clough aims for top 2.. we shouldn't

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Tezza1889 said:
We should be, but at the minute were 15 points behind and exactly half way through the season, if we carry on with current form we are not going up auto but clough has set it as a target, nothing wrong with a target being set high but didn't he have an option to say anything else, phipps called it a promotion campaign, and I think in order to limit exposure given our position clough maybee should have said the same..
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Maybe he should, but the criticism he will get will in the main be for not finishing in the top 2 rather than what he says in some interview in January.
 



Revolution said:
Clough manages the best supported and most well resourced club in the division. He was coming off a great second half to the season. He had a decent squad of players. He had a licence to bring in, and did bring in, a number of new players.

Sorry, why shouldn't we expect to be challenging for the top 2?
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Yes, agree with this and a few other posters on here. Whilst no one wants Clough out, it is hugely disappointing (for a number of reasons) that we find ourselves not in serious contention for automatic so early.
 
TonyAgana said:
I don't know how much of the brief gets around the managers before being interviewed so can't say whether it affected the scope at the time, although I'd imagine it would put plenty off. It was presented with a positive spin but would still have been quite a dismal task for anyone to take on. Essentially, it was to tread water in order to avoid oblivion. In a funny twist of fate, it's probably a good thing that Weir did such a dreadful job in terms of results that the board were forced to sack him and get Clough in. I'd also suspect Clough is on an improved budget but given some of his manoeuvres it certainly looks like some of the other objectives are still in place.
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Cheers Tony. That's exactly how I read it at the time.

This was the point when McCabe said the club had to pay its own way. Basically the wage bill of some £4.5m had to go below £3m so no more big contracts, no replacement of senior players when their contracts ended, extreme dependance on youth development with some essential income from sales of youngsters. The club had to change from losing £1m p. month to paying its own way. Stuart McCall would have loved to return but he and others could see it was a poisoned chalice. Why David Weir took it on those terms is hard to fathom.

Amazingly Weir was appointed in summer and by September 1st the new ownership was announced.

Weir had been working under the "Mission Impossible" brief and was a real victim of circumstances. He was ambitiously trying to bring in a new culture and his project was always going to take a long while but almost before he got going the club had changed it's funding anyway.

The new money from the prince made it possible to attract Clough who wouldn't have touched us with a bargepole on the other budget - why should he have?
 
In the final analysis I think Clough and the board will reflect that our success in the cups ws a mixed blessing. It lifted the profile of the club, brought in extra income but scuppered our chances of achieving automatic promotion. Goodness knows how many extra games we will have played in due course but sheer fatigue as well as suspensions and injuries have to take their toll.

My own opinion is that the failure to sign two quality strikers has left us way short anyway. We have bumbled along for some 36 games without them.
 
The season is 1 game either way exactly at half way

If swindon can get16 points in front of us in 23 ergo its wholly possible we can get 16 points in front of them .

All teams have runs where the form goes , thats why few clubs get 90 to 100 points

We know from bitter experience what its like to get 90 points and not go up , it could happen to swindon or bristol city if we can chase them down
 
blade too long said:
The season is 1 game either way exactly at half way

If swindon can get16 points in front of us in 23 ergo its wholly possible we can get 16 points in front of them .

All teams have runs where the form goes , thats why few clubs get 90 to 100 points

We know from bitter experience what its like to get 90 points and not go up , it could happen to swindon or bristol city if we can chase them down
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Very true, but the trouble is that Preston and MKD have such big leads too and to overhaul all three would be hardly possible.
 
Pinchy said:
Some will only hear what they want to hear, in any event.

We are constantly told that NC will never play two up front, ignoring his quite recent interview (on RS - I heard it with my very own ears!) where he said he was looking forward to seeing COG and McN as a partnership.

I suppose the agenda has to be maintained at all costs....
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To add to that, after Saturdays game the interviewer mentioned playing one up top with 5 in midfield, clough quickly said "we prefer to look at it as 3 up top" he expanded on this stating that it often looks like one as the two wider players also have defensive duties but the intent is to get 3 up front as often as possible.
 
