Chris Wilder's position as Sheffield United boss

[Carlton Blade]

Posted this in the other thread. Doesn’t sound good at all.

That's Wilder's way of getting news out. That reporter is his usual avenue

 

[gordoncharles]

Every single team in the top 8 of the PL has one. Same for every successful club in Europe

Make that "every club in Europe"

 

[McGrath]

It sounds to me like we're approaching the end of a brilliant era.

I wonder how people will feel watching Wilder and Knill managing another club to success. Particularly if it isn't going so well at the Lane?

 

[Carlton Blade]

It sounds to me like we're approaching the end of a brilliant era.

I wonder how people will feel watching Wilder and Knill managing another club to success. Particularly if it isn't going so well at the Lane?

Disappointed that the owner and Wilder couldn't resolve their differences I imagine.

I dont think either side will be anywhere near as good without the other

 

[The Crab]

It sounds to me like we're approaching the end of a brilliant era.

I wonder how people will feel watching Wilder and Knill managing another club to success. Particularly if it isn't going so well at the Lane?

It sounds that way eh?

I'll feel like I felt at the end of other eras like the Bassett and Warnock ones. End of the ride for them but not for us, we don't get to walk away us lifers.

We wait for the next era, hopefully not via League one again though.................

 

[Bashamed]

It sounds to me like we're approaching the end of a brilliant era.

I wonder how people will feel watching Wilder and Knill managing another club to success. Particularly if it isn't going so well at the Lane?

Going to massively struggle to care as much. I know there's arguments on recruitment being poor etc but I'll never forgive them for forcing him out. We sat and watched warnock win promotion after promotion while we fell apart after stupidly letting him leave. We'll do the same again here and be back to complete obscurity through our own stupidity.

 

[bartman]

When I meant agreeable I meant to selling him for what amounted to an amount the board were unwilling to pay. The fee was high in terms of his contract expiring but in terms of our signings and Wilder’s knowledge of what was wrong with O’Connell no wonder he wasn’t happy about it to say the least.

So you are saying that Wilder wanted the board to offer a fee more than what he thought the player was worth. Something which Wilder said he would never do.
Care to elaborate what fee was was offered to Preston for Davies ?.

 

[bromtom]

What clubs haven't got a DoF though? If he goes and gets another job, is a stipulation of him signing going to be "sack your recruitment team" because if they have a look at our recruitment, they're not going to bother.

It's an old way of doing things, and it's worked for Wilder most of the time, but he's not going to get other Premier League jobs if he leaves us if he's not willing to work with a DoF structure.

He's brought it on himself with our shite recruitment this season, and our so-so recruitment last season, so hopefully he doesn't chuck the baby out with the bathwater and they can compromise. What I'd like is a transfer team that either Wilder can give targets to and the sort it out, or Wilder can give a 'type' to and they bring back a load of CVs from other places than the Championship, but would that offend him too?

 

[Smirth]

Can't help but think Wilder is making a massive mistake here. If he wants to establish himself as a Premier League manager then he needs to accept the model which the Prince wants to bring in. The vast majority of clubs at this level have a sporting director, director of football or similar so he better get used to it.

 

[alcoblade]

He's brought it on himself with our shite recruitment this season, and our so-so recruitment last season, so hopefully he doesn't chuck the baby out with the bathwater and they can compromise. What I'd like is a transfer team that either Wilder can give targets to and the sort it out, or Wilder can give a 'type' to and they bring back a load of CVs from other places than the Championship, but would that offend him too?

He isn't blameless, but he identified plenty of players who're doing well in the premier league now. We wouldn't pay the wages, so opted for youth / potential.

That policy isn't Wilder's.

 

[gordoncharles]

He isn't blameless, but he identified plenty of players who're doing well in the premier league now. We wouldn't pay the wages, so opted for youth / potential.

That policy isn't Wilder's.

We can all identify players we can't afford. The key was knowing who was out there, and it was a big wide world before last Christmas.

And I've never heard anything about us getting outbid by, say, Burnley?

 

[Addison]

Anything the Daily Fail prints about SUFC has an element of exaggeration, Fat Boy Samuels and the McCabe PR machine post court judgement spring to mind.

