Chris Wilder anyone????

[1danewhitehouse]

i keep swinging from keep Adkins to sack Adkins dependent upon my mood.. but there is one consistent opinion. NONE of the players out of contract should be retained. i'd keep billy, beard, done and che. .the rest can do one. if Adkins retains Hammond, Sammon or Woolford for next season, then he'd better be top with ten points clear by the end of November or the fans will lynch him. you have been warned Nigel

Disagree about Long. I think it would be foolish to release him.

 

[The Crab]

Appointing the wrong managers is really why we are where we are.

I'd largely agree with that, but sometimes it's a bit of a punt isn't it? Adkins was probably my 2nd choice (I'd have liked Warburton but once Rangers came on the scene we were buggered). I also thought at the time of his appointment, Weir was an interesting left-field appointment, and that quickly turned into a proper car crash.

 

[The Crab]

Yesterday's balcony antics at Cheltenham prove that Wilder has lost the dressing room so not for us

Yesterdays balcony antics proved to me what I've thought for a long time, that a lot of utter bellends play football!

 

[BushBlade]

I'd largely agree with that, but sometimes it's a bit of a punt isn't it? Adkins was probably my 2nd choice (I'd have liked Warburton but once Rangers came on the scene we were buggered). I also thought at the time of his appointment, Weir was an interesting left-field appointment, and that quickly turned into a proper car crash.

It's always a punt as even good managers fail at shit clubs, sometimes even at good clubs. I never thought SOD would be so poor at Walsall. All you can do is try to minimise the risk by getting someone with a good track record.

I think we're far too difficult a club to manage for a novice. Something like fifty percent of first time managers get sacked and don't get another managerial job. So by going for a Weir type, they're as likely to fail as they are to succeed, just statistically, never mind the added problems of being at a club like ours rather than a smaller club with less desperation to get promoted.

 

[The Crab]

It's always a punt as even good managers fail at shit clubs, sometimes even at good clubs. I never thought SOD would be so poor at Walsall. All you can do is try to minimise the risk by getting someone with a good track record.

I think we're far too difficult a club to manage for a novice. Something like fifty percent of first time managers get sacked and don't get another managerial job. So by going for a Weir type, they're as likely to fail as they are to succeed, just statistically, never mind the added problems of being at a club like ours rather than a smaller club with less desperation to get promoted.

Hypothetically, do you think Weir might have worked better under a Director of Football model? You're right about S.O.D, at one time I'd have liked to have had him here, but he seems to be heading for busted flush territory.

 

[Rodders]

Appointing the wrong managers is really why we are where we are.

Agree to some extent; I think the problem is more that we keep sacking them at absurd points in the season / their tenure. Constantly reinventing the "ethos" (one for you there alcoblade) and new blokes having to work with not their players and an ever-decreasing pot for new ones is why we're in this mess IMO. This club really should take 2 years max to get out of this league; the problem is we don't let a bloke have long enough to see it through.

 

[BushBlade]

Hypothetically, do you think Weir might have worked better under a Director of Football model? You're right about S.O.D, at one time I'd have liked to have had him here, but he seems to be heading for busted flush territory.

No, I think Weir lacks the personality to be a manager.

But I do think that if you get a good DoF it makes the manager's job easier and gives any manager a better chance of success. Similarly, if you have a bad DoF, like Villa for example, then it can make the manager's job almost impossible.

For me, it's not about job titles, it's about having quality leadership at the top of the club, whether that's an owner, a CEO or a DoF. Like any business really.

 

[The Crab]

No, I think Weir lacks the personality to be a manager.

But I do think that if you get a good DoF it makes the manager's job easier and gives any manager a better chance of success. Similarly, if you have a bad DoF, like Villa for example, then it can make the manager's job almost impossible.

For me, it's not about job titles, it's about having quality leadership at the top of the club, whether that's an owner, a CEO or a DoF. Like any business really.

It seems to me that Football has evolved from what it was back in the day. Things like contracts (as one example) can be so complicated now that it needs a real financial whizz (how many managers can claim to be one of these?) to get your head around it.

As you say, like it or not, football is more like a business these days in terms of the finances and associated terminology involved. Somewhere in the chain of command you have to have people that understand this and "speak the lingo". It has to be the right people though, or you end up a basket case as Villa are turning into.

 

[longinthe toothblade]

Adkins has a decent record

Yes..............."The Four Tops, Greatest Hits"

 

[longinthe toothblade]

I believe that he has already made plans on signing some players for this summer, wouldnt surprise me if some have signed the pre-contracts. If this is true, it would be pointless in bringing a new manager in and he might not want the players that have already agreed to come to us

And you base that on what exactly?

 

[BushBlade]

It seems to me that Football has evolved from what it was back in the day. Things like contracts (as one example) can be so complicated now that it needs a real financial whizz (how many managers can claim to be one of these?) to get your head around it.

As you say, like it or not, football is more like a business these days in terms of the finances and associated terminology involved. Somewhere in the chain of command you have to have people that understand this and "speak the lingo". It has to be the right people though, or you end up a basket case as Villa are turning into.

And immediately after reading this Tom Fox realised we were right and resigned from Villa.

 

[Silent Blade]

And you base that on what exactly?

Been told that more and more players have been signing on pro-contracts. Adkins said in an interview a few weeks ago that the club have already made plans on Summer recruitment but we will have to wait till the summer before the signings are revealed. More and more clubs (especially the PL clubs) are now planning from January

 

[longinthe toothblade]

Been told that more and more players have been signing on pro-contracts. Adkins said in an interview a few weeks ago that the club have already made plans on Summer recruitment but we will have to wait till the summer before the signings are revealed. More and more clubs (especially the PL clubs) are now planning from January

Interesting - let's see.

