themaninblack
Old lag
I don't understand how a supporter of SUFC could 'hate' Monty and 'despise' Warnock.
Clough interview sums up feelings on supporters
- Thread starter Borbokisfreekick
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Woodwardfan
Woodwardfan
- Banned
- #152
I am one of those fans who had high hopes for United under Cough's stewardship and I was full of optimism at the start of the season.
By October it had dawned on me just how poor our signings were and how little belief and enterprise the players had. Where last season they played with verve and optimism, this season they have all looked thoroughly miserable, none more so than the management team.
I have changed from defending the manager to being highly critical. No I don't want him to get the sack, I want him to change his approach. If he can't, then I think it's in the club's best interest to have yet another change. Negative Nigel tactics might help us limp out of this league this season or next but where will it take us? The Board have big ambition for the club over the medium term.
As for myself and my wife who travel nearly four hours for home games, often much more for away games, for the first time ever we are contemplating giving up our prime season ticket seats at the end of the season. This after 59 years support by me and 53 years by my wife. Supporting United we are used to dross and disappointment but I suppose its about our age and the effort of it all to watch games like yesterday week after week, with tin hats batting out time for the last half hour. Only if we are not winning do we get players in the final third of the field other than in sporadic counter attacks. Poor entertainment value and IMO suicidal tactics when we've so few good defenders.
I support the team at games as best I can but at home the S24SU Forum intensifies my level of interest and I have guilt about being so openly critical and negative about the management team. The Forum is there to communicate views and feelings and I am simply doing that. I don't expect everyone to agree, in fact I would be disappointed if they did as I have recharged my batteries a few times this season listening to the dwindling bunch of "In Clough we trust" fans. Do fan websites do more harm than good?, well they are here to stay and wouldn't it be ridiculous to only write positive comments.
There are signs to me that Clough was punching above his weight at Burton and Derby. As I see it, he has a poor scouting team and he is an autocratic and peevish manger who employs negative tactics in almost every situation. We are in League 1 FFS with a budget other mangers would give their hind teeth for. Participating on the website I have often wished I was not right so many times!! If I'm wrong about Clough I will be delighted because, as pointed out above, any change will lead to major upheaval of jobs and contracts on and off the field and a complete restart of another rebuild. The Board have invested big money and trust in Mr. Clough.
By October it had dawned on me just how poor our signings were and how little belief and enterprise the players had. Where last season they played with verve and optimism, this season they have all looked thoroughly miserable, none more so than the management team.
I have changed from defending the manager to being highly critical. No I don't want him to get the sack, I want him to change his approach. If he can't, then I think it's in the club's best interest to have yet another change. Negative Nigel tactics might help us limp out of this league this season or next but where will it take us? The Board have big ambition for the club over the medium term.
As for myself and my wife who travel nearly four hours for home games, often much more for away games, for the first time ever we are contemplating giving up our prime season ticket seats at the end of the season. This after 59 years support by me and 53 years by my wife. Supporting United we are used to dross and disappointment but I suppose its about our age and the effort of it all to watch games like yesterday week after week, with tin hats batting out time for the last half hour. Only if we are not winning do we get players in the final third of the field other than in sporadic counter attacks. Poor entertainment value and IMO suicidal tactics when we've so few good defenders.
I support the team at games as best I can but at home the S24SU Forum intensifies my level of interest and I have guilt about being so openly critical and negative about the management team. The Forum is there to communicate views and feelings and I am simply doing that. I don't expect everyone to agree, in fact I would be disappointed if they did as I have recharged my batteries a few times this season listening to the dwindling bunch of "In Clough we trust" fans. Do fan websites do more harm than good?, well they are here to stay and wouldn't it be ridiculous to only write positive comments.
There are signs to me that Clough was punching above his weight at Burton and Derby. As I see it, he has a poor scouting team and he is an autocratic and peevish manger who employs negative tactics in almost every situation. We are in League 1 FFS with a budget other mangers would give their hind teeth for. Participating on the website I have often wished I was not right so many times!! If I'm wrong about Clough I will be delighted because, as pointed out above, any change will lead to major upheaval of jobs and contracts on and off the field and a complete restart of another rebuild. The Board have invested big money and trust in Mr. Clough.
William Henry Foulkes
Big Member
Good, or even great, post. But I strongly disagree with much of the content, perhaps I agree about disagreeing with the holding on to a lead approach, though even that I'm not sure about.
We got to the game about 2 yesterday and pretty much everything we saw was positive.
It's easy to think that debates on the forum have spread into the real life and have assumed the 'importance' out there that they seem to have in here but I got the sense that yes, yesterday was a very important day for the club.
Starting from the premises that there was a lot at stake and the fact that there had been criticism, vocal hostility and even abuse you might expect a bunker mentality but everything I saw (up to a point) was positive.
