one.

This is pure conjecture, however, could the apparent fall out be down to the dreaded Ched Issue? Did some disagree with the club initially allowing Ched to train before retracting the offer? As more senior players, did they make their feelings known?

 

[Silent Blade]

How about something like:

Q: We've had problems at centre half this season, and many fans wonder why we didn't sign a specialist or two in January?

NC: It is something we looked at all season. As you know we brought in Paddy McCarthy in October, but it didn't quite work and we wanted more in terms of composure and passing also from our centre halves. In McCarthy's last five games we had two 1-1 home draws vs Oldham and Notts County, then lost at home to MK Dons, then drew 1-1 at Fleetwood and lost 1-2 at Port Vale. Something wasn't quite working and when we tried moving Chris Basham back there we played better. Him and McEveley were in great form and showed their class, even against Premiership opposition, against some top class strikers.

As the January transfer window shut Basham and McEveley were still our first choice. Kennedy had made a successful come back in the reserves and finally looked ready to play a part. We sent Harrison McGahey out on loan to regain his match fitness, hoping that playing regularly would mean we'd had another good and ready option towards the end of the season. We also had Brayford and Alcock, and Collins was rejoining training at that stage too. Despite this we bid for three more centre halves in the January transfer window, but ultimately the deals fell through. When we couldn't get any of them we thought we'd go with what we had, although another one did reject a loan move a bit later. Remember that we brought in nine players between November and February, and were reluctant to add even more, if we could avoid it, as it can bring instability. The ones we did bring in all played a part though.

What happened later was that McEveley injured his shoulder, Kennedy suffered a set back with his knee, McGahey struggled for form at Tranmere and Collins also looked rusty after his long lay off.

We'd hoped we'd cope physically in midfield without Basham, but we struggled there too. We maintained a hope that James Wallace would recover to play a part at the end of the season, but then he broke down again. We brought Coutts in to add strength to midfield, but he too needed more time to get up to speed than we hoped. Doyle still got stuck in, but couldn't quite help us dominate the midfield area the way we wanted to. We've worked ever so hard with Baxter, but covering enough grass in midfield remained a problem for him, Scougall was injured, Reed lost his form and Holt brought goals, but didn't really help us win the midfield battle. This meant we were desperate to play Basham in midfield, but our injury problems at centre half meant - most often - that we couldn't.

In hindsight we do wish we'd moved on to the next name on our centre half list, but we did think we had enough to cope.


Q: How do you plan to avoid similar problems next season?


NC: We'll be looking at bringing in three new centre halves this summer. Experience, aggression, determination, height and strength is what we're looking for. This should release Brayford (eventually) and Basham to play at right back and midfield respectively, and make us physically a lot stronger, and bigger, as a team. We've learned a lesson this season about the need to hold our own physically. Also when plan A, B and C collapses and you have to field a plan D that will also hold their own. We will not be pushovers next season. We're fed up with conceding headers, let alone trying to think of good corner routines when you've got no six footers in the box!

Collins will go this summer. We'll be looking at sending McGahey out on loan for the first six months. We won't be relying on Kennedy, but he'll meet for pre season training and see how his knee reacts. If he's ok, he'll challenge with the other three for a place in the team.​

It is a lot easier to write down the answers in your own time than it is when put on the spot in front of an audience when it is a lot more difficult for anyone to give a long and accurate answer like you did

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

This is pure conjecture, however, could the apparent fall out be down to the dreaded Ched Issue? Did some disagree with the club initially allowing Ched to train before retracting the offer? As more senior players, did they make their feelings known?

He wasn't released until October I think.

 

[Bergen Blade]

It is a lot easier to write down the answers in your own time than it is when put on the spot in front of an audience when it is a lot more difficult for anyone to give a long and accurate answer like you did

Yes, maybe that format isn't right at this stage. I remember reading transcripts from fans' meetings with Warnock, where he had a lot of interesting things to share. I remember him speaking of plans to change Jagielka's position, how they managed to change him from a player lacking pace to one of the quickest in the squad, how he wanted Carl Serrant to "fly past" Wayne Quinn on the flank, etc.