UTB

 

[Silent Blade]

Interesting - let's see.

UTB

Yes but I wonder if some has agreed to sign on condition that we are in the Championship division or dont mind which division we are in?

 

[longinthe toothblade]

if Adkins retains Hammond, Sammon or Woolford for next season, then he'd better be top with ten points clear by the end of November or the fans will lynch him

I think Hammond is a certainty to be retained by Adkins. If it's at the right price, I for one would accept him in a player / coach type of role.

Agree about Sammon and Woeford though. That said, I heard today that Adkins is saying that "Sammon still has a huge role to play between now and the end of the season" On what we've seen this season, home and away, work that one out

It's quotes like that from Adkins that make me nervous about his judgement.

 

[longinthe toothblade]

Yes but I wonder if some has agreed to sign on condition that we are in the Championship division or dont mind which division we are in?

Seems an obvious point and it's one of the reasons I'm still a bit dubious that players would 'sign up' in advance. It's not the PL is it and we're no Liverpool.

Anyways, let's see if you are right

 

[Silent Blade]

Seems an obvious point and it's one of the reasons I'm still a bit dubious that players would 'sign up' in advance. It's not the PL is it and we're no Liverpool.

Anyways, let's see if you are right

Since the introduction of transfer windows, clubs have been learning the mistakes they have been making in missing the transfer targets and now more clubs have been making plans from as early as January when they are allowed to approach players (whose contracts expire in the summer) without permission.

I maybe wrong but I think Adkins will be aiming to sign some players on year long loans.

Yes, let's see

 

[Sean Thornton]

Since the introduction of transfer windows, clubs have been learning the mistakes they have been making in missing the transfer targets and now more clubs have been making plans from as early as January when they are allowed to approach players (whose contracts expire in the summer) without permission.

I maybe wrong but I think Adkins will be aiming to sign some players on year long loans.

Yes, let's see

Financially season long loans make sense rather than committing to 2,3 or 4 year contracts throughout the side.

 

[Silent Blade]

Financially season long loans make sense rather than committing to 2,3 or 4 year contracts throughout the side.

Brannigan and Clough went for the latter and it didnt get us promotion and it has given us problems for Adkins to sort out

 

[BushBlade]

Brannigan and Clough went for the latter and it didnt get us promotion and it has given us problems for Adkins to sort out

Because they made poor signings. Alternatively, if we'd have signed young players with potential and improved them, we'd have several players worth millions. If we loan players, unless we get promoted, it will be a waste of money. It's like renting a house instead of buying.

 

[Enigmatic]

Because they made poor signings. Alternatively, if we'd have signed young players with potential and improved them, we'd have several players worth millions. If we loan players, unless we get promoted, it will be a waste of money. It's like renting a house instead of buying.

To an extent, but it does mean we would have access to otherwise unavailable players of greater quality, particularly Premier League youngsters. Look at Adam Armstrong at Coventry, for example, and our loan of Conor Coady. Bigger clubs are also often happy to contribute towards their wages to ensure they can get regular first team football.

I'm not saying we should build a team of loanees, but a couple could benefit us.

 

[Silent Blade]

Because they made poor signings. Alternatively, if we'd have signed young players with potential and improved them, we'd have several players worth millions. If we loan players, unless we get promoted, it will be a waste of money. It's like renting a house instead of buying.

Agree, since the introduction of the transfer window we seem to have been making the wrong choices when it comes to deciding on whether to sign players on loan or signing them permanently.

 

[Silent Blade]

To an extent, but it does mean we would have access to otherwise unavailable players of greater quality, particularly Premier League youngsters. Look at Adam Armstrong at Coventry, for example, and our loan of Conor Coady. Bigger clubs are also often happy to contribute towards their wages to ensure they can get regular first team football.

I'm not saying we should build a team of loanees, but a couple could benefit us.

Some were poor loan signings such as Cofie etc

 

[BushBlade]

To an extent, but it does mean we would have access to otherwise unavailable players of greater quality, particularly Premier League youngsters. Look at Adam Armstrong at Coventry, for example, and our loan of Conor Coady. Bigger clubs are also often happy to contribute towards their wages to ensure they can get regular first team football.

I'm not saying we should build a team of loanees, but a couple could benefit us.

Agree, since the introduction of the transfer window we seem to have been making the wrong choices when it comes to deciding on whether to sign players on loan or signing them permanently.

Agree with both of those points. I'm not dead against loans but we have to get the balance right. And it has to be players better than we'd be able to attract on permanents.

 

[Enigmatic]

Some were poor loan signings such as Cofie etc

Very true. I suppose that's where good scouting comes in. Hopefully our new guy from Scunthorpe has an eye for a good player.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

To an extent, but it does mean we would have access to otherwise unavailable players of greater quality, particularly Premier League youngsters. Look at Adam Armstrong at Coventry, for example, and our loan of Conor Coady. Bigger clubs are also often happy to contribute towards their wages to ensure they can get regular first team football.

I'm not saying we should build a team of loanees, but a couple could benefit us.

I think the trick is finding that 1 or 2 matchwinners of a higher quality. You need a strong core of permanent players but the pigs utilised Marshal and Antonio to make the difference. We did it with Matt Phillips (just not long enough) and Conor Coady. As you say, Coventry with Armstrong is another example. Build a solid team and add a loan player or two who can give you that spark to win the close games.

 

[William Large]

Which I am afraid says everything about us.

Just re read some of the pre wilder opinions. It goes to show that for the most part, we as fans don't actually know as much as we think.
Quite often it's just, right man at the right club at the right time and there are no guarantees. Even the most optimistic of blade could not have predicted the season we have had.

 

[metalblade]

Glad I stayed well away from this old thread