From the Athletics considered article yesterday that a DOF recruitment type model was being proposed we have moved to a Director of Football having total control over CW. I doubt the latter is the case in fact the Prince himself has said recruitment needs to be looked at not the whole of the Managers role.

Its obvious there have been problems since the turn of the year. CW's own demeanour is there for all to see as his language has become ever more defensive. From a position of strength last season CW's hand is now weakened with how the season has gone. Unfortunately he seems to have gone on the offensive off the pitch when IMO it would have been better to have done this on it. A good run to the end of the season all guns blazing will give the Board pause for thought.

This has been a unique season that can not be compared to others and it is wrong to measure performance as you would in normal circumstances. That includes both CW and the Prince. Even without a pandemic we would have struggled as a Club to maintain our EPL status without significant investment and an overhaul of how we operate off the pitch.

Whilst revenue has been seriously affected the Prince needs to keep his side of the bargain and ensure the work at the Academy starts before the season ends and commits to keeping players unless silly offers come in for them. That statement alone may take some of the heat out of the situation. He also has to find investment for the benefit of SUFC alone in the short term. Whilst United World may be a long term project his SUFC asset will depreciate considerably the longer we remain in the Championship. Sustainability is as much about investment and increased revenue streams as is living within your own means. It is understandable that the Board may be unhappy that this is being played out in the public domain but they are dealing with an individual who wears his heart on his sleeve and does care passionately about the Club.

CW for his part has to accept that incremental change he's previously referred to season on season should include an overhaul of the recruitment process. If that means the model involves some of his decision making being taken on by someone else then if it benefits the Club and provides an opportunity for his star to rise again then he should embrace this.

As the quote says owners and managers are passing custodians no-one is bigger than the Club.

 

[alcoblade]

We can all identify players we can't afford. The key was knowing who was out there, and it was a big wide world before last Christmas.

And I've never heard anything about us getting outbid by, say, Burnley?

Ah yes, Burnley. The one club / manager used every time.

That's because they've now stuck, and fair play to them. They've also previously yoyoed, and stabilised, and not come from the bottom end of the third division in a few years.

And for every Burnley, there are 20 others who've fallen away and are forgot about.

 

[Bobby b]

the article points to the signings he wanted, which to me seems a little immaterial, if in January wilder said he wanted messi, Ronaldo and kane does that make him right and the prince wrong, the players mentioned Robinson, Watkins etc were never going to sign for us because the transfer fees were too much, and more importantly we could never compete with other clubs on wages, Wilders net only seems to cover the uk which means the failure to sign quality more likely on financial terms, I think the transfer policy needs widen that net internationally that's where the bargains are

 

[Badger Blade]

Wilder, based on this season isn't in a position to be making demands about recruitment to anybody because in case he's forgotten, he's spent £100m+ and we're bottom of the league.

While his stock might still be high among many of our supporters, his image to those on the outside will be one of steering what was a good side last year off a cliff and will present a risk to anyone appointing him in his next job, whenever and wherever that is. He's got to adapt his approach if he wants to stay in the game as a manager at the highest level, otherwise he might end up in a few years time having to go and work in League One again if that's the level where he can basically do as he pleases where decisions don't get scrutinised by all and sundry or have such big price tags attached like they do in the Premier League.

The likes of Watkins, Cash, Davies, Maupay last year and others don't require an extensive amount of scouting knowledge - pretty much all of these were identified by posters on here. Our scouting resource is currently nothing more than a Sky Sports subscription

 

[alcoblade]

the article points to the signings he wanted, which to me seems a little immaterial, if in January wilder said he wanted messi, Ronaldo and kane does that make him right and the prince wrong, the players mentioned Robinson, Watkins etc were never going to sign for us because the transfer fees were too much, and more importantly we could never compete with other clubs on wages, Wilders net only seems to cover the uk which means the failure to sign quality more likely on financial terms, I think the transfer policy needs widen that net internationally that's where the bargains are

We've got Mouset and Berge - both expensive foreign failures. We had three others last season who were shite.

Whilst I accept that our scouting network is too narrow, it's a myth that we haven't looked at foreigners.

The players identified last season weren't Messi and Kane, the were the best of England's second division, and we couldn't afford them. In the end, that's the problem.