The important thing is that Clough is allowed to explain things like the above in a considered manner to fans who are highly critical of him at the moment. If he gave reasons and insight to some of the things that's happened this season, it could serve to unite us and renew some fans' faith in his ability to change things around for next season. If he stays, that's important.

 

[submarine]

How much did he spend in January £1.8m on Brayford, £800k on Done, £400k on Coutts, £3m is a lot in League one, would you trust him with a lot more?

A big fat NO

 

[Silent Blade]

Yes, maybe that format isn't right at this stage. I remember reading transcripts from fans' meetings with Warnock, where he had a lot of interesting things to share. I remember him speaking of plans to change Jagielka's position, how they managed to change him from a player lacking pace to one of the quickest in the squad, how he wanted Carl Serrant to "fly past" Wayne Quinn on the flank, etc.

The important thing is that Clough is allowed to explain things like the above in a considered manner to fans who are highly critical of him at the moment. If he gave reasons and insight to some of the things that's happened this season, it could serve to unite us and renew some fans' faith in his ability to change things around for next season. If he stays, that's important.

I am all for Clough to write down the answers in his own time rather than answering them in a live audience. Same goes for our future managers

 

[sheffielder]

I have changed from out to in, only because I think that Nigel knows his mistakes from last season and I hope the board in no uncertain terms tell him, this is your final year. Promotion or bust.

You have to ask how close we are and if changing means we go backwards again before we go forwards. With Clough, either things improve or we get what we saw this season. Is it worth the risk of changing?

 

[SotonBlade]

He wasn't released until October I think.

Fair enough....just a thought that crossed my mind

 

[Davie Blade]

100% behind Clough

When are you off to join ISIS?

If Jesse Ventura came over from the US and personally waterboarded Clough even he wouldn't be able to get those kind of admissions.

Jesse Ventura?

What's wrong with Sean Bean.

Buy local

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Why does everybody blame NC for the falling out?

Blame for "falling out" is not the main point (although it is a pointer about management style). The main point is NC is the manager with sole control over footballing matters. As such it was his responsibility to sort out the fall-out from the "falling out" which he had ample time to do - a transfer window and two loan windows. He didn't and it cost us. There is no-one else to blame but Clough for that. That is the main point and no amount of attempts to re-write history will change that.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Blame for "falling out" is not the main point (although it is a pointer about management style). The main point is NC is the manager with sole control over footballing matters. As such it was his responsibility to sort out the fall-out from the "falling out" which he had ample time to do - a transfer window and two loan windows. He didn't and it cost us. There is no-one else to blame but Clough for that. That is the main point and no amount of attempts to re-write history will change that.

Who is trying to re-write history, then?

 

[Lane Ender]

A big fat NO

Hes sufaced again

 

[secretchief]

When are you off to join ISIS?


Jesse Ventura?

What's wrong with Sean Bean.

Buy local

Haha, well I was referencing his remarks in the aftermath of the US torture revelations: “You give me a water board, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders."

But I am sure Sean would do an equally good job.

 

[Guesty]

Jesse Ventura is very anti-waterboarding, of course. Very interesting man actually, politically speaking.

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

With respect, herein lies the problem: the idea that if we appoint x manager, promotion is all but guaranteed. Using the "PROVEN" logic, we'd have immediately ruled out Cotterill and Robinson but would have considered Megson. Finding a manager to win promotion just isn't that straightforward and that's why the board need to tread carefully.

For me, this season has been frustrating and, ultimately, very disappointing. Automatic promotion was a reasonable expectation and finishing 20 points off the pace isn't good enough, given the financial support Cloughie has been given.

Worse still, I believe we were only a good centre-half away from getting there and our failure to sign one was an inexplicable miscalculation by Cloughie and his staff.