Cant believe folk would write it off so easily. There's another 69 points to play for. I do think Bristol will win the league but once the injuries and suspensions kick in I can see us looking stronger than most. That gap is fuck all!
 
Woodwardfan said:
Very true, but the trouble is that Preston and MKD have such big leads too and to overhaul all three would be hardly possible.
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nothing to do then that swindons an extra 6 points in front due to 2 games more played and won


the lead is catchable ,23 games is a long way to go, it means we have to win more games than we have been doing , but thats the point , getting into a rythym of winning, if we can make up 1 win a month for jan feb march and april we have a game in hand of bristol and 2 in hand on swindon then it will come down to last day
we wont close the gap till april but we can bring it down in stages

did anyone in january last year really believe we would finish 7th
we were 14 points behind posh after 23 games having played the same number of games , so yes its do able
 
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Woodwardfan said:
Cheers Tony. That's exactly how I read it at the time.

This was the point when McCabe said the club had to pay its own way. Basically the wage bill of some £4.5m had to go below £3m so no more big contracts, no replacement of senior players when their contracts ended, extreme dependance on youth development with some essential income from sales of youngsters. The club had to change from losing £1m p. month to paying its own way. Stuart McCall would have loved to return but he and others could see it was a poisoned chalice. Why David Weir took it on those terms is hard to fathom.

Amazingly Weir was appointed in summer and by September 1st the new ownership was announced.

Weir had been working under the "Mission Impossible" brief and was a real victim of circumstances. He was ambitiously trying to bring in a new culture and his project was always going to take a long while but almost before he got going the club had changed it's funding anyway.

The new money from the prince made it possible to attract Clough who wouldn't have touched us with a bargepole on the other budget - why should he have?
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I don't know, it was a tough brief but appointing Weir made it look like a poisoned chalice. The guy was clueless and far too green. I reckon there's still plenty of the remit still in place but Clough is much better experienced and respected to be at the helm, to make the most of what he's given, to attract the loan players needed, to be ballsy in the face of unhappy players and fans, be professional and protect the board, all of it.
 
blade too long said:
nothing to do then that swindons an extra 6 points in front due to 2 games more played and won


the lead is catchable ,23 games is a long way to go, it means we have to win more games than we have been doing , but thats the point , getting into a rythym of winning, if we can make up 1 win a month for jan feb march and april we have a game in hand of bristol and 2 in hand on swindon then it will come down to last day
we wont close the gap till april but we can bring it down in stages

did anyone in january last year really believe we would finish 7th
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As I said to you, it's perfectly possible to catch one team and I suppose maybe even two. However to catch and overhaul two teams out of four all well above us at this stage would be almost miraculous. I hope we do.
 



Woodwardfan said:
As I said to you, it's perfectly possible to catch one team and I suppose maybe even two. However to catch and overhaul two teams out of four all well above us at this stage would be almost miraculous. I hope we do.
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we over hauled 15 teams last season after xmas we only need to overhaul 4
 
TonyAgana said:
I don't know, it was a tough brief but appointing Weir made it look like a poisoned chalice. The guy was clueless and far too green. I reckon there's still plenty of the remit still in place but Clough is much better experienced and respected to be at the helm, to make the most of what he's given, to attract the loan players needed, to be ballsy in the face of unhappy players and fans, be professional and protect the board, all of it.
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Tony. Weir had to make the club pay it's own way. I can't defend Weir's inexperience and wouldn't wish to, however his brief was to slash the wage bill and that was always "mission impossible". Clough has not had to do that, indeed quite the opposite.

The prince has subsidised United to the tune of £8m by last month. That's a big difference in the modus-operandi and directly affects the tools the manager has to do the job.
 
blade too long said:
we over hauled 15 teams last season after xmas we only need to overhaul 4
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I love your optimism, good on 'yer. But we didn't overhaul the top 6. Tell me that we caught up and overhauled 15 points on the top two in the league and 9 points on the third and fourth teams, then I'm with you.
 