It started for me when I saw Jim Phipps talking to the fans in our part of the ground at just after 2. He spent about 10 minutes with one small group, and then walked round the Kop, again stopping off to talk with fans. This wasn't just ostentatious glad-handing and baby-kissing, he took his time. Everything I've seen him say tells me he would have listened carefully to fans, and been sincere and thoughtful in his responses. This has been described as brave, I think that's the wrong word: confident, positive, and leading by example.
(Incidentally I was trying to explain who he was to Foulkes Jr Sr and the best I could come up with was his role is a bit like the Tywin Lannister of BDTBL - the power behind the throne - better analogies are available.)
As posted elsewhere the warm-up, team selection, kit(!), Gary Sinclair (I know he does it anyway but it seemed more genuine today), and crucially the players approach to the fans were all positive.
The first half hour was the best I've seen us play this season: our approach play was controlled but also direct, we were constantly in and around their box, we were putting crosses in, the only thing that was missing was a goal. It was definitely one of those periods where you "need to score or you might regret it later". Up stepped Baxter with a penalty. (Kiss of Death - but what's his record with these?)
Time to kick on? Well it seems like Clough's approach is to bring on the opposition and counterattack. I wouldn't describe this as outright negative but I would prefer more of the being on the front foot. Instead we lie in wait to spring a trap. This seems like SOP and I would like to know from him why, after we've taken the game to them with so much enterprise and success (at least in my eyes), do we then change our approach?
At its best this counterattacking can work really well as the opposition are often overcommitted (didn't we create all sorts against Southampton after we went 1-0 up playing this way?) but against many Division 3 teams when we've got players out of position in defence wouldn't we be better, and safer, continuing to attack (it is the best form of defence after all)?
I know the players applaud the fans after the game but I thought they took extra time out to do so and acknowledged all parts of the ground.
Taking into consideration these reservations it'd be hard to overstate how much we enjoyed yesterday.
Even if (OK when
) we fail to get promotion I'm looking forward to next season on the new pitch with the new kit and the core of that team playing that sort of football, though hopefully keeping on the front foot.UTB
Woodwardfan
Woodwardfan
- Banned
- #154
Good, or even great, post. But I strongly disagree with much of the content, perhaps I agree about disagreeing with the holding on to a lead approach, though even that I'm not sure about.
We got to the game about 2 yesterday and pretty much everything we saw was positive.
It's easy to think that debates on the forum have spread into the real life and have assumed the 'importance' out there that they seem to have in here but I got the sense that yes, yesterday was a very important day for the club.
Starting from the premises that there was a lot at stake and the fact that there had been criticism, vocal hostility and even abuse you might expect a bunker mentality but everything I saw (up to a point) was positive.
It started for me when I saw Jim Phipps talking to the fans in our part of the ground at just after 2. He spent about 10 minutes with one small group, and then walked round the Kop, again stopping off to talk with fans. This wasn't just ostentatious glad-handing and baby-kissing, he took his time. Everything I've seen him say tells me he would have listened carefully to fans, and been sincere and thoughtful in his responses. This has been described as brave, I think that's the wrong word: confident, positive, and leading by example.
(Incidentally I was trying to explain who he was to Foulkes Jr Sr and the best I could come up with was his role is a bit like the Tywin Lannister of BDTBL - the power behind the throne - better analogies are available.)
As posted elsewhere the warm-up, team selection, kit(!), Gary Sinclair (I know he does it anyway but it seemed more genuine today), and crucially the players approach to the fans were all positive.
The first half hour was the best I've seen us play this season: our approach play was controlled but also direct, we were constantly in and around their box, we were putting crosses in, the only thing that was missing was a goal. It was definitely one of those periods where you "need to score or you might regret it later". Up stepped Baxter with a penalty. (Kiss of Death - but what's his record with these?)
Time to kick on? Well it seems like Clough's approach is to bring on the opposition and counterattack. I wouldn't describe this as outright negative but I would prefer more of the being on the front foot. Instead we lie in wait to spring a trap. This seems like SOP and I would like to know from him why, after we've taken the game to them with so much enterprise and success (at least in my eyes), do we then change our approach?
At its best this counterattacking can work really well as the opposition are often overcommitted (didn't we create all sorts against Southampton after we went 1-0 up playing this way?) but against many Division 3 teams when we've got players out of position in defence wouldn't we be better, and safer, continuing to attack (it is the best form of defence after all)?
I know the players applaud the fans after the game but I thought they took extra time out to do so and acknowledged all parts of the ground.
Taking into consideration these reservations it'd be hard to overstate how much we enjoyed yesterday.
Even if (OK when
UTB
Great post too, generous though it may be.