On the basis that I believe he has built a squad which needs only a few finishing touches to achieve automatic promotion, I would allow Cloughie to start next season, with a clear understanding that a strong start is vital to him still being in charge by Christmas.

I agree about the appointment of our next manager however I still don't think clough has It in him to be up for bury away and sell the vision to the players that they can win promotion.

 

[Woodwardfan]

How about something like:

Q: We've had problems at centre half this season, and many fans wonder why we didn't sign a specialist or two in January?

NC: It is something we looked at all season. As you know we brought in Paddy McCarthy in October, but it didn't quite work and we wanted more in terms of composure and passing also from our centre halves. In McCarthy's last five games we had two 1-1 home draws vs Oldham and Notts County, then lost at home to MK Dons, then drew 1-1 at Fleetwood and lost 1-2 at Port Vale. Something wasn't quite working and when we tried moving Chris Basham back there we played better. Him and McEveley were in great form and showed their class, even against Premiership opposition, against some top class strikers.

As the January transfer window shut Basham and McEveley were still our first choice. Kennedy had made a successful come back in the reserves and finally looked ready to play a part. We sent Harrison McGahey out on loan to regain his match fitness, hoping that playing regularly would mean we'd had another good and ready option towards the end of the season. We also had Brayford and Alcock, and Collins was rejoining training at that stage too. Despite this we bid for three more centre halves in the January transfer window, but ultimately the deals fell through. When we couldn't get any of them we thought we'd go with what we had, although another one did reject a loan move a bit later. Remember that we brought in nine players between November and February, and were reluctant to add even more, if we could avoid it, as it can bring instability. The ones we did bring in all played a part though.

What happened later was that McEveley injured his shoulder, Kennedy suffered a set back with his knee, McGahey struggled for form at Tranmere and Collins also looked rusty after his long lay off.

We'd hoped we'd cope physically in midfield without Basham, but we struggled there too. We maintained a hope that James Wallace would recover to play a part at the end of the season, but then he broke down again. We brought Coutts in to add strength to midfield, but he too needed more time to get up to speed than we hoped. Doyle still got stuck in, but couldn't quite help us dominate the midfield area the way we wanted to. We've worked ever so hard with Baxter, but covering enough grass in midfield remained a problem for him, Scougall was injured, Reed lost his form and Holt brought goals, but didn't really help us win the midfield battle. This meant we were desperate to play Basham in midfield, but our injury problems at centre half meant - most often - that we couldn't.

In hindsight we do wish we'd moved on to the next name on our centre half list, but we did think we had enough to cope.


Q: How do you plan to avoid similar problems next season?


NC: We'll be looking at bringing in three new centre halves this summer. Experience, aggression, determination, height and strength is what we're looking for. This should release Brayford (eventually) and Basham to play at right back and midfield respectively, and make us physically a lot stronger, and bigger, as a team. We've learned a lesson this season about the need to hold our own physically. Also when plan A, B and C collapses and you have to field a plan D that will also hold their own. We will not be pushovers next season. We're fed up with conceding headers, let alone trying to think of good corner routines when you've got no six footers in the box!

Collins will go this summer. We'll be looking at sending McGahey out on loan for the first six months. We won't be relying on Kennedy, but he'll meet for pre season training and see how his knee reacts. If he's ok, he'll challenge with the other three for a place in the team.​

If only Clough was as articulate in interview situations as you are there Bergen. good solid excuses and explanations. Thing is achiever managers do make things happen. The weaknesses in the vital spine of the team began pre-season and lasted throughout in all three departments of the team. Excuses and explanations for failure are understandable but successful managers make things happen and don't need the excuses.

This has not been a budget matter, it's been about poor signings of generally very small players in positions other than the spine of the team not until Done and Davies arrived did we have ANY proper strikers and not even now are we equipped in central midfield or central defence. Missing out on targets is not an excuse and there are no excuses for missing out on promotion this season.