Woodwardfan said:
I love your optimism, good on 'yer. But we didn't overhaul the top 6. Tell me that we caught up and overhauled 15 points on the top two in the league and 9 points on the third and fourth teams, then I'm with you.
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we can start by winning at mk dons , beating bristol and beating swindon , and win our game/s in hands and suddenly its only 3 wins the difference , but its all down to us coming up with the wins , which is easy to plan but harder to achieve , but if we are to make 1st or 2nd we have to win these games

Lets not forget in recent seasons no one thought theyd catch Tanmere and then Leyton Orient but they both imploded
 
Woodwardfan said:
Tony. Weir had to make the club pay it's own way. I can't defend Weir's inexperience and wouldn't wish to, however his brief was to slash the wage bill and that was always "mission impossible". Clough has not had to do that, indeed quite the opposite.

The prince has subsidised United to the tune of £8m by last month. That's a big difference in the modus-operandi and directly affects the tools the manager has to do the job.
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I mentioned earlier that Weir's abject failure may have been a twist of fate in that the board had a rethink on their strategy but it still looks like Clough has to work within a very restrictive set of guidelines, relying heavily on our youth, the loan market, VERY limited transfer fees (£80k?!) - I'm sure it's a much more positive boardroom now with the Prince's money but has the wage budget gone up significantly since Weir left? I think the only difference is that we have been able to skip a couple of dark transfer windows.
 
This time last year we were 19th and 14 places from playoffs, after a hell of a run we wound up 7 points short of 6th.

This year its 15 off top 2 with 2 games in hand over one of them, I want to believe - but 15 is a huge gap
 
blade too long said:
we can start by winning at mk dons , beating bristol and beating swindon , and win our game/s in hands and suddenly its only 3 wins the difference , but its all down to us coming up with the wins , which is easy to plan but harder to achieve , but if we are to make 1st or 2nd we have to win these games

Lets not forget in recent seasons no one thought theyd catch Tanmere and then Leyton Orient but they both imploded
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And Wednesday caught us that year:eek: I'm with you and I've just listened to Clough and he's up for it too.:cool:
 
Tezza1889 said:
This is what is at stake by an overreaction, we have a manager capable of outwitting premier league teams, if were we to be promoted we would do it with a style of football that would hold its own in the higher divisions, this is down to how clough sets the team out, its a great target to set,.possibly the only one the board and fans would be ok with, but let's not hound clough out if it doesn't happen...
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I'm not suggesting that NC be hounded at all. Just trying to get some of you more "excitable" guys down to earth, because I cannot believe there is anybody, particularly NC, who realistically believes that this squad can even compete over 2 games in the play-offs, and certainly the only chance we have of automatic would be if Bristol C, Swindon, MKD AND Preston were all deducted 25 points for some dastardly crime against football ! :confused:

We are simply not suited in terms of players and tactics, for this agricultural Division, with the current squad. I don't like it at all, but I'm resigned to another season in this Division because I don't believe we will do major surgery on the squad in the JTW. :(
UTB & FTP
 
Revolution said:
Clough manages the best supported and most well resourced club in the division. He was coming off a great second half to the season. He had a decent squad of players. He had a licence to bring in, and did bring in, a number of new players.

Sorry, why shouldn't we expect to be challenging for the top 2?
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What we expected at the start of the season and what is realistic now are two very different things. We took the decision to try to get promoted on the cheap this season and went with quantity rather than quality, which has proven to be an error of judgement by the Board. They have not given NC the resources he required to build an automatic promotion squad, which is why we are where we are in the League.

IMHO, we are 4 / 5 decent players away from a top two side. If it doesn't happen next season, I would suggest that there will be lots of searching questions asked of the Board regarding resources.
UTB & FTP
 
its all about momentum , imagine if by some miracle we overcome spurs, be it a keeper getting sent off an horrendous penaslty in our favour but the boost wed get from that would mirror last seasons fa cup boost to our form , teams can go on long winning runs to get in amongst it late on , we can only hope its our turn
 



alcoblade said:
The 15 that we overhauled were mid table dross, not the best 4 teams in the division.

UTB
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the chase is the same they will lose and draw games they all play each other too they all will lose to some lower teams , we are not chasing real madrid and barcelona
 
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