Phipps is an employee and has a job to do. I like the way he demonstrates his approachability and think he is sincere in doing so. Yesterday he may have had special reason to talk to as many fans as possible and be seen to do so. His boss was there and it doesn't hurt to be seen to be "walking the talk" in front of his employer. Just maybe it was also an opinion poll on behalf of himself and his boss while they are both here together for two games.
If you thought that second half was positive good luck to you, I respect your view. If it was a one-off I would not be so cheesed off with it all and we were playing Port Vale not Southampton. The substitution of Done for Flynn enraged me and four men back on the half way line to mark one forward for our own free kick at the Kop End said it all.
Maidenhead
Well-Known Member
likewiseI'm sorry mate ...... its the last 50 years of supporting United ( most of the time with a set of incompetent numpties on the Board and with a varied selection of Managers & players ) that have made me such a cynical old twat !!
I do get particularly cross though when we are the "architects of our own problems". There are enough problems, obstacles and variables in the game of football without making life difficult for ourselves. Having said that; I have supported United through good times and shit times, in all four divisions, home and away and I don't expect I will stop until they stick me in a box.
COYRAWW (even if theyre not very wizardy at the moment )
UTB & FTP
William Henry Foulkes
Big Member
This I agree with. I do think we should play (much) more on the front foot. And I would like to hear Clough's reasons for not doing so.
What is the threshold when we stay at home and cant be bothered to go down to the Lane ?
For Gods sake it must be getting bad when supporters would like Monty back !
William Henry Foulkes
Big Member
Death? Although the stay at home bit only strictly applies if you're buried in the garden.
Our correspondent has a history of not been bothered to catch the bus down to the lane and be one of those thousands the players should be privileged for.
Maidenhead
Well-Known Member
I actually thought the withdrawal of a hardworking but tiring Done for a fresh Flynn was a good one and gave us more forward impetus, particularly as Done had spent much of the game out on the right.
I still understand where you're coming from though.
Just a slightly different perspective but at the end of the day the result justified the decisions.
Woodwardfan
Woodwardfan
- Banned
- #163
I actually thought the withdrawal of a hardworking but tiring Done for a fresh Flynn was a good one and gave us more forward impetus, particularly as Done had spent much of the game out on the right.
I still understand where you're coming from though.
Just a slightly different perspective but at the end of the day the result justified the decisions.
I know what youre saying and respect the point.
Changed from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1. Flynn could have come on for Holt. Adams for Holt and Flynn for Baxter would have been my choice and/or even McNulty for Done if Done was tired. We took off our biggest goalscorer to play 4-5-1 against Port Vale. Sad IMO.
Going 2-0 up is the best way to defend a lead.
I like Flynn as a player and would have played him from the start but that's not my point.
What do you mean? Without Clough we may well have been in League 2 rather than the promotion hunt and would not not have had any of the fun cup runs.
Equally, although they are bedding in, I fully believe that he has strengthened the team enormously with Brayford, Davies, Coutts, Harris, Basham and Adams.
Lane Ender
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Brayford is way above this standard Adams is only a kid the rest are L1 Journeymen.
He did steady the ship last season and I have enjoyed the cup runs but this season has exposed his limitations
sheffielder
Welcome Positive Nigel
I am surprised more people don't see it the same in regards to his limitations. After the way we finished last season, this season has been my biggesst disappointment yet, although it could end up being one o the best in recent years. Cloughs limitations will suit us if we hit the play offs
Blade58
Once a Blade, always a daft ****
metalblade
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Obviously you don't know at that time I was recovering from a few heart attacks and surgery don't let that stop you being a smart arse though will you. Maybe your time would be put to better use debating than constantly having a pop at other posters who you don't agree with. You never know tomorrow could be your day in intensive care.Our correspondent has a history of not been bothered to catch the bus down to the lane and be one of those thousands the players should be privileged for.
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That is not strictly the truth about why you couldn't be arsed to go down and 'watch that shit' is it ? Unless your were being spare with the facts at the time. Wouldn't wish illness on anyone ,that would be ridiculous but that is not why you said you were boycotting matches at the time.
metalblade
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Whatever you say fella, I really don't see the need to explain or discuss my medical records with you or anyone else on a public forum, like I say it could be you tomorrow hopefully it won't be.
Out of order ,I wont comment on you anymore and hope you do the same.
longinthe toothblade
Member
Silly, provocative thread
Davies and Coutts have both proven to be Championship quality. Adams is a kid with tons of talent; a kid that can score and hold his own against higher level opposition already.
Lane Ender
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Of course that's why their previous clubs were despairate to keep them
Borbokisfreekick
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Not at all. Raised a very important issue we currently have at our club, and based on the number of replies / debates, it would show that people feel pretty strongly about it.
Even the Port Vale fans thought the same thing! (see Roysviewfrom )
Lord Bos of Eckington.
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