Our very experienced manager has tasted failure yet again and it can be said he has learned more lessons even after 17 years in management, as indeed you do, but to go all season without a spine in any of the three departments and an average keeper to boot is suicidal, not a lesson to be learned it's a basic principle, even you and I know that and not only that we have been pointing it out for months all season.

 

[Blade56]

At the end of last season who would have thought we would have 40% of this poll suggesting clough should be sacked. Who would have dreamt we would be having a poll at all. That's the measure of our performance this season and confidence that we can get it right next season.

At the start of last season we were strong favourites to be League 1 Champions. I was confident enough to back us strongly.

Those 40% do not want Clough here anymore, that's not a healthy circumstance to start next season. Let's hope our transfer dealings in the summer alter the mood.

IF the board keep him he will get backing from 95% of the fans, that's what we do, support the club not the man

 

[Woodwardfan]

IF the board keep him he will get backing from 95% of the fans, that's what we do, support the club not the man[/QUOT

Precisely, I don't want to see him sacked because as a matter of principle any club should give a serious managerial appointment reasonable time to succeed or fail unless something drastic happens.

If I was a betting man though and had to bet whether he will take the club to the Premier League within 5 years then I would not put money on it, there lies a dilemma for the Board, that's their plan.

Of course I'll support him and the team on match days but like many others I am much quieter than I was the previous season. That's because the belief has waned, in fact it's not there in my case, I think he will fail even if he gets us up next season which I think he will. Failure to do that would lead to Clough resigning and not waiting to get sacked. He is a sensitive and honourable man and he knows full well what he has to do after this very poor season.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Who is trying to re-write history, then?

Not aimed at you - just saying that people keep trying to focus the discussion on the blame for the fall-out (Clough might have been entirely correct in his stance and as has been pointed out that it is all conjecture) rather than on what matters, namely it was Clough's job to fix the post fall-out situation and he didn't.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

How about something like:

Q: We've had problems at centre half this season, and many fans wonder why we didn't sign a specialist or two in January?

NC: It is something we looked at all season. As you know we brought in Paddy McCarthy in October, but it didn't quite work and we wanted more in terms of composure and passing also from our centre halves. In McCarthy's last five games we had two 1-1 home draws vs Oldham and Notts County, then lost at home to MK Dons, then drew 1-1 at Fleetwood and lost 1-2 at Port Vale. Something wasn't quite working and when we tried moving Chris Basham back there we played better. Him and McEveley were in great form and showed their class, even against Premiership opposition, against some top class strikers.

As the January transfer window shut Basham and McEveley were still our first choice. Kennedy had made a successful come back in the reserves and finally looked ready to play a part. We sent Harrison McGahey out on loan to regain his match fitness, hoping that playing regularly would mean we'd had another good and ready option towards the end of the season. We also had Brayford and Alcock, and Collins was rejoining training at that stage too. Despite this we bid for three more centre halves in the January transfer window, but ultimately the deals fell through. When we couldn't get any of them we thought we'd go with what we had, although another one did reject a loan move a bit later. Remember that we brought in nine players between November and February, and were reluctant to add even more, if we could avoid it, as it can bring instability. The ones we did bring in all played a part though.

What happened later was that McEveley injured his shoulder, Kennedy suffered a set back with his knee, McGahey struggled for form at Tranmere and Collins also looked rusty after his long lay off.

We'd hoped we'd cope physically in midfield without Basham, but we struggled there too. We maintained a hope that James Wallace would recover to play a part at the end of the season, but then he broke down again. We brought Coutts in to add strength to midfield, but he too needed more time to get up to speed than we hoped. Doyle still got stuck in, but couldn't quite help us dominate the midfield area the way we wanted to. We've worked ever so hard with Baxter, but covering enough grass in midfield remained a problem for him, Scougall was injured, Reed lost his form and Holt brought goals, but didn't really help us win the midfield battle. This meant we were desperate to play Basham in midfield, but our injury problems at centre half meant - most often - that we couldn't.

