Chris Wilder's position as Sheffield United boss

[Carlton Blade]

I see that as part of a handy narrative. Like any data it can be manipulated and using net spend does that in this case. How are Sheffield United supposed to go from L1 to staying in the Premier league and keep net spend down? They have no assets to sell if they’re going to grow. Leicester and Liverpool aren’t on the list because it gives them the benefit of big sales and the fact they weren’t starting from the same place. They should be judged like for like, not manipulated in order to distort the true picture.
That £117M would easily be covered by the assets acquired and we have to buy promising talent rather than the finished article due to financial constraints the other teams don’t have, namely wages.
This is bias on my part, but I genuinely believe all our major purchases will become success’ and worth more than we’ve paid, but for that I think we need to keep the coaching team in place to ensure that continuity and growth.

The problem with paying peak/premium value for players, which apart from Bogle we have is they need to be almost perfect signings to even justify the fee never mind provide future value.

As it stands now none of non Bogle signings have added value to the fee we've paid and Id say they woukd be unlikely to return what we paid for them. Doesn't make them bad players, just that it's unlikely to have big resale profit value

 

[Dutch Blade]

Wasn't Berge signed via this sort of route? A player most agree is good but doesn't fit the system. Personally I think wilder has still done well with transfers. Up till the premier league it was brilliant and whilst the recent signings have not hit the ground running they were signed for their long term prospects and certainly shouldn't be written off as bad transfers.

Wilder has done a fantastic job signing players that can excell in the Championship and even compete in the Premier League with the right tactics, but we can't deny that his signings from the last two seasons on average are just not good enough to perform in the Premier League quality wise. Sure, Wilder could still use great tactics and manage to get something out of it, but on pure player performance they are not good enough.

That doesn't necessarily means that we should just give Wilder no say in the transfers at all, just that his "monopoly" on deciding which players are coming in should maybe turn into a discussion board, in which Wilder still has a big say ofcourse. Hopefully that works out, because Wilder is the best manager for our club and we should keep him on board no matter what.

 

[Snowflake]

Seriously? Not a single player in the whole world of football?

Not one that we wanted. Apologies for the confusion

 

[Carlton Blade]

Not one that we wanted. Apologies for the confusion

And that doesn't strike you as an issue?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

The problem with paying peak/premium value for players, which apart from Bogle we have is they need to be almost perfect signings to even justify the fee never mind provide future value.

As it stands now none of non Bogle signings have added value to the fee we've paid and Id say they woukd be unlikely to return what we paid for them. Doesn't make them bad players, just that it's unlikely to have big resale profit value

A major part in a successful season in the Championship would put Brewster, McBurnie and Ramsdale and they would be commanding fees higher than we paid. On this I know we’ll disagree but if you look at the going rate for the top players being taken from the championship the level is already higher than what we paid.

 

[Carlton Blade]

A major part in a successful season in the Championship would put Brewster, McBurnie and Ramsdale and they would be commanding fees higher than we paid. On this I know we’ll disagree but if you look at the going rate for the top players being taken from the championship the level is already higher than what we paid.

Brewster is the only one with a very, very slim chance of going for a higher fee. McBurnie has failed at the top level and Ramsdale has been relegated twice

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Brewster is the only one with a very, very slim chance of going for a higher fee. McBurnie has failed at the top level and Ramsdale has been relegated twice

And yet if we’re promoted they will be coming back up with form and experience. If they got 20 goals plus next season and someone wanted them, they’d command a higher fee than we paid.
As for Ramsdale, the England under 21 keeper on the back of a successful season with 2 PL seasons behind him one of which where we was voted player of the season. Are you serious? PL Clubs were already linked with him for the summer only this week.

 

[Carlton Blade]

And yet if we’re promoted they will be coming back up with form and experience. If they got 20 goals plus next season and someone wanted them, they’d command a higher fee than we paid.

Who's paying £20m+ for McBurnie because he reproved he's a good Championship forward?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Who's paying £20m+ for McBurnie because he reproved he's a good Championship forward?

Anyone looking for the top forwards from the Championship, it’s under the going rate, although I’d doubt we’d be selling any of them.
Brentford paid £10m for Toney from league one.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Anyone looking for the top forwards from the Championship, it’s under the going rate, although I’d doubt we’d be selling any of them.
Brentford paid £10m for Toney from league one.