I am critical of Wilder's part of the transfer failings this / last season, but there needs to be some context.

 

[McGrath]

Disappointed that the owner and Wilder couldn't resolve their differences I imagine.

I dont think either side will be anywhere near as good without the other

I dunno, pre Sheffield United Wilder had been successful. This season will be his first relegation .

Imagine what he'd do with a better resourced Championship club.

I suspect with the Prince we'll end up with a model similar to Watfords. Some people will love that, although it's not my cup of tea.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I dunno, pre Sheffield United Wilder had been successful. This season will be his first relegation .

Imagine what he'd do with a better resourced Championship club.

I suspect with the Prince we'll end up with a model similar to Watfords. Some people will love that, although it's not my cup of tea.

But it's unlikely he'll ever get full authority like he's had here at any club with a bigger budget than United.

 

[McGrath]

Going to massively struggle to care as much. I know there's arguments on recruitment being poor etc but I'll never forgive them for forcing him out. We sat and watched warnock win promotion after promotion while we fell apart after stupidly letting him leave. We'll do the same again here and be back to complete obscurity through our own stupidity.

I agree, I hope that what follows isn't soulless with detached owners and merry go-round of managers from abroad who aren't ever around long enough to make a stamp. With a transfer policy of developing young kids from abroad who we all know will be treating us as a stepping stone and will be sold as soon as they get good.

 

[McGrath]

But it's unlikely he'll ever get full authority like he's had here at any club with a bigger budget than United.

I don't think you can make that assumption.

I would imagine Wilder will have no shortage of clubs after him, and he can stipulate the conditions

 

[Darthblade]

This discussion will rumble on, no doubt, hopefully without divisions forming and animosity prevailing

The reality is that we are a top end Championship side, promoted a little too early for our squad development to catch up. We overachieved last season and this season a "perfect storm" of factors have contributed to our relegation.

We are unable to compete with any of the other Premiership Clubs, in terms of wages, simply because we have not got a mega wealthy owner. What is required is for the Prince to get another one of the family members interested and bring them on board (preferably a very wealthy one).

Until that point, we will continue to be unable to compete with other Premiership Clubs on wages and therefore will lose out on players who are looking mainly for a big pay packet.

My personal view is that I would rather see us yo-yo for a few years but maintain a sustainable Club, rather than doing what many others have done and risk going bust by paying unsustainable wages and fees. The proviso for me is that we must be playing entertaining football and have players who give 100% for the fans and the Club.

UTB & FTP

 

[true99blade]

It’s alright saying “but every other club has a DoF”... firstly, whilst not even factual, it’s also being totally dismissive and disrespectful to the bloke who in essence saved us from who knows what. Not surprised he’s pissed off. I wonder if it’ll be the same people calling for his head who are the first to slag off the Prince once it all goes tits up and we’re back in League One.

 

[Smirth]

We've got Mouset and Berge - both expensive foreign failures. We had three others last season who were shite.

Whilst I accept that our scouting network is too narrow, it's a myth that we haven't looked at foreigners.

The players identified last season weren't Messi and Kane, the were the best of England's second division, and we couldn't afford them. In the end, that's the problem.

I am critical of Wilder's part of the transfer failings this / last season, but there needs to be some context.

We signed Mousset from Bournemouth so he was already well known in this country, and as a signing I would argue he has been more successful than McBurnie and Brewster who cost double his transfer fee. The 3 last season were loans and barely got any game time to prove their worth.

So we have barely utilised the foreign market. Berge who I agree with you has been underwhelming is perhaps the only player we've signed since promotion that we stand a good chance of recouping our investment on when we sell him so in that respect he has been far more successful than the other £20m British players we've signed in McBurnie, Ramsdale & Brewster.

I have sympathy with him on wages to a certain degree, but he's shown his bias towards recruiting British players which are costing us a lot of money and yielding little by way of returns. All that has happened is we've watched their value deteriorate.

 

[bromtom]

We've got Mouset and Berge - both expensive foreign failures. We had three others last season who were shite.

Whilst I accept that our scouting network is too narrow, it's a myth that we haven't looked at foreigners.

The players identified last season weren't Messi and Kane, the were the best of England's second division, and we couldn't afford them. In the end, that's the problem.