In hindsight we do wish we'd moved on to the next name on our centre half list, but we did think we had enough to cope.


Q: How do you plan to avoid similar problems next season?


NC: We'll be looking at bringing in three new centre halves this summer. Experience, aggression, determination, height and strength is what we're looking for. This should release Brayford (eventually) and Basham to play at right back and midfield respectively, and make us physically a lot stronger, and bigger, as a team. We've learned a lesson this season about the need to hold our own physically. Also when plan A, B and C collapses and you have to field a plan D that will also hold their own. We will not be pushovers next season. We're fed up with conceding headers, let alone trying to think of good corner routines when you've got no six footers in the box!

Collins will go this summer. We'll be looking at sending McGahey out on loan for the first six months. We won't be relying on Kennedy, but he'll meet for pre season training and see how his knee reacts. If he's ok, he'll challenge with the other three for a place in the team.​

I suspect your explanation is pretty close to the one that Clough would give.
However, all the mitigating factors you have mentioned were known about before the loan window closed in March and he still didn't bring in a centre back.
I will never understand why he didn't do that and it arguably cost us promotion.

 

[Bergen Blade]

If only Clough was as articulate in interview situations as you are there Bergen. good solid excuses and explanations. Thing is achiever managers do make things happen. The weaknesses in the vital spine of the team began pre-season and lasted throughout in all three departments of the team. Excuses and explanations for failure are understandable but successful managers make things happen and don't need the excuses.

This has not been a budget matter, it's been about poor signings of generally very small players in positions other than the spine of the team not until Done and Davies arrived did we have ANY proper strikers and not even now are we equipped in central midfield or central defence. Missing out on targets is not an excuse and there are no excuses for missing out on promotion this season.

Our very experienced manager has tasted failure yet again and it can be said he has learned more lessons even after 17 years in management, as indeed you do, but to go all season without a spine in any of the three departments and an average keeper to boot is suicidal, not a lesson to be learned it's a basic principle, even you and I know that and not only that we have been pointing it out for months all season.

Again though, you do not sack a manager to punish him. You sack him if you lose faith that he's going to get it right.

I think it is a valid "excuse" that many of his targets wasn't signed until January/February, at a time when we played saturday-tuesday-saturday and hardly trained between matches, and thus it was difficult to make the team gel. Personally I would have liked Clough to forget about some of his main targets and just move on to the next ones on his list. Having said that, his targets are now eventually here, we have the perfect time - pre season - to make them adapt, we may have learned a few lessons and should know better what's needed to complement what we have. While the good end to 2013/14 may have made us underestimate the task ahead, there will be no such illusions for next season.

I don't want Clough sacked, I want him to get it right. But I never cared for statements like "In Clough we trust", and if Jason Holt is our first signing and we hesitate in making the right type of signings in the summer, I may well switch to being pretty much careless, or clueless, as to how right we were to be sticking with Clough.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I suspect your explanation is pretty close to the one that Clough would give.
However, all the mitigating factors you have mentioned were known about before the loan window closed in March and he still didn't bring in a centre back.
I will never understand why he didn't do that and it arguably cost us promotion.

View attachment 11668

Great point.

There's an awful lot of 20/20 hindsight and revisionism wrt the CHs and I thought Bergen had it 100% covered. Didn't realise someone had put the case so clearly before the deadline.

The only thing to add would be "no-one suitable was available in March"?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

IF the board keep him he will get backing from 95% of the fans, that's what we do, support the club not the man

Its supporting and wanting the best for the club , the reason a number of fans want him out now. Don't lets kid ourselves , the board will be in the same mindset as the supporters , but football and financial mindset coming into play at the same time.

UTB

 

[WhiteHawk]

In.
half decent centre backs & a keeper in & we'll piss it next year.