Ivan Toney completely dominated that league. And it's £10m if he hits all incentives. And he hadn't already failed in the division he went to. And the gap between L1 and the Championship is much smaller than the one to the PL. It's not a comparison.

 

[BushBlade]

We disagree in how much at fault Wilder is but I want nothing to do with further Saudi investment thanks

I’m not convinced PA wants to dilute ownership of the club. There are only two types of investment; I loan your business money at an agreed rate of interest or for a share of profit, or I buy equity in your business and become a partner, taking a share of profit equal to my share of ownership, in perpetuity.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I’m not convinced PA wants to dilute ownership of the club. There are only two types of investment; I loan your business money at an agreed rate of interest or for a share of profit, or I buy equity in your business and become a partner, taking a share of profit equal to my share of ownership, in perpetuity.

I just don't want decisions about the club being influenced by Saudi Arabia

 

[Snowflake]

And that doesn't strike you as an issue?

It is an issue, but there are many aspects to a move.
Clearly money is a large one, but family, schooling, partner’s job all come into it.
Today’s article in the Telegraph has a much more reasoned view than the Mail. It indicates a top salary at United of £65k a week, which if true removes the myth that we pay very little, albeit less than many

 

[Carlton Blade]

It is an issue, but there are many aspects to a move.
Clearly money is a large one, but family, schooling, partner’s job all come into it.
Today’s article in the Telegraph has a much more reasoned view than the Mail. It indicates a top salary at United of £65k a week, which if true removes the myth that we pay very little, albeit less than many

I'm al for a reasoned debate on what gone wrong and where we can improve. Everyone involved has some responsibility

 

[Yogi]

Ivan Toney completely dominated that league. And it's £10m if he hits all incentives. And he hadn't already failed in the division he went to. And the gap between L1 and the Championship is much smaller than the one to the PL. It's not a comparison.

Toney is on the comeback trail a bit though after his dodgy spell at Newcastle and not tearing up trees whilst on loan from there after his early big money move from Northampton. Granted he was young at the time but this is his second rise up through the leagues.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Ivan Toney completely dominated that league. And it's £10m if he hits all incentives. And he hadn't already failed in the division he went to. And the gap between L1 and the Championship is much smaller than the one to the PL. It's not a comparison.

We disagree as per usual, but interesting to see for Toney you use the total amount they could pay to defend him, yet while judging our players worth you use the same figure.
You also gave him a pass for failing while young, dropping down and reproving themselves at that lower level and using that confidence as a spring board. It’s exactly the charge you levelled at McBurnie should he have a top season next year in the Championship.
You seem to judge us and our players by a much higher bar.

 

[Snowflake]

I'm al for a reasoned debate on what gone wrong and where we can improve. Everyone involved has some responsibility

Like any business there needs to be a review at the end of the season even when successful, but this time it needs to be more in depth. Any shortcomings by anyone involved need to be rectified regardless of which league we are in

 

[Pedro Verde]

I just don't want decisions about the club being influenced by Saudi Arabia

If the Prince is to bring new imvestment on board it is likely to be from Saudi Arabia
What influence do think new money from there might have apart from increasing our budget for player wages and transfer fees. I wouldnt have a problem as long as the Prince remained in control of the club

 

[Carlton Blade]

If the Prince is to bring new imvestment on board it is likely to be from Saudi Arabia
What influence do think new money from there might have apart from increasing our budget for player wages and transfer fees. I wouldnt have a problem as long as the Prince remained in control of the club

You don't get anything for nothing. The current owners distance from the rest of the royal family is just about acceptable. Any further investment from that route would come with provisos

 

[Pedro Verde]

You don't get anything for nothing. The current owners distance from the rest of the royal family is just about acceptable. Any further investment from that route would come with provisos

Who says it would be from the Royal Family ? Plenty of other wealthy Saudis
What privisos would they be ? No women in the ground ?
By your mantra we would be reliant on money SUFC could solely generate. The Prince does not have the wealth to fund a club looking to establish itself in the PL . What this season has taught us is that further investment would be required if we want to stay in the PL for any length of time