I am critical of Wilder's part of the transfer failings this / last season, but there needs to be some context.

I don't think Berge is a failure, I think maybe the players and system around him haven't quite meshed with him, but he's an excellent asset.

Moose was bought from Bournemouth so hardly stretched out scouts on that one, but yeah, think it's safe to say he's been a failure now. If he'd not been a sicknote all season and binned his Lambo etc then maybe you could argue against that, but he's done naff all this season.

Trying to think of last season's foreign signings, Zivkovic, got him, never played him, why did we get him? Verrips, same again, who else?

Besic is foreign, but he was alright.

 

[FMBlade1]

I agree with the Prince's model proposal but the timing seems weird. We're going down, and Wilder's way is the best way to get us back up?

If we go up then put the new model in.

 

[cooperblade]

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, CW is as good as we'll ever get for the 'coaching' part of that. Recruitment is harder, and has to be linked with coaching. If (and I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, nor should it be) CW's coaching methods rely on having tough, gritty players who are willing to graft, then it's no good having a separate DoF who bring in a bunch of fancy-Dan types. The DoF and coach have to be absolutely compatible in their fundamentals and ethos. That's easier said than done of course, and some clubs have had nightmares on that front.

We also know (or at least, I suspect) that CW is very stubborn, and he could be resistant to this approach, threatening to leave if that was the case. If it was a choice between 'good coach + average recruitment' and 'average coach + good recruitment', I think I'd prefer the former. I imagine that other people might disagree though.

Be fascinating to see where we go as a club over the next few years from a strategy point of view. We got lucky with the appointment of Wilder, it wasn't part of a grand plan. How do we now ensure that we build on that luck by having a plan that means changing manager doesn't mean a complete change of direction? Basically how do we do a Barnsley and not a weds?

 

[MobileBlade]

This discussion will rumble on, no doubt, hopefully without divisions forming and animosity prevailing

The reality is that we are a top end Championship side, promoted a little too early for our squad development to catch up. We overachieved last season and this season a "perfect storm" of factors have contributed to our relegation.

We are unable to compete with any of the other Premiership Clubs, in terms of wages, simply because we have not got a mega wealthy owner. What is required is for the Prince to get another one of the family members interested and bring them on board (preferably a very wealthy one).

Until that point, we will continue to be unable to compete with other Premiership Clubs on wages and therefore will lose out on players who are looking mainly for a big pay packet.

My personal view is that I would rather see us yo-yo for a few years but maintain a sustainable Club, rather than doing what many others have done and risk going bust by paying unsustainable wages and fees. The proviso for me is that we must be playing entertaining football and have players who give 100% for the fans and the Club.

UTB & FTP

Which other clubs in the Premier League have wealthy owners that are providing funding for their clubs at the current time.? I do state Premier League clubs, not clubs who were in the Championship where their owners provided funds to get them promoted. I do mean owners that are funding clubs at the current time.

 

[FriethBlade]

Yes he wanted him in close season to which both club and player were amenable, the board wouldn’t stump up the fee. In between start of season and jan the ship had sailed (fact) and he was not happy.

What was Jack Robinson signed for if it wasnt cover for JOC ? Pointless signing cover if when its needed u decide it's not good enough

Can't help but think Wilder is making a massive mistake here. If he wants to establish himself as a Premier League manager then he needs to accept the model which the Prince wants to bring in. The vast majority of clubs at this level have a sporting director, director of football or similar so he better get used to it.

True Smirth and theres a reason DoF is popular....it enables continuity and a club ethos to be established with players signed to fit into that ethos.

The alternative is every time the manager changes u have to have a massive clear out (or u r left with players on the wage bill the new manager doesn't want)and the new manager brings his 'own' players in. In the old days that didn't matter so much as fees and wages were much lower nowadays it's the road to ruin.

 

[dc_blade]

Director of football decides an Armenian version of Adam Reach is what we need. There you go Chris get us into Europe

Yep, wouldn’t it be terrible if we signed the next Henrikh Mkhitaryan?

 

[Carlton Blade]

I don't think you can make that assumption.

I would imagine Wilder will have no shortage of clubs after him, and he can stipulate the conditions

We'll just have to disagree. Big budgets = DoF