We only needed a couple of signings this season. He's signed about 30 players and we still fucked it up. With the resources we've got, we should have pissed this league. He's failed miserably and for that, he's got to go. Nigel Adkins in.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Again though, you do not sack a manager to punish him. You sack him if you lose faith that he's going to get it right.

I think it is a valid "excuse" that many of his targets wasn't signed until January/February, at a time when we played saturday-tuesday-saturday and hardly trained between matches, and thus it was difficult to make the team gel. Personally I would have liked Clough to forget about some of his main targets and just move on to the next ones on his list. Having said that, his targets are now eventually here, we have the perfect time - pre season - to make them adapt, we may have learned a few lessons and should know better what's needed to complement what we have. While the good end to 2013/14 may have made us underestimate the task ahead, there will be no such illusions for next season.

I don't want Clough sacked, I want him to get it right. But I never cared for statements like "In Clough we trust", and if Jason Holt is our first signing and we hesitate in making the right type of signings in the summer, I may well switch to being pretty much careless, or clueless, as to how right we were to be sticking with Clough.

Good point Berg . After having time to contemplate after the Swindon game , i am still divided whether or not , Clough has a plan , or it is a bit of a lottery , in choosing the calibre of players , and his ultimate timing of bringing them in .

Are we better cutting our losses now , than half way through next season. Personally i don't know , what would be the best for the club.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

Again though, you do not sack a manager to punish him. You sack him if you lose faith that he's going to get it right.

I think it is a valid "excuse" that many of his targets wasn't signed until January/February, at a time when we played saturday-tuesday-saturday and hardly trained between matches, and thus it was difficult to make the team gel. Personally I would have liked Clough to forget about some of his main targets and just move on to the next ones on his list. Having said that, his targets are now eventually here, we have the perfect time - pre season - to make them adapt, we may have learned a few lessons and should know better what's needed to complement what we have. While the good end to 2013/14 may have made us underestimate the task ahead, there will be no such illusions for next season.

I don't want Clough sacked, I want him to get it right. But I never cared for statements like "In Clough we trust", and if Jason Holt is our first signing and we hesitate in making the right type of signings in the summer, I may well switch to being pretty much careless, or clueless, as to how right we were to be sticking with Clough.

Bergen I respect your opinion but I never said sack the manager, never mind to just punish him.what's all that about? You said it in reply to my post.

As I say I respect your opinion generally but I picked up on your blind loyalty to Scougall and your unfair scapegoating of Baxter. I don't like your freeze frames to prove a wrong point but that is another matter.

Tell me. Would you try to keep Baxter or move him on?

Similarly Scougall, what would you do.

If we get rid of 7/8 squad players and sign "four quality players to add to the "base we have established"" Which positions would you look to improve, would you sign bigger and more physical players, would you sign a couple of black players (this has to be an issue like it or not), would you sign a keeper amongst the four, do you think we need more than four??

When we talk about "quality players" do you think Baxter is or could be one of those if played in the right role?

Over the years we have had players on our books who I personally would have built a team around. the successful ones are legends but the unsuccessful ones are not. I'll give you one example:- Billy Sharp = build a team to his strengths and he will produce many many goals.

Rightly or wrongly I'd say that about Baxter. At the moment he is playing in the wrong team at the wrong time but you put him at No.10, build all the rest of the team around him and compensate for his weaknesses. Give him energetic mobile runners all around him and just watch him perform. If the manger isn't going to do that then get rid.

As for Scougall, I reckon he has reached his peak. there's only so far you can get with a quick surge followed by a pass sideways left with no look ahead or to the right. One trick ponies are exactly that though I recall his Wembley goal with excitement even to this day, but I now dont know where it came from. I thought he was the real deal but I've not seen one single positive thing this season. Performances like his, Baxter, even Murphy, Flynn, Harris in a way excuse Clough because to my mind he had a right to expect much more.

I'd be interested to hear your views but even more importantly would love to know the best way to see the Northern Lights at modest expense!!! Maybe you would hold a conversation on that subject which might be boring to others.