 

[Carlton Blade]

Who says it would be from the Royal Family ? Plenty of other wealthy Saudis
What privisos would they be ?
By your mantra we would be reliant on money SUFC could solely generate. The Prince does not have the wealth to fund a club looking to establish itself in the PL . What this season has taught us is that further investment would be required if we want to stay in the PL for any length of time

By my proviso money doesn't come out of SA unless the royal family want it to. The same people who murdered a journalist among many other things I don't want United associated with

 

[Pedro Verde]

By my proviso money doesn't come out of SA unless the royal family want it to. The same people who murdered a journalist among many other things I don't want United associated with

How has the Prince invested in SUFC and the other clubs he owns ?
He must have had Royal approval ? If so SUFC is associated with the Saudi Royal family

 

[Carlton Blade]

We disagree as per usual, but interesting to see for Toney you use the total amount they could pay to defend him, yet while judging our players worth you use the same figure.
You also gave him a pass for failing while young, dropping down and reproving themselves at that lower level and using that confidence as a spring board. It’s exactly the charge you levelled at McBurnie should he have a top season next year in the Championship.
You seem to judge us and our players by a much higher bar.

You've taken a he'll of a lot of supposition for me saying Toney and McBurnie aren't a fair comparison!!

Who have I given a pass to? Why is judging McBurnie having struggled in the top division subjective?

The McBurnie fee is set. You're arguing different points to me

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Who's paying £20m+ for McBurnie because he reproved he's a good Championship forward?

Ivan Toney completely dominated that league. And it's £10m if he hits all incentives. And he hadn't already failed in the division he went to.

Yeah you kinda did. McBurnie won’t cost 20m unless he his all targets. Toney has struggled at the level above league one as a younger man. Also note I’m saying this as someone who wanted us to sign Toney last season once we were clearly out of the Watkins race and I’d love with with McBurnie and Brewster as our forward line, but it’s never going to happen now. He’ll be too expensive because of all the reasons I made at the start. The price for top championship talent has increased beyond what we paid.

 

[Davalon]

So it's all going to shit then.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Yeah you kinda did. McBurnie won’t cost 20m unless he his all targets. Toney has struggled at the level above league one as a younger man. Also note I’m saying this as someone who wanted us to sign Toney last season once we were clearly out of the Watkins race and I’d love with with McBurnie and Brewster as our forward line, but it’s never going to happen now. He’ll be too expensive because of all the reasons I made at the start. The price for top championship talent has increased beyond what we paid.

According to everything released on our deals they are full fee regardless of performance. If you know more, cool

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I see that as part of a handy narrative. Like any data it can be manipulated and using net spend does that in this case. How are Sheffield United supposed to go from L1 to staying in the Premier league and keep net spend down? They have no assets to sell if they’re going to grow. Leicester and Liverpool aren’t on the list because it gives them the benefit of big sales and the fact they weren’t starting from the same place. They should be judged like for like, not manipulated in order to distort the true picture.
That £117M would easily be covered by the assets acquired and we have to buy promising talent rather than the finished article due to financial constraints the other teams don’t have, namely wages.
This is bias on my part, but I genuinely believe all our major purchases will become success’ and worth more than we’ve paid, but for that I think we need to keep the coaching team in place to ensure that continuity and growth.

Very good point. Can’t really think of any players that we’ve sold recently.

I just hope this Wilder vs Prince fiasco goes because it’s unhealthy and splitting the fan base.

 

[Johnstreetstand]

why do they need to be memorable ?

but as you ask
Tottenham
Everton
Liverpool
Leicester

Always some smart arse to read too much into a question.
call me Old and or Oldfashioned , but I have never really taken onboard who these DoF are and what they actually do. Obviously not high profile and in your face like manager or coaches are, but who they are and what they do has never been on my radar. Now I see some on here are calling for us to have one , even if it means losing one of our most successful managers. As I said, I am curious. Every days a school day.
so can you name them? Or do you need to google it first?

 

[Carlton Blade]

According to everything released on our deals they are full fee regardless of performance. If you know more, cool

Flatulent_Bob It wasn't meant to sound that mardy

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Flatulent_Bob It wasn't meant to sound that mardy

I didn’t take it that way bud.